The Holsinger/Haslam Massacre

[Mousegriz]

I am also someone that has seen Joelnell play, and was never a believer that she was a D1 player. The main reason was she is not super athletic and a liability on the defensive end of the floor. She is a shooter, but I believe she would struggle getting her own shot with the quickness of D1 defenders. I think she could be a terrific D2 or NAIA player though.

You are a liar. I can tell by your comments that you have never seen her play. Your posting has always been marginal.

Will be interesting to see where the "cuts" go. Based on PR's assessment I expect several will transfer to D1 schools and play next year. His posting has always been spot on! :thumb:

 

[teejay406]

Yeah, I see the lady griz woes of the last few years as less of a personnel issue than a culture issue. Playerrep mentions the two top tier players that left after Shannon's last year as evidence that the LG can and was attracting top tier talent and I can't disagree with that. However, one left (Harrington) presumably because Shannon was going to be retained, and the other left (Pickens) when she was ultimately let go. For me, that was the primary evidence of something that I had been noticing for the past few years in many other subtle ways, that the locker room was divided and Shannon had lost control of the "team" aspect of basketball.

Ultimately, whoever was hired needed to nip that in the bud as the first order of business. While I don't think Petrino necessarily got a fair shake in being able to do that last year, I have no issues with Holsinger's housecleaning at this point. I'm a bit bummed about Dixson and Momberg but I'm confident they'll land on their feet somewhere. In the meantime, we can finally rip the bandaid off and move forward fresh with a new program and (hopefully) mindset.

 

[PlayerRep]

You are a liar. I can tell by your comments that you have never seen her play. Your posting has always been marginal.

Will be interesting to see where the "cuts" go. Based on PR's assessment I expect several will transfer to D1 schools and play next year. His posting has always been spot on! :thumb:

What the new coach did has put these players in a tough spot. They weren't in the recruiting/looking mode, so are out of that loop. Plus, the cutting will taint them for awhile. They will probably have to work their way up, unless they get lucky and find a good landing spot. I don't know how much room Carroll might have for the some of them or the Schweyens in particular. I look forward to schools like Carroll and Western tasking on the LG in the future, if the new coach would take that risk. Maybe Petrino should take them to Angelo St and make that school a power for that level. Also, I didn't say any of these players would be impact players for the LG next year; just that some deserved to be kept on the team.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

just that some deserved to be kept on the team.

Your OPINION seems to be in the minority.

 

[MissoulaMarinerFan]

Will be interesting to see where the "cuts" go. Based on PR's assessment I expect several will transfer to D1 schools and play next year. His posting has always been spot on! :thumb:

What the new coach did has put these players in a tough spot. They weren't in the recruiting/looking mode, so are out of that loop. Plus, the cutting will taint them for awhile. They will probably have to work their way up, unless they get lucky and find a good landing spot. I don't know how much room Carroll might have for the some of them or the Schweyens in particular. I look forward to schools like Carroll and Western tasking on the LG in the future, if the new coach would take that risk. Maybe Petrino should take them to Angelo St and make that school a power for that level. Also, I didn't say any of these players would be impact players for the LG next year; just that some deserved to be kept on the team.

I think I fall more along the lines of Players opinion on this. I feel pretty bad for the Ladies who were let go - and am somewhat disappointed / stunned at the sheer amount that were let go. I feel Holsinger has put himself (and the ladies still on the roster) in a really tough spot needlessly. Seems like he's gambling on his coaching and recruiting ability to get the ship turned around. Time will quickly tell whether this hire will get the Lady Griz back to prominence or continue their slide to the middle of the pack or lower in the Big Sky Conference.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

I think I fall more along the lines of Players opinion on this. I feel pretty bad for the Ladies who were let go - and am somewhat disappointed / stunned at the sheer amount that were let go. I feel Holsinger has put himself (and the ladies still on the roster) in a really tough spot needlessly. Seems like he's gambling on his coaching and recruiting ability to get the ship turned around. Time will quickly tell whether this hire will get the Lady Griz back to prominence or continue their slide to the middle of the pack or lower in the Big Sky Conference.

My take, you can get equal or better talent from the portal easily. This is why the number does not alarm me. Also for anyone expecting a 1 year turnaround might want to temper their expectations, as it will take a couple recruiting cycles to up the overall talent.

 

[PlayerRep]

just that some deserved to be kept on the team.

Your OPINION seems to be in the minority.

Yes, and I'm fine with that. My views often start out in the minority, but then turn out to be right.

If your idea of improving LG basketball is to hire an out of state assistant, who comes with no ties to the LG program, who then starts by slashing and burning and cutting 6 players, mainly Montanans, via short zoom calls; then you and I will never agree. I don't believe in building programs and treating people that way. At least, the new coach is apparently a fairly nice guy, I am told. As opposed to Campbell, who came across quite arrogant in his interview.


I liked the Selvig/LG documentary. I liked how it was a big family, with Robin giving women, including Native Americans, a chance. That's my idea of LG basketball. I am fine with bringing in more out of state talent, if that is necessary, but not slashing and burning to get there. Is the new coach going to bring in more foreign talent? Where's the recruiting budget coming from? I assume UM isn't going to cut another academic program for a bigger recruiting/scouting budget and for international travel.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

no ties to the LG program,

Don't see this as an issue. It also seems that ties to the LG program is what led to this point.

starts by slashing and burning and cutting 6 players, mainly Montanans,

Once again, no issue with the number, and of course the number of Montanans is high, because the number of Montanans on the roster.

via short zoom calls;

I will have to defer to you about whether this was the method, and if so, not the best way, but it is not a deal breaker.

 

[PlayerRep]

no ties to the LG program,

Don't see this as an issue. It also seems that ties to the LG program is what led to this point.

starts by slashing and burning and cutting 6 players, mainly Montanans,

Once again, no issue with the number, and of course the number of Montanans is high, because the number of Montanans on the roster.

via short zoom calls;

I will have to defer to you about whether this was the method, and if so, not the best way, but it is not a deal breaker.

No, hiring the wrong coach and not Trish Duce is what led to the problem. Big difference. Ask Selvig.

The number 6 seems to be unprecedented. Where are the examples of 6 cuts in the first week?

You don't have to defer to me on method of cutting.. You can defer to players and parents on that.

 

[TrueGriz]

I think I fall more along the lines of Players opinion on this. I feel pretty bad for the Ladies who were let go - and am somewhat disappointed / stunned at the sheer amount that were let go. I feel Holsinger has put himself (and the ladies still on the roster) in a really tough spot needlessly. Seems like he's gambling on his coaching and recruiting ability to get the ship turned around. Time will quickly tell whether this hire will get the Lady Griz back to prominence or continue their slide to the middle of the pack or lower in the Big Sky Conference.

My take, you can get equal or better talent from the portal easily. ..

If he replaces the ones that were cut with equal talent, that just makes the cuts even worse and I will be extremely unforgiving of the new head coach.

Every player that was cut better be replaced by someone that is clearly better as a player and a student.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

No, hiring the wrong coach and not Trish Duce is what led to the problem. Big difference. Ask Selvig.

They hired Shannon, a person with ties to the LG program, which led to now. Did they hire the wrong person, yep, but the ties to the program isn't a negative with the new hire.

The number 6 seems to be unprecedented. Where are the examples of 6 cuts in the first week?

Who care if it is unprecedented or not, it was the direction the new coach thought was necessary, and I don't have any issue with it.

 

[MissoulaMarinerFan]

My take, you can get equal or better talent from the portal easily. ..

If he replaces the ones that were cut with equal talent, that just makes the cuts even worse and I will be extremely unforgiving of the new head coach.

Every player that was cut better be replaced by someone that is clearly better as a player and a student.

Yup - that's the point I was trying to make. If he ends up with roughly same talent level / results or worse results with the remaining group, why make the cuts in the first place? The coach is kind of setting the expectation of improving in year 1 from last year and being better in year 2.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

If he replaces the ones that were cut with equal talent, that just makes the cuts even worse and I will be extremely unforgiving of the new head coach.

Every player that was cut better be replaced by someone that is clearly better as a player and a student.

I think someone missed my point. And don't be so naïve.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

If he replaces the ones that were cut with equal talent, that just makes the cuts even worse and I will be extremely unforgiving of the new head coach.

Every player that was cut better be replaced by someone that is clearly better as a player and a student.

Yup - that's the point I was trying to make. If he ends up with roughly same talent level / results or worse results with the remaining group, why make the cuts in the first place? The coach is kind of setting the expectation of improving in year 1 from last year and being better in year 2.

Once again, someone that didn't get the point.

 

[TrueGriz]

If he replaces the ones that were cut with equal talent, that just makes the cuts even worse and I will be extremely unforgiving of the new head coach.

Every player that was cut better be replaced by someone that is clearly better as a player and a student.

I think someone missed my point. And don't be so naïve.

I didn't.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

I think someone missed my point. And don't be so naïve.

I didn't.

You kind of did. The point was a reflection of the talent that was let go. Now he must replace them, and he should have no issue getting better talent. But if they guy gets 4 better players and 2 equally talented players, are you going to freak out? Apparently yes you are.

 

[PlayerRep]

No, hiring the wrong coach and not Trish Duce is what led to the problem. Big difference. Ask Selvig.

They hired Shannon, a person with ties to the LG program, which led to now. Did they hire the wrong person, yep, but the ties to the program isn't a negative with the new hire.

The number 6 seems to be unprecedented. Where are the examples of 6 cuts in the first week?

Who care if it is unprecedented or not, it was the direction the new coach thought was necessary, and I don't have any issue with it.

I think not having ties to the program is a problem, but it's not insurmountable, of course.

Sorry, but unprecedented is a problem for the program, and not something that people like me will support. He went too far. Everyone I've talked to who is historically close the program, is surprised and says the immediate cuts went too far,. How do you think Shannon's LG friends/supporters view the cuts? Is the new coach going to be able to raise money from them in the near future?

 

[TrueGriz]

I didn't.

You kind of did. The point was a reflection of the talent that was let go. Now he must replace them, and he should have no issue getting better talent. But if they guy gets 4 better players and 2 equally talented players, are you going to freak out? Apparently yes you are.

No, I didn't. I think it is more you missed my point. And don't be so naive in thinking that it will be easy to get better talent.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

You kind of did. The point was a reflection of the talent that was let go. Now he must replace them, and he should have no issue getting better talent. But if they guy gets 4 better players and 2 equally talented players, are you going to freak out? Apparently yes you are.

No, I didn't. I think it is more you missed my point. And don't be so naive in thinking that it will be easy to get better talent.

Well, when I believe that talent lost was NAIA/D2 type talent, I think that getting a handful of D1 talent thru the portal isn't an over exaggeration. I see that as an upgrade.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Sorry, but unprecedented is a problem for the program, and not something that people like me will support. He went too far. Everyone I've talked to who is historically close the program, is surprised and says the immediate cuts went too far,. How do you think Shannon's LG friends/supporters view the cuts? Is the new coach going to be able to raise money from them in the near future?

I disagree about going to far. I also really don't care how Shannon's LG friends and supporters view the cuts, but I wouldn't think great since it would be a reflection of Shannon's performance as HC. I also don't think it is the HC's fault that he may not get money from them, since KH, with the decision to fire Shannon, pretty much sealed that.