Covid Updates - Not Politics

[3-7-77]

Here is a cure to over-reaching entities requiring proof of immunity(vaccinate or acquired). The requiring entity would have to pay for the cost of testing serum for antibodies. When it costs them money to ride their high horse, they quit riding.

 

[horribilisfan8184]

Or set the price for revealing HIPPA protected vaxx status to any business, stadium, or parlor at $1000

 

[Mousegriz]

Here is a cure to over-reaching entities requiring proof of immunity(vaccinate or acquired). The requiring entity would have to pay for the cost of testing serum for antibodies. When it costs them money to ride their high horse, they quit riding.

.....or make them sit next to PR at every game until they get vaxxed. Providers might not able to handle the demand.

 

[GrizLA]

He had me at War College! Always wanted to go.

he had me at "you are out of your league". if he's a current "senior ranking" u.s. army member, what is he doing commenting on political issues using a public forum like this? and with a initial rejoinder that for all practical purposes means "shut up, you don't get to comment"? i think the myanmar junta has some jobs open. you could tell everyone you know better, and have power over all those pesky civilians with their pesky "own views".

:thumb:

 

[Ursa Major]

Holy cow, how did I miss this post?

Should we start in 1948 with the Berlin Airlift and the Marshall Plan?

If it wasn’t for NATO, 447,000,000 Europeans would be living under Soviet Authoritarianism.

The fall of the Soviet Union was a direct result of the outside pressures, both economically and militarily, by NATO.

NATO continues to protect the freedom of former Soviet satellite countries. Ask a resident of those countries how important NATO is.

Without NATO the war and ethnic cleansing in former Yugoslavia would still be going on.

Maybe we can ask the 51,000,000 South Koreans who were saved by the UN from communist takeover by the communist N. Koreans, the Chinese People’s Liberation Army and supplied by the Soviet Union.

Or maybe the 21,000,000 Taiwanese that would not be an independent country without the Sino-American Mutual Defense Treaty.

I could go on. I’m betting 10 years ago, you would have agreed with me, before you became radicalized.

I never said anything about military alliances...but let's just go down this road.

You are out of your league here...I am a very senior ranking member of our Armed Forces and a graduate of the War College. I have spent 29 years defending our nation with 4 tours in Iraq, 2 in Afghanistan, and 2 in the Balkans.

1. The US IS NATO. We work within the process designed, but we provide nearly ALL of the fighting forces. Member Nations provide support in many ways, and they nearly ALL fail to achieve the agreed upon funding. When I was a planner in Afghanistan, France decided to remove their forces...nearly overnight....creating a real issue for the rest of the forces. They come with caveats stating that they will not leave their bases etc..it's outrageous.

2. The Berlin Airlift was executed by the US Air Corps (US Army). And, the Marshall Plan was designed and paid for (largely) by the American people.

3. The fall of the Soviet Union had nothing to do with NATO. The US simply out spent the Soviet Union. That is it. PERIOD. They had no economic levers to compete, and they didn't. They are ONLY concerned with the US.

4. The US led ALL effort into the Balkans...with half assed contributions from NATO nations. Everything done there was accomplished under US leadership regardless of titles. I WAS THERE.

I could go on, but I won't because on this topic, you are completely out of your element.

But, I get it - you are a big government, international institution type of guy. You believe in them...I simply don't. Has nothing to do with radicalization....but

Maybe you can run to Portland and find a few friends.

By its very definition, NATO is an international institution. I would argue that NATO is the most influential international institution of the past 75 years and has been worth every penny we have spent on it. The ROI is truly incalculable.

NATO will continue to be an important international institution with the rise of Russian aggression, at least as long as we have Mr. Putin to deal with (see the British destroyer dust up today in the Black Sea).

Those architects of the World Bank, UN, the Marshall Plan and NATO set the stage for the post war years. I don’t know if it’s still in print but there is a great book entitled, The Wise Men, that documents the establishment of these institutions.

I invite any of you isolationists (new) America First folks to read it and anything George Kennan wrote. He was required reading when I was at the U.

Yes, I’m an internationalist and believe in these international institutions.

These views are certainly not radical, by definition they are conservative, and encompass the entirety of US foreign policy doctrine of the past 75 years.

The US engagement in the Marshall Plan, the World Bank, UN, and NATO, along with the dual foreign policies of containment and detente (carrots and sticks), served this country very well and may have saved western civilization.

The isolationist lives in an unrealistic flat earth la la land that believes the world ends at our shores.

Strong engagement, strong deterrent, and strong alliances with our partners will continue to be the heart of American foreign policy.

I figured any high-ranking military officer that understood the history of American foreign policy would believe the same thing.

 

[SoldierGriz]

I never said anything about military alliances...but let's just go down this road.

You are out of your league here...I am a very senior ranking member of our Armed Forces and a graduate of the War College. I have spent 29 years defending our nation with 4 tours in Iraq, 2 in Afghanistan, and 2 in the Balkans.

1. The US IS NATO. We work within the process designed, but we provide nearly ALL of the fighting forces. Member Nations provide support in many ways, and they nearly ALL fail to achieve the agreed upon funding. When I was a planner in Afghanistan, France decided to remove their forces...nearly overnight....creating a real issue for the rest of the forces. They come with caveats stating that they will not leave their bases etc..it's outrageous.

2. The Berlin Airlift was executed by the US Air Corps (US Army). And, the Marshall Plan was designed and paid for (largely) by the American people.

3. The fall of the Soviet Union had nothing to do with NATO. The US simply out spent the Soviet Union. That is it. PERIOD. They had no economic levers to compete, and they didn't. They are ONLY concerned with the US.

4. The US led ALL effort into the Balkans...with half assed contributions from NATO nations. Everything done there was accomplished under US leadership regardless of titles. I WAS THERE.

I could go on, but I won't because on this topic, you are completely out of your element.

But, I get it - you are a big government, international institution type of guy. You believe in them...I simply don't. Has nothing to do with radicalization....but

Maybe you can run to Portland and find a few friends.

By its very definition, NATO is an international institution. I would argue that NATO is the most influential international institution of the past 75 years and has been worth every penny we have spent on it. The ROI is truly incalculable.

NATO will continue to be an important international institution with the rise of Russian aggression, at least as long as we have Mr. Putin to deal with (see the British destroyer dust up today in the Black Sea).

Those architects of the World Bank, UN, the Marshall Plan and NATO set the stage for the post war years. I don’t know if it’s still in print but there is a great book entitled, The Wise Men, that documents the establishment of these institutions.

I invite any of you isolationists (new) America First folks to read it and anything George Kennan wrote. He was required reading when I was at the U.

Yes, I’m an internationalist and believe in these international institutions.

These views are certainly not radical, by definition they are conservative, and encompass the entirety of US foreign policy doctrine of the past 75 years.

The US engagement in the Marshall Plan, the World Bank, UN, and NATO, along with the dual foreign policies of containment and detente (carrots and sticks), served this country very well and may have saved western civilization.

The isolationist lives in an unrealistic flat earth la la land that believes the world ends at our shores.

Strong engagement, strong deterrent, and strong alliances with our partners will continue to be the heart of American foreign policy.

I figured any high-ranking military officer that understood the history of American foreign policy would believe the same thing.

I fully understand. It makes up the core curriculum at the War College. You have a deep belief in Liberalism while I have a deep belief in Realism.

My belief is that in spite of these international institutions, all Nations ultimately behave in their best interest. You believe institutions have the ability to influence this. I do not. I believe they are aspirational.

Both Liberalism and Realism are mainstream and not radical. Realism is not an isolationist philosophy. It simply believes institutions have and will continue to fall short of their expectations, and therefore accounts for this.

Thanks for the debate.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Good update: Mask mandate at the office has been lifted. I feel like a kid again.
I thought about throwing most of mine away, but I think I'll keep them so I don't need to buy new ones when the Echo/Gamma variant is ravaging the nation in a few months.

CDA, honest question. How can anyone, any organization require anyone to prove vaccination status given HIPPA?

Well, maybe because this doesn't fall under HIPAA.

 

[Ursa Major]

I never said anything about military alliances...but let's just go down this road.

You are out of your league here...I am a very senior ranking member of our Armed Forces and a graduate of the War College. I have spent 29 years defending our nation with 4 tours in Iraq, 2 in Afghanistan, and 2 in the Balkans.

1. The US IS NATO. We work within the process designed, but we provide nearly ALL of the fighting forces. Member Nations provide support in many ways, and they nearly ALL fail to achieve the agreed upon funding. When I was a planner in Afghanistan, France decided to remove their forces...nearly overnight....creating a real issue for the rest of the forces. They come with caveats stating that they will not leave their bases etc..it's outrageous.

2. The Berlin Airlift was executed by the US Air Corps (US Army). And, the Marshall Plan was designed and paid for (largely) by the American people.

3. The fall of the Soviet Union had nothing to do with NATO. The US simply out spent the Soviet Union. That is it. PERIOD. They had no economic levers to compete, and they didn't. They are ONLY concerned with the US.

4. The US led ALL effort into the Balkans...with half assed contributions from NATO nations. Everything done there was accomplished under US leadership regardless of titles. I WAS THERE.

I could go on, but I won't because on this topic, you are completely out of your element.

But, I get it - you are a big government, international institution type of guy. You believe in them...I simply don't. Has nothing to do with radicalization....but

Maybe you can run to Portland and find a few friends.

Ursa is licking his wounds. Well done.

No one is licking any wounds, what I wrote is the conventional understanding of post WWII American foreign policy. You should be fucking ecstatic, we won.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Or set the price for revealing HIPPA protected vaxx status to any business, stadium, or parlor at $1000

HIPAA does not provide protection from a business, stadium, or parlor from asking you.

 

[Ursa Major]

By its very definition, NATO is an international institution. I would argue that NATO is the most influential international institution of the past 75 years and has been worth every penny we have spent on it. The ROI is truly incalculable.

NATO will continue to be an important international institution with the rise of Russian aggression, at least as long as we have Mr. Putin to deal with (see the British destroyer dust up today in the Black Sea).

Those architects of the World Bank, UN, the Marshall Plan and NATO set the stage for the post war years. I don’t know if it’s still in print but there is a great book entitled, The Wise Men, that documents the establishment of these institutions.

I invite any of you isolationists (new) America First folks to read it and anything George Kennan wrote. He was required reading when I was at the U.

Yes, I’m an internationalist and believe in these international institutions.

These views are certainly not radical, by definition they are conservative, and encompass the entirety of US foreign policy doctrine of the past 75 years.

The US engagement in the Marshall Plan, the World Bank, UN, and NATO, along with the dual foreign policies of containment and detente (carrots and sticks), served this country very well and may have saved western civilization.

The isolationist lives in an unrealistic flat earth la la land that believes the world ends at our shores.

Strong engagement, strong deterrent, and strong alliances with our partners will continue to be the heart of American foreign policy.

I figured any high-ranking military officer that understood the history of American foreign policy would believe the same thing.

I fully understand. It makes up the core curriculum at the War College. You have a deep belief in Liberalism while I have a deep belief in Realism.

My belief is that in spite of these international institutions, all Nations ultimately behave in their best interest. You believe institutions have the ability to influence this. I do not. I believe they are aspirational.

Both Liberalism and Realism are mainstream and not radical. Realism is not an isolationist philosophy. It simply believes institutions have and will continue to fall short of their expectations, and therefore accounts for this.

Thanks for the debate.

Thank You, Solder!! I appreciate your intellect and commitment to our country.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

I'm most interested in the parlors. We all know the parlor industry very well. Just for those who don't know what we're talking about when we refer to a "parlor" (certainly not me, because I definitely know and am not confused by the term in the least), what are we referring to?

 

[Ursa Major]

More BS from the PRC:

https://www.propublica.org/article/how-china-uses-youtube-and-twitter-to-spread-its-propaganda-version-of-life-for-uyghurs-in-xinjiang

 

[AZGrizFan]

I never said anything about military alliances...but let's just go down this road.

You are out of your league here...I am a very senior ranking member of our Armed Forces and a graduate of the War College. I have spent 29 years defending our nation with 4 tours in Iraq, 2 in Afghanistan, and 2 in the Balkans.

1. The US IS NATO. We work within the process designed, but we provide nearly ALL of the fighting forces. Member Nations provide support in many ways, and they nearly ALL fail to achieve the agreed upon funding. When I was a planner in Afghanistan, France decided to remove their forces...nearly overnight....creating a real issue for the rest of the forces. They come with caveats stating that they will not leave their bases etc..it's outrageous.

2. The Berlin Airlift was executed by the US Air Corps (US Army). And, the Marshall Plan was designed and paid for (largely) by the American people.

3. The fall of the Soviet Union had nothing to do with NATO. The US simply out spent the Soviet Union. That is it. PERIOD. They had no economic levers to compete, and they didn't. They are ONLY concerned with the US.

4. The US led ALL effort into the Balkans...with half assed contributions from NATO nations. Everything done there was accomplished under US leadership regardless of titles. I WAS THERE.

I could go on, but I won't because on this topic, you are completely out of your element.

But, I get it - you are a big government, international institution type of guy. You believe in them...I simply don't. Has nothing to do with radicalization....but

Maybe you can run to Portland and find a few friends.

By its very definition, NATO is an international institution. I would argue that NATO is the most influential international institution of the past 75 years and has been worth every penny we have spent on it. The ROI is truly incalculable.

NATO will continue to be an important international institution with the rise of Russian aggression, at least as long as we have Mr. Putin to deal with (see the British destroyer dust up today in the Black Sea).

Those architects of the World Bank, UN, the Marshall Plan and NATO set the stage for the post war years. I don’t know if it’s still in print but there is a great book entitled, The Wise Men, that documents the establishment of these institutions.

I invite any of you isolationists (new) America First folks to read it and anything George Kennan wrote. He was required reading when I was at the U.

Yes, I’m an internationalist and believe in these international institutions.

These views are certainly not radical, by definition they are conservative, and encompass the entirety of US foreign policy doctrine of the past 75 years.

The US engagement in the Marshall Plan, the World Bank, UN, and NATO, along with the dual foreign policies of containment and detente (carrots and sticks), served this country very well and may have saved western civilization.

The isolationist lives in an unrealistic flat earth la la land that believes the world ends at our shores.

Strong engagement, strong deterrent, and strong alliances with our partners will continue to be the heart of American foreign policy.

I figured any high-ranking military officer that understood the history of American foreign policy would believe the same thing.

By its textbook definition, yes, NATO is “ international”. Reality, however, is quite another. The only real time a NATO country gets real interested in it is when it’s THEIR country that’s threatened.

Both NATO and the UN have far outlived their usefulness. Not saying there couldn’t be better organizations that serve the same purpose established, but those two are bloated and ineffective and entirely political in nature at this point.

 

[Ursa Major]

By its very definition, NATO is an international institution. I would argue that NATO is the most influential international institution of the past 75 years and has been worth every penny we have spent on it. The ROI is truly incalculable.

NATO will continue to be an important international institution with the rise of Russian aggression, at least as long as we have Mr. Putin to deal with (see the British destroyer dust up today in the Black Sea).

Those architects of the World Bank, UN, the Marshall Plan and NATO set the stage for the post war years. I don’t know if it’s still in print but there is a great book entitled, The Wise Men, that documents the establishment of these institutions.

I invite any of you isolationists (new) America First folks to read it and anything George Kennan wrote. He was required reading when I was at the U.

Yes, I’m an internationalist and believe in these international institutions.

These views are certainly not radical, by definition they are conservative, and encompass the entirety of US foreign policy doctrine of the past 75 years.

The US engagement in the Marshall Plan, the World Bank, UN, and NATO, along with the dual foreign policies of containment and detente (carrots and sticks), served this country very well and may have saved western civilization.

The isolationist lives in an unrealistic flat earth la la land that believes the world ends at our shores.

Strong engagement, strong deterrent, and strong alliances with our partners will continue to be the heart of American foreign policy.

I figured any high-ranking military officer that understood the history of American foreign policy would believe the same thing.

By its textbook definition, yes, NATO is “ international”. Reality, however, is quite another. The only real time a NATO country gets real interested in it is when it’s THEIR country that’s threatened.

Both NATO and the UN have far outlived their usefulness. Not saying there couldn’t be better organizations that serve the same purpose established, but those two are bloated and ineffective and entirely political in nature at this point.

Putin’s annexation of Crimea and his fuckery in the Black Sea has ensured NATO will be here for the next 25 years.

I’m hopeful the 6th Fleet steps up its presence in the Black Sea and even takes a freedom of navigation trip to the Sea of Azov.

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

By its very definition, NATO is an international institution. I would argue that NATO is the most influential international institution of the past 75 years and has been worth every penny we have spent on it. The ROI is truly incalculable.

NATO will continue to be an important international institution with the rise of Russian aggression, at least as long as we have Mr. Putin to deal with (see the British destroyer dust up today in the Black Sea).

Those architects of the World Bank, UN, the Marshall Plan and NATO set the stage for the post war years. I don’t know if it’s still in print but there is a great book entitled, The Wise Men, that documents the establishment of these institutions.

I invite any of you isolationists (new) America First folks to read it and anything George Kennan wrote. He was required reading when I was at the U.

Yes, I’m an internationalist and believe in these international institutions.

These views are certainly not radical, by definition they are conservative, and encompass the entirety of US foreign policy doctrine of the past 75 years.

The US engagement in the Marshall Plan, the World Bank, UN, and NATO, along with the dual foreign policies of containment and detente (carrots and sticks), served this country very well and may have saved western civilization.

The isolationist lives in an unrealistic flat earth la la land that believes the world ends at our shores.

Strong engagement, strong deterrent, and strong alliances with our partners will continue to be the heart of American foreign policy.

I figured any high-ranking military officer that understood the history of American foreign policy would believe the same thing.

I fully understand. It makes up the core curriculum at the War College. You have a deep belief in Liberalism while I have a deep belief in Realism.

My belief is that in spite of these international institutions, all Nations ultimately behave in their best interest. You believe institutions have the ability to influence this. I do not. I believe they are aspirational.

Both Liberalism and Realism are mainstream and not radical. Realism is not an isolationist philosophy. It simply believes institutions have and will continue to fall short of their expectations, and therefore accounts for this.

Thanks for the debate.

Thank you Soldier and Ursa. I wish to hell either one of you would stoop to politics at times. But, you'd become a politician. Soldier, did you ever have a chance to serve with Dan Bolger? Probabaly the single most intelligent human I've ever been around.

Continue the informative session please. Us older folks need refamiliarization training from time to time.

 

[AZGrizFan]

By its textbook definition, yes, NATO is “ international”. Reality, however, is quite another. The only real time a NATO country gets real interested in it is when it’s THEIR country that’s threatened.

Both NATO and the UN have far outlived their usefulness. Not saying there couldn’t be better organizations that serve the same purpose established, but those two are bloated and ineffective and entirely political in nature at this point.

Putin’s annexation of Crimea and his fuckery in the Black Sea has ensured NATO will be here for the next 25 years.

I’m hopeful the 6th Fleet steps up its presence in the Black Sea and even takes a freedom of navigation trip to the Sea of Azov.

Two perfect points that eviscerate your argument. Putin annexed Crimea from Ukraine and what did NATO do?

And now you ask NATO (or better, AMERICA) to step up IT’S presence in the Black Sea to Sabre rattle. Why can’t France’s fleet do it? Or Great Britain’s? Or Greece’s? Turkey? Anybody? That’s right….WE are NATO. Literally every other country is all hat, no cattle.

 

[Ursa Major]

Putin’s annexation of Crimea and his fuckery in the Black Sea has ensured NATO will be here for the next 25 years.

I’m hopeful the 6th Fleet steps up its presence in the Black Sea and even takes a freedom of navigation trip to the Sea of Azov.

Two perfect points that eviscerate your argument. Putin annexed Crimea from Ukraine and what did NATO do?

And now you ask NATO (or better, AMERICA) to step up IT’S presence in the Black Sea to Sabre rattle. Why can’t France’s fleet do it? Or Great Britain’s? Or Greece’s? Turkey? Anybody? That’s right….WE are NATO. Literally every other country is all hat, no cattle.

Well, Ukraine was not a NATO country. As a result of Crimea, Russia was kicked out of the G-8 and faced significant economic sanctions by the US and the EU. The results are that Ukraine has accelerated its membership with NATO (see Zelensky’s tweet about NATO) and Russia has been attempting to get the sanctions ended (remember Trump floating the idea of inviting them to a G7 meeting?).

I would imagine what this example suggests is Russian aggression in Europe continues and if you’re not part of NATO, you might be next.

NATO has reacted to Russian aggression in the Black Sea with increased patrols. TODAY a Russian patrol boat fired warning shots at a BRITISH destroyer and an SU- 24 dropped four bombs as warning shots along its path in the Black Sea near Crimea.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/russia-says-it-fired-warning-shots-at-a-british-warship-in-the-black-sea-it-didnt-says-uk/2021/06/23/4842757c-d42b-11eb-b39f-05a2d776b1f4_story.html

Video:

Russian jets and ships shadow British warship https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57587777

 

[Ursa Major]

Let me add one thing that tells you about the valor of those British sailors in the Black Sea. The Russians were holding naval war games in the area and a lone destroyer proceeded to penetrate Crimean territorial waters. Yeah, NATO is fucking with the Russians.

 

[SoldierGriz]

I fully understand. It makes up the core curriculum at the War College. You have a deep belief in Liberalism while I have a deep belief in Realism.

My belief is that in spite of these international institutions, all Nations ultimately behave in their best interest. You believe institutions have the ability to influence this. I do not. I believe they are aspirational.

Both Liberalism and Realism are mainstream and not radical. Realism is not an isolationist philosophy. It simply believes institutions have and will continue to fall short of their expectations, and therefore accounts for this.

Thanks for the debate.

Thank you Soldier and Ursa. I wish to hell either one of you would stoop to politics at times. But, you'd become a politician. Soldier, did you ever have a chance to serve with Dan Bolger? Probabaly the single most intelligent human I've ever been around.

Continue the informative session please. Us older folks need refamiliarization training from time to time.

Yes, I served with LTG Bolger in Iraq. He is superb.

 

[SoldierGriz]

Let me add one thing that tells you about the valor of those British sailors in the Black Sea. The Russians were holding naval war games in the area and a lone destroyer proceeded to penetrate Crimean territorial waters. Yeah, NATO is f###[#] with the Russians.

Brits and the Polish are currently our most reliable partners in NATO. I have served closely with Soldiers from both Armies.

A bit dated, but here are the countries that meet the agreed upon NATO funding requirements 2% of GDP:

USA, Bulgaria, Greece, the UK, Estonia, Latvia, Poland and Lithuania. The UK remains the 2nd largest spender in NATO, after the USA.

US provides roughly 70% of the funding...

Germany? France? Canada? Turkey? Others?