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Krakaeur's book "Missoula" to be released April 21

getgrizzy said:
mtgrizrule said:
GG, yes you are right, the only people who know what went on that night are JJ and the accuser. So why do you excessively make points beyond that? There is no need to do so. The only thing that can change my opinion of this case is if later new evidence is found proving guilt 100%, JJ admits to getting away with it, or he later commits a similar crime.

In this situation, I doubt any of those things will happen. I know JJ and would be very surprised if he ever did what he was accused of doing.

Can you please let your obsession with this trial and outcome rest, and put it behind you? We all see that you are having trouble accepting or believing the outcome for whatever reasons. I am sure both JJ and the accuser will both admit, they made a mistake and had bad judgement that night. That is pretty typical of young adults.

I honestly don't understand why this case has to be rehashed over and over!!!
Good post. Aside from me being obsessed, I'm not, and accepting the outcome, I do, this is quality stuff and I agree. People are slowly coming around. Thanks!!

GG, I am not slowly coming around. I've post quite often that the only people who know exactly what happened are JJ and the accuser. I feel it really is not needed to post that, being most people consider that common sense. :thumb:
 
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EverettGriz said:
So now we're arguing about how many arrests are too many??

Can we all just agree that there were too many, be glad that that problem is now behind us, and move the eff on?

Believe me, this is what 98% of eGriz wants to do, and it's what 99.9999997% of Griz Nation wants to do.

Great post, and I believe that is exactly the point. Whether is was 1 or 100, it was too many, and we are glad it's behind us.

Unfortunately, "some people" just refuse move on.
 
mtgrizrule said:
getgrizzy said:
mtgrizrule said:
GG, yes you are right, the only people who know what went on that night are JJ and the accuser. So why do you excessively make points beyond that? There is no need to do so. The only thing that can change my opinion of this case is if later new evidence is found proving guilt 100%, JJ admits to getting away with it, or he later commits a similar crime.

In this situation, I doubt any of those things will happen. I know JJ and would be very surprised if he ever did what he was accused of doing.

Can you please let your obsession with this trial and outcome rest, and put it behind you? We all see that you are having trouble accepting or believing the outcome for whatever reasons. I am sure both JJ and the accuser will both admit, they made a mistake and had bad judgement that night. That is pretty typical of young adults.

I honestly don't understand why this case has to be rehashed over and over!!!
Good post. Aside from me being obsessed, I'm not, and accepting the outcome, I do, this is quality stuff and I agree. People are slowly coming around. Thanks!!

GG, I am not slowly coming around. I've post quite often that the only people who know exactly what happened are JJ and the accuser. I feel it really is not needed to post that, being most people consider that common sense. :thumb:
Didn't mean to imply that you were slowly coming around, just that posters collectively are coming around. Glad to see you get it. :thumb:
 
mtgrizrule said:
GG, I am not slowly coming around. I've post quite often that the only people who know exactly what happened are JJ and the accuser. I feel it really is not needed to post that, being most people consider that common sense. :thumb:


I'm guessing given the differing opinions of the two involved that they don't know what happened that night either.......
 
tnt said:
mtgrizrule said:
GG, I am not slowly coming around. I've post quite often that the only people who know exactly what happened are JJ and the accuser. I feel it really is not needed to post that, being most people consider that common sense. :thumb:


I'm guessing given the differing opinions of the two involved that they don't know what happened that night either.......


They know. I just won't go further into it. That is a baited hook. :thumb:
 
tnt said:
mtgrizrule said:
GG, I am not slowly coming around. I've post quite often that the only people who know exactly what happened are JJ and the accuser. I feel it really is not needed to post that, being most people consider that common sense. :thumb:
I'm guessing given the differing opinions of the two involved that they don't know what happened that night either.......
:shock:
:thumb:
Although, the case was over when she finished testifying. It wasn't that JJ saw it differently, it was the fact that she saw it differently, at different times, with different people, and depending on her mood, motive and objective on any given day, including "that" one. "It's all good, wanna have lunch," stood out.

This isn't a matter of "we'll never know," or only two people will "ever know." Horsepuckey.
The two "views" on what "happened" were quite consistent. Nobody needs to wrestle with any doubt as to what happened. We do know what happened. That was the problem with the case at the outset. And, wrestling with it two years later doesn't add any doubt to what was testified to; that's self-gratification to an abstract retroactive claim that "he coulda' been.' This wasn't because "beyond a reasonable doubt" was a high burden. It failed under "clear and convincing" and failed even a modest "preponderance of the evidence" test. "It" didn't happen. That was a conclusion reached at the end of her testimony and JJ's didn't change that because, in fact, the facts that were testified to were remarkably consistent.
 
mtgrizrule said:
tnt said:
mtgrizrule said:
GG, I am not slowly coming around. I've post quite often that the only people who know exactly what happened are JJ and the accuser. I feel it really is not needed to post that, being most people consider that common sense. :thumb:


I'm guessing given the differing opinions of the two involved that they don't know what happened that night either.......


They know. I just won't go further into it. That is a baited hook. :thumb:
Don't look at me. I ain't saying anything. :lol:
 
UMGriz75 said:
tnt said:
mtgrizrule said:
GG, I am not slowly coming around. I've post quite often that the only people who know exactly what happened are JJ and the accuser. I feel it really is not needed to post that, being most people consider that common sense. :thumb:
I'm guessing given the differing opinions of the two involved that they don't know what happened that night either.......
:shock:
:thumb:
It wasn't that JJ saw it differently,
Huh?
 
getgrizzy said:
mtgrizrule said:
tnt said:
mtgrizrule said:
GG, I am not slowly coming around. I've post quite often that the only people who know exactly what happened are JJ and the accuser. I feel it really is not needed to post that, being most people consider that common sense. :thumb:


I'm guessing given the differing opinions of the two involved that they don't know what happened that night either.......


They know. I just won't go further into it. That is a baited hook. :thumb:
Don't look at me. I ain't saying anything. :lol:


:clap: :lol:
 
UMGriz75 said:
tnt said:
mtgrizrule said:
GG, I am not slowly coming around. I've post quite often that the only people who know exactly what happened are JJ and the accuser. I feel it really is not needed to post that, being most people consider that common sense. :thumb:
I'm guessing given the differing opinions of the two involved that they don't know what happened that night either.......
:shock:
:thumb:
Although, the case was over when she finished testifying. It wasn't that JJ saw it differently, it was the fact that she saw it differently, at different times, with different people, and depending on her mood, motive and objective on any given day, including "that" one. "It's all good, wanna have lunch," stood out.

This isn't a matter of "we'll never know," or only two people will "ever know." Horsepuckey.
The two "views" on what "happened" were quite consistent. Nobody needs to wrestle with any doubt as to what happened. We do know what happened. That was the problem with the case at the outset. And, wrestling with it two years later doesn't add any doubt to what was testified to; that's self-gratification to an abstract retroactive claim that "he coulda' been.' This wasn't because "beyond a reasonable doubt" was a high burden. It failed under "clear and convincing" and failed even a modest "preponderance of the evidence" test. "It" didn't happen. That was a conclusion reached at the end of her testimony and JJ's didn't change that because, in fact, the facts that were testified to were remarkably consistent.


I can promise you at least once and prolly more than once JJ asked himself "what the hell happened there?"
 
Would one of you gun nuts kindly shoot this thread to hell and let us get some relief?



And don't wound this bastard, kill it dead!
 
Even if this thread dies out over the next week or so, I think an epic resurgence around the 21st of April will push it into the 40 page range :coffee:
 
A recent Engstrom mailing. Might this be done in anticipation of the Krakauer book? Looks like it's not only GG who's doing early preparation. Maybe a preemptory ad/petition too?

"Dear Friends and Colleagues,

Almost two years ago, we announced the resolution of the federal government’s investigations into UM’s handling of sexual assault and harassment. Today, there’s another story to tell about our campus and about the community of Missoula. Because of the hard work of many people, Missoula and UM have made important and lasting changes.

From the moment I learned of a number of sexual assaults on our campus, my goals have been clear: 1) to care for the victims, 2) to rid our campus of known offenders and 3) to eliminate threats to UM’s healthy and safe learning environment.

UM’s work has come at the same time that the issue of sexual assault on college campuses continues to grow in importance and visibility:
• For much of the past year, the White House, Congress and state legislatures discussed how to ensure that colleges and universities effectively address sexual violence involving students.
• The number of institutions currently under federal investigation has grown to at least 97.
• “The Hunting Ground” and “It Happened Here,” documentaries about rape on college campuses, will be released this spring.
• And, as most of you are aware, Doubleday has announced that Jon Krakauer’s next book is titled “Missoula: Rape and the Justice System In a College Town” and will be released in late April.

This broad-based attention to sexual assault can help. Victims are coming forward and speaking out; cities and campuses are improving their responses, coordination and outreach; and training and education for all of us in higher education are better than just a year or two ago.

UM is focused on providing all our students and employees a safe learning and living environment. Our approach is to acknowledge problems when we find them and tackle them immediately. We believe safety is a community issue – we must take care of one another, and this expectation applies to all members of the UM family.

Our work isn’t limited to the boundaries of campus. The city of Missoula, under the leadership of Mayor John Engen, and the University are collaborating more closely than ever before. Other universities and police departments nationally contact the city and UM asking for advice and for samples of the tools and resources we’ve developed. We are known for our leadership in addressing sexual violence and working to strengthen our community.

Some of our efforts include:

Education and training. PETSA, our online tutorial about sexual assault, is mandatory for all students to complete. To date, more than 23,000 UM students have participated in the program. The entire Montana University System now requires all students to have online training to bring awareness to and help prevent sexual assault. Access to PETSA’s curriculum has been requested by more than 25 institutions across the country.

UM staff, faculty and administrators also have taken our online tutorial about discrimination and sexual violence.

UM police officers have received more than 800 hours of training, covering topics ranging from sexual assault investigations to learning more effective and caring ways to assist and interview victims of trauma.

Student activities. UM has about two dozen peer educators – students who’ve received bystander intervention training and now train fellow students.

Just two weeks ago, a new program started in the residence halls called “The Bystander Revolution,” which is organized by the Student Advocacy Resource Center (SARC) and the Advocates for Non-Violence. Presentations were given to students in all of the residence halls; now it is being offered to the fraternities and sororities. This training also is being offered to individual classes through another SARC program called “Don’t Cancel That Class.” The goal is to develop and promote awareness about the problem of sexual violence and to empower students to look out for each other.

Personnel. We have faculty and staff dedicated to administering and improving PETSA and our campus climate surveys, and faculty members are teaching new classes or adding modules to current classes.

In addition, we’ve added:
• Two police officers with a strong focus on community outreach, not just enforcement.
• A University coordinator for prevention education, who covers a range of topics that include domestic violence, sexual assault and stalking.

Collaboration across campus. UM has a Case Review Process to help key partners coordinate our response to reports of sexual violence. Monthly case review sessions include UM Police, Residence Life, the dean of students, the Title IX Office, the campus assault prevention coordinator and SARC. Other universities have asked us to share information about UM’s process.

Collaboration across town. UM is more closely coordinated with Missoula law enforcement, community advocacy services and the prosecutor’s office. We train, work and strategize together. The federal investigations didn’t cause this collaboration, but their review helped us see the gaps and opportunities in our processes. Next month, the second edition of a city-UM pamphlet will be published, outlining the community’s collective resources on sexual assault.

Even small details make a difference. All new UM Griz Cards have contact information for SARC, the dean of students, UM Police, the Title IX Office and Missoula 9-1-1 services. Students now have information at their fingertips at all times.

As UM continues working on campus safety, we also are mindful of our obligations to protect students’ privacy. With limited exceptions, information about students who find themselves involved in University grievance procedures involving discrimination, harassment, sexual misconduct, stalking and retaliation cannot and will not be shared with the public. Respecting students’ privacy is important to the integrity of our grievance process and is in the best interests of all of our students.

UM’s efforts are ongoing for achieving our safety, community and communications goals. We are addressing our challenges head on and hosting essential and tough conversations. We are committed to doing the hard work necessary to create a campus environment that meets the expectations of our students and their families.

Thank you for your support as we continue our collective efforts to tackle this critical issue in higher education.

Sincerely,


Royce C. Engstrom
President
University of Montana
 
MISSOULA - Fewer students are enrolling in classes at the University of Montana.

Figures released Tuesday show that the 2015 spring semester headcount at the UM is 12,922, marking a 4.7% decrease from a year ago.

UM officials said in a news release the downturn was expected, and the current number meets the University's enrollment and budget projections for this fiscal year. :clap:

“We are where we projected we would be, given our fall enrollment numbers,” UM President Royce Engstrom said. “Our enrollment picture remains challenging as several smaller classes continue to move through our system, but we see encouraging signs for the future.”
...
A spring headcount at Missoula College came in at 1,859, a 10.9% decline compared to a year ago.
http://wn.kpax.com/story/28252355/spring-enrollment-numbers-fall-at-university-of-montana" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

All is well. All is well.
 
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