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Cost of attendance and the Big Sky

PlayerRep said:
BadlandsGrizFan said:
Well sadly I think that's the direction that any college football programs that don't want to basically be D2 are going. But honestly if this is the case Montana is a lot luckier than most schools in that we have the perfect Conference to step into like the Mountain West. Geographically, facility wise, fan support, and financially the UM would fit right in with those schools. So I guess were lucky for that. Could you imagine being a team like NDSU trying to find a conference that fits....what would it be? The Mid American?
Click to expand...

I don't get the FBS or D-II thing. I've seen no suggestion that the number of scholarships are proposed to be increased. Thus, virtually all recruits who get offered an FBS scholarship (and stipend) and want to play FBS are going to go to FBS--just like they do now. The number of FBS scholarships doesn't increase because there are additional stipends. Looking at football, who on the Griz would be at an FBS school if there were stipends? Will the Griz lose a recruit a year to Idaho because they have a $3500 stipend? If so, who cares? Would Jesse Sims go to Oregon St. because of the stipend? Jeez, the additional cost for him to get to and from school and for his family to attend games, would be more than $3500.

Again, if UM doesn't pay a stipend, then they need to go to D-II? That argument doesn't even make sense.
Click to expand...

well, maybe you're right. i met a woman once who'd never been out of missoula county, and she seemed to be one of the happiest people i've ever met. for those of you who live in missoula, can't see beyond bozeman, have easy access to the games and are happy chasing a second-rate "national championship", it's a dawg's life you've got. be happy!

for those of us whose lives took us outside montana, we look back with great fondness on a state whose motto seems to be "oro, plata y nada risk," yet still wonder why it is montana can't join the big boy's club and be a part of the national conversation. why we can't be blue-chip montana instead 1-aa junk bonds montana. why shithole nowhere places like laramie, stillwater, lincoln, pullman and ames can have major programs, while missoula can't. why a school with better football attendance than several of the mountain west schools can't be a mountain west school. why in response to such a diatribe like this, there will be a flood of 683 reasons why we can't, instead of the will to say, "let's do it!" jerry jones said once, "the greatest risk in life is not taking risks." the montana athletic program is at a point it needs to take a risk, and move up. the greater risk? standing pat.
 
NDSU AD comments on this

"Many schools are expected to fund stipends for football, men's basketball and women's basketball, Larsen said.

"So those are the things we considering on our campus," Larsen said. "To be able to compete at the level we want to compete at and compete against schools outside the Missouri Valley Conference and outside the Summit League, it's certainly something were taking a look at."

Larsen said it's a matter of recruiting, particularly for football. The four-time defending FCS champion Bison regularly recruit against programs in the lower tier of FBS from conferences like the Mid-American and Mountain West. Those conferences are leaning toward implementing cost of attendance for their football programs, Larsen said.

"When you look at the football recruits we were able to attract this year and some of the schools we were able to attract them away from -- some Mountain West schools some MAC schools -- if you put us in this same situation next year and all of the sudden those schools are offering cost of attendance and North Dakota State isn't ... I'd like to think we still have enough to offer from a football program, academically,and all those things to attract those kids, but I think the chances become slimmer and slimmer moving down the road," Larsen said."


Story

http://kfgo.com/blogs/so-many-opinions-so-little-time/953/ndsu-will-look-at-paying-stipends-to-athletes-under-new-ncaa-rule/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
NDSU Stipends would give the school a HUGE advantage

http://ndsuspectrum.com/cost-attendance-measure-give-ndsu-huge-advantage/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
citay said:
PlayerRep said:
BadlandsGrizFan said:
Well sadly I think that's the direction that any college football programs that don't want to basically be D2 are going. But honestly if this is the case Montana is a lot luckier than most schools in that we have the perfect Conference to step into like the Mountain West. Geographically, facility wise, fan support, and financially the UM would fit right in with those schools. So I guess were lucky for that. Could you imagine being a team like NDSU trying to find a conference that fits....what would it be? The Mid American?
Click to expand...

I don't get the FBS or D-II thing. I've seen no suggestion that the number of scholarships are proposed to be increased. Thus, virtually all recruits who get offered an FBS scholarship (and stipend) and want to play FBS are going to go to FBS--just like they do now. The number of FBS scholarships doesn't increase because there are additional stipends. Looking at football, who on the Griz would be at an FBS school if there were stipends? Will the Griz lose a recruit a year to Idaho because they have a $3500 stipend? If so, who cares? Would Jesse Sims go to Oregon St. because of the stipend? Jeez, the additional cost for him to get to and from school and for his family to attend games, would be more than $3500.

Again, if UM doesn't pay a stipend, then they need to go to D-II? That argument doesn't even make sense.
Click to expand...

well, maybe you're right. i met a woman once who'd never been out of missoula county, and she seemed to be one of the happiest people i've ever met. for those of you who live in missoula, can't see beyond bozeman, have easy access to the games and are happy chasing a second-rate "national championship", it's a dawg's life you've got. be happy!

for those of us whose lives took us outside montana, we look back with great fondness on a state whose motto seems to be "oro, plata y nada risk," yet still wonder why it is montana can't join the big boy's club and be a part of the national conversation. why we can't be blue-chip montana instead 1-aa junk bonds montana. why shithole nowhere places like laramie, stillwater, lincoln, pullman and ames can have major programs, while missoula can't. why a school with better football attendance than several of the mountain west schools can't be a mountain west school. why in response to such a diatribe like this, there will be a flood of 683 reasons why we can't, instead of the will to say, "let's do it!" jerry jones said once, "the greatest risk in life is not taking risks." the montana athletic program is at a point it needs to take a risk, and move up. the greater risk? standing pat.
Click to expand...

Quit having such pioneering thoughts. Bad Citay.....Bad
 
citay said:
PlayerRep said:
BadlandsGrizFan said:
Well sadly I think that's the direction that any college football programs that don't want to basically be D2 are going. But honestly if this is the case Montana is a lot luckier than most schools in that we have the perfect Conference to step into like the Mountain West. Geographically, facility wise, fan support, and financially the UM would fit right in with those schools. So I guess were lucky for that. Could you imagine being a team like NDSU trying to find a conference that fits....what would it be? The Mid American?
Click to expand...

I don't get the FBS or D-II thing. I've seen no suggestion that the number of scholarships are proposed to be increased. Thus, virtually all recruits who get offered an FBS scholarship (and stipend) and want to play FBS are going to go to FBS--just like they do now. The number of FBS scholarships doesn't increase because there are additional stipends. Looking at football, who on the Griz would be at an FBS school if there were stipends? Will the Griz lose a recruit a year to Idaho because they have a $3500 stipend? If so, who cares? Would Jesse Sims go to Oregon St. because of the stipend? Jeez, the additional cost for him to get to and from school and for his family to attend games, would be more than $3500.

Again, if UM doesn't pay a stipend, then they need to go to D-II? That argument doesn't even make sense.
Click to expand...

well, maybe you're right. i met a woman once who'd never been out of missoula county, and she seemed to be one of the happiest people i've ever met. for those of you who live in missoula, can't see beyond bozeman, have easy access to the games and are happy chasing a second-rate "national championship", it's a dawg's life you've got. be happy!

for those of us whose lives took us outside montana, we look back with great fondness on a state whose motto seems to be "oro, plata y nada risk," yet still wonder why it is montana can't join the big boy's club and be a part of the national conversation. why we can't be blue-chip montana instead 1-aa junk bonds montana. why shithole nowhere places like laramie, stillwater, lincoln, pullman and ames can have major programs, while missoula can't. why a school with better football attendance than several of the mountain west schools can't be a mountain west school. why in response to such a diatribe like this, there will be a flood of 683 reasons why we can't, instead of the will to say, "let's do it!" jerry jones said once, "the greatest risk in life is not taking risks." the montana athletic program is at a point it needs to take a risk, and move up. the greater risk? standing pat.
Click to expand...


But citay, we're just little ol' Montana. There ain't no way we can do this.

Why not you say? I dunno exactly. But we're just little ol' Montana so I know we can't. And besides, we'd miss seeing Southeastern Middle Tennessee Tech come in here as a 6-5 team and lose by 54 in the first round of the playoffs for a "national" championship.
 
The University of Wyoming is the ONLY four-year NCAA school in the entire state. That speaks VOLUMES as to why they can at least play with the big boys on a financial level. Oklahoma State has Boone Pickens essentially funding their entire football and men's basketball operations. So Citay, there's TWO HUGE advantages two of those schools you mentioned have over lil' ole Montana and Montana State. Your Nebraska example is also not very good. FIRST, for its entire existence, Husker football is the ONLY NCAA football playing school in the entire state as well. Secondly, the University of Nebraska might be in a crap town, but the enrollment on the main campus is nearly four times that of the University of Montana. That comparison is absolutely apples to oranges. I'm not against a move up, but geeeeeezzzzz, could you pick three worse examples?

Add on: Im also curious for those of you who are absolutely convinced Montana can immediately move to FBS and into the MWC with exactly where they are at financially right now. Do you guys think that when the Griz move up, the head coach should be paid what the rest of the coaches in the MWC make? And the assitants? And if so, where does that money come from? I really would like an answer to that question.
 
EverettGriz said:
Like all successful programs, NDSU has no desire to stay FCS.
Click to expand...

http://kfgo.com/news/articles/2015/jan/17/bresciani-no-pressure-to-move-bison-football-up-to-fbs/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"There are some pretty intense conversations going on about what is going to happen to Division I football and how it's going to be compartmentalized. We're going to have to play close attention to that. It's a complicated business and I don't think we want to see ourselves diminished by any changes in Division I football, but right now we're also not seeing any reason or pressure to move up," Bresciani said.
Click to expand...
 
havgrizfan said:
The University of Wyoming is the ONLY four-year NCAA school in the entire state. That speaks VOLUMES as to why they can at least play with the big boys on a financial level. Oklahoma State has Boone Pickens essentially funding their entire football and men's basketball operations. So Citay, there's TWO HUGE advantages two of those schools you mentioned have over lil' ole Montana and Montana State. Your Nebraska example is also not very good. FIRST, for its entire existence, Husker football is the ONLY NCAA football playing school in the entire state as well. Secondly, the University of Nebraska might be in a crap town, but the enrollment on the main campus is nearly four times that of the University of Montana. That comparison is absolutely apples to oranges. I'm not against a move up, but geeeeeezzzzz, could you pick three worse examples?

Add on: Im also curious for those of you who are absolutely convinced Montana can immediately move to FBS and into the MWC with exactly where they are at financially right now. Do you guys think that when the Griz move up, the head coach should be paid what the rest of the coaches in the MWC make? And the assitants? And if so, where does that money come from? I really would like an answer to that question.
Click to expand...

tv!

jeez, it should be readily evident to anybody by now that what has enlarged audiences almost exponentially--and hence advertising revenues--is television. television contracts drive all sports, everywhere, because sport has turned out to be the favored content to fill this incredible mediascape that technology has created over the past 50 years. in today's world, if you're not on television, you really don't exist. it's all about television, which is all about markets, which is all about dollars. and in the modern mediascape, the big sky conference does not exist. it doesn't have markets, and so it's not on television. it's almost literally in the "dark ages."

i'm not saying the mountain west is tv's garden of eden. in the hierarchy of bigger conferences, it's pretty much at the bottom. utah and tcu make way more tv money in their new conferences. but the mountain west does have markets, and it does have tv contracts with cbs and espn. their championship game was aired in the bay area on cbs, a broadcast channel, in the fourth largest market in the country. so the conference is in the national discussion, while the big sky is not, and never will be.

i do admit the transition would be costly, because we might not ge to share those tv revenues immediately,and the conference would want an entrance fee to make up for some of their diluted revenue streams. but once we got established, i believe the revenue would be there to support the higher level. and of course, it would be a huge bonanza for our basketball programs. i can see a sharp increase in baskeball attendance just based on the level of competition that would show up in missoula, versus the big sky. this ain't all about football.

finally, a few other benefits:
--enhanced recruiting opportunities for our coaches.
--a resumption of old rivalries with wyoming, colorado state, utah state and new mexico from the old skyline conference, and boise state and nevada from the big sky.
--the chance to travel to fun places to see the team play--las vegas, san diego, honolulu, san francisco, denver.
--increased exposure for the entire alumni base, not just the montana base, which at other schools translates into more alumni donations.
--a guarantee we could schedule top-tier teams non-conference, versus the liklihood the big schools will stop scheduling us if we stay in the big sky.
--finally, one ace up our sleeve: bob stitt. i have yet to see our team play a down, but i can tell you this already: his style is made for television. that is, if we're in a conference that's on television.
 
Does all of this mean I will have to sit with the other 26,000 fans in Wa Griz watching the game for the next few years? Sitting next to the fans expecting us to win every game? Fans that will be pissed if we don't win the world? Fans that win Montana every year? Fans that pay tons of money each game? Experience game day, every person in Montana should be able to have a chance.

Move up, down or sideways one must not ruin what we have. In any event as a Griz nut I am all for "it".....
 
citay said:
i do admit the transition would be costly, because we might not ge to share those tv revenues immediately,and the conference would want an entrance fee to make up for some of their diluted revenue streams. but once we got established, i believe the revenue would be there to support the higher level. and of course, it would be a huge bonanza for our basketball programs. i can see a sharp increase in baskeball attendance just based on the level of competition that would show up in missoula, versus the big sky. this ain't all about football.

finally, a few other benefits:
--enhanced recruiting opportunities for our coaches.
--a resumption of old rivalries with wyoming, colorado state, utah state and new mexico from the old skyline conference, and boise state and nevada from the big sky.
--the chance to travel to fun places to see the team play--las vegas, san diego, honolulu, san francisco, denver.
--increased exposure for the entire alumni base, not just the montana base, which at other schools translates into more alumni donations.
--a guarantee we could schedule top-tier teams non-conference, versus the liklihood the big schools will stop scheduling us if we stay in the big sky.
--finally, one ace up our sleeve: bob stitt. i have yet to see our team play a down, but i can tell you this already: his style is made for television. that is, if we're in a conference that's on television.
Click to expand...

I cannot help but think that the new study center, weight room, locker rooms, the addition of women's softball, and the planned indoor training facility are ALL steps made in preparation of an eventual move-up. All positive moves, IMO, much needed and putting us at or above most of the MWC as far as facilities go.
 
I also agree that it is clear we are moving in that direction. I can't wait to play in the Famous Idaho Potato Bowl and never have another playoff game in our stadium again. Boise is awesome and easy to get to in December. :(
 
GrizPony said:
I also agree that it is clear we are moving in that direction. I can't wait to play in the Famous Idaho Potato Bowl and never have another playoff game in our stadium again. Boise is awesome and easy to get to in December. :(
Click to expand...


Yeah, and playing teams like Northern Colorado and Sact St are any better?
 
citay said:
PlayerRep said:
BadlandsGrizFan said:
Well sadly I think that's the direction that any college football programs that don't want to basically be D2 are going. But honestly if this is the case Montana is a lot luckier than most schools in that we have the perfect Conference to step into like the Mountain West. Geographically, facility wise, fan support, and financially the UM would fit right in with those schools. So I guess were lucky for that. Could you imagine being a team like NDSU trying to find a conference that fits....what would it be? The Mid American?
Click to expand...

I don't get the FBS or D-II thing. I've seen no suggestion that the number of scholarships are proposed to be increased. Thus, virtually all recruits who get offered an FBS scholarship (and stipend) and want to play FBS are going to go to FBS--just like they do now. The number of FBS scholarships doesn't increase because there are additional stipends. Looking at football, who on the Griz would be at an FBS school if there were stipends? Will the Griz lose a recruit a year to Idaho because they have a $3500 stipend? If so, who cares? Would Jesse Sims go to Oregon St. because of the stipend? Jeez, the additional cost for him to get to and from school and for his family to attend games, would be more than $3500.

Again, if UM doesn't pay a stipend, then they need to go to D-II? That argument doesn't even make sense.
Click to expand...

well, maybe you're right. i met a woman once who'd never been out of missoula county, and she seemed to be one of the happiest people i've ever met. for those of you who live in missoula, can't see beyond bozeman, have easy access to the games and are happy chasing a second-rate "national championship", it's a dawg's life you've got. be happy!

for those of us whose lives took us outside montana, we look back with great fondness on a state whose motto seems to be "oro, plata y nada risk," yet still wonder why it is montana can't join the big boy's club and be a part of the national conversation. why we can't be blue-chip montana instead 1-aa junk bonds montana. why shithole nowhere places like laramie, stillwater, lincoln, pullman and ames can have major programs, while missoula can't. why a school with better football attendance than several of the mountain west schools can't be a mountain west school. why in response to such a diatribe like this, there will be a flood of 683 reasons why we can't, instead of the will to say, "let's do it!" jerry jones said once, "the greatest risk in life is not taking risks." the montana athletic program is at a point it needs to take a risk, and move up. the greater risk? standing pat.
Click to expand...

This is true...its paid off for Jerruh.....he said after he signed the check for the cowboys that he got into his limo and thought to himself that he just made the biggest mistake of his life hahahahaha......I'd say it panned out.
 
grizcountry420 said:
GrizPony said:
I also agree that it is clear we are moving in that direction. I can't wait to play in the Famous Idaho Potato Bowl and never have another playoff game in our stadium again. Boise is awesome and easy to get to in December. :(
Click to expand...


Yeah, and playing teams like Northern Colorado and Sact St are any better?
Click to expand...

No but by the time we get to the playoffs the competition is good and we usually get to see it in our own stadium, which I happen to like. ;)
 
The University of Montana is working through a budget deficit problem that impacts the entire college, yet the "move-up" people keep banging on the drum. Bring your checkbooks fellas, UM is several million short. :clap:


havgrizfan said:
The University of Wyoming is the ONLY four-year NCAA school in the entire state. That speaks VOLUMES as to why they can at least play with the big boys on a financial level. Oklahoma State has Boone Pickens essentially funding their entire football and men's basketball operations. So Citay, there's TWO HUGE advantages two of those schools you mentioned have over lil' ole Montana and Montana State. Your Nebraska example is also not very good. FIRST, for its entire existence, Husker football is the ONLY NCAA football playing school in the entire state as well. Secondly, the University of Nebraska might be in a crap town, but the enrollment on the main campus is nearly four times that of the University of Montana. That comparison is absolutely apples to oranges. I'm not against a move up, but geeeeeezzzzz, could you pick three worse examples?

Add on: Im also curious for those of you who are absolutely convinced Montana can immediately move to FBS and into the MWC with exactly where they are at financially right now. Do you guys think that when the Griz move up, the head coach should be paid what the rest of the coaches in the MWC make? And the assitants? And if so, where does that money come from? I really would like an answer to that question.
Click to expand...
 
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