Rohrbach Flying Away

[SoldierGriz]

Every single person attending the Academies meets the standard. 100 % of them. There is no exception for athletes. None. If there is a recruited athlete who does not meet the standard, they may be offered an opportunity to attend the prep schools to elevate them to the standard. This happens often across all of the academies.

“ We see that the Football athletes separate at 29% vs the general population’s 22%. (29-22)/22 = 32% higher separations than non-athlete cadets. Football athletes score on average 125 points, or .64 StDev, less than non-athlete cadets. This is not to pick just on football players, but as the most highly promoted sport at Army (and which displaces the most other qualified candidates from admissions), it’s an obvious area to question. Other sports in the lower end of the aptitude curves show the same types of patterns.

We further note that the racial test score discrepancy persists even for a single sport. Athletes in football are disproportionately Black and have the lowest scores.

The 910 score shown is somewhere in the 30-35th percentile or so of all SAT-takers. Even the White cadets average a 950, which is still sub-40th percentile. And once again these are averages. They are not floors. The lowest Football score that graduated is 810. This is somewhere around the 12th-15th percentile (reading the chart) nationally.

How does someone like that graduate? “Standards”? Recall from the separation rates above that preferred minority athletes separate at significantly lower rates than preferred-minority non-athletes (excluding Asians). One of LTC Heffington’s charges was that academic standards were relaxed for athletes. This bears that out.”

Every single person attending the academies meets the standard. The majority score well above said standard...but every single person - athlete included - meets the standard. There are zero exceptions to this.

You are trying to hard to be good at something here. I have real-time knowledge of this, and you do not.

 

[mthoopsfan]

"Dwight S. Mears is an assistant professor of history at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point

West Point admission standards are already relaxed for recruited athletes. Sixty-one percent of West Point’s current football playersmatriculated through the U.S. Military Academy Preparatory School, where academic risk thresholds are significantly lower than for standard academy admissions, and virtually everyone who completes the coursework enters the academy.

Internal studies conducted in the past decade show that, once at West Point, recruited football players are more than twice as likely to fail courses, more likely to leave the Army early and less likely to be promoted to higher ranks in the Army compared with their non-recruited counterparts. There are exceptions, of course, and I have taught some outstanding football players. Yet the aggregate numbers demonstrate that loosening academic standards runs counter to the academy’s mission to prepare each graduate “for a career of professional excellence and service to the Nation as an officer in the United States Army.”

I think this was in the WaPost.

 

[mthoopsfan]

"Recruited athletes at U.S. military academies have lower admissions scores, get lower grades on campus, and are less likely to graduate than the class as a whole,, according to a report issued yesterday by the General Accounting Office, the investigative wing of the US Government."

"But there's a back door, and it's open wide for athletes. If you can throw a football or dunk a basketball, are at least 17, unmarried with no dependents, you're on track to become a cadet candidate at Air Force Academy Preparatory School. The school provides about a fifth of cadets entering the academy and a big share of its top athletes, including 17 of the school's 
22 varsity basketball players this year and 69 of 189 football players."

"It and similar cram schools at Army and Navy are unique, taxpayer-funded programs that give applicants an extra year after high school to meet academic muster to get into the respective academies. Prep schoolers are paid, get free tuition and train with coaches in the intricacies of academy sports. Each is packed with athletes.

"It's a football factory," said a former Air Force Academy enlisted leader who asked to remain anonymous out of fear of retribution.

A Gazette investigation of the Air Force prep school revealed:

- The 240-student school houses nearly 150 athletes, including a 53-member football squad and 
29 team managers, even as academy leaders claim the prep school is about leadership rather than sports.

- Prep school admissions lack clear standards, and prep school athletes have entered the cadet wing despite grades that don't meet academy standards. Additionally, the academy doesn't use criminal background checks to screen would-be cadets.

https://gazette.com/sports/gazette-exclusive-military-academies-including-afa-face-criticism-for-using-prep-schools-to-fill-athletic/article_51a77764-f427-5155-92b0-30a1d5afc04b.amp.html

 

[mthoopsfan]

I said transfer as shorthand. I didn't think it was necessary to the explain the process. Also, it really would be a type of "transfer", i.e. leaving one school and enrolling at another. If this had been a desire or possibility of the punter, he would first talk with the AFA football coaches. He would not first go to the Congressional delegation. The coaches would then evaluate and explain what had to be done. College students or students with college credits can apply to the academies. They would start as plebes/frosh and subject to the starting age restriction, which I believe is 23. A college student would need the grades and other qualifications for AFA. Generally, athletes have slightly lower standards for admission at academies. I believe West Point currently has the lowest athlete admissions of the academies. The coach and the academy would work out the appointment aspect. As has already been pointed out, appointments don't come just from Congressional delegations. There are multiple avenues. NCAA rules apply, with some exceptions. Since there are no athletic scholarships at academies (everyone is on "scholarship"), there are generally no ncaa restrictions on the number of recruits. There's a limitation on the number of official visits, I believe, but the schools determine the number of players they want as recruits. The annual recruit numbers are very high, like 75 or even more. I have been involved or around the admission of various relatives to academies. One nephew, who graduated last spring from West Point, was a manager of the football team. Another nephew graduated from Air Force recently and played football all 4 years, including as a starter. I attended games at both West Point and Air Force. I was at graduation at West Point last spring. A good friend of mine is a former coach at AFA. My stock broker is a former AFA player. I know the AD at Dartmouth, who came from West Point as an assistant AD, and have talked to him about football and athletics at West Point. I've talked to 2 people in the MT delegation (both good friends of mine) about nominations, as well as to their staff. Ya, I don't know anything about the academies, admission, athletics, football. People do "transfer" to the academies to play sports. My stock broker buddy played with a guy who came from playing football at Missouri. My buddy says its happens from time to time. Had the punter wanted to go to AFA, and the coach wanted him, and he was qualified and jumped through the hoops, he could have done that. P.S. My buddy just called me back to say that he knows the AFA coach and believes going to the Academy would be a better way to become a flier in the Air Force. I see that the AFA punter averaged 37.65 last year.

Every single person attending the Academies meets the standard. 100 % of them. There is no exception for athletes. None. If there is a recruited athlete who does not meet the standard, they may be offered an opportunity to attend the prep schools to elevate them to the standard. This happens often across all of the academies.

Oh, BS. You are completely wrong. The standards are very different. For example, a huge percentage of the athletes are admitted from the Prep School. The Prep School doesn't have the same standards as Academy, and certainly doesn't have the grades standard. So, less qualified recruits go to the Prep School (if they were qualified academically, they would start at the Academy), do school and sports for a year, and then get admitted from the Prep School (without needing the regular admission standards). That is the backdoor around the higher academy standards, and that is what is used for many athletes.

Look at the SAT scores, in the above posts, for football players. 910? That is incredibly low. "Students that get into United States Air Force Academy have an SAT score between 1230–1440 or an ACT score of 28–33." There's a big difference between 910 and 1230-1440.

Look at what the professors from the academies are saying in their letters. They said that the academies don't enforce their admissions standards for athletes, especially football and basketball players.

I have been directly and recently involved with trying to get athletes admitted to the Academies for sports, know former players currently involved with trying to help athletes get admitted, and have a good friend who is a former assistant coach. I also know what my nephews, who graduated recently and were both associated with the football teams, told me.

 

[SoldierGriz]

Every single person attending the Academies meets the standard. 100 % of them. There is no exception for athletes. None. If there is a recruited athlete who does not meet the standard, they may be offered an opportunity to attend the prep schools to elevate them to the standard. This happens often across all of the academies.

Oh, BS. You are completely wrong. The standards are very different. For example, a huge percentage of the athletes are admitted from the Prep School. The Prep School doesn't have the same standards as Academy, and certainly doesn't have the grades standard. So, less qualified recruits go to the Prep School (if they were qualified academically, they would start at the Academy), do school and sports for a year, and then get admitted from the Prep School (without needing the regular admission standards). That is the backdoor around the higher academy standards, and that is what is used for many athletes.

Look at the SAT scores, in the above posts, for football players. 910? That is incredibly low. "Students that get into United States Air Force Academy have an SAT score between 1230–1440 or an ACT score of 28–33." There's a big difference between 910 and 1230-1440.

Look at what the professors from the academies are saying in their letters. They said that the academies don't enforce their admissions standards for athletes, especially football and basketball players.

I have been directly and recently involved with trying to get athletes admitted to the Academies for sports, know former players currently involved with trying to help athletes get admitted, and have a good friend who is a former assistant coach. I also know what my nephews, who graduated recently and were both associated with the football teams, told me.

Good Lord, dummy. The prep school IS NOT the academy. I've already described what the prep school is designed for. It is not exclusively for athletes. Every year the services sends enlisted service members from the field to the prep schools. They simply need enhanced skills to succeed in the Academies. Move on - you are in well over your head here.

I am on the West Point Admissions advisory panel today. So stop, just stop.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Oh, BS. You are completely wrong. The standards are very different. For example, a huge percentage of the athletes are admitted from the Prep School. The Prep School doesn't have the same standards as Academy, and certainly doesn't have the grades standard. So, less qualified recruits go to the Prep School (if they were qualified academically, they would start at the Academy), do school and sports for a year, and then get admitted from the Prep School (without needing the regular admission standards). That is the backdoor around the higher academy standards, and that is what is used for many athletes.

Look at the SAT scores, in the above posts, for football players. 910? That is incredibly low. "Students that get into United States Air Force Academy have an SAT score between 1230–1440 or an ACT score of 28–33." There's a big difference between 910 and 1230-1440.

Look at what the professors from the academies are saying in their letters. They said that the academies don't enforce their admissions standards for athletes, especially football and basketball players.

I have been directly and recently involved with trying to get athletes admitted to the Academies for sports, know former players currently involved with trying to help athletes get admitted, and have a good friend who is a former assistant coach. I also know what my nephews, who graduated recently and were both associated with the football teams, told me.

Good Lord, dummy. The prep school IS NOT the academy. I've already described what the prep school is designed for. It is not exclusively for athletes. Every year the services sends enlisted service members from the field to the prep schools. They simply need enhanced skills to succeed in the Academies. Move on - you are in well over your head here.

I am on the West Point Admissions advisory panel today. So stop, just stop.

You don’t know what you are talking about. I am talking athletes, not general-regular West Point admitted. Your advisory panel has little or nothing to do with athletics admissions. Jeez, talk to a former player or two. Or current or former coach or two? Or to a current recruited athletic or two. Also, tell me what you know about Air Force football admissions.

The prep schools are how the academies sneak in many of the athletes.

An advisory committee. What a joke.

You know less about academy athlete admissions
than you do about Griz admissions.

 

[SoldierGriz]

Good Lord, dummy. The prep school IS NOT the academy. I've already described what the prep school is designed for. It is not exclusively for athletes. Every year the services sends enlisted service members from the field to the prep schools. They simply need enhanced skills to succeed in the Academies. Move on - you are in well over your head here.

I am on the West Point Admissions advisory panel today. So stop, just stop.

You don’t know what you are talking about. I am talking athletes, not general-regular West Point admitted. Your advisory panel has little or nothing to do with athletics admissions. Jeez, talk to a former player or two. Or current or former coach or two? Or to a current recruited athletic or two. Also, tell me what you know about Air Force football admissions.

The prep schools are how the academies sneak in many of the athletes.

An advisory committee. What a joke.

You know less about academy athlete admissions
than you do about Griz admissions.

Keep digging. Starting to think you are Growler. You are well out of your league here. The Academies do not "sneak" anyone in. All those admitted meet the standard. Period.

 

[AZGrizFan]

You don’t know what you are talking about. I am talking athletes, not general-regular West Point admitted. Your advisory panel has little or nothing to do with athletics admissions. Jeez, talk to a former player or two. Or current or former coach or two? Or to a current recruited athletic or two. Also, tell me what you know about Air Force football admissions.

The prep schools are how the academies sneak in many of the athletes.

An advisory committee. What a joke.

You know less about academy athlete admissions
than you do about Griz admissions.

Keep digging. Starting to think you are Growler. You are well out of your league here. The Academies do not "sneak" anyone in. All those admitted meet the standard. Period.

You’re talking to the expert, Soldier. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[mthoopsfan]

Keep digging. Starting to think you are Growler. You are well out of your league here. The Academies do not "sneak" anyone in. All those admitted meet the standard. Period.

You’re talking to the expert, Soldier. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I am right on this one. I have lots of info and sources. Look at some of the articles I posted. While it's not only the prep schools, the prep schools are the main back door. By definition, those in the prep schools are not academically qualified for regular admission. Some then get an opportunity for the prep school route. The bulk of the prep school people are athletes and minorities. If they do well in prep school, which is military, physical and academic, 75-80% of them are accepted the next year. They just have to meet the prep school standards. Don't need to meet the regular admission standards, or SAT/ACT scores, to my knowledge. Don't need an appointment. The prep schools are small, but furnish about 1/5 of the annual admissions to the academies. Half of the football team, and more of the basketball team, at at least one academy, I read. Half of the kids in the prep schools are minorities. I'm fine with all this, but football and certain other athletes are not admitted under the standards used in regular admissions. Professors have complained. See letters I posted above. Stats show this. Everyone involved with the programs knows this. I learned this from my academy friends, relatives who went to academies, and friends who work with the coaches to get athletes into the academies.

 

[SoldierGriz]

You’re talking to the expert, Soldier. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I am right on this one. I have lots of info and sources. Look at some of the articles I posted. While it's not only the prep schools, the prep schools are the main back door. By definition, those in the prep schools are not academically qualified for regular admission. Some then get an opportunity for the prep school route. The bulk of the prep school people are athletes and minorities. If they do well in prep school, which is military, physical and academic, 75-80% of them are accepted the next year. They just have to meet the prep school standards. Don't need to meet the regular admission standards, or SAT/ACT scores, to my knowledge. Don't need an appointment. The prep schools are small, but furnish about 1/5 of the annual admissions to the academies. Half of the football team, and more of the basketball team, at at least one academy, I read. Half of the kids in the prep schools are minorities. I'm fine with all this, but football and certain other athletes are not admitted under the standards used in regular admissions. Professors have complained. See letters I posted above. Stats show this. Everyone involved with the programs knows this. I learned this from my academy friends, relatives who went to academies, and friends who work with the coaches to get athletes into the academies.

Here you go again posting false information. Every person at the Academies meets the Academy standard. There is NO exception for those coming out of the Prep Schools. None.

The Prep schools are NOT a back-door. They aren't used to sneak anyone in. They have to get through the same admissions process everyone else goes through, secure a nomination etc.

Those attending the Prep Schools must elevate to the Academy standards or they WILL NOT get an appointment. They are at the prep school because the Academies believe they have the potential to do so.

 

[mthoopsfan]

I am right on this one. I have lots of info and sources. Look at some of the articles I posted. While it's not only the prep schools, the prep schools are the main back door. By definition, those in the prep schools are not academically qualified for regular admission. Some then get an opportunity for the prep school route. The bulk of the prep school people are athletes and minorities. If they do well in prep school, which is military, physical and academic, 75-80% of them are accepted the next year. They just have to meet the prep school standards. Don't need to meet the regular admission standards, or SAT/ACT scores, to my knowledge. Don't need an appointment. The prep schools are small, but furnish about 1/5 of the annual admissions to the academies. Half of the football team, and more of the basketball team, at at least one academy, I read. Half of the kids in the prep schools are minorities. I'm fine with all this, but football and certain other athletes are not admitted under the standards used in regular admissions. Professors have complained. See letters I posted above. Stats show this. Everyone involved with the programs knows this. I learned this from my academy friends, relatives who went to academies, and friends who work with the coaches to get athletes into the academies.

Here you go again posting false information. Every person at the Academies meets the Academy standard. There is NO exception for those coming out of the Prep Schools. None.

The Prep schools are NOT a back-door. They aren't used to sneak anyone in. They have to get through the same admissions process everyone else goes through, secure a nomination etc.

Those attending the Prep Schools must elevate to the Academy standards or they WILL NOT get an appointment. They are at the prep school because the Academies believe they have the potential to do so.

Not true. Those from the pre schools don't not go through the normal admissions process from there schools. They don't even need an appointment.

""Dwight S. Mears is an assistant professor of history at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point

West Point admission standards are already relaxed for recruited athletes. Sixty-one percent of West Point’s current football playersmatriculated through the U.S. Military Academy Preparatory School, where academic risk thresholds are significantly lower than for standard academy admissions, and virtually everyone who completes the coursework enters the academy."

""Recruited athletes at U.S. military academies have lower admissions scores, get lower grades on campus, and are less likely to graduate than the class as a whole,, according to a report issued yesterday by the General Accounting Office, the investigative wing of the US Government."

"But there's a back door, and it's open wide for athletes. If you can throw a football or dunk a basketball, are at least 17, unmarried with no dependents, you're on track to become a cadet candidate at Air Force Academy Preparatory School. The school provides about a fifth of cadets entering the academy and a big share of its top athletes, including 17 of the school's 
22 varsity basketball players this year and 69 of 189 football players."

A Gazette investigation of the Air Force prep school revealed:

- The 240-student school houses nearly 150 athletes, including a 53-member football squad and 
29 team managers, even as academy leaders claim the prep school is about leadership rather than sports.

- Prep school admissions lack clear standards, and prep school athletes have entered the cadet wing despite grades that don't meet academy standards. Additionally, the academy doesn't use criminal background checks to screen would-be cadets."

https://gazette.com/sports/gazette-excl ... b.amp.html

 

[SoldierGriz]

Here you go again posting false information. Every person at the Academies meets the Academy standard. There is NO exception for those coming out of the Prep Schools. None.

The Prep schools are NOT a back-door. They aren't used to sneak anyone in. They have to get through the same admissions process everyone else goes through, secure a nomination etc.

Those attending the Prep Schools must elevate to the Academy standards or they WILL NOT get an appointment. They are at the prep school because the Academies believe they have the potential to do so.

Not true. Those from the pre schools don't not go through the normal admissions process from there schools. They don't even need an appointment.

""Dwight S. Mears is an assistant professor of history at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point

West Point admission standards are already relaxed for recruited athletes. Sixty-one percent of West Point’s current football playersmatriculated through the U.S. Military Academy Preparatory School, where academic risk thresholds are significantly lower than for standard academy admissions, and virtually everyone who completes the coursework enters the academy."

""Recruited athletes at U.S. military academies have lower admissions scores, get lower grades on campus, and are less likely to graduate than the class as a whole,, according to a report issued yesterday by the General Accounting Office, the investigative wing of the US Government."

"But there's a back door, and it's open wide for athletes. If you can throw a football or dunk a basketball, are at least 17, unmarried with no dependents, you're on track to become a cadet candidate at Air Force Academy Preparatory School. The school provides about a fifth of cadets entering the academy and a big share of its top athletes, including 17 of the school's 
22 varsity basketball players this year and 69 of 189 football players."

A Gazette investigation of the Air Force prep school revealed:

- The 240-student school houses nearly 150 athletes, including a 53-member football squad and 
29 team managers, even as academy leaders claim the prep school is about leadership rather than sports.

- Prep school admissions lack clear standards, and prep school athletes have entered the cadet wing despite grades that don't meet academy standards. Additionally, the academy doesn't use criminal background checks to screen would-be cadets."

https://gazette.com/sports/gazette-excl ... b.amp.html

You are quoting crap from 2014, and that professor has been largely discredited over time. He is similar to some of the professors we all know and love in Missoula (they have no love for the athletic department). None of those things are true today.

...of course they need an appointment. Appointments are the official notifications of acceptance to the Academy and are offered by the Admissions Office. 100% of the candidates offered appointments must be full qualified and have a nomination.

Prepsters do indeed require a nomination to secure an appointment, just like every single other person attending. They also MUST meet the academic and physical requirements, just like every single other person attending. Their application package is exactly the same as every other candidate. Exactly the same.

"During the middle of the prep school year, Cadet Candidates must submit new applications to West Point, including the Congressional nomination. By June, Cadet Candidates will receive word of their application status and West Point acceptance."

From the Frequently asked Questions Page on the West Point Prep Website:

Q: How do I apply to attend USMAPS?
A: You do not directly apply to attend USMAPS. You must apply to USMA by completing a Pre-Candidate Questionnaire and by obtaining a nomination, normally from a United States Congressman or Senator. Your admission to USMAPS is determined as part of the USMA Admissions process. Go to the USMA Admission’s webpage for more information.

Q: If I attend USMAPS, am I automatically admitted to USMA at the end of the year?
No, you are not guaranteed admission to USMA. You must earn admission to USMA by completing all requirements prescribed by the USMA admission process.

You are giving eGriz really, really bad information. Not a good look PR.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Not true. Those from the pre schools don't not go through the normal admissions process from there schools. They don't even need an appointment.

""Dwight S. Mears is an assistant professor of history at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point

West Point admission standards are already relaxed for recruited athletes. Sixty-one percent of West Point’s current football playersmatriculated through the U.S. Military Academy Preparatory School, where academic risk thresholds are significantly lower than for standard academy admissions, and virtually everyone who completes the coursework enters the academy."

""Recruited athletes at U.S. military academies have lower admissions scores, get lower grades on campus, and are less likely to graduate than the class as a whole,, according to a report issued yesterday by the General Accounting Office, the investigative wing of the US Government."

"But there's a back door, and it's open wide for athletes. If you can throw a football or dunk a basketball, are at least 17, unmarried with no dependents, you're on track to become a cadet candidate at Air Force Academy Preparatory School. The school provides about a fifth of cadets entering the academy and a big share of its top athletes, including 17 of the school's 
22 varsity basketball players this year and 69 of 189 football players."

A Gazette investigation of the Air Force prep school revealed:

- The 240-student school houses nearly 150 athletes, including a 53-member football squad and 
29 team managers, even as academy leaders claim the prep school is about leadership rather than sports.

- Prep school admissions lack clear standards, and prep school athletes have entered the cadet wing despite grades that don't meet academy standards. Additionally, the academy doesn't use criminal background checks to screen would-be cadets."

https://gazette.com/sports/gazette-excl ... b.amp.html

You are quoting crap from 2014, and that professor has been largely discredited over time. He is similar to some of the professors we all know and love in Missoula (they have no love for the athletic department). None of those things are true today.

...of course they need an appointment. Appointments are the official notifications of acceptance to the Academy and are offered by the Admissions Office. 100% of the candidates offered appointments must be full qualified and have a nomination.

Prepsters do indeed require a nomination to secure an appointment, just like every single other person attending. They also MUST meet the academic and physical requirements, just like every single other person attending. Their application package is exactly the same as every other candidate. Exactly the same.

"During the middle of the prep school year, Cadet Candidates must submit new applications to West Point, including the Congressional nomination. By June, Cadet Candidates will receive word of their application status and West Point acceptance."

From the Frequently asked Questions Page on the West Point Prep Website:

Q: How do I apply to attend USMAPS?
A: You do not directly apply to attend USMAPS. You must apply to USMA by completing a Pre-Candidate Questionnaire and by obtaining a nomination, normally from a United States Congressman or Senator. Your admission to USMAPS is determined as part of the USMA Admissions process. Go to the USMA Admission’s webpage for more information.

Q: If I attend USMAPS, am I automatically admitted to USMA at the end of the year?
No, you are not guaranteed admission to USMA. You must earn admission to USMA by completing all requirements prescribed by the USMA admission process.

You are giving eGriz really, really bad information. Not a good look PR.

The prep school "nomination" is from the commanding officer, not under the regular nomination program/process. In the Navy, the prep school nomination comes from SecNav. "For Navy, the Commanding Officer is not a Nominating Source. The actual nomination source is SecNav. The CO merely provides an endorsement to the application for Nomination, but USNA can charge up to 170 active or reserve sailors and marines to the SecNav category."

From an older Government Accounting Office report, which surveyed the vast majority of studies at 3 academies:

"Over 80 percent of students who were not recruited as athletes responded that recruited athletes
receive preferential treatment during the admissions process."

 

[SoldierGriz]

You are quoting crap from 2014, and that professor has been largely discredited over time. He is similar to some of the professors we all know and love in Missoula (they have no love for the athletic department). None of those things are true today.

...of course they need an appointment. Appointments are the official notifications of acceptance to the Academy and are offered by the Admissions Office. 100% of the candidates offered appointments must be full qualified and have a nomination.

Prepsters do indeed require a nomination to secure an appointment, just like every single other person attending. They also MUST meet the academic and physical requirements, just like every single other person attending. Their application package is exactly the same as every other candidate. Exactly the same.

"During the middle of the prep school year, Cadet Candidates must submit new applications to West Point, including the Congressional nomination. By June, Cadet Candidates will receive word of their application status and West Point acceptance."

From the Frequently asked Questions Page on the West Point Prep Website:

Q: How do I apply to attend USMAPS?
A: You do not directly apply to attend USMAPS. You must apply to USMA by completing a Pre-Candidate Questionnaire and by obtaining a nomination, normally from a United States Congressman or Senator. Your admission to USMAPS is determined as part of the USMA Admissions process. Go to the USMA Admission’s webpage for more information.

Q: If I attend USMAPS, am I automatically admitted to USMA at the end of the year?
No, you are not guaranteed admission to USMA. You must earn admission to USMA by completing all requirements prescribed by the USMA admission process.

You are giving eGriz really, really bad information. Not a good look PR.

The prep school "nomination" is from the commanding officer, not under the regular nomination program/process. In the Navy, the prep school nomination comes from SecNav. "For Navy, the Commanding Officer is not a Nominating Source. The actual nomination source is SecNav. The CO merely provides an endorsement to the application for Nomination, but USNA can charge up to 170 active or reserve sailors and marines to the SecNav category."

From an older Government Accounting Office report, which surveyed the vast majority of studies at 3 academies:

"Over 80 percent of students who were not recruited as athletes responded that recruited athletes
receive preferential treatment during the admissions process."

No. The commanding officer of the Prep School absolutely does NOT have nomination authority. No. Just no.

I will close with this...if any poster wants current, accurate information on the process to get into our Academies...DM me.

PATRICK ROHRBACH...kick ass. FLY, FIGHT WIN.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Air Force has, or had, a d-back transfer from Stanford (yes, he had to start over).

Stanford had 17 guys enter the portal after Shaw left. I see that 2 of them had offers from Air Force and Army.

"Walter Rouse Left Tackle

Three-star
No. 470 Nationally, No. 37 OT, No. 4 in DC
Notable Offers: Notre Dame, Air Force, Boston College
Transfer Destination: Nebraska

Ryan Sanborn, Punter

Three-star (0.8317)
No. 1631 nationally, No. 2 P, No. 150 in CA
Notable Offers: Michigan, Army, Washington State
Transfer Destination: Texas"

 

[mthoopsfan]

The prep school "nomination" is from the commanding officer, not under the regular nomination program/process. In the Navy, the prep school nomination comes from SecNav. "For Navy, the Commanding Officer is not a Nominating Source. The actual nomination source is SecNav. The CO merely provides an endorsement to the application for Nomination, but USNA can charge up to 170 active or reserve sailors and marines to the SecNav category."

From an older Government Accounting Office report, which surveyed the vast majority of studies at 3 academies:

"Over 80 percent of students who were not recruited as athletes responded that recruited athletes
receive preferential treatment during the admissions process."

No. The commanding officer of the Prep School absolutely does NOT have nomination authority. No. Just no.

I will close with this...if any poster wants current, accurate information on the process to get into our Academies...DM me.

PATRICK ROHRBACH...kick ass. FLY, FIGHT WIN.

1. "The Prep Schools also create an easier nomination process. Instead of relying on a Congressional Nomination, new avenues of nomination open up for Prep School cadet candidates – the most important being the 85 slots open to active duty service members. Prep Schoolers are considered active duty and qualify under that category."

[This obviously is not the same as for those who apply (get admitted) directly by the Academy. A big difference.]

"A good rule of thumb is 1100 for the SAT or 23 for the ACT. If your student is at or below these scores, the Service Academies will be hesitant to give direct entry into a Service Academy and MAY offer a prep school appointment instead.


[This is why/how many athletes end up getting admitted through the prep schools. Again, a "back door".]

The average SAT/ACT scores for students admitted directly into a Service Academy are about 1300/30, with GPA around 3.85. These vary slightly by Service Academy."

https://www.gainserviceacademyadmission.com/service-academy-prep-schools/

"These prep schools have about an 80% acceptance rate into the Service Academies! This is a great opportunity for students who need additional academic preparation to develop, giving them a greater chance to succeed during their 4-year Service Academy experience. "

"You do not need a Congressional Nomination to receive an offer of appointment to a Prep School."

2. How do you explain what's in this article and the GAO report?

"Recruited athletes at U.S. military academies have lower admissions scores, get lower grades on campus, and are less likely to graduate than the class as a whole, according to a report issued yesterday by the General Accounting Office, the investigative wing of Congress.

[How can you say that athletes don't get accepted easier?]

https://gazette.com/sports/gazette-exclusive-military-academies-including-afa-face-criticism-for-using-prep-schools-to-fill-athletic/article_51a77764-f427-5155-92b0-30a1d5afc04b.amp.html"

 

[mthoopsfan]

"On this day in history, March 16, 1802, United States Military Academy established at West Point
The United States Military Academy at West Point was created by the Military Peace Establishment Act, signed by President Jefferson."

 

[3-7-77]

I, for one, was unaware of the side door processes to the various service academies. I just thought there was a checklist, items A - Z, that had to be accomplished for any admission to AFA, West Point, or the Naval Academy. I was wondering WHERE did they find these people with all high SAT/ACT, GPA and other prerequirements to admission, AND be highly sought after by other DI schools for football, basketball, bowling, or tiddlywinks college 'sports.' On a side note, I did find out, during my later life, about serving officers seeking the Masters Square for promotion, another checklist of sorts. Different story. :?
Thank all of you posters for your contribution to expanding my insight into this area. Sincerely, I thank you. :thumb:
I had never heard of post-high school academy prep schools. Sounds similar to community colleges for the service academies. Comparing these prep schools to a community college is a real stretch, but I have been known to use hyperbole on occasion.
Any way you look at it, an applicant has to be damn qualified academically to get in, front door or back door. No graduation, no commission. Just join the grunts to pay back what the U.S. had invested in you. Thats gotta suck, but, hey, roll the dice and see what happens.

 

[mthoopsfan]

I, for one, was unaware of the side door processes to the various service academies. I just thought there was a checklist, items A - Z, that had to be accomplished for any admission to AFA, West Point, or the Naval Academy. I was wondering WHERE did they find these people with all high SAT/ACT, GPA and other prerequirements to admission, AND be highly sought after by other DI schools for football, basketball, bowling, or tiddlywinks college 'sports.' On a side note, I did find out, during my later life, about serving officers seeking the Masters Square for promotion, another checklist of sorts. Different story. :?
Thank all of you posters for your contribution to expanding my insight into this area. Sincerely, I thank you. :thumb:
I had never heard of post-high school academy prep schools. Sounds similar to community colleges for the service academies. Comparing these prep schools to a community college is a real stretch, but I have been known to use hyperbole on occasion.
Any way you look at it, an applicant has to be damn qualified academically to get in, front door or back door. No graduation, no commission. Just join the grunts to pay back what the U.S. had invested in you. Thats gotta suck, but, hey, roll the dice and see what happens.

I assume that all colleges admit athletes (and certain other groups) easier than regular students. Certainly all top or better academic schools that need lower standards in order to get in good players (or good cello players). I guess I don't know about MIT or U of Chicago. If the Academies had to have their athletes fit the profile of the average regular admittees (or have their overall sport profile meet the school average), they wouldn't even be able to compete at the top FCS. Colleges have multiple categories with lower admission profiles, not just athletes, including legacy admissions and certain POC. The Ivies used to have geographic distribution. That's probably gone away. The Ivies and other top/rich schools have a special thing for kids of rich donors. Someone from fundraising/development meets with the admissions office to go through the applications of kids of rich donors, and the development person puts in good words for those kids. That doesn't mean that any dummies get admitted.

 

[SoldierGriz]

No. The commanding officer of the Prep School absolutely does NOT have nomination authority. No. Just no.

I will close with this...if any poster wants current, accurate information on the process to get into our Academies...DM me.

PATRICK ROHRBACH...kick ass. FLY, FIGHT WIN.

1. "The Prep Schools also create an easier nomination process. Instead of relying on a Congressional Nomination, new avenues of nomination open up for Prep School cadet candidates – the most important being the 85 slots open to active duty service members. Prep Schoolers are considered active duty and qualify under that category."

[This obviously is not the same as for those who apply (get admitted) directly by the Academy. A big difference.]

"A good rule of thumb is 1100 for the SAT or 23 for the ACT. If your student is at or below these scores, the Service Academies will be hesitant to give direct entry into a Service Academy and MAY offer a prep school appointment instead.


[This is why/how many athletes end up getting admitted through the prep schools. Again, a "back door".]

The average SAT/ACT scores for students admitted directly into a Service Academy are about 1300/30, with GPA around 3.85. These vary slightly by Service Academy."

https://www.gainserviceacademyadmission.com/service-academy-prep-schools/

"These prep schools have about an 80% acceptance rate into the Service Academies! This is a great opportunity for students who need additional academic preparation to develop, giving them a greater chance to succeed during their 4-year Service Academy experience. "

"You do not need a Congressional Nomination to receive an offer of appointment to a Prep School."

2. How do you explain what's in this article and the GAO report?

"Recruited athletes at U.S. military academies have lower admissions scores, get lower grades on campus, and are less likely to graduate than the class as a whole, according to a report issued yesterday by the General Accounting Office, the investigative wing of Congress.

[How can you say that athletes don't get accepted easier?]

https://gazette.com/sports/gazette-exclusive-military-academies-including-afa-face-criticism-for-using-prep-schools-to-fill-athletic/article_51a77764-f427-5155-92b0-30a1d5afc04b.amp.html"

No where in that GAO report does it say that recruited athletes don't meet
the academy standards.

Every year the Academies bring in enlisted service members with the potential to gain acceptance to the Academies. They all go to the prep school for 10 months to ensure they are prepared for the academic rigor at the academies.