Email from O'Day about the WAC, BSC & More.

[PlayerRep]

Where's your evidence or sources for this?

 

[Grizzlies1982]

Revenue: With a home/away deal we may get the Univ. of Texas in Missoula. Yet the Longhorns coming to town still generates the same revenue as Western St coming into Missoula (a sell out is a sell out).

Don't you think Texas would bring a few more fans with them than Western State? This is a point I've tried to make before. I know it's simplistic and doesn't consider everything, but say Texas brings 16k peeps with them -> much higher demand for tickets -> more revenue via higher prices or, if feasible for other games, increased capacity.

CDA, yes Texas would bring far more fans, though 16,000 sounds far too high. I also suspect their fans would spend far more while here than the typical Western State's fan does.

Regardless, our stadium still only holds 25,000 + no matter who comes to town, nor how many fans they bring. At present, even with the "lousy competion" so many complain of, we are already selling out the stadium each week (or darn close to it). Could we charge more? Maybe a little more. Though that is about maxed out. We already charge more than most, and considerably more than nearby ones.

We could expand the stadium. If we continue our winning ways perhaps we could keep 30,000 to 32,000 seats reasonably filled. Yet it doesn't make any sense to enlarge the stadium by much unless we were scheduling nothing but Texas, Nebraska, Michigan, Ohio State, etc... and they sent 3,000 to 5,000 fans to Missoula for each game. Realistically San Jose St., Louisiana Tech, etc... will never bring even 1,000.

In economic terms we are reaching the breaking point on price elasticity, and we've just about reached market saturation for consistently filling those seats with our state's limited population. There is room for growth in both, but it is rather limited no matter what we do, nor whom we play. That's my take. :ugeek:

 

[wisdomgriz]

Wiz-Dumb, or Cousin Fetty as we know him

Now THAT was F*cking funny!!!!!!!! Holy shit my gut is aching !!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Wow Hammer, doesn't take much for that simple mind of yours to get off does it. So who is the giver and receiver between you and GizMayo? Your anti-move up.orgy is getting smaller.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

CDA, yes Texas would bring far more fans, though 16,000 sounds far too high. I also suspect their fans would spend far more while here than the typical Western State's fan does.

Regardless, our stadium still only holds 25,000 + no matter who comes to town, nor how many fans they bring. At present, even with the "lousy competion" so many complain of, we are already selling out the stadium each week (or darn close to it). Could we charge more? Maybe a little more. Though that is about maxed out. We already charge more than most, and considerably more than nearby ones.

We could expand the stadium. If we continue our winning ways perhaps we could keep 30,000 to 32,000 seats reasonably filled. Yet it doesn't make any sense to enlarge the stadium by much unless we were scheduling nothing but Texas, Nebraska, Michigan, Ohio State, etc... and they sent 3,000 to 5,000 fans to Missoula for each game. Realistically San Jose St., Louisiana Tech, etc... will never bring even 1,000.

In economic terms we are reaching the breaking point on price elasticity, and we've just about reached market saturation for consistently filling those seats with our state's limited population. There is room for growth in both, but it is rather limited no matter what we do, nor whom we play. That's my take. :ugeek:

Haha. Yeah, 16k might be an overestimate. But seriously, not by much. These programs are ridiculously rabid. Yes, the lesser programs would bring far less. The general point, though, I think still is true: On average, whatever FBS foes we face in WA-Griz will bring more fans than the average at present. In turn, that is a valid consideration when analyzing the attendance and local revenue prospects associated with moving to the big show.

 

[Grizaholic16]

Great Job O'Day on this email. As said, it sets out alot of facts and pros and cons.

One thing I hate (because I am a student) is that we always b*tch about student athletic fees when Bozo's is nearly twice ours. I know money is a valuable thing, but in this sort of economy, more money needs to be put in to the pool. Just my two cents though.

Also...I was surprised (like many of you) at how much the Griz account for the playoff money pool. That stat was surprising. It's obvious that O'Day is leaning towards a move up, but it seems like he is almost trying to ignite a light in Griz Nation to get on the Prez and Regents about this.

I recall the Regents saying that a single move up (either UM or MSU) would never happen, and that it would have to be a joint move. Did I make that up?

 

[FCS Go!]

I recall the Regents saying that a single move up (either UM or MSU) would never happen, and that it would have to be a joint move. Did I make that up?

I think so. Many, many have said that on this board though.

If this were to come up with the BOR it should be noted that a move up by UM could pave the way for MSU to do the same when they are in a better position to do so. Don't put too much into the rivalry. State schools will still look out for each other when push comes to shove. Case in point: UVa basically said they would veto Miami and Boston College moving to the ACC if Va Tech was not brought in as well. The other ACC schools were not too keen on VT but desperately wanted Miami and BC. The Tech/UVa rivalry is nearly as intense as Griz/Cat (and equally as one-sided on the field).

 

[MadHatterGriz]

:clap: :shock:
I don't know if I should cry, cheer, or just be in shock over this info being released to GRIZ Nation, whether it is intentional or being leaked so we get a better understanding, or fleecing of a possible move to the FBS.
The Financial suicide that Brent Musberger stated could become a reality, or the reality of the FCS as we know it could become a nosedive into the turf, like a silvertip skydiver with a bad landing.
A question I have that was not addressed in the Email, Where would the funding come from to get us to the FBS and the WAC? We've heard that this move would cost us at least 5 million or MORE to do the stadium upgrades, additional scholarships and adding more lady's sports,(will basketball and all other sports make this move to the WAC),along with a loss of revenue from fans and corporate not supporting a losing team (as we won't become a Boise State overnite, and do not have the population center to support this and as stated were not guaranteed the huge TV contracts.)
Additionally the BCS is undergoing scrutiny from Congress and the nation concerning the way that the BCS awards bowl games and the politics that surrounds this. (Wouldn't it be ironic if the BCS went to a playoff system similar to the FCS.)
These are just a few thoughts of which there will be many, but i do agree with Jim O'Day that this decision should be based on facts and figures and not on ego and emotions. (not that GRIZ Nation has any of these traits, heck look at the debate over the hunting of wolves.)
The bottom line is we need ALL THE INFO we can get and that info is based on TOTAL facts and figures and is readily available to GRIZ Nation and the TAX PAYERS of the great state of Montana, so WE ALL can make a informed decision that will benefit GRIZ Nation for years to come.
GO GRIZ and let's support OUR teams in the good and in the bad. Be a True Fan, and an example to ALL!

 

[kemajic]

See the post on the first page by MrTitleist, and also the post by PlayerRep about the email chain from O'Day. The email seems to be legit based on their responses.

If you are concerned about it's authenticity, you could contact O'Day and find out I guess. I honestly don't see anything wrong with it being out there and public... If the Griz do move up it does a pretty good job explaining why.

And why not.

No, only PlayerRep and you do that. Your followers are dwindling and your stories are turning very lame.

 

[kemajic]

GizMayo, the writing is on the wall. O'Day just laid it out and you still don't get it.

Wisdom, you're right O'Day intends to move the Griz on, if he can. I think that is now obvious. He paints the bleakest picture for the FCS and the rosiest for FBS.

Yet, you don't seem to "get it" as to what Grizmayor is saying. O'Day hints at extra revenue in FBS yet he fails to mention how it still leaves Griz athletics several million dollars short each and every year. The mayor is just saying, "maybe we're moving on, yet nobody has figured out who is paying the cab fare."
:ugeek:

Part of O'Day's job is to keep the pressure on donors and to lobby for increased student fees. He never wants to come off that the AD is fine financially. GDs game was to rob from O'Day and make him accountable for replacement money. I've listed these tactics several times and there are more than I am aware of - tactics to neutralize the FB revenues. If it looked like FB was cash heavy, donors would have no pressure and the faculty would be in an uproar for more of the AD's money.

The decision to move up has been made; this is the start of the change management process, in which Jim is inexperienced.

 

[kemajic]

If the UofM was funded like MSU, we would have an additional $3 million = difference of the Institutional Support and higher Student Fees

Both Universities get the same amount from the state, It is how that is redistributed within each university that is different.

Also MSU has access to more grant monies (science based rather than liberal arts) which aids in administrative expenses outside of the athletic department so the administration does not need to rob from athletics like UM does.

IMO the problem is that the universities administration has milked too much out of the cash cow, now the cow is sick so O'Day thinks a new barn will help, never mind that the new barn will cost too much.

This is one of the reasons a chemist was chosen for our new president. He will focus more on research grants than his predecessor. However, there is little evidence the money skimmed from the AD went to research. Most seemed to indirectly fund Dennison's legacy projects, which were buildings, many of which had questionable need. The license and gear revenue went to the Bookstore; the game concessions went to the food service. Athletic scholarships are charged out at full cost, including out of state tuitions, even though they are incremental to the University. - and on and on.

 

[kemajic]

Additionally the FBS is undergoing scrutiny from Congress and the nation concerning the way that the FBS awards bowl games and the politics that surrounds this. (Wouldn't it be ironic if the FBS went to a playoff system similar to the FCS.)

The BCS is the target, not the FBS. Congressional action could easily benefit the non-BCS, FBS programs.

 

[one.yahoo]

Don't know if this e-mail is real or not.

If money is the big reason moving to a conference like the WAC is not a good choose. With the top 3 programs leaving and Hawaii thinking about going independent how much draw would the conference have for tv networks.

The pot of gold that people assume is there just is not that big.

Total Athletic Department (08-09)..........Revenue...............Expense..............+/-

Ohio State...... 119,711,581...... 119,859,608.... loss 148,027
Boise State..... 29,936,613...... 30,207,049.... loss 270,436
Montana........ 16,754,677...... 17,308,690.... loss 554,013

A little perspective, Ohio State received $0 in state and school support, Boise State $5,426,120, Montana $4,534,500.

As for WAC and MWC teams not playing FCS teams it is about the team and conference rankings and the money they would have to pay out and how bad it would be to lose to a FCS team.

As for Montana being able to save the WAC, it will only do so by giving the WAC enough teams to be bowl eligible.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/ncaa-finances.htm

 

[Sportin' Life]

If O'Day explains exactly where he found the millions needed to move, I'll support the decision.

Student fees

Look how much other schools lean on them, and considering how paltry ours are in comparison to other schools, it would only make sense that most of it comes from there.


And the students voted down an increase to turn an art annex into a members-only study lounge. Hard to see the average liberal arts major being against that :?

I think you have a point that students are willing to increase fees if there is something positive for them. Like anyone, a person wants to get something for what he is paying for. The art annex was a bad idea because it was way off campus. You can always spot an art student because they are always carrying something big and cumbersome, it makes no sense to ship those kids way off campus. And, as has been said, the new weight room and athlete-only lounge were not an easy sell.

But if you tell students that UofM will be entering a higher level of prestige and frankly the degree will be worth another 100 to 150 dollars a year, most will agree. Sure there are some that will still complain; some complain that there is any athletic department. But overall I think it is clear that a move up to the WAC positively affects the whole University. I know I would rather think of UM being mixed in with San Jose State, Hawaii, Fresno St, and Utah St. rather than the likes of EWU, Sac St. Portland St. and Northern Colorado.

 

[NavyBlue]

If I was the MWC and lost TCU, I think Montana would be a better fit for another team than any other WAC school. Screw the WAC, get into the MWC if FBS is the what you are going to do. The WAC is a dead end.

That might be a possibility with this move. Cleary the MWC is out of reach for UM now, but if UM begins this process with more conference movement the MWC could be the ultimate destination.

I find it very intersting that in reading this email that O'Day brought up many of the points that Kem, Silvertip, myself, and others have been saying for a long time. I thought that UM should have came into the WAC in 2005 with Utah State, New Mexico State, and Idaho. And with O'Day saying this move should have been made a few years ago it sounds as if he is now in agreement.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

What? UM was invited to join the WAC five years ago? That's news to me.

 

[kemajic]

If I was the MWC and lost TCU, I think Montana would be a better fit for another team than any other WAC school. Screw the WAC, get into the MWC if FBS is the what you are going to do. The WAC is a dead end.

That might be a possibility with this move. Cleary the MWC is out of reach for UM now, but if UM begins this process with more conference movement the MWC could be the ultimate destination.

I find it very intersting that in reading this email that O'Day brought up many of the points that Kem, Silvertip, myself, and others have been saying for a long time. I thought that UM should have came into the WAC in 2005 with Utah State, New Mexico State, and Idaho. And with O'Day saying this move should have been made a few years ago it sounds as if he is now in agreement.

That's about the time the AD "deficit" was exposed and Hogan took the fall. You have to suspect it was available, but was skuttled by Dennison and his crafty accounting.

 

[kemajic]

What? UM was invited to join the WAC five years ago? That's news to me.

Public invites are rarely put out to a program that hasn't agreed to accept, in private, so how would you know?

 

[AllWeatherFan]

Right back atcha, big guy.

 

[NavyBlue]

At the time that Idaho and Boise State joined the Big West the USU president at the time "King" George Emert told me that UM could have come along but chose to be a "big fish in a small pond". I was a student at the time and walked in to his office in Old Main and asked about UM and that is what he told me.

I was told by a former AD that UM could have come along at the time that USU and NMSU joined the WAC. If you remember those two were invited a while ahead of Idaho although the three started at the same time. He told me the WAC's first choice was MONTANA but when the Griz wouldn't come Idaho was extended and ivitation.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

That's interesting since Emert resigned in 2000.