Schweyen suing UM

[Orso74]

An investigation? If you read the case filing the personal reasons for why the players transferred isn't relative to a Title VII OCR violation which is the main point of her lawsuit brief. AD Kent H very negligently placed the UM in this situation when he opted to rescind the contract renewal offer and based it on two players transferring out of the WB program. He essentially created a double standard by holding her to a standard that in the last year he didn't hold the Men's BB and FB head coaches to when they had players transfer out. You could see this coming a mile away when those men's team transfers happened. In my opinion either UM's leadership is clueless or they banked on Shannon simply moving on into the sunset. Sorry but she gave a better part of her adult life to the U of M and the WB program and if you watched her play-you would know she simply won't take obvious double standard on the chin.

And sorry the Lady Griz haven't been one of the best mid-major women's programs in the West since the early 2000s. But the main point of the lawsuit is the double standard AD Kent H created when opted to rescind the contract renewal based on two players transferring out. If he was an effective leader-he would have never offered the renewal or rescinded it based on other reasons that wouldn't have put him in a "letting the genie out of the bottle and not being able to get it back in" situation. His other problem is he needs to get rid of Jean Gee and he has failed in that area as well. If she knew how to do her job even somewhat well, she would have advised him not to go that route. She has been ineffective at her job for decades now and the administration fails to move on from her because of her brother.

I'm sure the investigation will uncover why players left the Lady Griz program in comparison to why players left the men's team. Shannon is painting the two team's transfer situation with a very broad stroke. Some transfers are player's decision, some coaches decision. I think she had much more of one than the other

Shannon inherited one of the best mid-major programs on the west coast and dwindled it down to painful mediocrity in 4 years. Thats reason enough to end the working relationship lol

 

[Orso74]

You are comparing an Apple to a raisin with this advice/argument. Holst was never offered a renewal etc by Hogan. Hogan made his decision to can Holst (and he had good reason to because a lot of boosters were in support of a change and going after Larry K) after the Griz got swept by MSU who went on to host the BSC tourney that year. Plus Pat Kennedy got canned at DePaul and Hogan-very negligently and stupidly already started the process of reaching out to Kennedy before the tourney was over and well Griz got hot and won the tourney. Holst bought himself a few more years at least, but in my opinion it would have been for nothing because he out-kicked his coverage big-time when he got the job to begin with. Holst was canned as a HS coach in MT 3 times and if he wasn't good buddies with Blaine Taylor, he would have been a retired middle school principal a lot earlier than he ended up being one. Shannon on the other hand had a storied career as a player for the LG program and was an assistant etc, etc that spent 90% of her adult life being apart of the program and university. Holst was a volunteer GA in 1987-88 and was lucky to get on Stu's staff when Monte left for Stanford. Again, Blaine T was a big reason for that. Holst should be supportive etc even after getting a raw deal, but Shannon's situation is entirely different and well I don't blame her if she never wants to step foot on the campus again.

Shannon should have followed the example of Don Holst. When he was let go, I'm sure he was upset, and he had a lot of upset supporters to back him. But he accepted the decision and moved on. He goes to Griz games, interacts with a lot of people while at the games, and seems to really enjoy being there. I doubt we will ever see Shannon on the UM campus again. Her history as a great Lady Griz player will be lost as most will remember her dismal record as coach and now her suing her alma mater.

 

[Orso74]

You watch too much law and order on TV. This will never see a court room. It will be settled out of court and even if it did go to court-UM legal council wouldn't call former players to testify or get signed legal affidavits from them, because they have nothing to do with the alleged Title VII violation. Take the time to read the case brief and maybe read what Title VII is all about.

She’s an absolute piece of shit as a coach and developed an absolutely toxic culture. She only mentions those two girls transferring out when there were another four threatening to go unless she was relieved of her duties. When you got six different girls trying to leave it’s time to look in the mirror Shannon.

This is what I heard, also. It will be interesting when current/former players take the stand or are deposed and describe the culture in that locker room as to why they transferred or were thinking about it. Her reputation could be front and center.

 

[Orso74]

Well if AD Kent H didn't do the same survey for all the other athletic teams especially the men's basketball team-then that us a clear Title VII violation. A lot of people posting on here clearly haven't bothered (which doesn't surprise me) to read the actual brief filing that her attorneys submitted in Federal Court.

This is what I heard, also. It will be interesting when current/former players take the stand or are deposed and describe the culture in that locker room as to why they transferred or were thinking about it. Her reputation could be front and center.

I hope it blows up in her face. I think it’s disgusting what she is trying to pull. Not only were all those other players going to leave, you have Sammy Fatkin actually come back to the Griz once Shannon is let go.

I know for a fact the Athletic Dept did an anonymous team survey to get a pulse on that locker room and the results were horrid. That was a big piece in the non renewal.

 

[Orso74]

Bottomline is this case will probably not see the inside of a court room, because it would create a lot of bad publicity especially for the UM and in the woke social media etc world we live in that will hurt the LG program moving forward and the university as well, etc. Over the last decade the UM has had more than its fair share of that and at the end of the day- Haslam messed up with how he went about rescinding the contract renewal. He essentially painted himself into a corner and just decided to run back across the floor to the door. He left a lot of foot prints with that run that Shannon's legal counsel very precisely point out in their case brief. Former players won't testify or even be talked to by lawyers from either side etc. The lawyers will hash this out with a settlement that will probably have an agreement in it where Shannon or her family or legal counsel will not be able to divulge the terms of the settlement and if they do then she forfeits the terms of the settlement, etc. And life in Missoula and for all parties involved will move on after many assumptions about what really took place are posted on this platform. LOL

 

[putter]

Bottomline is this case will probably not see the inside of a court room, because it would create a lot of bad publicity especially for the UM and in the woke social media etc world we live in that will hurt the LG program moving forward and the university as well, etc. Over the last decade the UM has had more than its fair share of that and at the end of the day- Haslam messed up with how he went about rescinding the contract renewal. He essentially painted himself into a corner and just decided to run back across the floor to the door. He left a lot of foot prints with that run that Shannon's legal counsel very precisely point out in their case brief. Former players won't testify or even be talked to by lawyers from either side etc. The lawyers will hash this out with a settlement that will probably have an agreement in it where Shannon or her family or legal counsel will not be able to divulge the terms of the settlement and if they do then she forfeits the terms of the settlement, etc. And life in Missoula and for all parties involved will move on after many assumptions about what really took place are posted on this platform. LOL

So tell me, to prove Disparate treatment, how can Montana not bring a possible factor of "toxic work environment"? Like I posted, that is what I heard was the deciding factor. That is why girls were leaving (yes not unlike any other program). Would that not make a difference and UM could say that is why they "treated" Shannon different than Travis and others? Shannon's environment compared to others was not positive

 

[Zirg]

I don't know what matters in the court of law, and I am torn on this matter. I totally agree that Shannon should not have been fired/held responsible for players that transferred considering that Travis' men's team and MOST D1 programs are experiencing wide-spread transferring due to the new ludicrous "free-for-all" transfer rules. If she was fired because of a lack of success, that is more arguable, but it was obvious that she was fired after a cpl transfers and their negative comments upon transferring. "Toxic work environment" is a lame phrase. I would argue that Robin Selvig's approach was more "toxic" than Shannon, but because he was winning and it was a different era nobody every said a word. Robin Selvig and his approach could never be hired to coach a women's team today.

 

[putter]

I don't know what matters in the court of law, and I am torn on this matter. I totally agree that Shannon should not have been fired/held responsible for players that transferred considering that Travis' men's team and MOST D1 programs are experiencing wide-spread transferring due to the new ludicrous "free-for-all" transfer rules. If she was fired because of a lack of success, that is more arguable, but it was obvious that she was fired after a cpl transfers and their negative comments upon transferring. "Toxic work environment" is a lame phrase. I would argue that Robin Selvig's approach was more "toxic" than Shannon, but because he was winning and it was a different era nobody every said a word. Robin Selvig and his approach could never be hired to coach a women's team today.

Toxic was the closest example I could come up with, however, I don't think it is far off. I have no knowledge of how Robin ran his program and I have no knowledge of how Shannon ran her program. All I know is that (supposedly) most of the team were telling Haslam they were leaving and why. He then made his decision

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

I totally agree that Shannon should not have been fired/held responsible for players that transferred considering that Travis' men's team and MOST D1 programs are experiencing wide-spread transferring due to the new ludicrous "free-for-all" transfer rules.

I think you must consider the reason behind the transfers. This is where Shannon will get hurt.

 

[MissoulaMarinerFan]

I totally agree that Shannon should not have been fired/held responsible for players that transferred considering that Travis' men's team and MOST D1 programs are experiencing wide-spread transferring due to the new ludicrous "free-for-all" transfer rules.

I think you must consider the reason behind the transfers. This is where Shannon will get hurt.

Yep. Again, if the main point is based on "two people transferred out".... well, it was way more than 2 over the 4 years of coaching.

 

[maroonandsilver]

I totally agree that Shannon should not have been fired/held responsible for players that transferred considering that Travis' men's team and MOST D1 programs are experiencing wide-spread transferring due to the new ludicrous "free-for-all" transfer rules.

I think you must consider the reason behind the transfers. This is where Shannon will get hurt.

Travis has coached UM to 4- 20 win seasons, 2 back-to-back BSC season championships, 2 BSC tourney championships, and 2 NCAA tourney berths. Yes, Shannon, it's all about sex discrimination :roll:

 

[Orso74]

Bottomline is this case will probably not see the inside of a court room, because it would create a lot of bad publicity especially for the UM and in the woke social media etc world we live in that will hurt the LG program moving forward and the university as well, etc. Over the last decade the UM has had more than its fair share of that and at the end of the day- Haslam messed up with how he went about rescinding the contract renewal. He essentially painted himself into a corner and just decided to run back across the floor to the door. He left a lot of foot prints with that run that Shannon's legal counsel very precisely point out in their case brief. Former players won't testify or even be talked to by lawyers from either side etc. The lawyers will hash this out with a settlement that will probably have an agreement in it where Shannon or her family or legal counsel will not be able to divulge the terms of the settlement and if they do then she forfeits the terms of the settlement, etc. And life in Missoula and for all parties involved will move on after many assumptions about what really took place are posted on this platform. LOL

So tell me, to prove Disparate treatment, how can Montana not bring a possible factor of "toxic work environment"? Like I posted, that is what I heard was the deciding factor. That is why girls were leaving (yes not unlike any other program). Would that not make a difference and UM could say that is why they "treated" Shannon different than Travis and others? Shannon's environment compared to others was not positive

The point of her lawsuit is Haslam set a new and reckless head coaching evaluation precedent when he opted to not move forward with the contract renewal based on her having two players transfer out. And the team environment that existed under her tenure is irrelevant to this lawsuit based on it being about her civil rights being violated or that is what she is claiming. Furthermore, it doesn’t serve the UM legal counsel any benefit in their response to have signed legal affidavits from former players that transferred out and beyond that the former transfer players would have to have their legal counsel present to do so and they would advise them not to go on record because they would then open themselves up for a possible civil suit for defamation and slander. Again, there just isn’t any legal purpose to even have testimony from former transfer players, etc in a response to this filing. And if they did, Shannon’s attonery would file a motion to have those affidavits thrown out and a judge would probably grant that motion because they fall outside of the scope of the Title VII legal scope.

 

[Orso74]

I don't know what matters in the court of law, and I am torn on this matter. I totally agree that Shannon should not have been fired/held responsible for players that transferred considering that Travis' men's team and MOST D1 programs are experiencing wide-spread transferring due to the new ludicrous "free-for-all" transfer rules. If she was fired because of a lack of success, that is more arguable, but it was obvious that she was fired after a cpl transfers and their negative comments upon transferring. "Toxic work environment" is a lame phrase. I would argue that Robin Selvig's approach was more "toxic" than Shannon, but because he was winning and it was a different era nobody every said a word. Robin Selvig and his approach could never be hired to coach a women's team today.

Toxic was the closest example I could come up with, however, I don't think it is far off. I have no knowledge of how Robin ran his program and I have no knowledge of how Shannon ran her program. All I know is that (supposedly) most of the team were telling Haslam they were leaving and why. He then made his decision

And by doing so he set a very reckless precedent for how he evaluates head coaches for contract renewals and job performance, etc. Hence if he evaluates female head coaches this way then he has to apply the same precedent for male head coaches and he clearly didn’t. And that is why her case filing claims a Title VII violation took place based on gender, etc.

 

[Orso74]

I think you must consider the reason behind the transfers. This is where Shannon will get hurt.

Travis has coached UM to 4- 20 win seasons, 2 back-to-back BSC season championships, 2 BSC tourney championships, and 2 NCAA tourney berths. Yes, Shannon, it's all about sex discrimination :roll:

Civil Rights Law doesn’t care about wins and losses and titles or basically equality of outcomes. It cares about equal treatment based on equal standards. And that is what her suit is all about.

 

[putter]

Toxic was the closest example I could come up with, however, I don't think it is far off. I have no knowledge of how Robin ran his program and I have no knowledge of how Shannon ran her program. All I know is that (supposedly) most of the team were telling Haslam they were leaving and why. He then made his decision

And by doing so he set a very reckless precedent for how he evaluates head coaches for contract renewals and job performance, etc. Hence if he evaluates female head coaches this way then he has to apply the same precedent for male head coaches and he clearly didn’t. And that is why her case filing claims a Title VII violation took place based on gender, etc.

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Dillon]

Two Words - Sour Grapes!

 

[Dillon]

I also think Shannon wanted to emulate Selvig but instead turned into a bad ass instead! Just my opinion & 2 sense!

 

[HookedonGriz]

An investigation? If you read the case filing the personal reasons for why the players transferred isn't relative to a Title VII OCR violation which is the main point of her lawsuit brief. AD Kent H very negligently placed the UM in this situation when he opted to rescind the contract renewal offer and based it on two players transferring out of the WB program. He essentially created a double standard by holding her to a standard that in the last year he didn't hold the Men's BB and FB head coaches to when they had players transfer out. You could see this coming a mile away when those men's team transfers happened. In my opinion either UM's leadership is clueless or they banked on Shannon simply moving on into the sunset. Sorry but she gave a better part of her adult life to the U of M and the WB program and if you watched her play-you would know she simply won't take obvious double standard on the chin.

And sorry the Lady Griz haven't been one of the best mid-major women's programs in the West since the early 2000s. But the main point of the lawsuit is the double standard AD Kent H created when opted to rescind the contract renewal based on two players transferring out. If he was an effective leader-he would have never offered the renewal or rescinded it based on other reasons that wouldn't have put him in a "letting the genie out of the bottle and not being able to get it back in" situation. His other problem is he needs to get rid of Jean Gee and he has failed in that area as well. If she knew how to do her job even somewhat well, she would have advised him not to go that route. She has been ineffective at her job for decades now and the administration fails to move on from her because of her brother.

I'm sure the investigation will uncover why players left the Lady Griz program in comparison to why players left the men's team. Shannon is painting the two team's transfer situation with a very broad stroke. Some transfers are player's decision, some coaches decision. I think she had much more of one than the other

Shannon inherited one of the best mid-major programs on the west coast and dwindled it down to painful mediocrity in 4 years. Thats reason enough to end the working relationship lol

You’re leaving out a major part of all of this. It wasn’t rescinded over 2 players transferring out….it was rescinded when 5 other players showed up in his office begging him not to extend her. Literally begging him and saying they were done if she was their coach.

 

[br fan]

I'm not sure what Orso 74 is referring to when he cites the case brief filed by Shannon's attorneys, but I believe the only thing that has been filed is her complaint alleging she was let go simply because two of her players entered the portal. I've not seen where UM has admitted to this allegation, and I'd be surprised if UM were to admit to letting her go simply for that reason. That may be part of the reason, but I think UM will claim the problems with Shannon ran deeper.

There's nothing magic about a Title VII case. The law simply requires similarly situated employees be treated equally. UM can claim Shannon was not similarly situated with the other coaches, and UM can present any relevant evidence it wants that tends to prove they were not.

 

[LittleBear]

An investigation? If you read the case filing the personal reasons for why the players transferred isn't relative to a Title VII OCR violation which is the main point of her lawsuit brief. AD Kent H very negligently placed the UM in this situation when he opted to rescind the contract renewal offer and based it on two players transferring out of the WB program. He essentially created a double standard by holding her to a standard that in the last year he didn't hold the Men's BB and FB head coaches to when they had players transfer out. You could see this coming a mile away when those men's team transfers happened. In my opinion either UM's leadership is clueless or they banked on Shannon simply moving on into the sunset. Sorry but she gave a better part of her adult life to the U of M and the WB program and if you watched her play-you would know she simply won't take obvious double standard on the chin.

And sorry the Lady Griz haven't been one of the best mid-major women's programs in the West since the early 2000s. But the main point of the lawsuit is the double standard AD Kent H created when opted to rescind the contract renewal based on two players transferring out. If he was an effective leader-he would have never offered the renewal or rescinded it based on other reasons that wouldn't have put him in a "letting the genie out of the bottle and not being able to get it back in" situation. His other problem is he needs to get rid of Jean Gee and he has failed in that area as well. If she knew how to do her job even somewhat well, she would have advised him not to go that route. She has been ineffective at her job for decades now and the administration fails to move on from her because of her brother.

I'm sure the investigation will uncover why players left the Lady Griz program in comparison to why players left the men's team. Shannon is painting the two team's transfer situation with a very broad stroke. Some transfers are player's decision, some coaches decision. I think she had much more of one than the other

Shannon inherited one of the best mid-major programs on the west coast and dwindled it down to painful mediocrity in 4 years. Thats reason enough to end the working relationship lol

I don't really care about her lawsuit. However it's incredibly comical that she is trying to rationalize her contract not getting renewed for TWO players transferring, and then trying to compare her dogshit program to the men's team. You do know that Kent and Jean have meetings with transferring players right? as well as the coaches when player's transfer right? Thats what I mean by the investigation. I'd love to see the receipts.

Most players who left the Griz men's basketball program did not want to leave...they were asked to leave, mostly due to their inability to play at this level, as well as a few that were not compatible with program culture. Can the same be said about the players transferring out of the Lady Griz program? How many LG players were asked to leave compared to how many chose to leave?

Say what you want about Jean but she's incredibly thorough and would rather play by the rules than give anyone in UM athletics. There is no way she's risking her job to show favorites to any program. Which is why she's not many people's favorite person.

The Lady Griz made it to the NCAA tournament in Selvig's 2nd to last year of coaching (2015). They made it to the tourney 3 of his last 6 years. They had some of the best attendance numbers in the country. Which mid-major program in the WAC, Big West, or WCC outside of Gonzaga could say that? Shannan got the job and never finished higher than 5th. She had ONE winning season. She won ONE Big Sky Conference tournament game. I'm well aware that Kaleigh Valley and Alycia Harris had some tough injuries. I know Shannan was probably your favorite player growing up, but that doesn't discount the fact that she was simply an awful coach. Her teams had no off-ball defensive principles, ran a junior varsity level offensive scheme (re-watch the 4th quarter of the 2020 game against the cats at Dahlberg...they scored 4 points in the 4th quarter), and built one of the most unathletic and overall average teams to play at the division one level. Look at the development of Sammy Fatkin, Gabi Harrington, and even Carmen Gfeller after Shannan left. Shannan was a great player, but shit coach and identifier of talent...and thats ok. I'll lump her in the same category as Isaiah Thomas, Michael Jordan (Adam Morrison?) , and John Elway (Paxton Lynch?)

Kent's only mistake (and you and I agree on this) is that he even considered giving her an extension. Looking at the early the success of this year's team should solidify any and all questions of whether the decision to get rid of Shannan was the right one.