Bring back the WAC in FCS?

[kemajic]

I don’t think SJSU is moving anywhere. Even if NMSU doesn’t move either (even though I believe they should), we could have this:

WAC:
Cal Poly
UC Davis
PSU
Sac State
UVU
Dixie State
SUU
NAU

BSC:
Montana
Montana State
Idaho
EWU
CWU
WSU
ISU
UNC

If SJSU and NMSU decided to move, one could go to each conference and we’d have nice 9-team conferences, leaving 8 conference games each year playing everyone in the conference.

No thanks - NAU doesn't want any part of that. Put CWU in with the WAC, NAU belongs with the other Mountain schools.

Way, way too far south of I-80.

Hasn't been an issue for almost 50 years...

It has been for everyone else.

 

[dbackjon]

This would be just wonderful! Think of all the games we could see close to the Metro Denver area again. The negative would be missing out on all the games played in a soccer stadium like Portland or getting to go to San Luis Obispo or the state capital of Cali...or Flagstaff...

Leaving schools located in Pocatello, Moscow or Ogden behind doesn't make much sense though, even though I recently read an article that said 400k people moved to Denver last year; Salt Lake and southern Idaho are also experiencing tremendous growth, so those statisticians projecting growth and the need for new and improved facilities for the mass of humanity moving to certain areas of the country are pretty accurate right now.

At the Rockies-Orioles game Saturday, the announcer spoke of the need for a new baseball stadium several times as Coors Field is 24 years old and is pretty run down and just has a funky smell to it.

But...let's face it. Montana's flagship universities belong at the FCS level. That's all we ought to aspire to in actuality... :?

Not the topic but how bad are we at building things when a 24 year old building can't do it's job anymore? The Romans got 400 years out of the Coliseum and I guarantee they had to deal with a lot funkier smells. Also that funky smell in Denver has only been around since the passing of Amendment 64.

Atlanta has already imploded the Georgia Dome and replaced it with Mercedes Benz Stadium. The Dome opened in 96 just prior to the Olympics...plus they moved from the Ted to Cobb County for the Braves. We can't even afford a few gallons of paint for the bleachers in one of our Flagship's stadium. We be poor...

Coors Field is the third oldest ballpark in the National League. The owners will mount a push to replace it as the Mile High tax goes toward expiration by arguing we should just extend the existing tax ("you won't even feel it")

Just like Chase Field in Arizona (Two Years Younger), Coors is way too big for modern attendance habits. A 38-40 seat stadium would be ideal.

 

[dbackjon]

No thanks - NAU doesn't want any part of that. Put CWU in with the WAC, NAU belongs with the other Mountain schools.

Way, way too far south of I-80.

Hasn't been an issue for almost 50 years...

It has been for everyone else.

For a few pissy Griz Fans who want the conference to revolve around Missoula, maybe. The 2,500 Griz Fans that would regularly show up in Flagstaff every other year loved it, Bobby Hauck loved all the players he got from AZ.

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

This would be just wonderful! Think of all the games we could see close to the Metro Denver area again. The negative would be missing out on all the games played in a soccer stadium like Portland or getting to go to San Luis Obispo or the state capital of Cali...or Flagstaff...

Leaving schools located in Pocatello, Moscow or Ogden behind doesn't make much sense though, even though I recently read an article that said 400k people moved to Denver last year; Salt Lake and southern Idaho are also experiencing tremendous growth, so those statisticians projecting growth and the need for new and improved facilities for the mass of humanity moving to certain areas of the country are pretty accurate right now.

At the Rockies-Orioles game Saturday, the announcer spoke of the need for a new baseball stadium several times as Coors Field is 24 years old and is pretty run down and just has a funky smell to it.

But...let's face it. Montana's flagship universities belong at the FCS level. That's all we ought to aspire to in actuality... :?

Not the topic but how bad are we at building things when a 24 year old building can't do it's job anymore? The Romans got 400 years out of the Coliseum and I guarantee they had to deal with a lot funkier smells. Also that funky smell in Denver has only been around since the passing of Amendment 64.

Atlanta has already imploded the Georgia Dome and replaced it with Mercedes Benz Stadium. The Dome opened in 96 just prior to the Olympics...plus they moved from the Ted to Cobb County for the Braves. We can't even afford a few gallons of paint for the bleachers in one of our Flagship's stadium. We be poor...

Coors Field is the third oldest ballpark in the National League. The owners will mount a push to replace it as the Mile High tax goes toward expiration by arguing we should just extend the existing tax ("you won't even feel it")

As it should be replaced.

 

[kemajic]

Way, way too far south of I-80.

Hasn't been an issue for almost 50 years...

It has been for everyone else.

For a few pissy Griz Fans who want the conference to revolve around Missoula, maybe. The 2,500 Griz Fans that would regularly show up in Flagstaff every other year loved it, Bobby Hauck loved all the players he got from AZ.

Along with a few pissy fans from EWU, Idaho, PSU, MSU, ISU and Weber. They far outnumber the few pissy NAU fans that actually go to the games in that wonderful dome. I've made that trip; fly to Phoenix, drive a rental 3 hours up the hill and watch a game inside designed to be played outside, then drive back down the hill to the Valley and fly home. Just the convenience every road fan desires. And players just love to play at 7000". AZ will continue to be fruitful recruiting; the FCS candidates there really look for alternatives.

 

[the#1grizfan]

Someone get on the horn and have the Mountain West invite UM and MSU to the conference. We have more attendance than half the conference anyway.

Would make this thread moot.

**average MWC attendance = 23,862 in 2018.

1. Boise State, 33,068

2. Fresno State, 31,503

3. San Diego State, 31,439

4. Colorado State, 29,504

5. Air Force, 27,701

6. Hawaii, 25,682

7. Wyoming, 18,880

8. Utah State, 18,717

9. Nevada, 17,181

10. UNLV, 16,823

11. New Mexico, 16,587

12. San Jose State, 14,255

Not only this but or seasonal revenue is higher then Wyoming on down. And the the 5 above that only bring in $250,000 more then the Griz each year.
A move is something we could absolutely do. Besides adding a few more sports, the only hang up is we wont go anywhere without the kitties it just wont happen.
But honestly the way they've been playing they'd be okay.

 

[kemajic]

Someone get on the horn and have the Mountain West invite UM and MSU to the conference. We have more attendance than half the conference anyway.

Would make this thread moot.

**average MWC attendance = 23,862 in 2018.

1. Boise State, 33,068

2. Fresno State, 31,503

3. San Diego State, 31,439

4. Colorado State, 29,504

5. Air Force, 27,701

6. Hawaii, 25,682

7. Wyoming, 18,880

8. Utah State, 18,717

9. Nevada, 17,181

10. UNLV, 16,823

11. New Mexico, 16,587

12. San Jose State, 14,255

Not only this but or seasonal revenue is higher then Wyoming on down. And the the 5 above that only bring in $250,000 more then the Griz each year.
A move is something we could absolutely do. Besides adding a few more sports, the only hang up is we wont go anywhere without the kitties it just wont happen.
But honestly the way they've been playing they'd be okay.

No one in the conference wants to travel to MT, nor do they want to further dilute their TV revenue. "Adding a few more sports" and adding 22 more football schollies are not trivial costs when the University is in serious cost reduction mode. This is not the time.

 

[mcg]

Someone get on the horn and have the Mountain West invite UM and MSU to the conference. We have more attendance than half the conference anyway.

Would make this thread moot.

**average MWC attendance = 23,862 in 2018.

1. Boise State, 33,068

2. Fresno State, 31,503

3. San Diego State, 31,439

4. Colorado State, 29,504

5. Air Force, 27,701

6. Hawaii, 25,682

7. Wyoming, 18,880

8. Utah State, 18,717

9. Nevada, 17,181

10. UNLV, 16,823

11. New Mexico, 16,587

12. San Jose State, 14,255

Not only this but or seasonal revenue is higher then Wyoming on down. And the the 5 above that only bring in $250,000 more then the Griz each year.
A move is something we could absolutely do. Besides adding a few more sports, the only hang up is we wont go anywhere without the kitties it just wont happen.
But honestly the way they've been playing they'd be okay.

No one in the conference wants to travel to MT, nor do they want to further dilute their TV revenue. "Adding a few more sports" and adding 22 more football schollies are not trivial costs when the University is in serious cost reduction mode. This is not the time.

The whole reason the MWC exists is that the MWC's got tired of the too-big WAC, so they dropped out and created their own conference.

 

[mcg]

Not the topic but how bad are we at building things when a 24 year old building can't do it's job anymore? The Romans got 400 years out of the Coliseum and I guarantee they had to deal with a lot funkier smells. Also that funky smell in Denver has only been around since the passing of Amendment 64.

Atlanta has already imploded the Georgia Dome and replaced it with Mercedes Benz Stadium. The Dome opened in 96 just prior to the Olympics...plus they moved from the Ted to Cobb County for the Braves. We can't even afford a few gallons of paint for the bleachers in one of our Flagship's stadium. We be poor...

Coors Field is the third oldest ballpark in the National League. The owners will mount a push to replace it as the Mile High tax goes toward expiration by arguing we should just extend the existing tax ("you won't even feel it")

As it should be replaced.

That's fine as long as I don't have to subsidize a for-profit business.

 

[kemajic]

Not only this but or seasonal revenue is higher then Wyoming on down. And the the 5 above that only bring in $250,000 more then the Griz each year.
A move is something we could absolutely do. Besides adding a few more sports, the only hang up is we wont go anywhere without the kitties it just wont happen.
But honestly the way they've been playing they'd be okay.

No one in the conference wants to travel to MT, nor do they want to further dilute their TV revenue. "Adding a few more sports" and adding 22 more football schollies are not trivial costs when the University is in serious cost reduction mode. This is not the time.

The whole reason the MWC exists is that the MWC's got tired of the too-big WAC, so they dropped out and created their own conference.

Sounds like a good model for the BSC to evaluate.

 

[IdaGriz01]

Atlanta has already imploded the Georgia Dome and replaced it with Mercedes Benz Stadium. The Dome opened in 96 just prior to the Olympics...plus they moved from the Ted to Cobb County for the Braves. We can't even afford a few gallons of paint for the bleachers in one of our Flagship's stadium. We be poor...

Coors Field is the third oldest ballpark in the National League. The owners will mount a push to replace it as the Mile High tax goes toward expiration by arguing we should just extend the existing tax ("you won't even feel it")

As it should be replaced.

That's fine as long as I don't have to subsidize a for-profit business.

Catch 22, as the saying goes.

While I can sympathize with your basic point, the reality is much more complex, from analyses I've read (in Forbes magazine, BTW). Yes, the taxpayers end up giving the sports team (works much the same in football, obviously) a big subsidy. But, most of those VERY well-paid pro athletes end up buying, or renting, homes in the area -- and therefore pay a bunch of taxes into the local coffers. The presence of the major sports franchise draws thousands (millions, in some cases) of fans into the business district ... bringing more revenue (property and sales tax) into the city. As I recall, unless the whole thing gets out of hand on construction costs, it's a net plus for the area ... about a 10-15% positive payback above the subsidy cost. I'll see if I can find the article, which came out a few years back ... but it's likely buried in their archives.

 

[tourist]

The whole reason the MWC exists is that the MWC's got tired of the too-big WAC, so they dropped out and created their own conference.

Sounds like a good model for the BSC to evaluate.

:thumb:

 

[AZGrizFan]

Not the topic but how bad are we at building things when a 24 year old building can't do it's job anymore? The Romans got 400 years out of the Coliseum and I guarantee they had to deal with a lot funkier smells. Also that funky smell in Denver has only been around since the passing of Amendment 64.

Atlanta has already imploded the Georgia Dome and replaced it with Mercedes Benz Stadium. The Dome opened in 96 just prior to the Olympics...plus they moved from the Ted to Cobb County for the Braves. We can't even afford a few gallons of paint for the bleachers in one of our Flagship's stadium. We be poor...

Coors Field is the third oldest ballpark in the National League. The owners will mount a push to replace it as the Mile High tax goes toward expiration by arguing we should just extend the existing tax ("you won't even feel it")

Just like Chase Field in Arizona (Two Years Younger), Coors is way too big for modern attendance habits. A 38-40 seat stadium would be ideal.

And yet somehow Dodger Stadium and Wrigley Field just keep on keepin’ On....

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

Atlanta has already imploded the Georgia Dome and replaced it with Mercedes Benz Stadium. The Dome opened in 96 just prior to the Olympics...plus they moved from the Ted to Cobb County for the Braves. We can't even afford a few gallons of paint for the bleachers in one of our Flagship's stadium. We be poor...

Coors Field is the third oldest ballpark in the National League. The owners will mount a push to replace it as the Mile High tax goes toward expiration by arguing we should just extend the existing tax ("you won't even feel it")

Just like Chase Field in Arizona (Two Years Younger), Coors is way too big for modern attendance habits. A 38-40 seat stadium would be ideal.

And yet somehow Dodger Stadium and Wrigley Field just keep on keepin’ On....

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-wrigley-tour-renovation-final-stage-photos-20190406-photogallery.html

 

[kemajic]

Atlanta has already imploded the Georgia Dome and replaced it with Mercedes Benz Stadium. The Dome opened in 96 just prior to the Olympics...plus they moved from the Ted to Cobb County for the Braves. We can't even afford a few gallons of paint for the bleachers in one of our Flagship's stadium. We be poor...

Coors Field is the third oldest ballpark in the National League. The owners will mount a push to replace it as the Mile High tax goes toward expiration by arguing we should just extend the existing tax ("you won't even feel it")

Just like Chase Field in Arizona (Two Years Younger), Coors is way too big for modern attendance habits. A 38-40 seat stadium would be ideal.

And yet somehow Dodger Stadium and Wrigley Field just keep on keepin’ On....

Fenway...

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

Coors Field is the third oldest ballpark in the National League. The owners will mount a push to replace it as the Mile High tax goes toward expiration by arguing we should just extend the existing tax ("you won't even feel it")

Just like Chase Field in Arizona (Two Years Younger), Coors is way too big for modern attendance habits. A 38-40 seat stadium would be ideal.

And yet somehow Dodger Stadium and Wrigley Field just keep on keepin’ On....

Fenway...

https://ballparkdigest.com/2019/03/08/fenway-park-theater-could-open-in-2021/

 

[mcg]

Coors Field is the third oldest ballpark in the National League. The owners will mount a push to replace it as the Mile High tax goes toward expiration by arguing we should just extend the existing tax ("you won't even feel it")

As it should be replaced.

That's fine as long as I don't have to subsidize a for-profit business.

Catch 22, as the saying goes.

While I can sympathize with your basic point, the reality is much more complex, from analyses I've read (in Forbes magazine, BTW). Yes, the taxpayers end up giving the sports team (works much the same in football, obviously) a big subsidy. But, most of those VERY well-paid pro athletes end up buying, or renting, homes in the area -- and therefore pay a bunch of taxes into the local coffers. The presence of the major sports franchise draws thousands (millions, in some cases) of fans into the business district ... bringing more revenue (property and sales tax) into the city. As I recall, unless the whole thing gets out of hand on construction costs, it's a net plus for the area ... about a 10-15% positive payback above the subsidy cost. I'll see if I can find the article, which came out a few years back ... but it's likely buried in their archives.

I'm going to very respectfully disagree. the spin off jobs associated with pro sports aren't usually good jobs, they are mostly seasonal and part time. Real estate impact?, sure Payton Manning bought a big house, then promptly sold it. Game day revenue? maybe a little, but not much I suspect (note, if I owned a hotel near Coors Field I love the stadium subsidy, but that's the problem, it benefits a tiny class of people). Subsidies to pro teams benefits two classes of people; owners (a lot) and players (much less). I think there is a group of consultants who make a living over forecasting spin off dollars.

Minneapolis recently subsidized the Vikings to the tune of a billion dollars (with a 'b') no way does that subsidy pay back. Strangely enough one subsidy that might of sort of worked is Coors Field. It was only $100 million and may have set off the LoDo real estate boom. But maybe not, perhaps cultural and demographic shifts (ie. young people love Denver) would have brought the boom anyway.

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

As it should be replaced.

That's fine as long as I don't have to subsidize a for-profit business.

Catch 22, as the saying goes.

While I can sympathize with your basic point, the reality is much more complex, from analyses I've read (in Forbes magazine, BTW). Yes, the taxpayers end up giving the sports team (works much the same in football, obviously) a big subsidy. But, most of those VERY well-paid pro athletes end up buying, or renting, homes in the area -- and therefore pay a bunch of taxes into the local coffers. The presence of the major sports franchise draws thousands (millions, in some cases) of fans into the business district ... bringing more revenue (property and sales tax) into the city. As I recall, unless the whole thing gets out of hand on construction costs, it's a net plus for the area ... about a 10-15% positive payback above the subsidy cost. I'll see if I can find the article, which came out a few years back ... but it's likely buried in their archives.

I'm going to very respectfully disagree. the spin off jobs associated with pro sports aren't usually good jobs, they are mostly seasonal and part time. Real estate impact?, sure Payton Manning bought a big house, then promptly sold it. Game day revenue? maybe a little, but not much I suspect (note, if I owned a hotel near Coors Field I love the stadium subsidy, but that's the problem, it benefits a tiny class of people). Subsidies to pro teams benefits two classes of people; owners (a lot) and players (much less). I think there is a group of consultants who make a living over forecasting spin off dollars.

Minneapolis recently subsidized the Vikings to the tune of a billion dollars (with a 'b') no way does that subsidy pay back. Strangely enough one subsidy that might of sort of worked is Coors Field. It was only $100 million and may have set off the LoDo real estate boom. But maybe not, perhaps cultural and demographic shifts (ie. young people love Denver) would have brought the boom anyway.

No. I view Centennial and South Park as more than burbs now. After living in and experiencing the growth Georgia in general and Hotlanta specifically experienced from the late 70s to the present, I see many of the same developers in and around Denver and the Salt Lake metro areas now. A vibrant, growing communitiy provides all the great nightlife venues Denver has in that ten block area around Coors Field for those who enjoy baseball. They also provide great family opportunities outside the stadiums.

Anyway, I was surprised at the growth Denver is experiencing and pleased at the same time as Denver is closer to where I live now than Missoula is and let's face it, Seattle pro sports sucks. It costs more to park in Seattle than a game in Denver or Hotlanta and all that goes with the family outing entails.

I really don't think there's a quantifiable formula that accurately depicts what sports venues provide to a community. Try to visualize what a stadium with over 50k would do to the Missoula economy...or Bozeman for that matter.

 

[Yukon]

Someone get on the horn and have the Mountain West invite UM and MSU to the conference. We have more attendance than half the conference anyway.

Would make this thread moot.

**average MWC attendance = 23,862 in 2018.

1. Boise State, 33,068

2. Fresno State, 31,503

3. San Diego State, 31,439

4. Colorado State, 29,504

5. Air Force, 27,701

6. Hawaii, 25,682

7. Wyoming, 18,880

8. Utah State, 18,717

9. Nevada, 17,181

10. UNLV, 16,823

11. New Mexico, 16,587

12. San Jose State, 14,255

Not only this but or seasonal revenue is higher then Wyoming on down. And the the 5 above that only bring in $250,000 more then the Griz each year.
A move is something we could absolutely do. Besides adding a few more sports, the only hang up is we wont go anywhere without the kitties it just wont happen.
But honestly the way they've been playing they'd be okay.

No one in the conference wants to travel to MT, nor do they want to further dilute their TV revenue. "Adding a few more sports" and adding 22 more football schollies are not trivial costs when the University is in serious cost reduction mode. This is not the time.

Would it just need to add 1 male sport? Div 1 (fbs) requires 14 sports, 7 for men and women or 6 for men and 8 for women. Griz currently have 5 men and 8 women sports.

 

[tourist]

Try to visualize what a stadium with over 50k would do to the Missoula economy...or Bozeman for that matter.

What I am visualizing is 15,000 empty seats is Missoula, 30,000 in Bozo. But, what the hell, let the people in Missoula or Bozo pay for it. Go for it! :thumb: