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Some Ask a Taboo Question: Is America Overreacting to Coronavirus?
- Thread starter PlayerRep
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MikeyGriz
Well-known member
As I posted on another thread:
Meanwhile, influenza, for which we have a vaccine, has killed twice as many people in the US this year(and every year) and there is no talk of social distancing, shutting down schools or businesses, straining medical resources, etc. Financial markets don't crash, store shelves don't run bare, state boundaries don't close. Why the disparate reactions?
Meanwhile, influenza, for which we have a vaccine, has killed twice as many people in the US this year(and every year) and there is no talk of social distancing, shutting down schools or businesses, straining medical resources, etc. Financial markets don't crash, store shelves don't run bare, state boundaries don't close. Why the disparate reactions?
MikeyGriz said:
Damnit Mikey I’m a lawyer not an epidemiologist for gods sakes. Ok so let me try to answer your right wing taking point question. Well it’s my understanding is it’s because they are different, ones a pandemic and the flu is endemic. The Greek “pan” in pandemic means “all” the people and “epi” means “in” or on the people, get it? Easy peasy am I right? the CDC has a great tutorial on this stuff you should totally look it up) :lol: . No my understanding is that we as humans have been exposed to the 3-4 different kinds of yearly flues for decades and humans have built up some immunities to them which have made them less fatal and contagious and more “epi” or more regional.
Humans have not developed any immunity for covid-19 yet because it was just crossed over to infect humans from animals in like Novemeber of 2019. Now we have between 12,000-55,000flu related deaths on average in a country of 335,000,000. The Spanish flu, the pandemic in 1918, by way of contrast killed 675,000 when the US had a population of only around 100,000,000. So just do the math a pandemic like the Spanish flu could potentially kill over 2 million people in the US today if it went unchecked. It infected over 1/3 of the entire world population and killed over 50 million in 1918 which is a lot. But then again damnit Mikey I’m a doctor not a tailor. (Dan Aykroyd SNL circa 1974ish?) :lol: Any real doctors or real scientists out there want to educate me and Mikey here? Thanks :thumb:
"Boris Johnson has been moved to intensive care.
Britain’s prime minister, Boris Johnson, who was hospitalized with persistent coronavirus-related symptoms, was moved to intensive care on Monday after his condition worsened, his office said.
Mr. Johnson has asked the foreign secretary, Dominic Raab, to stand in for him if necessary, 10 Downing Street added in a statement, but aides said that Mr. Johnson remained conscious."
To get him closer to a ventilator, if he needs it.
NY Times,
online headline article.
Britain’s prime minister, Boris Johnson, who was hospitalized with persistent coronavirus-related symptoms, was moved to intensive care on Monday after his condition worsened, his office said.
Mr. Johnson has asked the foreign secretary, Dominic Raab, to stand in for him if necessary, 10 Downing Street added in a statement, but aides said that Mr. Johnson remained conscious."
To get him closer to a ventilator, if he needs it.
NY Times,
online headline article.
Dutch Lane said:
Actually I read quite well thanks, the real question is how well do you? Go ahead and try to not only read but also comprehend the words that Trump was quoted as saying about him inheriting bad tests from Obama if you are able and then get back to me with your gracious apologies.
April 1, 2020
The Intercept
By Robert Mackey
"TRUMP LIES ABOUT CUTTING WHITEHOUSE PANDEMIC TEAM TO DODGE FOX NEWS
DONALD TRUMP’S LATEST campaign rally disguised as a coronavirus task force briefing took a remarkable turn on Wednesday when he was stunned by a tough question from, of all people, John Roberts of Fox News.
Trump was sailing along, singing his own praises (“Did you know I was number one on Facebook?“) and denying any responsibility for the catastrophe when Roberts asked the president about the massive blunder of disbanding the White House pandemic preparedness team set up by his predecessor, former President Barack Obama.
Roberts raised the subject after Trump had trotted out his now familiar, if nonsensical, excuse of blaming Obama for his own administration’s abject failure to test Americans in sufficient numbers for the new coronavirus which emerged in China four months ago.
“Remember this, we inherited — the word is we inherited — bad tests,” Trump claimed, absurdly, of testing for a virus that did not exist when Obama left office three years ago.
“We really inherited bad tests, these are horrible tests,” Trump added, disavowing tests which were, in fact, created in January by the Centers for Disease Control under the leadership of a director he appointed.
That led Roberts to observe that officials from the previous administration have blamed the federal government’s slow response to the Covid-19 outbreak on the fact that Trump’s White House dissolved the National Security Council directorate for global health security and biodefense, which was dedicated to preparing for pandemics, in 2018.
“You have talked about the failings of the Obama administration, in leaving you with empty shelves and no plans,” Roberts began, uncritically repeating Trump’s false claims that he bears no responsibility for the poor state of the national stockpile of medical equipment he has overseen for three years. “They have said you got rid of the pandemic office in the National Security Council –” he added, before being cut off by Trump.
“We didn’t do that. That turned out to be a false story,” Trump claimed, falsely. “What are you, working for CNN?” the president asked sarcastically.
Trump couldn’t handle it.
“No, no, no,” Roberts replied, retreating quickly. “I’m pointing out what they have said, and what you have said, that’s all.”
“I thought you were with Fox,” Trump cut in. “But Fox isn’t so easy, either, don’t kid yourself,” the president said, apparently forgetting that it is supposed to be a secret that the network’s role is to go easy on him and refrain from criticizing his months-long failure to prepare for the pandemic.
As Roberts objected — “It’s not about Fox or CNN” — Trump cut him off again. “Look John, let me tell you something. You know that’s a false story,” the president insisted.
Trump appeared to be affronted that the Fox correspondent had not, like many of his supporters, simply accepted as an article of faith claims by a former national security staffer, Tim Morrison, who argued last month that even though the global health security team was, in fact, disbanded, a new NSC unit with a combined responsibility for arms control and biodefense was a perfectly adequate replacement. Morrison, a Republican defense expert with a long record of undermining arms control agreements but no experience in public health, led the new counterproliferation team that was nominally charged with the very different job of preparing to respond to a pandemic.
“What you just said is a false story,” Trump said. “This doctor,” he continued, gesturing to Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation’s top infectious diseases expert, “knows it better than anybody.”
By suggesting that Fauci would back him up on his false claim that the office was not disbanded, Trump briefly skated onto some very thin ice. In testimony to Congress just three weeks ago, the doctor was asked by Rep. Gerald Connolly, a Virginia Democrat, if it had been a mistake “to dismantle the office within the National Security Council charged with global health and security?”
Asked on March 11 if it was a mistake to dismantle the NSC pandemic preparedness office, Dr. Fauci said: “I wouldn’t necessarily characterize it as a mistake. I would say we worked very well with that office. It would be nice if the office was still there.”
Connolly was one of at least five Democrats in Congress who had written to the White House in 2018 to sound the alarm about the downgrading of pandemic preparedness when the NSC office was shuttered and its director, Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer, was let go by the White House, just as the world was commemorating the 100th anniversary of the 1918 flu pandemic. “We fear these recent decisions will leave the United States vulnerable to pandemics and commit us to a strategy of triage should one occur,” Connolly and his colleague Rep. Ami Bera wrote to Trump’s national security adviser, John Bolton, at the time.
Rep. Elliot Engel also expressed his concerns publicly in a May 14, 2018 tweet, as the CNN reporter Andrew Kaczynski noted on Thursday. Sen. Sherrod Brown wrote to Trump four days later to demand that he put someone in charge of “preparing for the next pandemic threat.”
Trump was asked by Yamiche Alcindor why did you shut down the pandemic office in the White House. Trump first calls it a "nasty question." Then says someone else shut it down. "I don't know anything about it."
That same day, Sens. Elizabeth Warren and Patty Murray wrote an urgent letter to Trump’s then-national security adviser, John Bolton, demanding a staff-level briefing on how planning for pandemic response would be carried out without the office. As Warren explained to David Corn of Mother Jones this week, Bolton refused to provide the briefing or to answer the six specific questions they asked in writing.
Before Roberts could call Trump’s bluff by asking Fauci to comment, the president scolded the correspondent once more — “You shouldn’t be repeating a story that you know is false” — and quickly ended the exchange by calling on another reporter to ask a question.
At that moment, Trump was on the ropes, vulnerable to having his lie exposed if the reporter he called on had simply followed up on the question from Roberts by asking Fauci to set the record straight. But reporters in the White House briefing room are not known for that kind of cooperation, and Trump was let off the hook by a question on another topic.
Two weeks ago, when Trump was asked at a previous briefing about cutting the pandemic preparedness team, he said he knew nothing about it, and claimed to have no idea if it had even happened. His professed ignorance of such a major decision prompted speculation about whether he had even been consulted, and, if not, what role he plays inside his own administration.
In recent weeks, Trump has also professed ignorance about the looming threat of a global pandemic — saying repeatedly that no one could have imagined such a terrifying possibility. In fact, the consequences of shuttering the pandemic office were clear to many observers at the time. “When the next pandemic occurs (and make no mistake, it will) and the federal government is unable to respond in a coordinated and effective fashion to protect the lives of US citizens and others, this decision by John Bolton and Donald Trump will be why,” Stephen Schwartz of the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists tweeted on May 10, 2018.
In testimony to Congress in 2018, Fauci said that he and other experts had indeed imagined just such a thing. “When you have a respiratory virus that can be spread by droplets and aerosol and… there’s a degree of morbidity associated with that, you can have a catastrophe,” Fauci testified. “The one that we always talk about is the 1918 pandemic, which killed between 50 and 100 million people,” he added. “Influenza first, or something like influenza, is the one that keeps me up at night.”
While Fauci has earned praise, and threats, for his willingness to gently correct Trump on the science of the coronavirus response at the briefings, some observers have urged him to go much further. Watching the daily briefing on Tuesday, the musician and actor Stevie Van Zandt erupted on Twitter when Fauci refused to criticize Trump for failing to urge governors of states that have not issued stay at home orders to do so."
[Updated: Thursday, April 2, 1:57 p.m. EDT
This article was updated to add information about warnings five Democrats in Congress sent to the Trump White House in May, 2018 about the potential dangers of eliminating the pandemic preparedness office of the National Security Council.]
Go to Fox and watch the questions and answer part of the presser with John Roberts and Trump, its really surreal and disturbing that Trump has no f###[#] clue what he is talking about so he just lies and lies and lies. It would be hilarious if only thousands of people weren't dying and our country and the world wasn't looking for him to lead us out of this crisis.
So you boldly stated I "spew misinformation" on the board. Care to site any examples? I'll wait smart guy. :thumb:
[/quote]
Even if what you cited above from the not so always reliable Intercept, it does not support your prior statement that tests were inherited from Obama. Below is what you said initially above.
"He specifically has stated that he inherited bad “tests” for the covid-19 virus from Obama."
In the full interview, after saying bad test were inherited, really bad tests, he immediately says; "we inherited a very broken SYSTEM". "IT was broken, it was all broken. And we fixed it". Then also says again: "We inherited a very broken SYSTEM."
Look at "IT" was all broken. Are you going to argue that he's meaning the test was all broken?
He didn't mention Obama's name. He was clearly referring to the testing system (and procedure and approvals). He had started by talking about the new Abbott test.
Listen to the relevant part of the interview. See link from the Intercept article:
https://theintercept.com/2020/04/01/trump-lies-cutting-white-house-pandemic-team-dodge-checks-notes-fox-news/
You guys just read headlines of biased articles, or Dem talking points, and don't do your research.
Hey, Dutch. I'm waiting for your response. Where did Trump even mention Obama in that interview. I listened at the interview, several times. You didn't bother.
Also, references to tests followed immediately by testing systems. You know, or should know, Trump is often not precise. He wasn't lying. The liars were the Intercept and its writer, and then you repeated the lies. Yes, I know that Trump seems to lie plenty.
Also, references to tests followed immediately by testing systems. You know, or should know, Trump is often not precise. He wasn't lying. The liars were the Intercept and its writer, and then you repeated the lies. Yes, I know that Trump seems to lie plenty.
1. "Virus Toll in N.Y. Region Shows Signs of Leveling Off:"
On both Sunday and Monday, fewer than 600 deaths from the virus were reported in New York: 594 on Sunday, 599 on Monday, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo said.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/nyregion/coronavirus-new-york-update.html?action=click&pgtype=Article&state=default&module=styln-coronavirus-newyork&variant=show®ion=MID_MAIN_CONTENT&context=storyline_updates_newyork#link-6e84d690
2. "Bill Gates Says Virus Death Toll May Not Reach Experts’ Worst Case
The coronavirus death toll in the U.S. could be “well short” of recent estimates from top health officials if social distancing measures are done properly, billionaire philanthropist Bill Gates said Sunday."
Read in Bloomberg: https://apple.news/ARxieDjVcS9WJp8OxJQOyQA
3. "US sees coronavirus window to push Taiwan's global status
The Trump administration is seizing the opportunity of the coronavirus pandemic to push the cause of Taiwan, long an irritant in U.S. relations with China"
[The US is speaking up regarding Taiwan and making some small moves.]
Read in ABC News: https://apple.news/AVNWGXE93TtW2KFT5MMLzTw
4. "Coronavirus: nearly half a million Chinese companies close in first quarter as pandemic batters economy
More than 460,000 Chinese firms closed permanently in the first quarter as the coronavirus pandemic pummeled the world’s second largest economy, with more than half of them having operated for under three years, corporate registration data shows."
[I believe this is largely from lack of demand.]
South China Morning Post: https://apple.news/ApqPOsmNyTOmwIkldvJellw
On both Sunday and Monday, fewer than 600 deaths from the virus were reported in New York: 594 on Sunday, 599 on Monday, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo said.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/nyregion/coronavirus-new-york-update.html?action=click&pgtype=Article&state=default&module=styln-coronavirus-newyork&variant=show®ion=MID_MAIN_CONTENT&context=storyline_updates_newyork#link-6e84d690
2. "Bill Gates Says Virus Death Toll May Not Reach Experts’ Worst Case
The coronavirus death toll in the U.S. could be “well short” of recent estimates from top health officials if social distancing measures are done properly, billionaire philanthropist Bill Gates said Sunday."
Read in Bloomberg: https://apple.news/ARxieDjVcS9WJp8OxJQOyQA
3. "US sees coronavirus window to push Taiwan's global status
The Trump administration is seizing the opportunity of the coronavirus pandemic to push the cause of Taiwan, long an irritant in U.S. relations with China"
[The US is speaking up regarding Taiwan and making some small moves.]
Read in ABC News: https://apple.news/AVNWGXE93TtW2KFT5MMLzTw
4. "Coronavirus: nearly half a million Chinese companies close in first quarter as pandemic batters economy
More than 460,000 Chinese firms closed permanently in the first quarter as the coronavirus pandemic pummeled the world’s second largest economy, with more than half of them having operated for under three years, corporate registration data shows."
[I believe this is largely from lack of demand.]
South China Morning Post: https://apple.news/ApqPOsmNyTOmwIkldvJellw
"Grocery workers are beginning to die of coronavirus
At least four people – who had worked at Walmart, Trader Joe’s and Giant – have died from covid-19 in recent days, raising questions about whether supermarkets will be able to hire enough new workers to keep their operations running."
"Major supermarket chains are beginning to report their first coronavirus-related employee deaths, leading to store closures and increasing anxiety among grocery workers as the pandemic intensifies across the country.
A Trader Joe’s worker in Scarsdale, N.Y., a greeter at a Giant store in Largo, Md., and two Walmart employees from the same Chicago-area store have died of covid-19 in recent days, the companies confirmed Monday.
Walmart, the nation’s largest grocer, is hiring 150,000 workers, while Kroger is adding more than 10,000. Many are offering an extra $2 an hour and promising masks, gloves and hand sanitizer. But finding workers willing to work on the front lines for little more than the minimum wage could be an increasingly tough sell, according to supermarket analyst Phil Lempert.
“One of the biggest mistakes supermarkets made early on was not allowing employees to wear masks and gloves the way they wanted to,” he said. “They’re starting to become proactive now, but it’s still going to be much tougher to hire hundreds of thousands of new workers. We’re going to start seeing people say, ‘I’ll just stay unemployed instead of risking my life for a temporary job.’ "
Some companies have begun installing plexiglass sneeze guards at cash registers and requiring customers to stand 6 feet apart in line. The country’s two largest grocers, Walmart and Kroger, are beginning to check employees’ temperatures at the beginning of each shift and will provide workers with gloves and masks.
In Maryland, Leilani Jordan, 27, a greeter at the Giant’s Campus Way South store in Largo, died last week.
“She said, ‘Mommy, I’m going to work because no one else is going to help the senior citizens get their groceries,’ ” her mother, Zenobia Shepherd, told The Washington Post. “She only stopped going to work when she could no longer breathe.”
Her last day at work was March 16, according to Giant spokesman Daniel Wolk. Jordan tested positive for the coronavirus in late March and died Wednesday."
[So sad.]
[Costco seems to have good practices. Didn't see hand sanitizer at the door going out, tho. Like at some stores, like ACE. Limited people in store at a time. No more than 2 on one membership card. Wiping down of carts. Requirement to take a cart, for distancing reasons. Seemed odd to me. Spacing in all lines. Plexiglass at checkout. Groceries unloaded and bagged by Costco workers. Lots of masks for workers, or maybe all. No food samples.]
Read the full story
WaPost
At least four people – who had worked at Walmart, Trader Joe’s and Giant – have died from covid-19 in recent days, raising questions about whether supermarkets will be able to hire enough new workers to keep their operations running."
"Major supermarket chains are beginning to report their first coronavirus-related employee deaths, leading to store closures and increasing anxiety among grocery workers as the pandemic intensifies across the country.
A Trader Joe’s worker in Scarsdale, N.Y., a greeter at a Giant store in Largo, Md., and two Walmart employees from the same Chicago-area store have died of covid-19 in recent days, the companies confirmed Monday.
Walmart, the nation’s largest grocer, is hiring 150,000 workers, while Kroger is adding more than 10,000. Many are offering an extra $2 an hour and promising masks, gloves and hand sanitizer. But finding workers willing to work on the front lines for little more than the minimum wage could be an increasingly tough sell, according to supermarket analyst Phil Lempert.
“One of the biggest mistakes supermarkets made early on was not allowing employees to wear masks and gloves the way they wanted to,” he said. “They’re starting to become proactive now, but it’s still going to be much tougher to hire hundreds of thousands of new workers. We’re going to start seeing people say, ‘I’ll just stay unemployed instead of risking my life for a temporary job.’ "
Some companies have begun installing plexiglass sneeze guards at cash registers and requiring customers to stand 6 feet apart in line. The country’s two largest grocers, Walmart and Kroger, are beginning to check employees’ temperatures at the beginning of each shift and will provide workers with gloves and masks.
In Maryland, Leilani Jordan, 27, a greeter at the Giant’s Campus Way South store in Largo, died last week.
“She said, ‘Mommy, I’m going to work because no one else is going to help the senior citizens get their groceries,’ ” her mother, Zenobia Shepherd, told The Washington Post. “She only stopped going to work when she could no longer breathe.”
Her last day at work was March 16, according to Giant spokesman Daniel Wolk. Jordan tested positive for the coronavirus in late March and died Wednesday."
[So sad.]
[Costco seems to have good practices. Didn't see hand sanitizer at the door going out, tho. Like at some stores, like ACE. Limited people in store at a time. No more than 2 on one membership card. Wiping down of carts. Requirement to take a cart, for distancing reasons. Seemed odd to me. Spacing in all lines. Plexiglass at checkout. Groceries unloaded and bagged by Costco workers. Lots of masks for workers, or maybe all. No food samples.]
Read the full story
WaPost
I just got back from social distancing on the river trail it’s totally packed with masked walkers and joggers and bikers and strollers Lol. Sorry I won’t be able to give you my rebuttal to your semantics based retort until tomorrow. Although I found some more “inherited bad tests” shtick on fox and friends and also some good out right of him repeatedly lying in a official whitehouse transcript from a presser held in the rose garden before the April 1 presser as reported on in the Intercept so theres that. Lol.PlayerRep said:
In order to inherit something , say like the center for disease control and the nih and every other executive branch science based agency and also the entire armed forces, so yeah in order for trump to have inherited the bad test and the bad systems there has to have been a preceding administration, which of course there was Barack Hussein Obama’s. thumb:
Ps. this really is an interesting and surreal time we are living trying to anticipate what to expect next is just mind bending because of the intricate balance and pieces and layers of an unfettered global pro or leaning capitalist world economy all connected the internet. The current global economy that has developed just since the end of the Cold War which is pretty mind boggling. The only real European conflict since then was only really in Serbia and to a lesser degree the Russian invasion of Crimea. Other then that the Europeans have held it together since 1945. Why do think we still need Cold War budgets? Wonder where that would take us to reduce the military to just enough force to match other nations capabilities. Really should think about paying off Russia and China and rest to completely de nuke and we do it also. The think tanks must be working overtime right now on every facet of humanity. Feels scary too though. Wow......I have close relatives in nyc, la, Seattle, az so I’m worried about them and not really me or any family in Montana who is at risk.
The tragedy of all this is Trump has missed a generational opportunity to have been a transcendent world leader he could have profoundly changed the world but he is just out of his depth. He is a genius at holding his base but that will never be enough. He should have been just a figurehead like Reagan and relied on the details to be hammered out by congress and been a hands off executive and hire the best and brightest and let them shine and he takes all the credit. I really don’t think he Is mentally competent for the task. His severe narcissism is his Achilles heel. The guy used to be a democrat and pro choice limousine liberal rich guy. Why alienate all of that part of America. Effective governing is nuanced and about mutual progress of the country’s agenda and future. I predict he will crash and burn and lose in a land slide. Obama had eights years of digging out of bushes hole and getting to where Trump is or was now. Trump has like 6 Months to turn this around but he’s so far behind of where he could have been including how the pandemic was handled compare to what even third world Vietnam did. Shm. Should have completely closed all fights to and from China on January 27. and quarantine everyone else for 14 days prior to entry. The cost of just having done that compared to the trillions of dollars the pandemic is going to cost the economy is mind boggling. Vietnam seems to have managed it . Nice rant. Lol.
Dutch Lane said:
My view is that you are so biased against Trump, and a surprising poor or not critical reader, that what you say can't be trusted. You must be used to just saying things, or saying them forcefully, and then expecting people to believe what you say.
Consider just providing quotes of when Trump said he inherited bad TESTS from OBAMA. Not headlines, not quotes from pundits. Also, please stop the lawyer thing of being long-winded. Thx in advance.
Trump has not had 6 months to turn this around. The US started hearing stuff in early January. It's been 3 months.
Dems and people like you opposed Trump stopping fights from China when he did. Pls, stop with this type of BS.
The Intercept clip was in the article you cited. It doesn't mention Obama once. It doesn't say he inherited anything from prior administrations. Some of which he inherited was from Bush.
Dutch, I assume you are a nice guy, but man you are out to lunch sometimes. And long-winded.
The chart/graph in this article is very interesting. Huge unemployed, but surprising to me, to be so concerned, in the leisure and hospitality industry. Open the article and glance at the chart.
"Here's where the job losses are — in one chart
CNBC studied the net change in employment by industry for March based on data from the Labor Department."
"Among the hardest-hit areas of the economy was the accommodation and food services sector, which comprised more than half of the month's net losses. Businesses that prepare meals, snacks and beverages for customers for either on-premise (sit-down restaurants and bars) or off-premise (delivery and take-out) consumption saw payrolls slide by 417,000.
The broader leisure and hospitality sector, which includes that 417,000 decline in the food services industry, saw payrolls decline by 459,000 as hotels and other lodging businesses also cut jobs. This employment decline nearly offset gains accrued over the previous two years.
Read in CNBC: https://apple.news/A-azvSBCTTWCXHH1UW02D3Q
"Here's where the job losses are — in one chart
CNBC studied the net change in employment by industry for March based on data from the Labor Department."
"Among the hardest-hit areas of the economy was the accommodation and food services sector, which comprised more than half of the month's net losses. Businesses that prepare meals, snacks and beverages for customers for either on-premise (sit-down restaurants and bars) or off-premise (delivery and take-out) consumption saw payrolls slide by 417,000.
The broader leisure and hospitality sector, which includes that 417,000 decline in the food services industry, saw payrolls decline by 459,000 as hotels and other lodging businesses also cut jobs. This employment decline nearly offset gains accrued over the previous two years.
Read in CNBC: https://apple.news/A-azvSBCTTWCXHH1UW02D3Q
Hopefully, this link will get you to the MT projections. If not, look around for the MT part. This is from the UW med school group, which is one of the top predictors.
https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections
22 deaths by Aug. 4. April 13 peak. 45 beds needed; 1669 available. 8 ICU beds needed; 85 available. 7 ventilators needed.
I know anything can happen, but stay-in-place order? And ruin much of the MT economy? And totally screw bars/restaurants and many other businesses? And waste opportunity to help kids struggling in school? And Missoula has closed playgrounds for kids? Where are kids who don't have a backyard supposed to go?
And encourage and cause hospitals and surgery centers to not take on routine patients, to keep beds and personnel available? And how about those people who need the routine care and surgeries?
Flu activity in MT through Feb. 29: "Influenza activity continued to increase during week 9 with 1,188 new cases reported.
• Season to date, 8,572 cases, 361 hospitalizations, and nine deaths due to influenza have been
reported."
https://dphhs.mt.gov/Portals/85/publichealth/documents/CDEpi/StatisticsandReports/CurrentActivity/MontanaInfluenzaSummary.pdf
29 highway fatalities to date.
https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections
22 deaths by Aug. 4. April 13 peak. 45 beds needed; 1669 available. 8 ICU beds needed; 85 available. 7 ventilators needed.
I know anything can happen, but stay-in-place order? And ruin much of the MT economy? And totally screw bars/restaurants and many other businesses? And waste opportunity to help kids struggling in school? And Missoula has closed playgrounds for kids? Where are kids who don't have a backyard supposed to go?
And encourage and cause hospitals and surgery centers to not take on routine patients, to keep beds and personnel available? And how about those people who need the routine care and surgeries?
Flu activity in MT through Feb. 29: "Influenza activity continued to increase during week 9 with 1,188 new cases reported.
• Season to date, 8,572 cases, 361 hospitalizations, and nine deaths due to influenza have been
reported."
https://dphhs.mt.gov/Portals/85/publichealth/documents/CDEpi/StatisticsandReports/CurrentActivity/MontanaInfluenzaSummary.pdf
29 highway fatalities to date.
The Swedish approach. Note comment that they have higher death rate per capita than the US.
"Coronavirus? Pandemic? For many in Sweden, life goes on as usual"
"It was a crisp April day, and the Medborgarplatsen, one of the largest central squares in Stockholm, was bustling with life. People inspected daffodils at a flower stand, children swerved around on bicycles, and dozens gathered on benches and outdoor restaurants to chase away a particularly gloomy winter. There was nothing particularly exceptional about this day but for the fact that as seemingly carefree Swedes milled about, much of the world was on lockdown.
"Is it really that damn bad?" Sandra Bergkvist, a 28-year-old grocery clerk from nearby Akersberga, asked rhetorically as she enjoyed a beer with a group of friends. "Of course we're worried about people in the risk groups, but if it wasn't for media it wouldn't have been this hysterical."
Even Swedes in higher-risk groups did not seem that concerned. Margareta Körner, 80, and Margareta Eriksson, 67, fall into one of those groups — older adults — but the two retired women sat in the public square, sharing a thermos of coffee. Körner, who lives in a middle-class borough of central Stockholm, knows she is not supposed to be outside, but she said she maintains her distance from others. And Eriksson, who lives in the same borough, said fighting the coronavirus comes down to common sense.
"I think our government is doing the right thing," she said. "Most people are responsible."
Sweden has chosen its own path in battling the coronavirus pandemic.... While many countries, including Sweden's neighbors, have shut down schools, restaurants, shops and borders, Sweden has maintained a relatively lax approach to combating the spread of the virus. Many still go into work. Primary schools and day cares remain open, as do recreational centers and several gyms. The elderly are urged to stay at home and unnecessary domestic travel is discouraged, but this is not enforced other than through public shaming.
It was not until March 29 that the Swedish government significantly curtailed the size of permitted gatherings — from 500 to 50.
The country has not been immune. On Sunday, the number of dead surpassed 400 — a higher fatality rate per capita than in the United States or any other Scandinavian country.
One-third of Stockholm's homes for the elderly have seen cases of covid-19, medical facilities are stretched to their limits and hospital staffs are clamoring for enough protective gear. On Saturday, Prime Minister Stefan Löfven told the Swedish press that the country should be prepared for thousands of deaths.
Yet, in central Stockholm this weekend, you had to search to find signs of a pandemic.
"For a week or two, the city was like a ghost town, then people got tired of staying at home," said Linda Akesson, 30, from a middle-class suburb just north of Stockholm. Akesson, who works in a retirement home, was on a commuter train to meet friends for dinner. She said people make their own judgments based on government guidance. "We're this land of half-measures," she said. "They say, 'Try not to use public transport, but if you do, that's totally fine, too.' "
Several recent opinion polls have shown that the government's response has been popular. Other polls show that Swedes are among the least worried by the coronavirus. That was echoed by the vibe in downtown Stockholm."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/coronavirus-pandemic-for-many-in-sweden-life-goes-on-as-usual/2020/04/06/7402f68e-75bb-11ea-ad9b-254ec99993bc_story.html
"Coronavirus? Pandemic? For many in Sweden, life goes on as usual"
"It was a crisp April day, and the Medborgarplatsen, one of the largest central squares in Stockholm, was bustling with life. People inspected daffodils at a flower stand, children swerved around on bicycles, and dozens gathered on benches and outdoor restaurants to chase away a particularly gloomy winter. There was nothing particularly exceptional about this day but for the fact that as seemingly carefree Swedes milled about, much of the world was on lockdown.
"Is it really that damn bad?" Sandra Bergkvist, a 28-year-old grocery clerk from nearby Akersberga, asked rhetorically as she enjoyed a beer with a group of friends. "Of course we're worried about people in the risk groups, but if it wasn't for media it wouldn't have been this hysterical."
Even Swedes in higher-risk groups did not seem that concerned. Margareta Körner, 80, and Margareta Eriksson, 67, fall into one of those groups — older adults — but the two retired women sat in the public square, sharing a thermos of coffee. Körner, who lives in a middle-class borough of central Stockholm, knows she is not supposed to be outside, but she said she maintains her distance from others. And Eriksson, who lives in the same borough, said fighting the coronavirus comes down to common sense.
"I think our government is doing the right thing," she said. "Most people are responsible."
Sweden has chosen its own path in battling the coronavirus pandemic.... While many countries, including Sweden's neighbors, have shut down schools, restaurants, shops and borders, Sweden has maintained a relatively lax approach to combating the spread of the virus. Many still go into work. Primary schools and day cares remain open, as do recreational centers and several gyms. The elderly are urged to stay at home and unnecessary domestic travel is discouraged, but this is not enforced other than through public shaming.
It was not until March 29 that the Swedish government significantly curtailed the size of permitted gatherings — from 500 to 50.
The country has not been immune. On Sunday, the number of dead surpassed 400 — a higher fatality rate per capita than in the United States or any other Scandinavian country.
One-third of Stockholm's homes for the elderly have seen cases of covid-19, medical facilities are stretched to their limits and hospital staffs are clamoring for enough protective gear. On Saturday, Prime Minister Stefan Löfven told the Swedish press that the country should be prepared for thousands of deaths.
Yet, in central Stockholm this weekend, you had to search to find signs of a pandemic.
"For a week or two, the city was like a ghost town, then people got tired of staying at home," said Linda Akesson, 30, from a middle-class suburb just north of Stockholm. Akesson, who works in a retirement home, was on a commuter train to meet friends for dinner. She said people make their own judgments based on government guidance. "We're this land of half-measures," she said. "They say, 'Try not to use public transport, but if you do, that's totally fine, too.' "
Several recent opinion polls have shown that the government's response has been popular. Other polls show that Swedes are among the least worried by the coronavirus. That was echoed by the vibe in downtown Stockholm."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/coronavirus-pandemic-for-many-in-sweden-life-goes-on-as-usual/2020/04/06/7402f68e-75bb-11ea-ad9b-254ec99993bc_story.html
You predict what you want to happen in your biased world. Sleepy Joe has no chance; he can't find his way around the block. I would bet you predicted Clinton to win in 2016. I can hardly imagine where we would be today had that happened. You want to talk lies?Dutch Lane said:
Wow. Shocking that this thread turned completely political due to the same nut jobs that are guilty of that every time it happens. :?
