Serious Question About Our Offense

[MrTitleist]

Debating this is foolish. You don't like Stiit and that is really at the heart of the issue. You would be happy with Bobbyball and ground/pound. Bobby did not get the job. Deal with it and support the coach and team. He had a damn good first year. This is not about debating schemes and football. This is about your whining that he got hired.

He didn't like Bobby either.

 

[MrTitleist]

"Hey guys, I'm going to start a thread wanting a debate, but instead I'm going to call you all stupid when you don't agree with my opinion about something I don't understand."

 

[Raider]

Debating this is foolish. You don't like Stiit and that is really at the heart of the issue. You would be happy with Bobbyball and ground/pound. Bobby did not get the job. Deal with it and support the coach and team. He had a damn good first year. This is not about debating schemes and football. This is about your whining that he got hired.

He didn't like Bobby either.

..or Robin, Mick, Joe.............

 

[doc3kgt]

He's got a valid point though, if you can't run the ball effectively you're not going to win many games, at least the ones that matter anyway. It's never a good idea to be one-dimensional. Shtitt should be bringing in a couple stud running backs instead of putting all his eggs in the WR basket.

 

[SoldierGriz]

I generally also dislike the spread offenses and high volume play calling....but when watching the Griz and Stitts offense...idk what it is, but it just seems a bit different, I cant quite put my finger on it.

Let me help put your finger on it. Stitt's offense is a gimmick offense, variations of which have been tried over the past 25 years or so, with some success, but which always disintegrate against really good defenses. The problem is the lack of a solid, consistent running game. Yeah, I understand that Stitt's teams at Mines had some 1000-yard rushers. But, I would bet that most of those yards were on a few longer runs. And, it was against Division II defenses. As you go up the scale from NAIA, Div. III, Div. II, FCS, FBS, to the NFL, it gets increasingly more difficult to execute gimmick offenses. The defenses are just too good.

Here is another example of why the yards/per/carry (YPG) stat is meaningless. 5-receiver offenses tend to create a few long runs each game, due to the defenses' responsibility to stop the pass. However, it is the inability to gain the tough 2-3 yards on third/fourth down by running the ball that is the downfall of these gimmicky offenses. And, good defensive teams have the ability to put offenses into many 3rd-n-short situations, as we saw last season. If you can't get the tough short yards to sustain a drive, you are punting the ball.

I disagree with the characterization of his offense as a "gimmick." The truth is - it is now prevalent throughout the college game. Playing fast is the new normal - even Alabama has transitioned in many ways. Certainly defenses have transitioned to stop it.

I do agree the Griz must improve their ability to get the tough short yardage to convert on 3rd down. It most noticeably played out in the Red Zone. They were not good enough in this area last year.

I also guarantee Stitt and his coaches knows this as well - and we saw them make some adjustments in-season to mitigate the shortcoming. I think we'll see improvement in this area this season.

 

[SoldierGriz]

He's got a valid point though, if you can't run the ball effectively you're not going to win many games, at least the ones that matter anyway. It's never a good idea to be one-dimensional. Shtitt should be bringing in a couple stud running backs instead of putting all his eggs in the WR basket.

Running backs are not the key issue, the O-Line is (was). Griz will improve here this season.

Learn the term "Calhouned." You and your cat buddies will be saying it A LOT! :lol:

 

[electricgriz42]

So if you look to the nfl, the Patriots have a mediocre runnine game, and everyone knows that they are going to throw the ball. Guess what, they still throw the ball, and will line up gronk in various different areas on the field, not just as a tight end off the line. Now I know that the griz are not the pats, but the concept remains. Belichik drafted linemen early to establish a dominant oline so as to give his qb the time needed to read the field. If our o-line can give gus time in the pocket he will perform much better than last year. So, insteam of proclaiming that "the sky is falling" and that Stitt's offense will not work, let's see what the next 2 seasons bring.

 

[electricgriz42]

Running*

 

[BadlandsGrizFan]

I generally also dislike the spread offenses and high volume play calling....but when watching the Griz and Stitts offense...idk what it is, but it just seems a bit different, I cant quite put my finger on it.

Let me help put your finger on it. Stitt's offense is a gimmick offense, variations of which have been tried over the past 25 years or so, with some success, but which always disintegrate against really good defenses. The problem is the lack of a solid, consistent running game. Yeah, I understand that Stitt's teams at Mines had some 1000-yard rushers. But, I would bet that most of those yards were on a few longer runs. And, it was against Division II defenses. As you go up the scale from NAIA, Div. III, Div. II, FCS, FBS, to the NFL, it gets increasingly more difficult to execute gimmick offenses. The defenses are just too good.

Here is another example of why the yards/per/carry (YPG) stat is meaningless. 5-receiver offenses tend to create a few long runs each game, due to the defenses' responsibility to stop the pass. However, it is the inability to gain the tough 2-3 yards on third/fourth down by running the ball that is the downfall of these gimmicky offenses. And, good defensive teams have the ability to put offenses into many 3rd-n-short situations, as we saw last season. If you can't get the tough short yards to sustain a drive, you are punting the ball.

I disagree with the characterization of his offense as a "gimmick." The truth is - it is now prevalent throughout the college game. Playing fast is the new normal - even Alabama has transitioned in many ways. Certainly defenses have transitioned to stop it.

I do agree the Griz must improve their ability to get the tough short yardage to convert on 3rd down. It most noticeably played out in the Red Zone. They were not good enough in this area last year.

I also guarantee Stitt and his coaches knows this as well - and we saw them make some adjustments in-season to mitigate the shortcoming. I think we'll see improvement in this area this season.

I dont agree at all that its a gimmick offense....and the best defense in the country the last 5 years couldnt stop it when it was most important that first go around...so i think it has a ton of potential.

 

[grizcountry420]

I generally also dislike the spread offenses and high volume play calling....but when watching the Griz and Stitts offense...idk what it is, but it just seems a bit different, I cant quite put my finger on it.

Let me help put your finger on it. Stitt's offense is a gimmick offense, variations of which have been tried over the past 25 years or so, with some success, but which always disintegrate against really good defenses. The problem is the lack of a solid, consistent running game. Yeah, I understand that Stitt's teams at Mines had some 1000-yard rushers. But, I would bet that most of those yards were on a few longer runs. And, it was against Division II defenses. As you go up the scale from NAIA, Div. III, Div. II, FCS, FBS, to the NFL, it gets increasingly more difficult to execute gimmick offenses. The defenses are just too good.

Here is another example of why the yards/per/carry (YPG) stat is meaningless. 5-receiver offenses tend to create a few long runs each game, due to the defenses' responsibility to stop the pass. However, it is the inability to gain the tough 2-3 yards on third/fourth down by running the ball that is the downfall of these gimmicky offenses. And, good defensive teams have the ability to put offenses into many 3rd-n-short situations, as we saw last season. If you can't get the tough short yards to sustain a drive, you are punting the ball.

I disagree with the characterization of his offense as a "gimmick." The truth is - it is now prevalent throughout the college game. Playing fast is the new normal - even Alabama has transitioned in many ways. Certainly defenses have transitioned to stop it.

I do agree the Griz must improve their ability to get the tough short yardage to convert on 3rd down. It most noticeably played out in the Red Zone. They were not good enough in this area last year.

I also guarantee Stitt and his coaches knows this as well - and we saw them make some adjustments in-season to mitigate the shortcoming. I think we'll see improvement in this area this season.

I dont agree at all that its a gimmick offense....and the best defense in the country the last 5 years couldnt stop it when it was most important that first go around...so i think it has a ton of potential.

But they did stop it when it was most important in the second round..

 

[SoldierGriz]

Let me help put your finger on it. Stitt's offense is a gimmick offense, variations of which have been tried over the past 25 years or so, with some success, but which always disintegrate against really good defenses. The problem is the lack of a solid, consistent running game. Yeah, I understand that Stitt's teams at Mines had some 1000-yard rushers. But, I would bet that most of those yards were on a few longer runs. And, it was against Division II defenses. As you go up the scale from NAIA, Div. III, Div. II, FCS, FBS, to the NFL, it gets increasingly more difficult to execute gimmick offenses. The defenses are just too good.

Here is another example of why the yards/per/carry (YPG) stat is meaningless. 5-receiver offenses tend to create a few long runs each game, due to the defenses' responsibility to stop the pass. However, it is the inability to gain the tough 2-3 yards on third/fourth down by running the ball that is the downfall of these gimmicky offenses. And, good defensive teams have the ability to put offenses into many 3rd-n-short situations, as we saw last season. If you can't get the tough short yards to sustain a drive, you are punting the ball.

I disagree with the characterization of his offense as a "gimmick." The truth is - it is now prevalent throughout the college game. Playing fast is the new normal - even Alabama has transitioned in many ways. Certainly defenses have transitioned to stop it.

I do agree the Griz must improve their ability to get the tough short yardage to convert on 3rd down. It most noticeably played out in the Red Zone. They were not good enough in this area last year.

I also guarantee Stitt and his coaches knows this as well - and we saw them make some adjustments in-season to mitigate the shortcoming. I think we'll see improvement in this area this season.

I dont agree at all that its a gimmick offense....and the best defense in the country the last 5 years couldnt stop it when it was most important that first go around...so i think it has a ton of potential.

But they did stop it when it was most important in the second round..

Yes, they did. But, you have to put the breadth of the season in context. The QB carousel resulting from injuries was not helpful...

Not making excuses, but it was a real challenge getting consistency on offense.

 

[grizcountry420]

I disagree with the characterization of his offense as a "gimmick." The truth is - it is now prevalent throughout the college game. Playing fast is the new normal - even Alabama has transitioned in many ways. Certainly defenses have transitioned to stop it.

I do agree the Griz must improve their ability to get the tough short yardage to convert on 3rd down. It most noticeably played out in the Red Zone. They were not good enough in this area last year.

I also guarantee Stitt and his coaches knows this as well - and we saw them make some adjustments in-season to mitigate the shortcoming. I think we'll see improvement in this area this season.

I dont agree at all that its a gimmick offense....and the best defense in the country the last 5 years couldnt stop it when it was most important that first go around...so i think it has a ton of potential.

But they did stop it when it was most important in the second round..

Yes, they did. But, you have to put the breadth of the season in context. The QB carousel resulting from injuries was not helpful...

Not making excuses, but it was a real challenge getting consistency on offense.

I agree SoldierGriz! Our offense was pretty inconstant...

 

[RobGriz]

I generally also dislike the spread offenses and high volume play calling....but when watching the Griz and Stitts offense...idk what it is, but it just seems a bit different, I cant quite put my finger on it.

Let me help put your finger on it. Stitt's offense is a gimmick offense, variations of which have been tried over the past 25 years or so, with some success, but which always disintegrate against really good defenses. The problem is the lack of a solid, consistent running game. Yeah, I understand that Stitt's teams at Mines had some 1000-yard rushers. But, I would bet that most of those yards were on a few longer runs. And, it was against Division II defenses. As you go up the scale from NAIA, Div. III, Div. II, FCS, FBS, to the NFL, it gets increasingly more difficult to execute gimmick offenses. The defenses are just too good.

Here is another example of why the yards/per/carry (YPG) stat is meaningless. 5-receiver offenses tend to create a few long runs each game, due to the defenses' responsibility to stop the pass. However, it is the inability to gain the tough 2-3 yards on third/fourth down by running the ball that is the downfall of these gimmicky offenses. And, good defensive teams have the ability to put offenses into many 3rd-n-short situations, as we saw last season. If you can't get the tough short yards to sustain a drive, you are punting the ball.

Hard to have ANY run game with 5 receivers. I'll let you figure out why #MathIsYourFriend
Also Stitts O rarely uses 5 receivers. Carry on...

 

[Atlanta Griz1]

I generally also dislike the spread offenses and high volume play calling....but when watching the Griz and Stitts offense...idk what it is, but it just seems a bit different, I cant quite put my finger on it.

Let me help put your finger on it. Stitt's offense is a gimmick offense, variations of which have been tried over the past 25 years or so, with some success, but which always disintegrate against really good defenses. The problem is the lack of a solid, consistent running game. Yeah, I understand that Stitt's teams at Mines had some 1000-yard rushers. But, I would bet that most of those yards were on a few longer runs. And, it was against Division II defenses. As you go up the scale from NAIA, Div. III, Div. II, FCS, FBS, to the NFL, it gets increasingly more difficult to execute gimmick offenses. The defenses are just too good.

Here is another example of why the yards/per/carry (YPG) stat is meaningless. 5-receiver offenses tend to create a few long runs each game, due to the defenses' responsibility to stop the pass. However, it is the inability to gain the tough 2-3 yards on third/fourth down by running the ball that is the downfall of these gimmicky offenses. And, good defensive teams have the ability to put offenses into many 3rd-n-short situations, as we saw last season. If you can't get the tough short yards to sustain a drive, you are punting the ball.

Hard to have ANY run game with 5 receivers. I'll let you figure out why #MathIsYourFriend
Also Stitts O rarely uses 5 receivers. Carry on...

He doesn't use 5 receivers??? What team have you been watching?

 

[Atlanta Griz1]

LOL. Yeah, they were able to watch film before the second game. But don't burst their bubble screen!

 

[RobGriz]

I generally also dislike the spread offenses and high volume play calling....but when watching the Griz and Stitts offense...idk what it is, but it just seems a bit different, I cant quite put my finger on it.

Let me help put your finger on it. Stitt's offense is a gimmick offense, variations of which have been tried over the past 25 years or so, with some success, but which always disintegrate against really good defenses. The problem is the lack of a solid, consistent running game. Yeah, I understand that Stitt's teams at Mines had some 1000-yard rushers. But, I would bet that most of those yards were on a few longer runs. And, it was against Division II defenses. As you go up the scale from NAIA, Div. III, Div. II, FCS, FBS, to the NFL, it gets increasingly more difficult to execute gimmick offenses. The defenses are just too good.

Here is another example of why the yards/per/carry (YPG) stat is meaningless. 5-receiver offenses tend to create a few long runs each game, due to the defenses' responsibility to stop the pass. However, it is the inability to gain the tough 2-3 yards on third/fourth down by running the ball that is the downfall of these gimmicky offenses. And, good defensive teams have the ability to put offenses into many 3rd-n-short situations, as we saw last season. If you can't get the tough short yards to sustain a drive, you are punting the ball.

Hard to have ANY run game with 5 receivers. I'll let you figure out why #MathIsYourFriend
Also Stitts O rarely uses 5 receivers. Carry on...

He doesn't use 5 receivers??? What team have you been watching?

I said "rarely" not "never". Math, try it, it's fun!

 

[Atlanta Griz1]

So if you look to the nfl, the Patriots have a mediocre runnine game, and everyone knows that they are going to throw the ball. Guess what, they still throw the ball, and will line up gronk in various different areas on the field, not just as a tight end off the line. Now I know that the griz are not the pats, but the concept remains. Belichik drafted linemen early to establish a dominant oline so as to give his qb the time needed to read the field. If our o-line can give gus time in the pocket he will perform much better than last year. So, insteam of proclaiming that "the sky is falling" and that Stitt's offense will not work, let's see what the next 2 seasons bring.

I didn't say the sky is falling. We will beat up on the typical Big Sky patsies, and lose to teams who play great defense. If we make the playoffs, it will be a short run again. This offense will never win the chipper because it will never be able to sustain any semblance of a real running game, which is critical against great defenses.

There is another negative aspect of Stitt's offense which was exposed in the Portland State game last season. That is, when the weather gets gnarly, he can't run his offense effectively. We play in the Northwest, where weather can be a huge factor in any game. That's why being able to run the ball is critical.

 

[RobGriz]

So if you look to the nfl, the Patriots have a mediocre runnine game, and everyone knows that they are going to throw the ball. Guess what, they still throw the ball, and will line up gronk in various different areas on the field, not just as a tight end off the line. Now I know that the griz are not the pats, but the concept remains. Belichik drafted linemen early to establish a dominant oline so as to give his qb the time needed to read the field. If our o-line can give gus time in the pocket he will perform much better than last year. So, insteam of proclaiming that "the sky is falling" and that Stitt's offense will not work, let's see what the next 2 seasons bring.

I didn't say the sky is falling. We will beat up on the typical Big Sky patsies, and lose to teams who play great defense. If we make the playoffs, it will be a short run again. This offense will never win the chipper because it will never be able to sustain any semblance of a real running game, which is critical against great defenses.

There is another negative aspect of Stitt's offense which was exposed in the Portland State game last season. That is, when the weather gets gnarly, he can't run his offense effectively. We play in the Northwest, where weather can be a huge factor in any game. That's why being able to run the ball is critical.

You bring up some good points but I would say that part of the reason our run game doesn't work is because every team we face knows that Brady is not a threat to keep the ball. Hard to run an option if you take away 50% of the options.

 

[electricgriz42]

Good point Atlanta griz1. Portland state was a reality check and I think we will see an improvement due to more use of Calhoun and supposedly from what I've read hear the o-line has gotten bigger and improved at blocking. Defensively I like the promotion of semore, and hopefully we mitigate the big play. With the transfers that are coming in namely strong and reynard the secondary should be pretty good. I also like the move of kidder to d-end.

 

[grizindabox]

So if you look to the nfl, the Patriots have a mediocre runnine game, and everyone knows that they are going to throw the ball. Guess what, they still throw the ball, and will line up gronk in various different areas on the field, not just as a tight end off the line. Now I know that the griz are not the pats, but the concept remains. Belichik drafted linemen early to establish a dominant oline so as to give his qb the time needed to read the field. If our o-line can give gus time in the pocket he will perform much better than last year. So, insteam of proclaiming that "the sky is falling" and that Stitt's offense will not work, let's see what the next 2 seasons bring.

I didn't say the sky is falling. We will beat up on the typical Big Sky patsies, and lose to teams who play great defense. If we make the playoffs, it will be a short run again. This offense will never win the chipper because it will never be able to sustain any semblance of a real running game, which is critical against great defenses.

There is another negative aspect of Stitt's offense which was exposed in the Portland State game last season. That is, when the weather gets gnarly, he can't run his offense effectively. We play in the Northwest, where weather can be a huge factor in any game. That's why being able to run the ball is critical.

This must be the counter argument to "It's cold"....