Kraukauer's in Town

[UMGriz75]

The overwhelming theme in the book is binge drinking and impaired choices. Secondly, in general our lack of acknowledgement that rape isn't limited to an unknown assailant in a dark alley. I wish I had the answers, because it keeps me awake at night sometimes when I think of my two girls out there. No woman deserves to be raped, we all understand that and I think would agree with that premise.

The problem is "what to do about it." The prevailing solution is to impose on males the entirety of the responsibility, while drunk, and absolve entirely, the female, while drunk.

Will that "solve the problem" or simply create more injustice?

The contrast in standards -- diametric opposites -- presumes that women are fragile, easily exploited, and invariably irresponsible when drunk.

It's a nice bit of sexism all on its own. That's exactly the opposite of what women should be taught and encouraged to do: take responsibility, take control, and manage their lives and social habits.

Binge drinking is a problem on campus, but statistically, the incidence of rape is lower than among similar non-college young people of the same age group, and the rate has been declining substantially for the past 20 years. Apparently, "alcohol awareness" programs have had success, but that had to have been because of an emphasis that it is a "problem" for both young men and woman.

And alcohol is certainly not "the" driver of rape claims. The astonishing number of demonstrably false claims, given wide prominence precisely because they were supposed to be representative of the "narrative" -- a'la Rolling Stone, Mattress Girl, Duke LaCrosse, the "UM Gang Rape," and Brian Banks -- are claims made days or even months after the "events," and made more so in reference to intervening social causes and needs; indeed that "alcohol" was the pretext for the claim, not the cause. "I was drunk" becomes an exculpation for women, and a conviction for men.

Recall the days of segregated dorms, chaperones, all sorts of rules, and the "liberation" from those restrictions because of their "overprotectiveness" of women, who should instead be treated as social equals, completely capable of monitoring their own lives and interactions. Because, "equality!" Now, women are being infantilized in precisely the same way as early Co-education efforts. "Women cannot be responsible." While that has political power against social justice targets, is that really the appropriate message?

I am noting here the quoted comment. These are not dark alley encounters. These are social situations in which all parties have some measure of control.

 

[cameo]

I did read the book. My consensus is to not expect anything of value and you won't be disappointed. The book is primarily a collection of transcripts and opinions of the meaning on the testimony. Remember, Krakhauer is an author, not a reporter. His books express his opinions, as is his right as an author. I found the book to be quite boring because he mainly wrote what others said. He personally selects his heroes and villains. The book has no real story, only the retelling of incidents in his own way. His story is designed to create offense towards the police and prosecution, and sympathy towards the complainants and university officials. Take each with a grain of salt as none are completely factual.

 

[Born2BaGriz]

The problem is "what to do about it." The prevailing solution is to impose on males the entirety of the responsibility, while drunk, and absolve entirely, the female, while drunk.

Will that "solve the problem" or simply create more injustice?

The contrast in standards -- diametric opposites -- presumes that women are fragile, easily exploited, and invariably irresponsible when drunk.

It's a nice bit of sexism all on its own. That's exactly the opposite of what women should be taught and encouraged to do: take responsibility, take control, and manage their lives and social habits.

I don't disagree with this at all. We attempted to make sure with our girls they understand their role in being responsible, watch out for each other and do the simple things like don't accept a drink that you didn't see poured, etc. I told my wife that if I were a young man today, I would almost have a form to have signed or record her acknowledgement on my phone but then that wouldn't even save you much if a girl decided to accuse you.

But then I do believe that most people that read the book without an agenda will concede it isn't well written and was done for the sole purpose of using highly publicized events to sell books all the while using the guise of it is about the victims. What Donaldson did was inexcusable, but that is vastly different then the other examples in the book. I have empathy for the victims, I just don't have a solution.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

Of her own violation, she doesn't date either of them any longer, doesn't speak ill of them and still has some limited contact with them.

I think you mean "volition."

 

[Allezchat]

Good info. I wonder why he would still be pursuing the ultimate release of the info when the book has been released for months. The financial stuff seems to be sorted, so what is the motivation? Second edition? Or, ratification of previous inclusion of information? Maybe I'm over-thinking something for the first time ever.

This could ultimately become another cereal thread. May our children forgive us.

Second book. Though it has already been used, the new working title for the next volume includes the phrase " I'm back for more cash."

Who here has actually read the book? I'm a former player, alum and father of one female student with a second one headed that way. As a family, we purchased one copy, read it and passed it to the next. I'm not going to give a full review here, and don't believe it to be an outstanding book by any means. In general, my take on it is that he takes a lot of conjecture and provides only the facts that support his view. I wouldn't say he mis represents facts, but certainly puts his spin on it.

I played for Larry Donovan and fortunately, Don Read. It was a very different time in Grizzly football. As an example, my daughter dated two players, one of which is a major contributor, while the other is a further down the depth chart. Both were very respectful when met, but my daughter confided in the simple fact that when around campus one was very different. Of her own violation, she doesn't date either of them any longer, doesn't speak ill of them and still has some limited contact with them. However, she just mentioned the team in general has an attitude. But in her defense, she did say a lot of the other teams have attitudes as well and as with any group like that, some of which is to be expected. I pointed out that even when I played, and we weren't a 1/4 of the deal the team is now, we had bravado and could be exclusive. But, I also didn't live in a instant media world back then. Things happened, and word didn't get out. To me, the team is being scrutinized at a high level and there is a medium in place to immediately publish any transgression. That being said, it doesn't justify unacceptable behavior.

The overwhelming theme in the book is binge drinking and impaired choices. Secondly, in general our lack of acknowledgement that rape isn't limited to an unknown assailant in a dark alley. I wish I had the answers, because it keeps me awake at night sometimes when I think of my two girls out there. No woman deserves to be raped, we all understand that and I think would agree with that premise. If I really believed Missoula was any worse then any other similar institution, I would not have allowed my girls to attend. The bottom line was there was increased publicity and it provided the vehicle for his book and he is going to ride it until it is out of gas.

Great post. And great to see a little insight from a player and from a girl that dated a couple players.

 

[UMGriz75]

I don't disagree with this at all. We attempted to make sure with our girls they understand their role in being responsible, watch out for each other and do the simple things like don't accept a drink that you didn't see poured, etc. I told my wife that if I were a young man today, I would almost have a form to have signed or record her acknowledgement on my phone but then that wouldn't even save you much if a girl decided to accuse you.

We taught the following for UM students, in terms of what to do and how to do it:

1) Physical awareness
2) Psychological awareness
3) Social awareness
4) Legal awareness

In other words, "how to be responsible" and "how to respond."

In the classes, we asked Frat guys and Athletes to participate so that the women (and some guys that took the classes) would have actual men to work with on physical defenses, role-playing for psychological training, and situational social interactions. The girls just loved that. They could crank around on these big strong guys and actually develop feasible skillsets that took into account big, strong, aggressive guys. How to "act" when a guy acted inappropriately verbally or physically before even reaching an "assault" level. How to react after it has reached the assault level. Discussion sessions among the girls, and among the girls and guys about experiences, motivations, and communication, including "signalling" and improper "signalling."

Municipal Court Judge Don Louden and Crime Victims Advocates would come and speak to the reporting and evidentiary requirements for reporting assault or rape, including getting restraining orders against stalking. The students got samples of the forms. They saw that there were real people out there to assist them, learned where to find them and how to contact them.

The students themselves (as homework assignments) devised refrigerator magnets with all the necessary phone numbers and resources, and we asked that not just students but sororities and "especially" fraternities put them on the refrigerator doors (where they would be seen each time getting the beer).

The courses got uniformly high reviews from the students for the years we taught it.