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Some Ask a Taboo Question: Is America Overreacting to Coronavirus?

argh! said:
PlayerRep said:
argh! said:
Dutch Lane said:
Arg, I’m a lawyer damn it not a doctor. Lol. My question to you is Trump has been throwing Obama under the bus regarding the covid-19 outbreak. He specifically has stated that he inherited bad “tests” for the covid-19 virus from Obama. My understanding of pandemics is that you can’t develope a test for one until an exposure to the virus has been identified in a person. If that is the case how could Trump have inherited bad tests from Obama if the virus was only discovered and identified in late 2019? Is Trump lying about the bad tests that he couldn’t have inherited from Obama? Thanks

you can't develop a test for a virus without having it's genetic sequence or a high affinity antibody to the virus. you can't have either, or even start to develop a test, until the specific virus has been identified and isolated. a now-shut chinese lab released the sequence on or around january 11th of this year. they are shut because they didn't ask the ccp's permission first, but it did allow for a test to be developed. antibody testing is faster than sequence testing, but takes more time to develop because you need to prove accuracy first. the obama thing is just another trump fiction.

Please give us a cite to the Trump thing you refer to.

two minutes of research, and what i found was a claim by trump blaming obama for procedural rules he claims slowed the test. apparently there were some red-tape issues that was one of the problems slowing the development. not sure why they weren't waived immediately, but that was a time when, according to trump et al, the u.s. had everything under control, and it would all go away.

Again, you need to learn to read. It is true that Trump inherited the CDC and FDA rules and regulations. It is also true that those rules hampered the testing development. I've already posted on this, and am trying to finish my analysis of the subject, being researched mostly from the WaPost.

Trump never said he got a bad test from Obama. You and Dutch need to learn how to read.

You two are the fountain of misinformation.

The rules put CDC in charge of developing the initial new test or tests for new diseases. They have successfully done that in the past. This time they apparently goofed up. Other tests from private labs and companies need FDA approval. That's one of the things that the FDA does. The FDA procedures were eventually changed after Trump et al learned of the problems, and pushed the FDA to fix the problem promptly. Trump deserves credit for that.
 
Dutch Lane said:
argh! said:
mcg said:
PlayerRep said:
How about this?

How about the Dems not spending way too much time trying to impeach Trump in early 2020 and late 2019? Do you think that distracted him, a lot of the White House, a lot of the press, and a lot of Dems and their staff?

How about Obama not loading a bunch of Dem staffers in the White House and NSC right before he left office. These were presumably the people leaking stuff on Trump from Day 1. Maybe he and Bolton/O'Brien wouldn't have cut so many of the NSC staff, had they been less out to get Trump and not focusing on their jobs.

"No, the White House Didn’t ‘Dissolve’ Its Pandemic Response Office"

This is written by the guy in charge of that group.

"Because I led the very directorate assigned that mission, the counterproliferation and biodefense office, for a year and then handed it off to another official who still holds the post, I know the charge is specious."

It is this reorganization that critics have misconstrued or intentionally misrepresented. If anything, the combined directorate was stronger because related expertise could be commingled.

The reduction of force in the NSC has continued since I departed the White House. But it has left the biodefense staff unaffected — perhaps a recognition of the importance of that mission to the president, who, after all, in 2018 issued a presidential memorandum to finally create real accountability in the federal government’s expansive biodefense system."

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/03/17/no_the_white_house_didnt_dissolve_its_pandemic_response_office_142683.html

I'll keep this short. The virus appeared in early January. Trump did nothing other than to declare that the virus was 'under control' and would 'miraculously disappear' thru late march. No orders for PPE or ventilators were placed till mid-march. During this time the ventilators in the national stockpile were not under service contract, thus when they were shipped they didn't work. Wasting that 60 day window (from january thru mid march) has resulted in a chaotic, disorganized, ineffective response from the federal government.

Trumps failure is a not a result of Obama, not a result of impeachment, it is a result of Trump.

the guy who wrote the article greenie quotes, some guy named morrison, is a trump apologist from way back,writing on a conservative website. the person who was the head of the pandemic response group was an admiral zeimer, who was demoted and reassigned. he's the one to ask about what happened.

Arg, I’m a lawyer damn it not a doctor. Lol. My question to you is Trump has been throwing Obama under the bus regarding the covid-19 outbreak. He specifically has stated that he inherited bad “tests” for the covid-19 virus from Obama. My understanding of pandemics is that you can’t develope a test for one until an exposure to the virus has been identified in a person. If that is the case how could Trump have inherited bad tests from Obama if the virus was only discovered and identified in late 2019? Is Trump lying about the bad tests that he couldn’t have inherited from Obama? Thanks

For a lawyer, you sure don't read very well. Trump said no such thing.

"If that is the case how could Trump have inherited bad tests from Obama if the virus was only discovered and identified in late 2019? Is Trump lying about the bad tests that he couldn’t have inherited from Obama?"
 
Regarding the Jan. 31 order to stop travel from China:

"The first case in the United States (US) was identified in Washington state on January 21, 2020. As of January 31, 2020, a total of six positive cases have been reported in the US; five are travel-associated and one is local transmission in the US."

https://dchealth.dc.gov/publication/january-31-2020-update-and-interim-guidance-novel-coronavirus-2019-cov-outbreak

"Note that China and The WHO were still saying that there was no human to human transmission till later in Jan.“Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China,” the organization had said."

WHO declared a pandemic on March 11.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/11/who-declares-the-coronavirus-outbreak-a-pandemic/
 
mcg said:
PlayerRep said:
mcg said:
PlayerRep said:
Interesting on that Chinese lab being shut down.

Again, the WHO tweet on China saying there was no human to human transfer.

WHO declared a "pandemic" on March 11. [For MCG, if WHO couldn't figure out it was a "pandemic" until March 11, who in the heck could have predicted the pandemic in advance of that, or way in the advance of that?]

How about the National Security Council Pandemic Response Team?

How about this?

How about the Dems not spending way too much time trying to impeach Trump in early 2020 and late 2019? Do you think that distracted him, a lot of the White House, a lot of the press, and a lot of Dems and their staff?

How about Obama not loading a bunch of Dem staffers in the White House and NSC right before he left office. These were presumably the people leaking stuff on Trump from Day 1. Maybe he and Bolton/O'Brien wouldn't have cut so many of the NSC staff, had they been less out to get Trump and not focusing on their jobs.

"No, the White House Didn’t ‘Dissolve’ Its Pandemic Response Office"

This is written by the guy in charge of that group.

"Because I led the very directorate assigned that mission, the counterproliferation and biodefense office, for a year and then handed it off to another official who still holds the post, I know the charge is specious."

It is this reorganization that critics have misconstrued or intentionally misrepresented. If anything, the combined directorate was stronger because related expertise could be commingled.

The reduction of force in the NSC has continued since I departed the White House. But it has left the biodefense staff unaffected — perhaps a recognition of the importance of that mission to the president, who, after all, in 2018 issued a presidential memorandum to finally create real accountability in the federal government’s expansive biodefense system."

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/03/17/no_the_white_house_didnt_dissolve_its_pandemic_response_office_142683.html

I'll keep this short. The virus appeared in early January. Trump did nothing other than to declare that the virus was 'under control' and would 'miraculously disappear' thru late march. No orders for PPE or ventilators were placed till mid-march. During this time the ventilators in the national stockpile were not under service contract, thus when they were shipped they didn't work. Wasting that 60 day window (from january thru mid march) has resulted in a chaotic, disorganized, ineffective response from the federal government.

Trumps failure is a not a result of Obama, not a result of impeachment, it is a result of Trump.

Sounds like someone infected with extreme confirmation bias.
 
mcg said:
PlayerRep said:
mcg said:
PlayerRep said:
Interesting on that Chinese lab being shut down.

Again, the WHO tweet on China saying there was no human to human transfer.

WHO declared a "pandemic" on March 11. [For MCG, if WHO couldn't figure out it was a "pandemic" until March 11, who in the heck could have predicted the pandemic in advance of that, or way in the advance of that?]

How about the National Security Council Pandemic Response Team?

How about this?

How about the Dems not spending way too much time trying to impeach Trump in early 2020 and late 2019? Do you think that distracted him, a lot of the White House, a lot of the press, and a lot of Dems and their staff?

How about Obama not loading a bunch of Dem staffers in the White House and NSC right before he left office. These were presumably the people leaking stuff on Trump from Day 1. Maybe he and Bolton/O'Brien wouldn't have cut so many of the NSC staff, had they been less out to get Trump and not focusing on their jobs.

"No, the White House Didn’t ‘Dissolve’ Its Pandemic Response Office"

This is written by the guy in charge of that group.

"Because I led the very directorate assigned that mission, the counterproliferation and biodefense office, for a year and then handed it off to another official who still holds the post, I know the charge is specious."

It is this reorganization that critics have misconstrued or intentionally misrepresented. If anything, the combined directorate was stronger because related expertise could be commingled.

The reduction of force in the NSC has continued since I departed the White House. But it has left the biodefense staff unaffected — perhaps a recognition of the importance of that mission to the president, who, after all, in 2018 issued a presidential memorandum to finally create real accountability in the federal government’s expansive biodefense system."

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/03/17/no_the_white_house_didnt_dissolve_its_pandemic_response_office_142683.html

I'll keep this short. The virus appeared in early January. Trump did nothing other than to declare that the virus was 'under control' and would 'miraculously disappear' thru late march. No orders for PPE or ventilators were placed till mid-march. During this time the ventilators in the national stockpile were not under service contract, thus when they were shipped they didn't work. Wasting that 60 day window (from january thru mid march) has resulted in a chaotic, disorganized, ineffective response from the federal government.

Trumps failure is a not a result of Obama, not a result of impeachment, it is a result of Trump.

Almost all of you just said is false. Look at TCC's post with the dates. Trump did a bunch of stuff, and saved a bunch lives. You, Dutch and argh are a foundation of misinformation.

On N-95 makes and ventilators, the AP says feds ordered them in bulk for the federal stockpile in mid-March. And then the AP says right in its article that N-95 masks were ordered earlier.

Are you saying that hospitals and states can't or don't place orders on their own.

"The U.S. Tried to Build a New Fleet of Ventilators. The Mission Failed.

As the coronavirus spreads, the collapse of the project helps explain America’s acute shortage.

Thirteen years ago, a group of U.S. public health officials came up with a plan to address what they regarded as one of the medical system’s crucial vulnerabilities: a shortage of ventilators."

[Is this Trump's fault too?]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/29/business/coronavirus-us-ventilator-shortage.html
Five years ago, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services tried to plug a crucial hole in its preparations for a global pandemic, signing a $13.8 million contract with a Pennsylvania manufacturer to create a low-cost, portable, easy-to-use ventilator that could be stockpiled for emergencies.

"This past September, with the design of the new Trilogy Evo Universal finally cleared by the Food and Drug Administration, HHS ordered 10,000 of the ventilators for the Strategic National Stockpile at a cost of $3,280 each.

But as the pandemic continues to spread across the globe, there is still not a single Trilogy Evo Universal in the stockpile."

https://www.propublica.org/article/taxpayers-paid-millions-to-design-a-low-cost-ventilator-for-a-pandemic-instead-the-company-is-selling-versions-of-it-overseas-
 
Winter 2019 Montanan magazine has an article on UM landing a $10M Contract (from the National Institutes of Health last semester) to contract to develop a new universal flu vaccine. Article states one such discovery, a synthetic dual-TLR, shows great promise to improve both seasonal and pandemic flu vaccines and could be broadly applicable to other vaccines as well.
 
PlayerRep said:
argh! said:
PlayerRep said:
argh! said:
you can't develop a test for a virus without having it's genetic sequence or a high affinity antibody to the virus. you can't have either, or even start to develop a test, until the specific virus has been identified and isolated. a now-shut chinese lab released the sequence on or around january 11th of this year. they are shut because they didn't ask the ccp's permission first, but it did allow for a test to be developed. antibody testing is faster than sequence testing, but takes more time to develop because you need to prove accuracy first. the obama thing is just another trump fiction.

Please give us a cite to the Trump thing you refer to.

two minutes of research, and what i found was a claim by trump blaming obama for procedural rules he claims slowed the test. apparently there were some red-tape issues that was one of the problems slowing the development. not sure why they weren't waived immediately, but that was a time when, according to trump et al, the u.s. had everything under control, and it would all go away.

Again, you need to learn to read. It is true that Trump inherited the CDC and FDA rules and regulations. It is also true that those rules hampered the testing development. I've already posted on this, and am trying to finish my analysis of the subject, being researched mostly from the WaPost.

Trump never said he got a bad test from Obama. You and Dutch need to learn how to read.

You two are the fountain of misinformation.

The rules put CDC in charge of developing the initial new test or tests for new diseases. They have successfully done that in the past. This time they apparently goofed up. Other tests from private labs and companies need FDA approval. That's one of the things that the FDA does. The FDA procedures were eventually changed after Trump et al learned of the problems, and pushed the FDA to fix the problem promptly. Trump deserves credit for that.

you need to learn to read, and to get over yourself. i just answered a question about test development. in the next post i said all i could find was a complaint about red tape, and wondered why it wasn't removed earlier. i didn't say the claim about 'bad tests' was accurate, or blame trump, other than saying his blaming obama is misinformation. those rules, whatever they were, were obviously put in place before any pandemic. there are undoubtedly several who could have made the moves to have the rules removed when it became obvious they were slowing development down. you are just reading stuff into my posts because you are hell bent on 'proving' everyone is out to get trump. slow down old man, that dementia is going to get you far before any virus.
 
PlayerRep said:
mcg said:
PlayerRep said:
mcg said:
How about the National Security Council Pandemic Response Team?

How about this?

How about the Dems not spending way too much time trying to impeach Trump in early 2020 and late 2019? Do you think that distracted him, a lot of the White House, a lot of the press, and a lot of Dems and their staff?

How about Obama not loading a bunch of Dem staffers in the White House and NSC right before he left office. These were presumably the people leaking stuff on Trump from Day 1. Maybe he and Bolton/O'Brien wouldn't have cut so many of the NSC staff, had they been less out to get Trump and not focusing on their jobs.

"No, the White House Didn’t ‘Dissolve’ Its Pandemic Response Office"

This is written by the guy in charge of that group.

"Because I led the very directorate assigned that mission, the counterproliferation and biodefense office, for a year and then handed it off to another official who still holds the post, I know the charge is specious."

It is this reorganization that critics have misconstrued or intentionally misrepresented. If anything, the combined directorate was stronger because related expertise could be commingled.

The reduction of force in the NSC has continued since I departed the White House. But it has left the biodefense staff unaffected — perhaps a recognition of the importance of that mission to the president, who, after all, in 2018 issued a presidential memorandum to finally create real accountability in the federal government’s expansive biodefense system."

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/03/17/no_the_white_house_didnt_dissolve_its_pandemic_response_office_142683.html

I'll keep this short. The virus appeared in early January. Trump did nothing other than to declare that the virus was 'under control' and would 'miraculously disappear' thru late march. No orders for PPE or ventilators were placed till mid-march. During this time the ventilators in the national stockpile were not under service contract, thus when they were shipped they didn't work. Wasting that 60 day window (from january thru mid march) has resulted in a chaotic, disorganized, ineffective response from the federal government.

Trumps failure is a not a result of Obama, not a result of impeachment, it is a result of Trump.

Almost all of you just said is false. Look at TCC's post with the dates. Trump did a bunch of stuff, and saved a bunch lives. You, Dutch and argh are a foundation of misinformation.

On N-95 makes and ventilators, the AP says feds ordered them in bulk for the federal stockpile in mid-March. And then the AP says right in its article that N-95 masks were ordered earlier.

Are you saying that hospitals and states can't or don't place orders on their own.

"The U.S. Tried to Build a New Fleet of Ventilators. The Mission Failed.

As the coronavirus spreads, the collapse of the project helps explain America’s acute shortage.

Thirteen years ago, a group of U.S. public health officials came up with a plan to address what they regarded as one of the medical system’s crucial vulnerabilities: a shortage of ventilators."

[Is this Trump's fault too?]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/29/business/coronavirus-us-ventilator-shortage.html
Five years ago, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services tried to plug a crucial hole in its preparations for a global pandemic, signing a $13.8 million contract with a Pennsylvania manufacturer to create a low-cost, portable, easy-to-use ventilator that could be stockpiled for emergencies.

"This past September, with the design of the new Trilogy Evo Universal finally cleared by the Food and Drug Administration, HHS ordered 10,000 of the ventilators for the Strategic National Stockpile at a cost of $3,280 each.

But as the pandemic continues to spread across the globe, there is still not a single Trilogy Evo Universal in the stockpile."

https://www.propublica.org/article/taxpayers-paid-millions-to-design-a-low-cost-ventilator-for-a-pandemic-instead-the-company-is-selling-versions-of-it-overseas-

totally agree that the ventilator issue was a clusterfuck. as for obama being at fault for test development slowdowns:
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/trumps-misplaced-blame-on-obama-for-coronavirus-tests/

maybe you ought to know what you are talking about before you accuse me of intentionally spewing misinformation.
 
argh! said:
PlayerRep said:
argh! said:
PlayerRep said:
Please give us a cite to the Trump thing you refer to.

two minutes of research, and what i found was a claim by trump blaming obama for procedural rules he claims slowed the test. apparently there were some red-tape issues that was one of the problems slowing the development. not sure why they weren't waived immediately, but that was a time when, according to trump et al, the u.s. had everything under control, and it would all go away.

Again, you need to learn to read. It is true that Trump inherited the CDC and FDA rules and regulations. It is also true that those rules hampered the testing development. I've already posted on this, and am trying to finish my analysis of the subject, being researched mostly from the WaPost.

Trump never said he got a bad test from Obama. You and Dutch need to learn how to read.

You two are the fountain of misinformation.

The rules put CDC in charge of developing the initial new test or tests for new diseases. They have successfully done that in the past. This time they apparently goofed up. Other tests from private labs and companies need FDA approval. That's one of the things that the FDA does. The FDA procedures were eventually changed after Trump et al learned of the problems, and pushed the FDA to fix the problem promptly. Trump deserves credit for that.

you need to learn to read, and to get over yourself. i just answered a question about test development. in the next post i said all i could find was a complaint about red tape, and wondered why it wasn't removed earlier. i didn't say the claim about 'bad tests' was accurate, or blame trump, other than saying his blaming obama is misinformation. those rules, whatever they were, were obviously put in place before any pandemic. there are undoubtedly several who could have made the moves to have the rules removed when it became obvious they were slowing development down. you are just reading stuff into my posts because you are hell bent on 'proving' everyone is out to get trump. slow down old man, that dementia is going to get you far before any virus.

As I said, learn to read more carefully. Also, try to remember what you.

Dutch said this: "Is Trump lying about the bad tests that he couldn’t have inherited from Obama?"

You/argh then said this right over the top of his comment: " the obama thing is just another trump fiction."

You endorsed his incorrect comment. What "Obama thing" were you referring to?

I deal in facts, accuracy and precision, on subjects like this. There is noting political in my comments. Trump, and everyone, should be treated fairly. The facts should be used. I don't like Trump.
 
argh! said:
PlayerRep said:
argh! said:
PlayerRep said:
Please give us a cite to the Trump thing you refer to.

two minutes of research, and what i found was a claim by trump blaming obama for procedural rules he claims slowed the test. apparently there were some red-tape issues that was one of the problems slowing the development. not sure why they weren't waived immediately, but that was a time when, according to trump et al, the u.s. had everything under control, and it would all go away.

Again, you need to learn to read. It is true that Trump inherited the CDC and FDA rules and regulations. It is also true that those rules hampered the testing development. I've already posted on this, and am trying to finish my analysis of the subject, being researched mostly from the WaPost.

Trump never said he got a bad test from Obama. You and Dutch need to learn how to read.

You two are the fountain of misinformation.

The rules put CDC in charge of developing the initial new test or tests for new diseases. They have successfully done that in the past. This time they apparently goofed up. Other tests from private labs and companies need FDA approval. That's one of the things that the FDA does. The FDA procedures were eventually changed after Trump et al learned of the problems, and pushed the FDA to fix the problem promptly. Trump deserves credit for that.

you need to learn to read, and to get over yourself. i just answered a question about test development. in the next post i said all i could find was a complaint about red tape, and wondered why it wasn't removed earlier. i didn't say the claim about 'bad tests' was accurate, or blame trump, other than saying his blaming obama is misinformation. those rules, whatever they were, were obviously put in place before any pandemic. there are undoubtedly several who could have made the moves to have the rules removed when it became obvious they were slowing development down. you are just reading stuff into my posts because you are hell bent on 'proving' everyone is out to get trump. slow down old man, that dementia is going to get you far before any virus.

So you are in agreement Trump inherited the problem of "Red Tape "
I guess he needed his magic wand instead of going through government bureaucracy to cut the red tape .
"Damned if does , damned if he doesn't "
Fuck it let's just prosecute him for crimes against humanity.., oh wait . Someone has thought of that already sssmmh
 
argh! said:
PlayerRep said:
mcg said:
PlayerRep said:
How about this?

How about the Dems not spending way too much time trying to impeach Trump in early 2020 and late 2019? Do you think that distracted him, a lot of the White House, a lot of the press, and a lot of Dems and their staff?

How about Obama not loading a bunch of Dem staffers in the White House and NSC right before he left office. These were presumably the people leaking stuff on Trump from Day 1. Maybe he and Bolton/O'Brien wouldn't have cut so many of the NSC staff, had they been less out to get Trump and not focusing on their jobs.

"No, the White House Didn’t ‘Dissolve’ Its Pandemic Response Office"

This is written by the guy in charge of that group.

"Because I led the very directorate assigned that mission, the counterproliferation and biodefense office, for a year and then handed it off to another official who still holds the post, I know the charge is specious."

It is this reorganization that critics have misconstrued or intentionally misrepresented. If anything, the combined directorate was stronger because related expertise could be commingled.

The reduction of force in the NSC has continued since I departed the White House. But it has left the biodefense staff unaffected — perhaps a recognition of the importance of that mission to the president, who, after all, in 2018 issued a presidential memorandum to finally create real accountability in the federal government’s expansive biodefense system."

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/03/17/no_the_white_house_didnt_dissolve_its_pandemic_response_office_142683.html

I'll keep this short. The virus appeared in early January. Trump did nothing other than to declare that the virus was 'under control' and would 'miraculously disappear' thru late march. No orders for PPE or ventilators were placed till mid-march. During this time the ventilators in the national stockpile were not under service contract, thus when they were shipped they didn't work. Wasting that 60 day window (from january thru mid march) has resulted in a chaotic, disorganized, ineffective response from the federal government.

Trumps failure is a not a result of Obama, not a result of impeachment, it is a result of Trump.

Almost all of you just said is false. Look at TCC's post with the dates. Trump did a bunch of stuff, and saved a bunch lives. You, Dutch and argh are a foundation of misinformation.

On N-95 makes and ventilators, the AP says feds ordered them in bulk for the federal stockpile in mid-March. And then the AP says right in its article that N-95 masks were ordered earlier.

Are you saying that hospitals and states can't or don't place orders on their own.

"The U.S. Tried to Build a New Fleet of Ventilators. The Mission Failed.

As the coronavirus spreads, the collapse of the project helps explain America’s acute shortage.

Thirteen years ago, a group of U.S. public health officials came up with a plan to address what they regarded as one of the medical system’s crucial vulnerabilities: a shortage of ventilators."

[Is this Trump's fault too?]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/29/business/coronavirus-us-ventilator-shortage.html
Five years ago, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services tried to plug a crucial hole in its preparations for a global pandemic, signing a $13.8 million contract with a Pennsylvania manufacturer to create a low-cost, portable, easy-to-use ventilator that could be stockpiled for emergencies.

"This past September, with the design of the new Trilogy Evo Universal finally cleared by the Food and Drug Administration, HHS ordered 10,000 of the ventilators for the Strategic National Stockpile at a cost of $3,280 each.

But as the pandemic continues to spread across the globe, there is still not a single Trilogy Evo Universal in the stockpile."

https://www.propublica.org/article/taxpayers-paid-millions-to-design-a-low-cost-ventilator-for-a-pandemic-instead-the-company-is-selling-versions-of-it-overseas-

totally agree that the ventilator issue was a [#]f###. as for obama being at fault for test development slowdowns:
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/trumps-misplaced-blame-on-obama-for-coronavirus-tests/

maybe you ought to know what you are talking about before you accuse me of intentionally spewing misinformation.

AGAIN, learn to read.

I never said anything about the ventilator issues being an Obama problem, other than posting links to some articles. I just said you and Dutch were wrong on saying that Trump said he inherited bad tests from Obama. He didn't. Now, even your seem to admit that.

I didn't accuse you of "intentiallly" spewing misinformation. IU just said you and Dutch were wrong.

Note that fact checks, including the one you cited, are notoriously not fact checks anymore. They are largely done by people with an agenda. I will look at this one more carefully later, as it fits with the analysis of the subject that I am trying to do. The one that started with a good Wa Post article.
 
TCCGRIZ said:
argh! said:
PlayerRep said:
argh! said:
two minutes of research, and what i found was a claim by trump blaming obama for procedural rules he claims slowed the test. apparently there were some red-tape issues that was one of the problems slowing the development. not sure why they weren't waived immediately, but that was a time when, according to trump et al, the u.s. had everything under control, and it would all go away.

Again, you need to learn to read. It is true that Trump inherited the CDC and FDA rules and regulations. It is also true that those rules hampered the testing development. I've already posted on this, and am trying to finish my analysis of the subject, being researched mostly from the WaPost.

Trump never said he got a bad test from Obama. You and Dutch need to learn how to read.

You two are the fountain of misinformation.

The rules put CDC in charge of developing the initial new test or tests for new diseases. They have successfully done that in the past. This time they apparently goofed up. Other tests from private labs and companies need FDA approval. That's one of the things that the FDA does. The FDA procedures were eventually changed after Trump et al learned of the problems, and pushed the FDA to fix the problem promptly. Trump deserves credit for that.

you need to learn to read, and to get over yourself. i just answered a question about test development. in the next post i said all i could find was a complaint about red tape, and wondered why it wasn't removed earlier. i didn't say the claim about 'bad tests' was accurate, or blame trump, other than saying his blaming obama is misinformation. those rules, whatever they were, were obviously put in place before any pandemic. there are undoubtedly several who could have made the moves to have the rules removed when it became obvious they were slowing development down. you are just reading stuff into my posts because you are hell bent on 'proving' everyone is out to get trump. slow down old man, that dementia is going to get you far before any virus.

So you are in agreement Trump inherited the problem of "Red Tape "
I guess he needed his magic wand instead of going through government bureaucracy to cut the red tape .
"Damned if does , damned if he doesn't "
[#]f### it let's just prosecute him for crimes against humanity.., oh wait . Someone has thought of that already sssmmh

yes, there was too much red tape. it has been that way a long time. my only statements regarding trump have been that blaming obama is not accurate, and that his administration should have been more on top of things in january, when it was obvious the chinese were lying about a number of issues regarding the virus, including human-to-human transmission. trump has been saying the ccp lies all the time forever, did he just forget about it? you guys are hell-bent on putting me with the blame trump trump for everything crowd, when i have long held that they are as over-the-top as the 'blame obama for everything ' crowd. hell, i've agreed with pretty much everything you and greenie have said in this thread. for instance, i think greenie lumped me in with the pro-impeachment crowd. no i didn't, i said it was a waste of time, given the make-up of the senate.
 
PlayerRep said:
argh! said:
PlayerRep said:
mcg said:
I'll keep this short. The virus appeared in early January. Trump did nothing other than to declare that the virus was 'under control' and would 'miraculously disappear' thru late march. No orders for PPE or ventilators were placed till mid-march. During this time the ventilators in the national stockpile were not under service contract, thus when they were shipped they didn't work. Wasting that 60 day window (from january thru mid march) has resulted in a chaotic, disorganized, ineffective response from the federal government.

Trumps failure is a not a result of Obama, not a result of impeachment, it is a result of Trump.

Almost all of you just said is false. Look at TCC's post with the dates. Trump did a bunch of stuff, and saved a bunch lives. You, Dutch and argh are a foundation of misinformation.

On N-95 makes and ventilators, the AP says feds ordered them in bulk for the federal stockpile in mid-March. And then the AP says right in its article that N-95 masks were ordered earlier.

Are you saying that hospitals and states can't or don't place orders on their own.

"The U.S. Tried to Build a New Fleet of Ventilators. The Mission Failed.

As the coronavirus spreads, the collapse of the project helps explain America’s acute shortage.

Thirteen years ago, a group of U.S. public health officials came up with a plan to address what they regarded as one of the medical system’s crucial vulnerabilities: a shortage of ventilators."

[Is this Trump's fault too?]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/29/business/coronavirus-us-ventilator-shortage.html
Five years ago, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services tried to plug a crucial hole in its preparations for a global pandemic, signing a $13.8 million contract with a Pennsylvania manufacturer to create a low-cost, portable, easy-to-use ventilator that could be stockpiled for emergencies.

"This past September, with the design of the new Trilogy Evo Universal finally cleared by the Food and Drug Administration, HHS ordered 10,000 of the ventilators for the Strategic National Stockpile at a cost of $3,280 each.

But as the pandemic continues to spread across the globe, there is still not a single Trilogy Evo Universal in the stockpile."

https://www.propublica.org/article/taxpayers-paid-millions-to-design-a-low-cost-ventilator-for-a-pandemic-instead-the-company-is-selling-versions-of-it-overseas-

totally agree that the ventilator issue was a [#]f###. as for obama being at fault for test development slowdowns:
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/trumps-misplaced-blame-on-obama-for-coronavirus-tests/

maybe you ought to know what you are talking about before you accuse me of intentionally spewing misinformation.

AGAIN, learn to read.

I never said anything about the ventilator issues being an Obama problem, other than posting links to some articles. I just said you and Dutch were wrong on saying that Trump said he inherited bad tests from Obama. He didn't. Now, even your seem to admit that.

I didn't accuse you of "intentiallly" spewing misinformation. IU just said you and Dutch were wrong.

Note that fact checks, including the one you cited, are notoriously not fact checks anymore. They are largely done by people with an agenda. I will look at this one more carefully later, as it fits with the analysis of the subject that I am trying to do. The one that started with a good Wa Post article.

for the millionth time, greenie, i never said what dutch claimed was accurate, just answered his question. show me where i agreed that he was right about the claim that obama left him with bad tests. you can't, because i didn't.

take this for what it's worth: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/mar/31/donald-trump/trump-blames-past-administrations-flawed-covid-19-/

the key quote, which i'm not saying is right because i didn't hear it, is claimed to be this: ""We took over a dead, barren system," Trump said. "That didn’t work, because when CDC first looked at their test, the biggest problem they had is, the test didn’t work. That wasn’t from us. That’s been there a long time. Now we have the best tests in the world."
 
2 things;

I thought y'all were trying to keep politics out of this. We are all in this together and none of our leaders know how to react because this is new.

Shout out to TCC from Butte, that has to be an egriz record for longest post. My first marriage didn't take that long.

From the Great White North,
Hunker down and Drink up
 
SaskGriz said:
2 things;

I thought y'all were trying to keep politics out of this. We are all in this together and none of our leaders know how to react because this is new.

Shout out to TCC from Butte, that has to be an egriz record for longest post. My first marriage didn't take that long.

From the Great White North,
Hunker down and Drink up

I copied and pasted it , from my phone no less .
Not sure it was going to work .
 
This appears to be a more complete and honest fact check on the aspects of the testing that are being discussed today. My quick summary: Regs from prior administrations did slow things down. Obama proposed more stringent testing, but they weren't adopted. Trump is wrong, at least on this point. Crenshaw was consistently right and accurate. Biden was dead wrong. The FDA started sterling the approval process on Feb. 29.

"In a March 13 tweet, President Donald Trump said the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention studied its testing system for decades but wasn’t prepared for a large scale pandemic, an issue that was complicated by policy changes made by former President Barack Obama.

U.S. Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., retweeted Trump’s remark and added his own comment: “Trump is once again trying to blame the previous administration for the number of tests available. This is his #DailyLie.”

U.S. Rep. Dan Crenshaw, R-Houston, retweeted Schumer’s remark and said: “It’s not Obama’s fault and it’s not Trump’s fault. We have stringent FDA regulations, long in place, that created barriers to the private industry creating a test quickly.”

We also looked at a Mostly False claim from Democrat Joe Biden about the Trump administration rejecting tests from the World Health Organization (they were never offered).

We wanted to dig deeper into Crenshaw’s claim, which attributes the delays in the availability of widespread testing to Food and Drug Administration regulations

Justin Discigil, spokesman for Crenshaw, pointed to articles from ProPublica, the New Yorker, The Atlantic and the Washington Post, all of which highlighted the role of FDA regulations in limiting the availability of widespread testing.

On Feb. 29, the FDA announced a change in the process: Labs would still need to seek the agency’s approval for their tests, but the labs could begin testing while waiting for the official green light. [Note that these labs were already developing tests, and could sue them immediately. The US had 22 reported cases on Feb. 29.]

On Monday, (three days after Crenshaw made his claim) the FDA announced another change to its policies and put state officials in charge of coronavirus tests developed by laboratories in their states, meaning labs would engage with state officials and not the FDA. It also removes the requirement for these labs to apply for an Emergency Use Authorization for their tests.

The changes also expand which labs and manufacturers are included in FDA guidelines and which kinds of tests can be developed.

Crenshaw said in a tweet that longstanding FDA regulations “created barriers to the private industry creating a test quickly” for the coronavirus.

Crenshaw’s statement is accurate.

https://www.statesman.com/news/20200320/fact-check-did-fda-regulations-slow-testing-for-coronavirus
 
TCCGRIZ said:
SaskGriz said:
2 things;

I thought y'all were trying to keep politics out of this. We are all in this together and none of our leaders know how to react because this is new.

Shout out to TCC from Butte, that has to be an egriz record for longest post. My first marriage didn't take that long.

From the Great White North,
Hunker down and Drink up

I copied and pasted it , from my phone no less .
Not sure it was going to work .
That's impressive, you're doing work!
 
argh! said:
TCCGRIZ said:
argh! said:
PlayerRep said:
Again, you need to learn to read. It is true that Trump inherited the CDC and FDA rules and regulations. It is also true that those rules hampered the testing development. I've already posted on this, and am trying to finish my analysis of the subject, being researched mostly from the WaPost.

Trump never said he got a bad test from Obama. You and Dutch need to learn how to read.

You two are the fountain of misinformation.

The rules put CDC in charge of developing the initial new test or tests for new diseases. They have successfully done that in the past. This time they apparently goofed up. Other tests from private labs and companies need FDA approval. That's one of the things that the FDA does. The FDA procedures were eventually changed after Trump et al learned of the problems, and pushed the FDA to fix the problem promptly. Trump deserves credit for that.

you need to learn to read, and to get over yourself. i just answered a question about test development. in the next post i said all i could find was a complaint about red tape, and wondered why it wasn't removed earlier. i didn't say the claim about 'bad tests' was accurate, or blame trump, other than saying his blaming obama is misinformation. those rules, whatever they were, were obviously put in place before any pandemic. there are undoubtedly several who could have made the moves to have the rules removed when it became obvious they were slowing development down. you are just reading stuff into my posts because you are hell bent on 'proving' everyone is out to get trump. slow down old man, that dementia is going to get you far before any virus.

So you are in agreement Trump inherited the problem of "Red Tape "
I guess he needed his magic wand instead of going through government bureaucracy to cut the red tape .
"Damned if does , damned if he doesn't "
[#]f### it let's just prosecute him for crimes against humanity.., oh wait . Someone has thought of that already sssmmh

yes, there was too much red tape. it has been that way a long time. my only statements regarding trump have been that blaming obama is not accurate, and that his administration should have been more on top of things in january, when it was obvious the chinese were lying about a number of issues regarding the virus, including human-to-human transmission. trump has been saying the ccp lies all the time forever, did he just forget about it? you guys are hell-bent on putting me with the blame trump trump for everything crowd, when i have long held that they are as over-the-top as the 'blame obama for everything ' crowd. hell, i've agreed with pretty much everything you and greenie have said in this thread. for instance, i think greenie lumped me in with the pro-impeachment crowd. no i didn't, i said it was a waste of time, given the make-up of the senate.

I have never lumped you with the pro impeachment crowd. I have not done much with regard to you lately, other than to say that you endorsed Dutch's incorrect claim that Trump said he inherited bad tests from Obama. He didn't say that. If you don't want me to blame you for stuff like that, be more precise in what you write.
 
For a lawyer, you sure don't read very well. Trump said no such thing.

"If that is the case how could Trump have inherited bad tests from Obama if the virus was only discovered and identified in late 2019? Is Trump lying about the bad tests that he couldn’t have inherited from Obama?"
[/quote]

Actually I read quite well thanks, the real question is how well do you? Go ahead and try to not only read but also comprehend the words that Trump was quoted as saying about him inheriting bad tests from Obama if you are able and then get back to me with your gracious apologies.

April 1, 2020
The Intercept
By Robert Mackey

"TRUMP LIES ABOUT CUTTING WHITEHOUSE PANDEMIC TEAM TO DODGE FOX NEWS

DONALD TRUMP’S LATEST campaign rally disguised as a coronavirus task force briefing took a remarkable turn on Wednesday when he was stunned by a tough question from, of all people, John Roberts of Fox News.

Trump was sailing along, singing his own praises (“Did you know I was number one on Facebook?“) and denying any responsibility for the catastrophe when Roberts asked the president about the massive blunder of disbanding the White House pandemic preparedness team set up by his predecessor, former President Barack Obama.

Roberts raised the subject after Trump had trotted out his now familiar, if nonsensical, excuse of blaming Obama for his own administration’s abject failure to test Americans in sufficient numbers for the new coronavirus which emerged in China four months ago.

“Remember this, we inherited — the word is we inherited — bad tests,” Trump claimed, absurdly, of testing for a virus that did not exist when Obama left office three years ago.

“We really inherited bad tests, these are horrible tests,” Trump added, disavowing tests which were, in fact, created in January by the Centers for Disease Control under the leadership of a director he appointed.

That led Roberts to observe that officials from the previous administration have blamed the federal government’s slow response to the Covid-19 outbreak on the fact that Trump’s White House dissolved the National Security Council directorate for global health security and biodefense, which was dedicated to preparing for pandemics, in 2018.

“You have talked about the failings of the Obama administration, in leaving you with empty shelves and no plans,” Roberts began, uncritically repeating Trump’s false claims that he bears no responsibility for the poor state of the national stockpile of medical equipment he has overseen for three years. “They have said you got rid of the pandemic office in the National Security Council –” he added, before being cut off by Trump.

“We didn’t do that. That turned out to be a false story,” Trump claimed, falsely. “What are you, working for CNN?” the president asked sarcastically.

Trump couldn’t handle it.

“No, no, no,” Roberts replied, retreating quickly. “I’m pointing out what they have said, and what you have said, that’s all.”

“I thought you were with Fox,” Trump cut in. “But Fox isn’t so easy, either, don’t kid yourself,” the president said, apparently forgetting that it is supposed to be a secret that the network’s role is to go easy on him and refrain from criticizing his months-long failure to prepare for the pandemic.

As Roberts objected — “It’s not about Fox or CNN” — Trump cut him off again. “Look John, let me tell you something. You know that’s a false story,” the president insisted.

Trump appeared to be affronted that the Fox correspondent had not, like many of his supporters, simply accepted as an article of faith claims by a former national security staffer, Tim Morrison, who argued last month that even though the global health security team was, in fact, disbanded, a new NSC unit with a combined responsibility for arms control and biodefense was a perfectly adequate replacement. Morrison, a Republican defense expert with a long record of undermining arms control agreements but no experience in public health, led the new counterproliferation team that was nominally charged with the very different job of preparing to respond to a pandemic.

“What you just said is a false story,” Trump said. “This doctor,” he continued, gesturing to Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation’s top infectious diseases expert, “knows it better than anybody.”

By suggesting that Fauci would back him up on his false claim that the office was not disbanded, Trump briefly skated onto some very thin ice. In testimony to Congress just three weeks ago, the doctor was asked by Rep. Gerald Connolly, a Virginia Democrat, if it had been a mistake “to dismantle the office within the National Security Council charged with global health and security?”

Asked on March 11 if it was a mistake to dismantle the NSC pandemic preparedness office, Dr. Fauci said: “I wouldn’t necessarily characterize it as a mistake. I would say we worked very well with that office. It would be nice if the office was still there.”

Connolly was one of at least five Democrats in Congress who had written to the White House in 2018 to sound the alarm about the downgrading of pandemic preparedness when the NSC office was shuttered and its director, Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer, was let go by the White House, just as the world was commemorating the 100th anniversary of the 1918 flu pandemic. “We fear these recent decisions will leave the United States vulnerable to pandemics and commit us to a strategy of triage should one occur,” Connolly and his colleague Rep. Ami Bera wrote to Trump’s national security adviser, John Bolton, at the time.

Rep. Elliot Engel also expressed his concerns publicly in a May 14, 2018 tweet, as the CNN reporter Andrew Kaczynski noted on Thursday. Sen. Sherrod Brown wrote to Trump four days later to demand that he put someone in charge of “preparing for the next pandemic threat.”

Trump was asked by Yamiche Alcindor why did you shut down the pandemic office in the White House. Trump first calls it a "nasty question." Then says someone else shut it down. "I don't know anything about it."

That same day, Sens. Elizabeth Warren and Patty Murray wrote an urgent letter to Trump’s then-national security adviser, John Bolton, demanding a staff-level briefing on how planning for pandemic response would be carried out without the office. As Warren explained to David Corn of Mother Jones this week, Bolton refused to provide the briefing or to answer the six specific questions they asked in writing.

Before Roberts could call Trump’s bluff by asking Fauci to comment, the president scolded the correspondent once more — “You shouldn’t be repeating a story that you know is false” — and quickly ended the exchange by calling on another reporter to ask a question.

At that moment, Trump was on the ropes, vulnerable to having his lie exposed if the reporter he called on had simply followed up on the question from Roberts by asking Fauci to set the record straight. But reporters in the White House briefing room are not known for that kind of cooperation, and Trump was let off the hook by a question on another topic.

Two weeks ago, when Trump was asked at a previous briefing about cutting the pandemic preparedness team, he said he knew nothing about it, and claimed to have no idea if it had even happened. His professed ignorance of such a major decision prompted speculation about whether he had even been consulted, and, if not, what role he plays inside his own administration.

In recent weeks, Trump has also professed ignorance about the looming threat of a global pandemic — saying repeatedly that no one could have imagined such a terrifying possibility. In fact, the consequences of shuttering the pandemic office were clear to many observers at the time. “When the next pandemic occurs (and make no mistake, it will) and the federal government is unable to respond in a coordinated and effective fashion to protect the lives of US citizens and others, this decision by John Bolton and Donald Trump will be why,” Stephen Schwartz of the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists tweeted on May 10, 2018.

In testimony to Congress in 2018, Fauci said that he and other experts had indeed imagined just such a thing. “When you have a respiratory virus that can be spread by droplets and aerosol and… there’s a degree of morbidity associated with that, you can have a catastrophe,” Fauci testified. “The one that we always talk about is the 1918 pandemic, which killed between 50 and 100 million people,” he added. “Influenza first, or something like influenza, is the one that keeps me up at night.”

While Fauci has earned praise, and threats, for his willingness to gently correct Trump on the science of the coronavirus response at the briefings, some observers have urged him to go much further. Watching the daily briefing on Tuesday, the musician and actor Stevie Van Zandt erupted on Twitter when Fauci refused to criticize Trump for failing to urge governors of states that have not issued stay at home orders to do so."

[Updated: Thursday, April 2, 1:57 p.m. EDT
This article was updated to add information about warnings five Democrats in Congress sent to the Trump White House in May, 2018 about the potential dangers of eliminating the pandemic preparedness office of the National Security Council.]

Go to Fox and watch the questions and answer part of the presser with John Roberts and Trump, its really surreal and disturbing that Trump has no fucking clue what he is talking about so he just lies and lies and lies. It would be hilarious if only thousands of people weren't dying and our country and the world wasn't looking for him to lead us out of this crisis.

So you boldly stated I "spew misinformation" on the board. Care to site any examples? I'll wait smart guy. :thumb:
 

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