MSU makes list of biggest college/degree $ wastes

[WaGriz4life]

 

[cclarkblues]

CDA, i think i now understand your joke: it is pointless to argue an "unstoppable" theory from DaveyDuece. Great foresight there.

D2, I don't even know where to start. If you did attend college I assume you didn't finish or else you'd understand how some classes lay the foundation for later ones (and are sometimes taught by the same profs). Organic chem doesn't even touch geology so how exactly would it prepare you for advanced petro courses?

I don't want to maintain the "status quo" as you claim. All the small schools (other than Tech) can eat shit and die for all i care. As I said, you may be on to something but you're taking it way to far. You want to make tech a two-year school and believe it will somehow still maintain its superiority. That's dumber than putting a dome over WaGriz.

To be fair, it was a half-dome that was suggested. Or was it 3/8...

 

[Grizzoola]

CDA, i think i now understand your joke: it is pointless to argue an "unstoppable" theory from DaveyDuece. Great foresight there.

D2, I don't even know where to start. If you did attend college I assume you didn't finish or else you'd understand how some classes lay the foundation for later ones (and are sometimes taught by the same profs). Organic chem doesn't even touch geology so how exactly would it prepare you for advanced petro courses?

I don't want to maintain the "status quo" as you claim. All the small schools (other than Tech) can eat shit and die for all i care. As I said, you may be on to something but you're taking it way to far. You want to make tech a two-year school and believe it will somehow still maintain its superiority. That's dumber than putting a dome over WaGriz.

So, tell me how a 200 geology course at Tech is different than one at UM/MSU/community college? Don't they both teach the same thing? Oh, our poor kiddies need to have a papa to continue their ed. If a kid is bright and mature enough, he/she won't care who's teaching the course. (Or shouldn't.)

What makes you think a prof at Tech is superior in teaching 200 organic chemistry/geology than a prof at UM/MSU/community college? It's the same damned material! Any bright student at a CC is as capable of handling 300 courses at Tech as at any other institution. And, believe it or not, there are bright, talented students and faculty at CCs. Perfectly capable of learning/teaching 100, 200 courses. Man, your snobbery is overpowering.

Don't get me started on the dome thing. Well, you did. Back when, you guys & many boosters were all for holding the FCS NC, in Missoula no less. The thing is, you guys tried to get it on the cheap & the FCS didn't go for it. I said the only way to attract a national attendance in the dead of Jan. was to put a dome over WaGriz. It was an offhand, a bit tongue-in-cheek, remark.

Speaking of stupid ideas, you guys take the cake. Remember all the posts/threads to rename College Drive, Don Read Drive? Titleist can correct me on this, but that topic generated right up there with # of posts. So, forget my "dome" idea & I'll forget your "Don Read Drive" and "FCS NC in Missoula" idea.

 

['68griz]

Jumping around from school to school is never a positive thing for anyone. Having a class offered at only one institution throughout a college system is about as stupid as any suggestion I've heard in years. Try making this suggestion to the university/college system in California, for example.

 

[garizzalies]

Deesnuts,
68 gets it.
Let me try to put her comment another way.
Before you post one of your "theories" ask yourself, "why am i the first one to think of this?"

 

[Grizzoola]

Jumping around from school to school is never a positive thing for anyone. Having a class offered at only one institution throughout a college system is about as stupid as any suggestion I've heard in years. Try making this suggestion to the university/college system in California, for example.

Where did I say that a course would be offered at only one institution? What are you talking about? I only suggested that if a student enters MT Tech needing remedial work (which I doubt) to handle a 300 "petro" course, then Tech could offer it.

I remain confident that any student coming to Tech from either UM, MSU, or a community college could handle that mysterious 300 "petro" course. I'm sure any student wishing to matriculate to the MT Technical Institute already has a pretty good idea of what he/she is getting into & will prepare accordingly.

So, tell me: Why, if a student completes a 200 level in organic chemistry at UM, MSU, or a community college, that student could not handle a 300 "petro" class at Tech?

And likening the MT higher ed. system to CA's, structurally, is comparing a pigmy to a giant. There are community colleges in CA that are as large as the entire higher ed. student population in MT.

 

[ordigger]

CDA, i think i now understand your joke: it is pointless to argue an "unstoppable" theory from DaveyDuece. Great foresight there.

D2, I don't even know where to start. If you did attend college I assume you didn't finish or else you'd understand how some classes lay the foundation for later ones (and are sometimes taught by the same profs). Organic chem doesn't even touch geology so how exactly would it prepare you for advanced petro courses?

I don't want to maintain the "status quo" as you claim. All the small schools (other than Tech) can eat shit and die for all i care. As I said, you may be on to something but you're taking it way to far. You want to make tech a two-year school and believe it will somehow still maintain its superiority. That's dumber than putting a dome over WaGriz.

So, tell me how a 200 geology course at Tech is different than one at UM/MSU/community college? Don't they both teach the same thing? Oh, our poor kiddies need to have a papa to continue their ed. If a kid is bright and mature enough, he/she won't care who's teaching the course. (Or shouldn't.)

What makes you think a prof at Tech is superior in teaching 200 organic chemistry/geology than a prof at UM/MSU/community college? It's the same damned material! Any bright student at a CC is as capable of handling 300 courses at Tech as at any other institution. And, believe it or not, there are bright, talented students and faculty at CCs. Perfectly capable of learning/teaching 100, 200 courses. Man, your snobbery is overpowering.

Don't get me started on the dome thing. Well, you did. Back when, you guys & many boosters were all for holding the FCS NC, in Missoula no less. The thing is, you guys tried to get it on the cheap & the FCS didn't go for it. I said the only way to attract a national attendance in the dead of Jan. was to put a dome over WaGriz. It was an offhand, a bit tongue-in-cheek, remark.

Speaking of stupid ideas, you guys take the cake. Remember all the posts/threads to rename College Drive, Don Read Drive? Titleist can correct me on this, but that topic generated right up there with # of posts. So, forget my "dome" idea & I'll forget your "Don Read Drive" and "FCS NC in Missoula" idea.

I can't answer for the here and now at Tech, but back when I was there the Intro classes are not even close to be the same. Since my degree is in Geological Engineering, and closely corresponds with whatever point you're trying to make let me give this a go.

-- Intro classes at UM were insane with HUNDREDS of students in those classes. I think my biggest class at Tech had maybe 60 students. It was the fact that I worked DIRECTLY with the professors early on that made it much more rewarding where many classes at UM you had TA's running things. When I hit the advanced classes I had established my educational relationships.

-- At Tech all professors at that time were required to have advanced degrees, not true at UM. I'll stop there....but that was a major selling point for me.

-- Tech is a engineering school, my prep classes were preparing me very early on for that from an ENGINEERING stand point. The intro geology classes were different.

-- There were intro classes for Mining, Geophysical and Petroleum engineering that were needed to be taken early on to "migrate" through your degree progra. You delay those classes by 1-2 years at another instituion it will back everything up and now you're a 5th year senior. ADDED expense.

-- The education at Tech was, and I assume is one of the best colleges in the country. I am a better person because I went to Tech all FOUR years.What decisions do I make if I go to another school and transfer in? I had options to go to WVU, OkSU, MsSU and MIT. Costs were insane at some of those schools for someone like me, even with partial scholarship. Tech allowed me to get that type of education for minimal expense.

-- Although I understand a bit for schools that may duplicate program, ie Western Montana (then) I still believe there is a inherent impact on local communities to have these schools. It creates jobs and drives the local economy, including small businesses.

The answer is better management and less politics. Waste can be mananged. I used to manage for a marketing firm that had its BEST years, when the economy was faltering. Was it because their product improved? Somewhat yes, but in truth it was they learned how to eliminate millions of dollars in and create profits during a rough time.

 

[Grizzly Oredigger]

CDA, i think i now understand your joke: it is pointless to argue an "unstoppable" theory from DaveyDuece. Great foresight there.

D2, I don't even know where to start. If you did attend college I assume you didn't finish or else you'd understand how some classes lay the foundation for later ones (and are sometimes taught by the same profs). Organic chem doesn't even touch geology so how exactly would it prepare you for advanced petro courses?

I don't want to maintain the "status quo" as you claim. All the small schools (other than Tech) can eat shit and die for all i care. As I said, you may be on to something but you're taking it way to far. You want to make tech a two-year school and believe it will somehow still maintain its superiority. That's dumber than putting a dome over WaGriz.

So, tell me how a 200 geology course at Tech is different than one at UM/MSU/community college? Don't they both teach the same thing? Oh, our poor kiddies need to have a papa to continue their ed. If a kid is bright and mature enough, he/she won't care who's teaching the course. (Or shouldn't.)

What makes you think a prof at Tech is superior in teaching 200 organic chemistry/geology than a prof at UM/MSU/community college? It's the same damned material! Any bright student at a CC is as capable of handling 300 courses at Tech as at any other institution. And, believe it or not, there are bright, talented students and faculty at CCs. Perfectly capable of learning/teaching 100, 200 courses. Man, your snobbery is overpowering.

Don't get me started on the dome thing. Well, you did. Back when, you guys & many boosters were all for holding the FCS NC, in Missoula no less. The thing is, you guys tried to get it on the cheap & the FCS didn't go for it. I said the only way to attract a national attendance in the dead of Jan. was to put a dome over WaGriz. It was an offhand, a bit tongue-in-cheek, remark.

Speaking of stupid ideas, you guys take the cake. Remember all the posts/threads to rename College Drive, Don Read Drive? Titleist can correct me on this, but that topic generated right up there with # of posts. So, forget my "dome" idea & I'll forget your "Don Read Drive" and "FCS NC in Missoula" idea.

I can't answer for the here and now at Tech, but back when I was there the Intro classes are not even close to be the same. Since my degree is in Geological Engineering, and closely corresponds with whatever point you're trying to make let me give this a go.

-- Intro classes at UM were insane with HUNDREDS of students in those classes. I think my biggest class at Tech had maybe 60 students. It was the fact that I worked DIRECTLY with the professors early on that made it much more rewarding where many classes at UM you had TA's running things. When I hit the advanced classes I had established my educational relationships.

-- At Tech all professors at that time were required to have advanced degrees, not true at UM. I'll stop there....but that was a major selling point for me.

-- Tech is a engineering school, my prep classes were preparing me very early on for that from an ENGINEERING stand point. The intro geology classes were different.

-- There were intro classes for Mining, Geophysical and Petroleum engineering that were needed to be taken early on to "migrate" through your degree progra. You delay those classes by 1-2 years at another instituion it will back everything up and now you're a 5th year senior. ADDED expense.

-- The education at Tech was, and I assume is one of the best colleges in the country. I am a better person because I went to Tech all FOUR years.What decisions do I make if I go to another school and transfer in? I had options to go to WVU, OkSU, MsSU and MIT. Costs were insane at some of those schools for someone like me, even with partial scholarship. Tech allowed me to get that type of education for minimal expense.

-- Although I understand a bit for schools that may duplicate program, ie Western Montana (then) I still believe there is a inherent impact on local communities to have these schools. It creates jobs and drives the local economy, including small businesses.

The answer is better management and less politics. Waste can be mananged. I used to manage for a marketing firm that had its BEST years, when the economy was faltering. Was it because their product improved? Somewhat yes, but in truth it was they learned how to eliminate millions of dollars in and create profits during a rough time.

Yes I agree with you...intro classes were definitely geared with engineering in mind. Good summary. I have always been thankful for Montana Tech, since, as a lifelong Griz fan who wanted to be an engineer, I didn't have to go to MSU!

 

[Grizzoola]

My thanks to the two "orediggers," who have educated me and answered my questions, although re: Tech, there seems to be factors other than subject matter that explain Tech's uniqueness and excellence. For one, Tech offers constant contact from freshman to senior with experienced, dedicated teachers. For another, the smaller classes, providing a more intimate learning experience. I can see that. In other words, it's a certain mindset that's generated, which does not necessarily hold for the larger, more impersonal institutions.

This may be as valuable, if not more valuable, than the subject matter. I concede to leave Tech alone, altho basic subjects such as English, history, basic sciences, etc., the liberal arts subjects, could be handled by UM, MSU, or, say Highlands College. But, that would involve too much complication. So, leave Tech alone.

My only point is that MT needs to take a good look at the present duplication of BA degrees in education, business, and liberal arts (general ed.) subjects. Really, do we need 6 separate BA programs in those subjects in this state, when UM and MSU could do it?

My point is that MT does not need 6 separate BA programs in education, business, and liberal arts majors. I also understand that Montanans prize their local institutions, not only for the convenience of obtaining a BA close to home, but for the economic benefits to the communities. As that is the case, then let's not whine about wasted $ in our higher ed. system. Apparently it is not money wasted in those communities with those 6 BA awarding schools.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

My thanks to the two "orediggers," who have educated me and answered my questions, although re: Tech, there seems to be factors other than subject matter that explain Tech's uniqueness and excellence. For one, Tech offers constant contact from freshman to senior with experienced, dedicated teachers. For another, the smaller classes, providing a more intimate learning experience. I can see that. In other words, it's a certain mindset that's generated, which does not necessarily hold for the larger, more impersonal institutions.

This may be as valuable, if not more valuable, than the subject matter. I concede to leave Tech alone, altho basic subjects such as English, history, basic sciences, etc., the liberal arts subjects, could be handled by UM, MSU, or, say Highlands College. But, that would involve too much complication. So, leave Tech alone.

My only point is that MT needs to take a good look at the present duplication of BA degrees in education, business, and liberal arts (general ed.) subjects. Really, do we need 6 separate BA programs in those subjects in this state, when UM and MSU could do it?

My point is that MT does not need 6 separate BA programs in education, business, and liberal arts majors. I also understand that Montanans prize their local institutions, not only for the convenience of obtaining a BA close to home, but for the economic benefits to the communities. As that is the case, then let's not whine about wasted $ in our higher ed. system. Apparently it is not money wasted in those communities with those 6 BA awarding schools.

Screw that, Dave! I like your original idea. A class that teaches people how to drive trains full of petroleum doesn't need its own campus.

 

[MrTitleist]

To both Oredigger's points, your first two years aren't just spent taking some jackoff classes that make no sense to your major (like English and Sociology classes for engineering majors), but you're also taking degree specific intro classes to your major.. UM isn't going to offer a 100 level Intro to Petroleum Engineering type of class.. so you'd be wasting your time at UM instead taking freshman level classes. My engineering major at Wyoming wasn't just math and English lit, it was also Computer Science classes too.

 

[snap]

To both Oredigger's points, your first two years aren't just spent taking some jackoff classes that make no sense to your major (like English and Sociology classes for engineering majors), but you're also taking degree specific intro classes to your major.. UM isn't going to offer a 100 level Intro to Petroleum Engineering type of class.. so you'd be wasting your time at UM instead taking freshman level classes. My engineering major at Wyoming wasn't just math and English lit, it was also Computer Science classes too.

Wyoming sucks. Fuck Wyoming and Fuck you.

 

[Grizzoola]

My thanks to the two "orediggers," who have educated me and answered my questions, although re: Tech, there seems to be factors other than subject matter that explain Tech's uniqueness and excellence. For one, Tech offers constant contact from freshman to senior with experienced, dedicated teachers. For another, the smaller classes, providing a more intimate learning experience. I can see that. In other words, it's a certain mindset that's generated, which does not necessarily hold for the larger, more impersonal institutions.

This may be as valuable, if not more valuable, than the subject matter. I concede to leave Tech alone, altho basic subjects such as English, history, basic sciences, etc., the liberal arts subjects, could be handled by UM, MSU, or, say Highlands College. But, that would involve too much complication. So, leave Tech alone.

My only point is that MT needs to take a good look at the present duplication of BA degrees in education, business, and liberal arts (general ed.) subjects. Really, do we need 6 separate BA programs in those subjects in this state, when UM and MSU could do it?

My point is that MT does not need 6 separate BA programs in education, business, and liberal arts majors. I also understand that Montanans prize their local institutions, not only for the convenience of obtaining a BA close to home, but for the economic benefits to the communities. As that is the case, then let's not whine about wasted $ in our higher ed. system. Apparently it is not money wasted in those communities with those 6 BA awarding schools.

Screw that, Dave! I like your original idea. A class that teaches people how to drive trains full of petroleum doesn't need its own campus.

Well, then, MT Tech & MSU need to develop programs in nuclear energy to replace petroleum for our energy needs. That's what it has to come to. Wind and solar are insufficient on an industrial scale. Good for individual residences and businesses, but nothing else. Hydro is becoming less important; the enviros have won there.

Eastern MT is prime territory for buried nuclear reactors in spent open-pit coal mines. Nuclear is now in Generation IV. I believe 3 Mile Island was Gen II. Many reactors don't need water. MT & points south to the Mexican border are relatively free of seismic activity. No tsunamis, etc.

America has to get off its phobia about nuclear and embrace it; it's the only way we can go into the future. Ensure safety by government ownership, oversight, and management, like our nuclear Navy. Get profit out of it; companies cut corners in the name of profit. We need another Admiral Hyman Rickover to oversee this effort. What has it been, 40, 50 years of nuclear Navy & not one accident, due to nuclear?

MT could be in on the ground floor of such an effort, with Tech & MSU leading the way. It's going to come; it has to come. Where will we get all the clean juice to power our Teslas?

 

[MrTitleist]

To both Oredigger's points, your first two years aren't just spent taking some jackoff classes that make no sense to your major (like English and Sociology classes for engineering majors), but you're also taking degree specific intro classes to your major.. UM isn't going to offer a 100 level Intro to Petroleum Engineering type of class.. so you'd be wasting your time at UM instead taking freshman level classes. My engineering major at Wyoming wasn't just math and English lit, it was also Computer Science classes too.

Wyoming sucks. Fuck Wyoming and Fuck you.

:ban:

 

[GrizLA]

To both Oredigger's points, your first two years aren't just spent taking some jackoff classes that make no sense to your major (like English and Sociology classes for engineering majors), but you're also taking degree specific intro classes to your major.. UM isn't going to offer a 100 level Intro to Petroleum Engineering type of class.. so you'd be wasting your time at UM instead taking freshman level classes. My engineering major at Wyoming wasn't just math and English lit, it was also Computer Science classes too.

Wyoming sucks. f*** Wyoming and f*** you.

Now THAT WAS EXACTLY WHAT I NEEDED, TODAY. Very funny...thx...
Of course, the real truth is what no one wants to hear....college and all other schools are redundant in the age of computers. Who really needs a campus to obtain technical training or even liberal arts "educations" today?

 

[Ursa Major]

I just ask that the two "diggers" stop with the homoerotic avatars and start straightening up and flying right around here before they get band.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

LOL, diggin' in the dirt indeed!

 

[CDAGRIZ]

My thanks to the two "orediggers," who have educated me and answered my questions, although re: Tech, there seems to be factors other than subject matter that explain Tech's uniqueness and excellence. For one, Tech offers constant contact from freshman to senior with experienced, dedicated teachers. For another, the smaller classes, providing a more intimate learning experience. I can see that. In other words, it's a certain mindset that's generated, which does not necessarily hold for the larger, more impersonal institutions.

This may be as valuable, if not more valuable, than the subject matter. I concede to leave Tech alone, altho basic subjects such as English, history, basic sciences, etc., the liberal arts subjects, could be handled by UM, MSU, or, say Highlands College. But, that would involve too much complication. So, leave Tech alone.

My only point is that MT needs to take a good look at the present duplication of BA degrees in education, business, and liberal arts (general ed.) subjects. Really, do we need 6 separate BA programs in those subjects in this state, when UM and MSU could do it?

My point is that MT does not need 6 separate BA programs in education, business, and liberal arts majors. I also understand that Montanans prize their local institutions, not only for the convenience of obtaining a BA close to home, but for the economic benefits to the communities. As that is the case, then let's not whine about wasted $ in our higher ed. system. Apparently it is not money wasted in those communities with those 6 BA awarding schools.

Screw that, Dave! I like your original idea. A class that teaches people how to drive trains full of petroleum doesn't need its own campus.

Well, then, MT Tech & MSU need to develop programs in nuclear energy to replace petroleum for our energy needs. That's what it has to come to. Wind and solar are insufficient on an industrial scale. Good for individual residences and businesses, but nothing else. Hydro is becoming less important; the enviros have won there.

Eastern MT is prime territory for buried nuclear reactors in spent open-pit coal mines. Nuclear is now in Generation IV. I believe 3 Mile Island was Gen II. Many reactors don't need water. MT & points south to the Mexican border are relatively free of seismic activity. No tsunamis, etc.

America has to get off its phobia about nuclear and embrace it; it's the only way we can go into the future. Ensure safety by government ownership, oversight, and management, like our nuclear Navy. Get profit out of it; companies cut corners in the name of profit. We need another Admiral Hyman Rickover to oversee this effort. What has it been, 40, 50 years of nuclear Navy & not one accident, due to nuclear?

MT could be in on the ground floor of such an effort, with Tech & MSU leading the way. It's going to come; it has to come. Where will we get all the clean juice to power our Teslas?

I'm glad you stuck to the point. You're right about the sandwiches. Nobody cares about a damned green olive anymore when it's all about vinegar right on the lettuce. I mean, who buys socks in a store when he can't even find a Dixie coonskin with an Ohio hooker holding his prick and showing him the way? It's basically like you said before, if Doak Campbell had known about Easy Cheese before Nabisco, we'd probably all be talking about soccer right now.

 

[haZyskies]

eh, not looking good for history majors...fml

 

[GrizMusician]

CDA, i think i now understand your joke: it is pointless to argue an "unstoppable" theory from DaveyDuece. Great foresight there.

D2, I don't even know where to start. If you did attend college I assume you didn't finish or else you'd understand how some classes lay the foundation for later ones (and are sometimes taught by the same profs). Organic chem doesn't even touch geology so how exactly would it prepare you for advanced petro courses?

I don't want to maintain the "status quo" as you claim. All the small schools (other than Tech) can eat shit and die for all i care. As I said, you may be on to something but you're taking it way to far. You want to make tech a two-year school and believe it will somehow still maintain its superiority. That's dumber than putting a dome over WaGriz.

So, tell me how a 200 geology course at Tech is different than one at UM/MSU/community college? Don't they both teach the same thing? Oh, our poor kiddies need to have a papa to continue their ed. If a kid is bright and mature enough, he/she won't care who's teaching the course. (Or shouldn't.)

What makes you think a prof at Tech is superior in teaching 200 organic chemistry/geology than a prof at UM/MSU/community college? It's the same damned material! Any bright student at a CC is as capable of handling 300 courses at Tech as at any other institution. And, believe it or not, there are bright, talented students and faculty at CCs. Perfectly capable of learning/teaching 100, 200 courses. Man, your snobbery is overpowering.

Don't get me started on the dome thing. Well, you did. Back when, you guys & many boosters were all for holding the FCS NC, in Missoula no less. The thing is, you guys tried to get it on the cheap & the FCS didn't go for it. I said the only way to attract a national attendance in the dead of Jan. was to put a dome over WaGriz. It was an offhand, a bit tongue-in-cheek, remark.

Speaking of stupid ideas, you guys take the cake. Remember all the posts/threads to rename College Drive, Don Read Drive? Titleist can correct me on this, but that topic generated right up there with # of posts. So, forget my "dome" idea & I'll forget your "Don Read Drive" and "FCS NC in Missoula" idea.

I can't answer for the here and now at Tech, but back when I was there the Intro classes are not even close to be the same. Since my degree is in Geological Engineering, and closely corresponds with whatever point you're trying to make let me give this a go.

-- Intro classes at UM were insane with HUNDREDS of students in those classes. I think my biggest class at Tech had maybe 60 students. It was the fact that I worked DIRECTLY with the professors early on that made it much more rewarding where many classes at UM you had TA's running things. When I hit the advanced classes I had established my educational relationships.

-- At Tech all professors at that time were required to have advanced degrees, not true at UM. I'll stop there....but that was a major selling point for me.

-- Tech is a engineering school, my prep classes were preparing me very early on for that from an ENGINEERING stand point. The intro geology classes were different.

-- There were intro classes for Mining, Geophysical and Petroleum engineering that were needed to be taken early on to "migrate" through your degree progra. You delay those classes by 1-2 years at another instituion it will back everything up and now you're a 5th year senior. ADDED expense.

-- The education at Tech was, and I assume is one of the best colleges in the country. I am a better person because I went to Tech all FOUR years.What decisions do I make if I go to another school and transfer in? I had options to go to WVU, OkSU, MsSU and MIT. Costs were insane at some of those schools for someone like me, even with partial scholarship. Tech allowed me to get that type of education for minimal expense.

-- Although I understand a bit for schools that may duplicate program, ie Western Montana (then) I still believe there is a inherent impact on local communities to have these schools. It creates jobs and drives the local economy, including small businesses.

The answer is better management and less politics. Waste can be mananged. I used to manage for a marketing firm that had its BEST years, when the economy was faltering. Was it because their product improved? Somewhat yes, but in truth it was they learned how to eliminate millions of dollars in and create profits during a rough time.

CDA, i think i now understand your joke: it is pointless to argue an "unstoppable" theory from DaveyDuece. Great foresight there.

D2, I don't even know where to start. If you did attend college I assume you didn't finish or else you'd understand how some classes lay the foundation for later ones (and are sometimes taught by the same profs). Organic chem doesn't even touch geology so how exactly would it prepare you for advanced petro courses?

I don't want to maintain the "status quo" as you claim. All the small schools (other than Tech) can eat shit and die for all i care. As I said, you may be on to something but you're taking it way to far. You want to make tech a two-year school and believe it will somehow still maintain its superiority. That's dumber than putting a dome over WaGriz.

So, tell me how a 200 geology course at Tech is different than one at UM/MSU/community college? Don't they both teach the same thing? Oh, our poor kiddies need to have a papa to continue their ed. If a kid is bright and mature enough, he/she won't care who's teaching the course. (Or shouldn't.)

What makes you think a prof at Tech is superior in teaching 200 organic chemistry/geology than a prof at UM/MSU/community college? It's the same damned material! Any bright student at a CC is as capable of handling 300 courses at Tech as at any other institution. And, believe it or not, there are bright, talented students and faculty at CCs. Perfectly capable of learning/teaching 100, 200 courses. Man, your snobbery is overpowering.

Don't get me started on the dome thing. Well, you did. Back when, you guys & many boosters were all for holding the FCS NC, in Missoula no less. The thing is, you guys tried to get it on the cheap & the FCS didn't go for it. I said the only way to attract a national attendance in the dead of Jan. was to put a dome over WaGriz. It was an offhand, a bit tongue-in-cheek, remark.

Speaking of stupid ideas, you guys take the cake. Remember all the posts/threads to rename College Drive, Don Read Drive? Titleist can correct me on this, but that topic generated right up there with # of posts. So, forget my "dome" idea & I'll forget your "Don Read Drive" and "FCS NC in Missoula" idea.

I can't answer for the here and now at Tech, but back when I was there the Intro classes are not even close to be the same. Since my degree is in Geological Engineering, and closely corresponds with whatever point you're trying to make let me give this a go.

-- Intro classes at UM were insane with HUNDREDS of students in those classes. I think my biggest class at Tech had maybe 60 students. It was the fact that I worked DIRECTLY with the professors early on that made it much more rewarding where many classes at UM you had TA's running things. When I hit the advanced classes I had established my educational relationships.

-- At Tech all professors at that time were required to have advanced degrees, not true at UM. I'll stop there....but that was a major selling point for me.

-- Tech is a engineering school, my prep classes were preparing me very early on for that from an ENGINEERING stand point. The intro geology classes were different.

-- There were intro classes for Mining, Geophysical and Petroleum engineering that were needed to be taken early on to "migrate" through your degree progra. You delay those classes by 1-2 years at another instituion it will back everything up and now you're a 5th year senior. ADDED expense.

-- The education at Tech was, and I assume is one of the best colleges in the country. I am a better person because I went to Tech all FOUR years.What decisions do I make if I go to another school and transfer in? I had options to go to WVU, OkSU, MsSU and MIT. Costs were insane at some of those schools for someone like me, even with partial scholarship. Tech allowed me to get that type of education for minimal expense.

-- Although I understand a bit for schools that may duplicate program, ie Western Montana (then) I still believe there is a inherent impact on local communities to have these schools. It creates jobs and drives the local economy, including small businesses.

The answer is better management and less politics. Waste can be mananged. I used to manage for a marketing firm that had its BEST years, when the economy was faltering. Was it because their product improved? Somewhat yes, but in truth it was they learned how to eliminate millions of dollars in and create profits during a rough time.

Yes I agree with you...intro classes were definitely geared with engineering in mind. Good summary. I have always been thankful for Montana Tech, since, as a lifelong Griz fan who wanted to be an engineer, I didn't have to go to MSU!

Nice posts Ordigger. Go Diggers!