Email from O'Day about the WAC, BSC & More.

[Tokyogriz]

This shows that UM is SERIOUSLY considering this unlike many of the people talking trash saying its just info gathering etc for a far off someday trip.

Best info I have seen on this so far and makes it crystal clear why a move would be good IMO.　　If you read this and still think all is so great in Big Sky country you have brain damage. (Grizmayor, Playerrep and co. lol)

 

[Harm]

Unless you are an idiot and have negative analysis abilities, the decision is an obvious one...

 

[PlayerRep]

Playerrep, how much deference will the Prez give the AD, and the BOR give the Prez in turn? I know it's their final decision, but does it work more like veto power at some level?

Don't know, but I can't imagine that a college president , especially a new one, is going to just defer to the AD and not completely analyze the situation. No, it's not veto power. Do you think the AD commands the respect of the president? Many people on egriz (but not me) have dissed O'Day for years. They've said he was small time and just a pawn of the president. Of course, they will listen to his recommendation, and seek his input.

From a general institutionial decisionmaking point of view, but not based on knowing anything about the dynamics of this situation or knowing the new president, it would seem unlikely that a new president would make such an important decision like this in a relatively short period of time, and decide to change the course of athletics by moving up. There are way too many risks in deciding to move up. The status quo is a much easier decision to make. Does a new president, who has been the provost and very close to the faculty, want his first major decision to ultimately result in multiple football and other athletic coaches, and even the AD, being paid a bunch more money than top members of the faculty--and even of himself in the case of the head coach? Is that the first message he will want to send to his faculty?

 

[PlayerRep]

Unless you are an idiot and have negative analysis abilities, the decision is an obvious one...

If the current budget shortfall is under $500,000 per year, and the budget shortfall in I-A will be between say $1 million and $2 million, why do you think the decision to move up is so obvious?

If you're in a stable conference and you have a chance to move to an unstable one (and one that may not survive), why is that so obvious?

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Playerrep, how much deference will the Prez give the AD, and the BOR give the Prez in turn? I know it's their final decision, but does it work more like veto power at some level?

Don't know, but I can't imagine that a college president , especially a new one, is going to just defer to the AD and not completely analyze the situation. No, it's not veto power. Do you think the AD commands the respect of the president? Many people on egriz (but not me) have dissed O'Day for years. They've said he was small time and just a pawn of the president. Of course, they will listen to his recommendation, and seek his input.

From a general institutionial decisionmaking point of view, but not based on knowing anything about the dynamics of this situation or knowing the new president, it would seem unlikely that a new president would make such an important decision like this in a relatively short period of time, and decide to change the course of athletics by moving up. There are way too many risks in deciding to move up. The status quo is a much easier decision to make. Does a new president, who has been the provost and very close to the faculty, want his first major decision to ultimately result in multiple football and other athletic coaches, and even the AD, being paid a bunch more money than top members of the faculty--and even of himself in the case of the head coach? Is that the first message he will want to send to his faculty?

Noted. I was actually thinking the exact opposite regarding the president being new. I thought maybe not being as close to the situation as long as the AD might make a new president just go off the AD's recommendation.
As far as the BOR goes, I was just thinking it might be like the BOD at a lot of corporations. i.e., VP of a functional area tells CEO something, CEO takes heed, CEO recommends to the BOD, BOD discharges its fiduciary obligation by showing its decision making process was sound, and the VP was really the dude who proposed the change.

I see what you are saying too, though. Thanks.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

"--- AND OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE: We are NOT considering the health and welfare of the student-athletes, who are having to spend at least one month of playing 4-5 more games --- which is permanently damaging their bodies – and hurting their academics. This is not fair to them – nor their coaches. This is where all of us are selfish, and want the playoff system vs. a bowl. At the FBS level, there is a month off to recover bodies, take care of academics and finals, and at the end, a reward of a bowl and some fun --- and the schools don’t lose money like we do at the FCS level."

Thanks for highlighting this. I think it may be the best argument in favor of moving up. And I have to credit Bobby Hauck for emphasizing these points as well.

How much the health and well-being of student athletes is worth, in financial terms, is certainly debatable. But I don't think anybody can argue that a playoff schedule that goes on that long (if you're as fortunate as we've been) has a big impact on these kids.

 

[OrgonGriz]

At this point we all have to admit this thing has teeth and it is completely out of our hands.

Rep
On the the new Pres, he also would not want to be the one whom is responsible for not making the move up decision and causing even more cuts at UM and the risk of maybe being forced to reduce schollis and maybe the move down to Div II. There WILL BE risks for him either way and really either decsion he makes will be the wrong one in one groups eyes..

 

[FCS Go!]

What are the chances the WAC could offer UM more/complete control of it's own TV money without UM getting bumped out of any ESPN broadcast games? Has anyone heard anything re: how ESPN is responding to the WAC losing 3 of it's top 4 programs?

 

[PlayerRep]

"--- AND OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE: We are NOT considering the health and welfare of the student-athletes, who are having to spend at least one month of playing 4-5 more games --- which is permanently damaging their bodies – and hurting their academics. This is not fair to them – nor their coaches. This is where all of us are selfish, and want the playoff system vs. a bowl. At the FBS level, there is a month off to recover bodies, take care of academics and finals, and at the end, a reward of a bowl and some fun --- and the schools don’t lose money like we do at the FCS level."

Thanks for highlighting this. I think it may be the best argument in favor of moving up. And I have to credit Bobby Hauck for emphasizing these points as well.

How much the health and well-being of student athletes is worth, in financial terms, is certainly debatable. But I don't think anybody can argue that a playoff schedule that goes on that long (if you're as fortunate as we've been) has a big impact on these kids.

I don't think the players care about this. They love the playoffs. O'Day also speaks out of both sides of his mouth on this, as he talks about 12 games in I-A, a 13th game if Hawaii is played in Hawaii, and then there's the possible bowl game. So 14 games in a full year, compared to 15 games for the two I-AA teams that go all the way to the championship game. Forked-tongue.

 

[Maxim]

O'Day's just being a bit of an alarmist. He's overstating and exaggerating some things. By the way, I believe the playoff loss is $400,000, which is about what it's been in previous years. That is not a "ton" of money by ncaa standards. The playoffs are not in danger. Revenues are not "capped" at $13 milion. UM could increase revenues in various way, probably including student fees if done properly. He is overstating the Title IX risk. It is not really true that football breaks even, as for this calculation, he loads in a bunch of adminstrative and overhead costs (which are really not football expenses). I'm not aware that other schools do this, and there is no way that football costs $6.5 million. We may not be "guaranteed" home playoff games, but the fact is that UM has averaged about 8.5 home games in the past 10 or so years.

UM "lost" money going to Chatty because UM took way more than the allotted people. The athletic dept made the decision to take those extra people, and I have no problem with that. But don't claim that it's some big loss that couldn't have been avoided. I call BS to the statement that UM would have been in the MW now if it had gone to the WAC.

e. He points out some of the budget issues, which are real, but they are small in comparison to the cost of moving up (and moving up in a way that would be competitive).

What he hasn't said is that it will cost UM multi-millions per year in additional annual operating budget to move up and many millions of additional facilties costs. And that at least some major donors are not supportive of moving up (especially to the WAC) and other business donors, especially not Missoula businesses, are not supportive of something that would significantly reduce the number of home games in Missoula. He's also not saying that the numbers show that the shortfall in revenues to costs for moving up is far greater than any shortfall that is occurring now. What should UM jump from a warm frying pan into the fire?

He's also not saying that the WAC is desperate, and fighting for it's survival.

He is admitting that the new president and board of regents, not the AD, will make this decision. O'Day is speaking for himself. He's not speaking for the decisionmakers.

You are such an idiot sometimes Rep. A pompous moron to claim that you know more about the university and athletic budget then the AD, give me a break. Take your negative, bull-shit rheotoric elsewhere if you are just going to make up lies. You probably think strippers like you too, huh?

 

[PlayerRep]

At this point we all have to admit this thing has teeth and it is completely out of our hands.

Rep
On the the new Pres, he also would not want to be the one whom is responsible for not making the move up decision and causing even more cuts at UM and the risk of maybe being forced to reduce schollis and maybe the move down to Div II. There WILL BE risks for him either way and really either decsion he makes will be the wrong one in one groups eyes..

It may be out of your hands, but not mine. At the current level, costs can be cut, and revenues can be increased. UM isn't going to move down to D-II. There will be other opportunities to move up, if necessary. If the WAC wants UM now, it will want UM later when another WAC team leaves. It's only a matter of time before one or more other WAC teams leave. I suspect there will be more I-A conference realignment in the next several years, this will likely result in the WAC loser another school or two.

 

[JBS]

I keep hearing that once you accept an offer to move up to FBS you are no longer eligible for playoffs. Is this true? Also, just an observation to Player Rep. You stated that it makes no sense to move from a stable conference to an unstable one like the WAC. It seems to me that O'Day made it pretty clear that the Big Sky is far from stable. Don't get me wrong, I am in favor of staying where we are and playing for something at the end of the season, but it is sounding more and more like all is going to change regardless of what we do, and maybe getting out while the getting is good is the way to go. Not only does it seem we are carrying the BSC on our backs, but also the FCS. Interestingly enough, the tough season we are having this year may speed the whole process up. If the Griz miss the playoffs, or even end up with only 1 home game, it sounds like the revenue stream for the whole playoffs dries up. What depresses me is that if the Griz leave the conference, I don't know how it could survive at all. I think the whole conference would have to go DII. I hope the Bobcats get it together and move up before that happens or it may be too late for them.

 

[Grizmayor]

This shows that UM is SERIOUSLY considering this unlike many of the people talking trash saying its just info gathering etc for a far off someday trip.

Best info I have seen on this so far and makes it crystal clear why a move would be good IMO.　　If you read this and still think all is so great in Big Sky country you have brain damage. (Grizmayor, Playerrep and co. lol)

Put your money where your keypad is Toke... Write the check, baby. Or is it easier to spend other people's money?

 

[Harm]

so Rep, you'd have us again sit on the sidelines and get screwed out of possibly bettering the school in both rep and quality students as well as national rep. in order to sit on our hands and wait until the sky really falls instead of leading from the front. You say you don't think the new incoming pres would make a decision to jump, well I say why sit on the porch with one thumb up your ass, sucking on the other, while participating in the hope and change philosophy, which has been working smashingly so far in other areas..... I say the Pres. will be bold and make a name for himself right off the bat as an innovator who's not afraid to shoot for the fences in terms of wanting to make his new school better than what it was when he arrived. After all, isn't that what everyone who's successful in business wants, to make the business better than what it was when they first arrived. I believe this will put the U on better footing, both nationally for student recruitment in academics and sports. Not to mention it will raise the record number of students from 15k, which I think is a good starting point but certainly not the desired endpoint. In turn, the additional out of state students raise revenue, it is a symbiotic relationship of sorts... I think it's a good thing, why are you so against it? It seems like you are going to be seriously losing money in some fashion with how vehemently you are opposing such a move. Why not be bold and aim for the best??? It may be that's just my personality, but I abhore the regular and normal. If you can't run with the best, what the hell is the point? Stand out, or get the hell out of the picture!

 

[wisdomgriz]

This shows that UM is SERIOUSLY considering this unlike many of the people talking trash saying its just info gathering etc for a far off someday trip.

Best info I have seen on this so far and makes it crystal clear why a move would be good IMO.　　If you read this and still think all is so great in Big Sky country you have brain damage. (Grizmayor, Playerrep and co. lol)

Put your money where your keypad is Toke... Write the check, baby. Or is it easier to spend other people's money?

GizMayo, the writing is on the wall. O'Day just laid it out and you still don't get it.

 

[TheBud]

--- The FCS playoff system is hurting financially. We produced $1.1 million of last year’s budget of $2.5 million. The other 11 games produced less than $1 million TOTAL. The NCAA lost almost $500,000 again, and it will not continue to tolerate to follow this plan.

The NCAA can say they "lost" money but it's BS. The NCAA, as a whole (FBS/FCS), is making $$$$$$$$$$$$$.

The other part of this that does not make sense is the cost of DII and DIII play-offs. If the FCS is losing that much for the NCAA, how much are those divisions losing, which have virtually no revenue?

So, will the NCAA cut all of them? Wouldn't that cause quite an uproar?

 

[TheBud]

If the UofM was funded like MSU, we would have an additional $3 million = difference of the Institutional Support and higher Student Fees

 

[stubbins]

If the UofM was funded like MSU, we would have an additional $3 million = difference of the Institutional Support and higher Student Fees

Thank you. can someone please explain to me how we make more tv money, shitloads more ticket revenue, and somehow we can't come up with more money? If it truly costs five million more to move up, we should have 3 million in just ticket sales. Please someone who knows how the money is distributed from the universities explain this.

 

[MT Jack]

Well...O'Day's letter was a lot to digest. This conversation is better than any soap opera. Keep it up, egriz.

The Big Sky Conference/FCS will no doubt be weaker (in football at least) if the U of M leaves. I enjoy having the Griz in conference as they offer something for other programs to aspire to - on field product wise and fan support wise. Griz road football contests are the yearly "Super Bowl/playoffs atmosphere" for most other Big Sky programs. I hope you stick around and see more hard times than warm fuzzies if the Griz's future move to the FBS comes to fruition. But I can play devil's advocate and understand the allure and excitement to moving up.

 

[toledogrizfan]

I say we do nothing, close our eyes and ears and all this crazy talk concerning change will just go away in time.

Sincerely Yours,

Egriz Nation