Really worried about New Coach

[UMGriz75]

OK one last post then I give

Does anyone know where I can find a nice Griz Vest? Been to the bookstore, M store, Bob Wards and the mall - no luck

Would love to have one

Our local Albertson's store has some Griz vests in stock. It's the one across the river from the U, and so might be a one-off. I think I have seen them advertised at the "Big Sky Store."

 

[UMGriz75]

When you listed recent great plays throw Mathis Ward into the mix- one of my favorite players, great kid and great work ethic.

Mathias Ward was a terrific player and consistent as all get-out. I think he has been mis-underestimated. As a 4.0 student, he was a real role model as well.

 

[rainbear14]

agree..

 

[UMGriz75]

It is not that I disagree that this team may contend but the facts of the matter are , they just aren't that good.

I disagree. I think, pound for pound, there are four players that can and will be consistently be in the higher double digits, Gregory, Breunig, Weisner, and Kemp. Not far behind, Gfeller and Dunn, possibly Krslovic. That's a winning combination by any standard.

 

[Potomac Griz]

Missing players but still a poor showing in the final 10 minutes........beat the press and pull it out for a late shot clock 3.....no press walk it up, pass it around for 25 seconds and cast a late shot clock 3. Where's the up tempo?

They got worn out. Throughout the year DeCuire had been substituting players in and out quite frequently to keep people fresh so the up tempo and aggressive defense could continue all game. This game with only 7 players getting decent minutes what do you do? Also, as good as of a game as Kemp had he's not really an "up tempo" kind of player like Breunig can be. [/quote]

See Jake Willey of Lewis and Clark State was player of the week in the Frontier last week. Know that Emerson plays on that same team. Didn't UM basketball pay for Andy Martin's school last semester at UM? Could have probably used one or more of them in yesterday's and a few other games this year already.

Who knows on Wiley, I was disappointed when he left but that was under Tinkle not DeCuire.

Can you imagine if TD was the new FB coach and started out this way?

Apples and oranges. How do you think the Griz FB season would go if they played teams like Cal, Boise, Colorado State and Davidson (who is now getting some top 25 attention)?

How do you also think the Griz FB team would do if 60% of their starters were out?

They ran out of gas against South Dakota. That's all.

Amazing how quickly fans (some of which I'm pretty sure don't even watch the game just look at the box scores occasionally) are quick to forget this team took Cal & Boise to double overtime, kept pace with the #3 offense in the country (Davidson) and has had several games where they looked damn good out there. Not accusing you MouseGriz of being one of the fans who doesn't watch the game, just noticed a couple newish posters pop up that appear to have no idea wtf they are talking about.

Anyway, this is a very young team under a new coaching staff. There are going to be some ugly games but we'll surprise some teams in the Big Sky this year. The Big Sky is up for grabs. Weber has their issues and EWU is 2 players basically as was shown in their blowout loss against SHSU and their 11 point loss to Cal. Right now EWU looks like the team to beat but they are far from unbeatable.

 

[citygriz]

i've seen two games against superior opponents on their home floor (boise state and cal) and montana looked great in both those games. i especially loved our defenseive effort. our defense will keep us in many conference games.

i'm not happy about the foul shooting. no matter you're adjusting to a new system, you've got to make free throws. they are part of any system, and crucial to a winning program. we'd have beaten both cal and boise state if we could have made our free throws.

 

[Mousegriz]

Just stirring the pot a little today and not blaming Decuire for the loss of some of the players mentioned. I do question the slow pace of play in last 10 minutes of the game yesterday. These kids play 4 minute media timeouts, take their own timeouts, the halftime, fouls and foul shots all stop the clock. Many teams play no more than 8 any game until it's decided late. Many stars play entire games.....most players who were part of a 7 player rotation would kill for that much playing time. Griz played 8 yesterday; it wasn't our best 8 but to explain those last 10 minutes to lost leg seems a stretch. Lost legs can't hit long 3 pointers at the end of the shot clock. Lost legs don't beat a press fairly easily then never take advantage by getting a quicker shot up at the hole. Our coach said he'd pick up tempo and I don't see it....particularly in that 10 point 10 minute stretch at the end of the game yesterday.

I understand the whole strength of schedule deal in BB vs. FB and am quick to defend our true D1 bball schedule to our FCS football schedule. But the whole "good loss" question I've seen on the football forum seems like it ought to be asked here....and yesterday regardless of who played for the Griz wasn't a "good loss".

Griz are 3 - 7 with wins over Carroll, NDSU and Seattle and losses to Co State, Boise, SF, Cal, Davidson, Milwaukee and South Dakota. Some decent teams within those losses.......but shouldn't a school like Montana that's been to the NCAA's several times in the past 15 years expect a little more than a couple "good losses" to Boise and Cal.

I think DeCuire is a great hire and will be a good coach. Have a good break Griz, but don't eat too much and keep your legs because conference is right around the corner.

 

[Potomac Griz]

Griz are 3 - 7 with wins over Carroll, NDSU and Seattle and losses to Co State, Boise, SF, Cal, Davidson, Milwaukee and South Dakota. Some decent teams within those losses.......but shouldn't a school like Montana that's been to the NCAA's several times in the past 15 years expect a little more than a couple "good losses" to Boise and Cal.

Yes the Griz have some disappointing losses this year, USD is disappointing even though we were missing 60% of our starting lineup and very shorthanded. We just ran out of gas at the end. Yes the Griz have been to several NCAA tournaments (6) the past 15 years too. However, this is a team that returned 1 full time starter from last year's team that went 12-8 in conference, 17-13 overall and had no post season game at all (No CBI, no CIT, no NIT, no NCAA). Gregory started 29 games. Weisner started 15, Dunn started 16.

So 1 full time starter (2 part time) remaining from a team that was 5-5 out of conference last year with 2 of the wins being vs lower division opponents. Who were our 3 D1 wins? We beat Idaho twice and South Dakota State. We got blown out by a decent (8-10 in conference) Minnesota team 76-52. We also lost to Hawaii on the road, San Francisco at home and Washington on the road in a close game. So it's not like DeCuire was taking over a team that was coming off an NCAA run with multiple returning starters who beat good teams out of conference.

Not all of the losses were to graduation either (expected). We lost our starting PG (DeShields) who led the team in steals, 2nd in assists and 3rd in scoring to transfer. He shot over 50% from the field in Big Sky play and was honorable mention all Big Sky. Even though a few people here won't want to admit it, he was a big loss for our team for numerous reasons. We miss his ability to create out there.

We are also playing with 1 less scholarship player than normal (Martin's scholarship). As much as I liked Tinkle as a coach and a recruiter with him having taken quite a few chances on project post players that didn't pan out in his final few years it left the Griz very shaky in terms of depth for the new staff.

And last but not least we had a much tougher out of conference schedule this year than we did last year.

- Davidson, who we kept pace with, is 3rd in the country in scoring and getting top 25 notice now. Their only loss is to North Carolina.

- Cal who we took to double overtime is 10-1 from the Pac12 with their only loss to currently #9 ranked Texas. They beat #23 (at the time) Syracuse by 14.

- Boise, who we also took to double overtime was picked (forget which poll it was) to finish near (or at) the top of the Mountain West. They are 8-2 right now.

- Colorado State is undefeated at 11-0 & #23 in the country right now.

This Griz team will do just fine in conference. As I said before it's wide open for anyone at this point. EWU looks like the team to beat right now but they have issues as well.

 

[Agent G]

What hasn't been mentioned about this last game...4-5 players were coming of pretty severe flu like symptoms...a lot of time spent at the throne for a few days before the game.

 

[Potomac Griz]

What hasn't been mentioned about this last game...4-5 players were coming of pretty severe flu like symptoms...a lot of time spent at the throne for a few days before the game.

Hope everyone is healed up, healthy and OK with grades by our conference opener. Any idea on whether Edmond's issue is a grade issue that will keep him out until after winter session or do you think he'll be back for next game?

 

[Buttegrizzle]

We are gonna be fine. With the cupboard as bare as TD found it he has patched together a decent team. This was also one of the toughest non-conf scheduled I can recall. One of Tinkles biggest regular season wins was vs UCLA. The CAL and Boise teams are much better that UCLA was that year. TD came within a couple baskets of have two signature wins and played Davidson very close. Good showing considering.

 

[mtgrizrule]

Long term, I'm not worried about DeCuire or the program. As for this season, I am very concerned. My concern goes well beyond the SD game. The SD game was a perfect example why Andy Martin should have remained on this team. I said when Martin was released, I did not like it because we lacked the paint depth. Granted, he was a project player, and I feel with a fire lit under him as a JR, he would have helped when needed. Offense and rebounding aside, he would keep a few more baskets off our opponents score, with his presence inside defensively. You cannot coach his kind of length. I wish we had Andy on the team this year.

Andy Martin aside, I'll move forward with my concerns. The only consistent players so far this season are Breunig, Gregory, and for the most part Weisner. Everyone else has been drastically inconsistent. Travis does not yet know what he can rely on the others to do. Sorry but this at this stage of the season, there should be at least 6 players having established themselves. Dunn, for me has been disappointing. Jamar was right, he needs to play mean and with some attitude. He is a terrific ball handler, athletic, and quick, there is no reason in the world why he should not be driving the ball more often. Gregory is not as athletic or as quick, yet Gregory makes things happen for himself and setting up his teammates. I am not sure why Dunn is playing passive offensively, could it be the propensity for fouls? If so, my advise is F the officials, that is why teams have depth!!! Dunn was expected to be the 3rd or 4th option this season, at worse expected to be a ball distributor. He absolutely has to pick his game up.

Gfeller, has me really concerned. Last season he came out on fire then lost his shot and never got it back all season. Well guess what? Despite having an absolutely great shooting stroke, his consistency has disappeared. He has to realize his perimeter shooting is why the GRIZ recruited him. He has to fill that role consistently. He has not been consistent. Granted, I feel he is to good of a shooter to not find his stroke again. I just don't know if he can do it consistently. He is the 2nd somewhat disappointment this season.

Kemp, like last season, he is inconsistent on both ends of the court. The SD game was an encouraging game for him offensively. He has to be relied on give the GRIZ paint depth, inside scoring, and rebounding. To me, he has not lived up to his vast potential, so far.

Bradshaw, I actually like his development this season, even with inconsistent results. He looks comfortable out there running the offense and shooting. He is actually looking to make things happen. Last season, we just did not see that in him. I have a feeling better productivity will come if he just continues to let the game come to him.

Lopez, I honestly feel for him that he has to play the post so often. He is a true SF, with a nice offensive game. He is over matched playing the post though. That hurts him offensively and defensively, just like it has Weisner the last few years. With the outside game struggling as a team, I actually would not mind seeing Lopez get a few more looks per game. In limited opportunity this season, he has consistently delivered from the perimeter. To me, he has earned more opportunity, which is one of the few support players who has earned more.

Krslovic (sp?) is a nice player with a bright future. He is always near the ball on the boards. He has a knack for knowing where the ball will be. Offensively, he is solid for a FR. Being a FR big is never easy. I expect his play to be inconsistent. He does struggle with some defensive inconsistencies.

Edmonds is the 1 unknown player who I feel will just get better with time. I absolutely love his overall game. He is more athletic than Jamar. He has no weakness offensively (like Jamar). He needs to find defensive consistency. Providing he gets back on the court, he is the only player outside of Weisner, Gregory, and Breunig I'd be riding. Keep him on the court as much as possible. I have a feeling the payoff would be huge as the season progresses. He has all conference and all region like potential. Edmonds is capable of being an AJ, Matthews, Jamar like player. He is the best option ready to contribute more right here, right now. Even if his offense is off, his ball distribution skills and versatility (can play PG, SG, and SF) is invaluable. Edmonds can play against any kind of team at any of the 3 positions.

Nwosu, due to lack of minutes, I cannot evaluate his game, one way or the other. However, based on his video it looked to me he was a little slow getting his shot off comfortably. However, he does look to be a solid defender and ball handler. If rest of the guards (not named Gregory) continue to play inconsistent, I would not hesitate to see what Nwosu can bring to the table. At worse, it might light a fire under the other guards.

With all that said, upon everyone getting healthy and able to play, Gregory, Weisner, Breunig and Edmonds should be on the court 30 plus minutes per game, when not in foul trouble. Dunn is capable of those minutes too, but needs to step up his game. I base this entirely what I have observed so far. I feel they have earned those minutes. If and when other players step up, then allocate more minutes to those players as they earn the minutes.

I do feel the FT shooting will improve overall. The only player I worry about from the line is Kemp. As for DeCuire and his staff, I really cannot argue with their coaching strategy and overall vision. I just think a loud statement needs to be made regarding minutes to light a fire under a few guys who need it lit. Right now, it looks to me that conference coaches were justified in the pick of the GRIZ to be 8th. Personally, I still see 4th or 5th with inconsistent play. I see a contender still if Travis can get everyone to play consistently well .

I look forward to the new year. GRIZ please prove to everyone you are a conference contender and not a pretender. GO GRIZ!!!!

 

[grizzlyjournal]

Considering how it started, this has developed into an excellent analysis of Griz basketball. Just a couple of comments to add perspective:

1. The Montana Grizzlies' pre-conference schedule was recently rated as the 25th stiffest schedule in Division 1 basketball for 2014-15.

2. Unforseen factors happening largely before the new coaches were named resulted in a seriously undermanned squad this year.

3.Despite a squad with depth problems at all positions, new coach Travis DeCuire decided to redshirt two freshmen, in effect projecting forward. I recall often on this board commenters lamenting the lack of redshirting for players who could have been very productive during their fifth year.

4. FIRST YEAR COACHES: Every player is playing "as a freshman" under a new coaching staff, with completely new defensive schemes and a largely new offensive scheme... despite the fact that some of coach DeCuire's "Hi-Lo" schemes are familiar.

5. Perhaps most baffling to me... this team is NOT shooting as well as most Griz fans expected (or hoped). Shooting is the true monkey wrench, because Montana's floor play has been consistently improving game by game. If Montana's shooting continues on wild pendulum swings between 32% and 57% then we'll be further examining some unexpected losses.

 

[Mousegriz]

Thanks for the critique Potomac. I agree, all of a sudden after obtaining their biggest (10 point +) lead with 10 minutes left Griz "got worn out". Amazing effort to obtain that lead while on the brink of getting worn out. Totally expected we'd be left in a quandary at that moment and be unable to score more than 10 down the stretch.

Weber must get "worn out" right away in their games!!

 

[PlayerRep]

What would have helped in the SD game would have been better reffing. That crew of 3 is always horrible, especially the white-haired guy. He is clueless. The bad call giving Kemp a foul while rebounding on the defensive end hurt. A bit over a minute to go. Game tied. Despite being sandwiched and after the ball had gone up a few times, he appeared to go straight up to get the ball. That foul took the ball away from the Griz and gave SD 2 points on the free throws.

My answer with Kemp is to play him more. He can score, rebound and defend big, strong guys. Yes, he may mistakes, but so does everyone else, except perhaps Breunig. He told me recently that he is going to do everything he can to help the team win the championship this year.

Nice analysis and stats Potomac, GrizRule and Journal. Very helpful. Really put the pre-season in perspective.

 

[UMGriz75]

Long term, I'm not worried about DeCuire or the program. As for this season, I am very concerned. My concern goes well beyond the SD game. The SD game was a perfect example why Andy Martin should have remained on this team. I said when Martin was released, I did not like it because we lacked the paint depth. Granted, he was a project player, and I feel with a fire lit under him as a JR, he would have helped when needed. Offense and rebounding aside, he would keep a few more baskets off our opponents score, with his presence inside defensively. You cannot coach his kind of length. I wish we had Andy on the team this year.

This reflects my thinking exactly. Last year, I suggested that I thought Wayne should work more one on one with Andy, and frankly, shove him around. He was the only one that could do it. I share the field house with the BB team during spring semesters, and so watched many practices. Andy represented to me a certain kind of personality that I've seen in my own athletes. Lots of talent, smart as hell, lots of natural resources, but a lack of "fire." Andy is a classic "sardonic" personality, even "stoic." He needed to learn how to get angry and get the "fire." THAT IS COACHABLE.

I had one athlete that is "Andy" personified, in terms of build, ability, and personality, even looked like him. Funny as hell, but always as an "observer." Very astute. Lots of physical talent and lots of "reach." But could never get "fired up." Sometimes intelligence gets in the way of the necessary emotion. Or too many Norwegian genes.

Finally, it was just a matter of putting him in the weight room for four months and on "the stairs" for four months, which he hated, and the confrontations sometimes got physical. And then, just like in the movies, it really is a process of "getting them pissed." That "movie moment" is a genuine coaching moment. It takes a lot of commitment on both sides. Because of his own size, I thought Wayne was the guy to do it. Travis, from his perspective, didn't see it.

Andy Martin had a lot of potential, brought strong defensive cards to the table, and I do think that was a mistake.

 

[temp]

I have been too busy to watch every game this year but I can say the results so far are not a surprise and I would absolutely not put them on Decuire.

tinkle decided this teams fate last year. Casting off Deshields because the rough around the edges inner-city kid turned out to be rough around the edges, spending two years trying to convince everyone that Emerson wasn't any good and b.s.ing Wiley to the point that he would rather drop down than spend one more day playing for him pretty much sealed this teams destiny.

Deshields is red-shirting, but he was an all-conference player. Looking at the numbers it looks like Wiley and Emerson are having a very good year. I don't want to get into a 'level of competetion' debate, so just consider in games vs D1, Wiley is averaging 15.5 on 58% shooting and 5 rpg and Emerson is averaging 10 on 57% and 4.5 boards a game. Seems like having an all-conference guard and two long, efficient forwards in the mix may be something this or any team could use.

If OSU had fired Robinson in March instead of May. Decuire would have been able to set the team up by keeping/getting the guys he wanted rather than dealing with this mess on short notice.

I will agree that the Andy Martin thing was botched but that is part of the timing of it all. Decuire will be fine, he just needs a year or two to find "his" guys.

 

[first11]

We will be fine...it will take a bit before Travis finds the players and chemistry to win.

Patience unfortunately in short supply

 

[Griz1]

EdG as Aaron Rodgers told the Packer fans - R E L A X

These guys are coming along and by the year end (avoiding any injuries) they could be pretty feisty. Remember they weren't picked very highly and the loss of Edmonds is going to hurt badly. However, they play hard and, as a team. Team togetherness, can and will, overcome a lot of deficiencies and individual talent. I feel they also have a chip on their shoulder about a lack of respect and that fuels their fire.

 

[Zirg]

What would have helped in the SD game would have been better reffing. That crew of 3 is always horrible, especially the white-haired guy. He is clueless. The bad call giving Kemp a foul while rebounding on the defensive end hurt. A bit over a minute to go. Game tied. Despite being sandwiched and after the ball had gone up a few times, he appeared to go straight up to get the ball. That foul took the ball away from the Griz and gave SD 2 points on the free throws.
.

The fouls were 19 for South Dakota and 17 for Montana, and you're really gonna whine about ONE call deciding the game? The supposedly clueless "white-haired guy" referee, Eric Curry, is by FAR the most highly regarded referee that does Big Sky games. He's worked 9 NCAA tournament games (that's more than every other Big Sky ref combined), including the last 3 straight years. Wanna bet he'll be working another one this year? Seriously! Do you? Put up or shut up. He mostly does Mountain West/Pac-10/Big 10 games. He has already worked games at Stanford,UCLA,USC,Arizona,Minnesota and Ohio State this year. He doesn't HAVE to come to podunk Missoula and Flagstaff,etc. He is THE only big-time ref that's willing to come here and other Big Sky venues. He's not afraid to make the tough call against the home team in crucial situations, and therefore doesn't always endear himself to those with maroon-colored glasses. Road coaches love to see him. They know they'll get a fair opportunity no matter how hostile the atmosphere is. Perhaps he got that ONE call wrong, but it is lame to pin the entire game (and his reffing ability) on that. He took time to explain why he T-d up Breunig for hanging on the rim and Breunig now knows what he can and can't get away with. Breunig and Curry fist-bumped after the conversation. He learned early in the season, so it shouldn't hurt us in a big game later. This is a GOOD thing. Quit whining a gift-horse in the mouth. Talk about clueless. We played 7 guys for almost the entire game and they got worn out. THAT'S why we blew a 10 point lead and lost, not because the #1 ref that has ever worked a game in Missoula missed one foul.