Schweyen suing UM

[maroonandsilver]

An investigation? If you read the case filing the personal reasons for why the players transferred isn't relative to a Title VII OCR violation which is the main point of her lawsuit brief. AD Kent H very negligently placed the UM in this situation when he opted to rescind the contract renewal offer and based it on two players transferring out of the WB program. He essentially created a double standard by holding her to a standard that in the last year he didn't hold the Men's BB and FB head coaches to when they had players transfer out. You could see this coming a mile away when those men's team transfers happened. In my opinion either UM's leadership is clueless or they banked on Shannon simply moving on into the sunset. Sorry but she gave a better part of her adult life to the U of M and the WB program and if you watched her play-you would know she simply won't take obvious double standard on the chin.

And sorry the Lady Griz haven't been one of the best mid-major women's programs in the West since the early 2000s. But the main point of the lawsuit is the double standard AD Kent H created when opted to rescind the contract renewal based on two players transferring out. If he was an effective leader-he would have never offered the renewal or rescinded it based on other reasons that wouldn't have put him in a "letting the genie out of the bottle and not being able to get it back in" situation. His other problem is he needs to get rid of Jean Gee and he has failed in that area as well. If she knew how to do her job even somewhat well, she would have advised him not to go that route. She has been ineffective at her job for decades now and the administration fails to move on from her because of her brother.

I don't really care about her lawsuit. However it's incredibly comical that she is trying to rationalize her contract not getting renewed for TWO players transferring, and then trying to compare her dogshit program to the men's team. You do know that Kent and Jean have meetings with transferring players right? as well as the coaches when player's transfer right? Thats what I mean by the investigation. I'd love to see the receipts.

Most players who left the Griz men's basketball program did not want to leave...they were asked to leave, mostly due to their inability to play at this level, as well as a few that were not compatible with program culture. Can the same be said about the players transferring out of the Lady Griz program? How many LG players were asked to leave compared to how many chose to leave?

Say what you want about Jean but she's incredibly thorough and would rather play by the rules than give anyone in UM athletics. There is no way she's risking her job to show favorites to any program. Which is why she's not many people's favorite person.

The Lady Griz made it to the NCAA tournament in Selvig's 2nd to last year of coaching (2015). They made it to the tourney 3 of his last 6 years. They had some of the best attendance numbers in the country. Which mid-major program in the WAC, Big West, or WCC outside of Gonzaga could say that? Shannan got the job and never finished higher than 5th. She had ONE winning season. She won ONE Big Sky Conference tournament game. I'm well aware that Kaleigh Valley and Alycia Harris had some tough injuries. I know Shannan was probably your favorite player growing up, but that doesn't discount the fact that she was simply an awful coach. Her teams had no off-ball defensive principles, ran a junior varsity level offensive scheme (re-watch the 4th quarter of the 2020 game against the cats at Dahlberg...they scored 4 points in the 4th quarter), and built one of the most unathletic and overall average teams to play at the division one level. Look at the development of Sammy Fatkin, Gabi Harrington, and even Carmen Gfeller after Shannan left. Shannan was a great player, but shit coach and identifier of talent...and thats ok. I'll lump her in the same category as Isaiah Thomas, Michael Jordan (Adam Morrison?) , and John Elway (Paxton Lynch?)

Kent's only mistake (and you and I agree on this) is that he even considered giving her an extension. Looking at the early the success of this year's team should solidify any and all questions of whether the decision to get rid of Shannan was the right one.
[/quote

YES!!! :thumb: :clap:

 

[Orso74]

I don't really care about her lawsuit. However it's incredibly comical that she is trying to rationalize her contract not getting renewed for TWO players transferring, and then trying to compare her dogshit program to the men's team. You do know that Kent and Jean have meetings with transferring players right? as well as the coaches when player's transfer right? Thats what I mean by the investigation. I'd love to see the receipts.

Most players who left the Griz men's basketball program did not want to leave...they were asked to leave, mostly due to their inability to play at this level, as well as a few that were not compatible with program culture. Can the same be said about the players transferring out of the Lady Griz program? How many LG players were asked to leave compared to how many chose to leave?

Say what you want about Jean but she's incredibly thorough and would rather play by the rules than give anyone in UM athletics. There is no way she's risking her job to show favorites to any program. Which is why she's not many people's favorite person.

The Lady Griz made it to the NCAA tournament in Selvig's 2nd to last year of coaching (2015). They made it to the tourney 3 of his last 6 years. They had some of the best attendance numbers in the country. Which mid-major program in the WAC, Big West, or WCC outside of Gonzaga could say that? Shannan got the job and never finished higher than 5th. She had ONE winning season. She won ONE Big Sky Conference tournament game. I'm well aware that Kaleigh Valley and Alycia Harris had some tough injuries. I know Shannan was probably your favorite player growing up, but that doesn't discount the fact that she was simply an awful coach. Her teams had no off-ball defensive principles, ran a junior varsity level offensive scheme (re-watch the 4th quarter of the 2020 game against the cats at Dahlberg...they scored 4 points in the 4th quarter), and built one of the most unathletic and overall average teams to play at the division one level. Look at the development of Sammy Fatkin, Gabi Harrington, and even Carmen Gfeller after Shannan left. Shannan was a great player, but shit coach and identifier of talent...and thats ok. I'll lump her in the same category as Isaiah Thomas, Michael Jordan (Adam Morrison?) , and John Elway (Paxton Lynch?)

Kent's only mistake (and you and I agree on this) is that he even considered giving her an extension. Looking at the early the success of this year's team should solidify any and all questions of whether the decision to get rid of Shannan was the right one.
[/quote

YES!!! :thumb: :clap:

Just because you have good attendance at your games doesn't equate to having a top mid-major or any kind of program. There are a lot programs out there that put butts in the seats and the best they do is make it to their conference tourney quarterfinal game every year. And this year's team hasn't even played 10 games yet and let alone any team worth being impressed by. Yep squeezing out that win over Rocky was a huge step. And if you don't care about her lawsuit then why are you commenting on a thread that is about her lawsuit (lol). Of course it is comical to you, because you are ignorant to facts and reality. Who cares if Jean and Kent H interview transferring players etc? One it is voluntary for transfers athletes to do per NCAA rules. 2.They don't have to do the interview and anything said in those interviews is confidential. So the U of M lawyers are not going to even waste their time with that information because it is hearsay at best, which the U.S. District Court judge for this case (if it goes to trial) wouldn't allow that information because it has no legal relevance to the title VII violation. Furthermore, the U of M isn't going to place those former transfer players in a situation where they could get sued in civil court for defamation, etc. Haslam and Gee screwed up with the precedent they set. Part of Gee's job is make sure no gender or equality violations take place. Looks like she, Kent and HR dropped the ball on this one and it will cost Montana tax payers a pretty penny in the end, which I will find very comical. And Julie Epperly was my favorite Lady Griz player not Shannon.

 

[Orso74]

An investigation? If you read the case filing the personal reasons for why the players transferred isn't relative to a Title VII OCR violation which is the main point of her lawsuit brief. AD Kent H very negligently placed the UM in this situation when he opted to rescind the contract renewal offer and based it on two players transferring out of the WB program. He essentially created a double standard by holding her to a standard that in the last year he didn't hold the Men's BB and FB head coaches to when they had players transfer out. You could see this coming a mile away when those men's team transfers happened. In my opinion either UM's leadership is clueless or they banked on Shannon simply moving on into the sunset. Sorry but she gave a better part of her adult life to the U of M and the WB program and if you watched her play-you would know she simply won't take obvious double standard on the chin.

And sorry the Lady Griz haven't been one of the best mid-major women's programs in the West since the early 2000s. But the main point of the lawsuit is the double standard AD Kent H created when opted to rescind the contract renewal based on two players transferring out. If he was an effective leader-he would have never offered the renewal or rescinded it based on other reasons that wouldn't have put him in a "letting the genie out of the bottle and not being able to get it back in" situation. His other problem is he needs to get rid of Jean Gee and he has failed in that area as well. If she knew how to do her job even somewhat well, she would have advised him not to go that route. She has been ineffective at her job for decades now and the administration fails to move on from her because of her brother.

You’re leaving out a major part of all of this. It wasn’t rescinded over 2 players transferring out….it was rescinded when 5 other players showed up in his office begging him not to extend her. Literally begging him and saying they were done if she was their coach.

2,5,6,8 players transferring is all semantics. The main point is players transferring out was used to justify pulling back the contract renewal. And as such a precedent was created that now needs to be applied to other head coaches as well, regardless of their gender. And her complaint's main point is that hasn't been taking place. So therefore, she is claiming a title VII violation took place and she is subject to receive what she is asking for in her complaint. Whether that happens or not we will find out soon enough. A lot of these other things that you and other people on here are bringing up like things that have gone in her personal life etc, is laughable because it has nothing to do with the legal scope of her complaint and how the University will reply to it etc. It is that simple.

 

[LittleBear]

Just because you have good attendance at your games doesn't equate to having a top mid-major or any kind of program. There are a lot programs out there that put butts in the seats and the best they do is make it to their conference tourney quarterfinal game every year. And this year's team hasn't even played 10 games yet and let alone any team worth being impressed by. Yep squeezing out that win over Rocky was a huge step. And if you don't care about her lawsuit then why are you commenting on a thread that is about her lawsuit (lol). Of course it is comical to you, because you are ignorant to facts and reality. Who cares if Jean and Kent H interview transferring players etc? One it is voluntary for transfers athletes to do per NCAA rules. 2.They don't have to do the interview and anything said in those interviews is confidential. So the U of M lawyers are not going to even waste their time with that information because it is hearsay at best, which the U.S. District Court judge for this case (if it goes to trial) wouldn't allow that information because it has no legal relevance to the title VII violation. Furthermore, the U of M isn't going to place those former transfer players in a situation where they could get sued in civil court for defamation, etc. Haslam and Gee screwed up with the precedent they set. Part of Gee's job is make sure no gender or equality violations take place. Looks like she, Kent and HR dropped the ball on this one and it will cost Montana tax payers a pretty penny in the end, which I will find very comical. And Julie Epperly was my favorite Lady Griz player not Shannon.

I don’t give a sh!t about Shannan nor do I give a sh!t about her lawsuit. I hope for your sake she goes out and wins 100 mil of taxpayer money. The American dream baby. Maybe you’ll get a piece of that being her internet lawyer. But I’m not gonna compare Youtube University law degrees with you and argue a lawsuit…because I really don’t care, I’d rather talk basketball.

I guess you failed to see where I mentioned attendance as just a fraction of why the Lady Griz program was one of the best mid major jobs when Schweyen was hired. You kinda skipped over the whole 3 NCAA tourney appearances in 6 years part.
The fact that you want to discount the growth of the program this season is wild. Trying to argue that the LG are just as bad as they were under Shannon won’t bring her back. Idk I guess the 7 point loss to a Gonzaga team that just lost to Stanford by 4 doesn’t mean anything. Remember Stanford? The team that won the national championship last year? Or what about the LG road victory over NDSU, who’s picked 3rd in the summit, a much better mid-major conference than the big sky?

If you want to continue believing Shannon was fired over two players transferring, fine. If you want to believe the world was against Shannon, cool. Like I said, I hope she gets 100 mil and invites you to the lake house for the celebration. But I for one, am glad she’s gone. She was a bad coach who recruited a lot of bad players, was unable to develop players, couldn’t run a set with a single counter or second scoring option, couldn’t teach her players where to be on defense when the ball was two passes away, could never get past the quarterfinals of the big sky conference tournament, and finished her head coaching career with 17 more losses than wins. Maybe Kent should have hired Julie.

 

[Sugar Bear 16]

I don't really care about her lawsuit. However it's incredibly comical that she is trying to rationalize her contract not getting renewed for TWO players transferring, and then trying to compare her dogshit program to the men's team. You do know that Kent and Jean have meetings with transferring players right? as well as the coaches when player's transfer right? Thats what I mean by the investigation. I'd love to see the receipts.

Most players who left the Griz men's basketball program did not want to leave...they were asked to leave, mostly due to their inability to play at this level, as well as a few that were not compatible with program culture. Can the same be said about the players transferring out of the Lady Griz program? How many LG players were asked to leave compared to how many chose to leave?

Say what you want about Jean but she's incredibly thorough and would rather play by the rules than give anyone in UM athletics. There is no way she's risking her job to show favorites to any program. Which is why she's not many people's favorite person.

The Lady Griz made it to the NCAA tournament in Selvig's 2nd to last year of coaching (2015). They made it to the tourney 3 of his last 6 years. They had some of the best attendance numbers in the country. Which mid-major program in the WAC, Big West, or WCC outside of Gonzaga could say that? Shannan got the job and never finished higher than 5th. She had ONE winning season. She won ONE Big Sky Conference tournament game. I'm well aware that Kaleigh Valley and Alycia Harris had some tough injuries. I know Shannan was probably your favorite player growing up, but that doesn't discount the fact that she was simply an awful coach. Her teams had no off-ball defensive principles, ran a junior varsity level offensive scheme (re-watch the 4th quarter of the 2020 game against the cats at Dahlberg...they scored 4 points in the 4th quarter), and built one of the most unathletic and overall average teams to play at the division one level. Look at the development of Sammy Fatkin, Gabi Harrington, and even Carmen Gfeller after Shannan left. Shannan was a great player, but shit coach and identifier of talent...and thats ok. I'll lump her in the same category as Isaiah Thomas, Michael Jordan (Adam Morrison?) , and John Elway (Paxton Lynch?)

Kent's only mistake (and you and I agree on this) is that he even considered giving her an extension. Looking at the early the success of this year's team should solidify any and all questions of whether the decision to get rid of Shannan was the right one.
[/quote

YES!!! :thumb: :clap:

Made it to the tourney 3 out 6 years. That’s 50% which is not an indicator of a “power” program. Midmajor powers make the tourney every year or 80% an above and advance to the 2nd round and beyond sometimes. I agree with Orso74 that the Lady Griz program hasn’t really had “power” status since about 2002. The rest of League and programs in the region caught up. Look at what Kelly Graves did at Gonzaga in a decade. Pretty impressive and it certainly took its toll on the Lady Griz status in the region. But I suppose you probably blame Shannon for that too and the transfer portal culture even though Graves moved on to Oregon in 2014 and the transfer culture really started to get ridiculous by 2015. Haslam screwed up and university HR dept screwed up too by not giving him better guidance on how to pull out of the offer. Time to pay the piper I guess.

 

[teejay406]

50% in six years is a whole lot better than 0% in four.

We’ve heard one side of the story through her court filing and a few posters want to call it a slam dunk case. I’m no lawyer, but I doubt Orso’s assertion that a judge will simply look at Haslam’s “transferring players” comment to award a multimillion dollar judgement. The totality of the circumstances will matter to any judge, and that doesn’t bode well for the former coach.

You can also argue that this years team hasn’t proven anything yet. That’s fine. But for someone who’s watched every game in the last 5 years, this team at least looks happy and willing to compete which makes it a whole lot more fun to watch.

 

[ThinkingGriz]

Orso is long winded. I can prove that one.
It's on Shannon to prove her allegations that are debatable and speculative. UM is well documented against Shannon from players. Travis had head coaching experience prior to UM and had proven himself for two years prior to Shannon being hired as head. What job does anyone get paid highest wage available just starting unless your on a foreign board and you have a link to the big guy. I doubt that at any time during her contract that Shannon filed a complaint on her contract or being sexually discriminated against. If you are that's what you do. Non issue until she received a non renewal. Shannon probably has no idea how much came to light just before her non renewal.
I'd still like to see player rep weigh in on this however he is/was mostly a very strong advocate for the student athletes and dance squad.

 

[LittleBear]

Made it to the tourney 3 out 6 years. That’s 50% which is not an indicator of a “power” program. Midmajor powers make the tourney every year or 80% an above and advance to the 2nd round and beyond sometimes. I agree with Orso74 that the Lady Griz program hasn’t really had “power” status since about 2002. The rest of League and programs in the region caught up. Look at what Kelly Graves did at Gonzaga in a decade. Pretty impressive and it certainly took its toll on the Lady Griz status in the region. But I suppose you probably blame Shannon for that too and the transfer portal culture even though Graves moved on to Oregon in 2014 and the transfer culture really started to get ridiculous by 2015. Haslam screwed up and university HR dept screwed up too by not giving him better guidance on how to pull out of the offer. Time to pay the piper I guess.

Wtf…posts like this are how you can sniff out a casual. Someone who thinks getting to the NCAA tourney at a 50% clip isn’t dominant.
Idaho state (current champ) had an 8 year gap between championships.
Portland State (2019 champ) had a 9 season gap between champs.
Northern Colorado (2018 champ) had NEVER won a tourney championship.
Montana state (2017champ) hadn’t been to the NCAA tournament since 1993.
Idaho (2016 champ) hadn’t won a big sky championship since 1985.

Like wtf are you talking about. Look at one of my earlier comments. Name a more successful mid major program from the WAC, Big West, or WCC OUTSIDE of Gonzaga that won EIGHT Big sky Championships from the year 2000 to 2016 (8 out of 17 NCAA tourney appearances). The lady Griz went to the NCAA Tourney 47% of the seasons in the 2000’s before Shannon got the job. That’s dominant. Not as dominant as the 80’s or 90’s but still the most consistent and dominant team over that 17 seasons in the Big Sky Conference.

Once Shannon got the job she won a single conference tourney game and lost 17 more games than she won. Like what’s your argument. Keep to arguing Legalities like Orso because anyone who tries arguing Shannon’s capabilities as a head coach is out of touch with reality.

 

[maroonandsilver]

Wtf…posts like this are how you can sniff out a casual. Someone who thinks getting to the NCAA tourney at a 50% clip isn’t dominant.
Idaho state (current champ) had an 8 year gap between championships.
Portland State (2019 champ) had a 9 season gap between champs.
Northern Colorado (2018 champ) had NEVER won a tourney championship.
Montana state (2017champ) hadn’t been to the NCAA tournament since 1993.
Idaho (2016 champ) hadn’t won a big sky championship since 1985.

Like wtf are you talking about. Look at one of my earlier comments. Name a more successful mid major program from the WAC, Big West, or WCC OUTSIDE of Gonzaga that won EIGHT Big sky Championships from the year 2000 to 2016 (8 out of 17 NCAA tourney appearances). The lady Griz went to the NCAA Tourney 47% of the seasons in the 2000’s before Shannon got the job. That’s dominant. Not as dominant as the 80’s or 90’s but still the most consistent and dominant team over that 17 seasons in the Big Sky Conference.

Once Shannon got the job she won a single conference tourney game and lost 17 more games than she won. Like what’s your argument. Keep to arguing Legalities like Orso because anyone who tries arguing Shannon’s capabilities as a head coach is out of touch with reality.

I don't know how this posting got labeled from me. But it was not my post. I agree with you, Little Bear. I have never been a Shannon fan. I opposed her hiring in the first place. Haslam was put in the tough position of having to hire her because of her years of service to UM, and everyone just assumed the job was hers when Rob retired. He gave her the opportunity and she failed miserably. I know one sports media person who told me Rob did not want her as his successor.

Wendy Shueler(sp?) has or had a similar suit against EWU. Anyone have any updates on what is happening with that?

 

[GrizBaba]

I don't know how this posting got labeled from me. But it was not my post. I agree with you, Little Bear. I have never been a Shannon fan. I opposed her hiring in the first place. Haslam was put in the tough position of having to hire her because of her years of service to UM, and everyone just assumed the job was hers when Rob retired. He gave her the opportunity and she failed miserably. I know one sports media person who told me Rob did not want her as his successor.

Wendy Shueler(sp?) has or had a similar suit against EWU. Anyone have any updates on what is happening with that?

I think the software is leaving off one of the '[/quote]' markup codes. Add another at the bottom before you start typing after it.

 

[GGNez]

You’re leaving out a major part of all of this. It wasn’t rescinded over 2 players transferring out….it was rescinded when 5 other players showed up in his office begging him not to extend her. Literally begging him and saying they were done if she was their coach.

2,5,6,8 players transferring is all semantics. The main point is players transferring out was used to justify pulling back the contract renewal. And as such a precedent was created that now needs to be applied to other head coaches as well, regardless of their gender. And her complaint's main point is that hasn't been taking place. So therefore, she is claiming a title VII violation took place and she is subject to receive what she is asking for in her complaint. Whether that happens or not we will find out soon enough. A lot of these other things that you and other people on here are bringing up like things that have gone in her personal life etc, is laughable because it has nothing to do with the legal scope of her complaint and how the University will reply to it etc. It is that simple.

Orso, thank you for explaining this from a legal perspective and having an informed, intelligent and authentic perspective on the whole situation.

 

[Dillon]

2,5,6,8 players transferring is all semantics. The main point is players transferring out was used to justify pulling back the contract renewal. And as such a precedent was created that now needs to be applied to other head coaches as well, regardless of their gender. And her complaint's main point is that hasn't been taking place. So therefore, she is claiming a title VII violation took place and she is subject to receive what she is asking for in her complaint. Whether that happens or not we will find out soon enough. A lot of these other things that you and other people on here are bringing up like things that have gone in her personal life etc, is laughable because it has nothing to do with the legal scope of her complaint and how the University will reply to it etc. It is that simple.

Orso, thank you for explaining this from a legal perspective and having an informed, intelligent and authentic perspective on the whole situation.

:thumb:

 

[fanofzoo]

Orso, thank you for explaining this from a legal perspective and having an informed, intelligent and authentic perspective on the whole situation.

:thumb:

but joe rogen disagrees

 

[Art Spooner]

imagine suing your alma matter... yikes.

Her legacy wasn’t going to be as a failed head coach. It always would have been that of a gifted All American player. Unfortunately, that now changes. Win or lose this lawsuit, she will always be remembered for it and her display of bitterness, warranted or not.

 

[Grizfan-24]

I'm not a lawyer in the least, but based upon what I have come to understand her basis of her title 7 claim is based upon on a set of events that needs to be observed in a vacuum even to be remotely true. At least in how I've read the documents available. Those who are well-versed in the legal profession might have an entirely different take.

Literally you have to remove her dismissal from the events that led up to her non-renewal and do the same with her male counterparts to put the argument on similar footing. I don't know what the legal standard for the claim is, but I can't imagine her claim or the Universities defense of her non-renewal, could possibly taken out of the context of the events that led up to her separation.

I'll be interested to see how this plays and what type of data is provided when the two sides meet for the first time.