GAMEDAY!

[grizzlyjournal]

I thought Davison had to pull up and keep the shot/ball back, because he knew Morehead had long arms, was a good defender, and is 6'7". The shot looked awkward to me. Davison is listed as 6'4". I had a great view and could see the shot was way off immediately. I thought it was off more than 6" to the right. I liked how Moorehead went out on him early, poked his right hand at him a few times, and didn't let him just dribble alone to run the clock down. I too thought Davison waited too long to attack.

Wrong, Davison drove, stepped back and had a clear shot over Morehead. He just missed, thats all.

I was at the game and had a clear view of the shot angle; PlayerRep was correct, the shot was a full 6" to the right. Whether it was caused by good D (slightly overplayed toward Davison's right-handed drive), or by Davison's right-leaning momentum, or simply a missed shot, I can't judge. But the drive, shot and scramble for the rebound was the stuff of classic college hoops. Celebration and agony... all crazy chaos.

 

[PlayerRep]

I thought Davison had to pull up and keep the shot/ball back, because he knew Morehead had long arms, was a good defender, and is 6'7". The shot looked awkward to me. Davison is listed as 6'4". I had a great view and could see the shot was way off immediately. I thought it was off more than 6" to the right. I liked how Moorehead went out on him early, poked his right hand at him a few times, and didn't let him just dribble alone to run the clock down. I too thought Davison waited too long to attack.

Wrong, Davison drove, stepped back and had a clear shot over Morehead. He just missed, thats all.

You just admitted what I said. Davison had to step back, and shoot a bit awkwardly, to get his shot over the long and tall Moorehead. That’s why Davison’s 10 or so foot shot was off so much. It wasn’t a horrible shit but it certainly wasn’t a good shot.

 

[PeauxRouge]

Sorry shower. Didn’t see any taunting.

Your boys walking off the court prior to a handshake the entire league saw, however.


Not that anyone was surprised.

I didn't see any taunting by Griz either. I saw an EWU player who pushed a lot. I saw the black guy who played late do some quasi-dirty stuff, including to Dorsey on the rebound (and for a few seconds after time ran out). And the not shaking hands.

I guess you didn't notice Pridgett's behavior.

At the end of the game I think it was Oguine that blatantly pushed Kim Aiken. I think that was what the refs were looking at at the end of the game. After that kind of poor sportsmanship from UM, I wouldn't expect the EWU players to want to shake hands.

Blatantly pushed him? Maybe because he had Dorsey in a bear hug and wasn't letting go when the game was over. He has his teammate's back. Refs didn't see anything, either. Game was over.

 

[EverettGriz]

Wow. golden shower is kind of like having an “Excuse of the Day” calendar. Every day you get to read a new and exciting excuse!

And with his ewooooers sitting in sixth place at 6-6 (8-15!!!), we should have PLENTY more to look forward to!

 

[MissoulaMarinerFan]

Sorry shower. Didn’t see any taunting.

Your boys walking off the court prior to a handshake the entire league saw, however.


Not that anyone was surprised.

I didn't see any taunting by Griz either. I saw an EWU player who pushed a lot. I saw the black guy who played late do some quasi-dirty stuff, including to Dorsey on the rebound (and for a few seconds after time ran out). And the not shaking hands.

I guess you didn't notice Pridgett's behavior.

At the end of the game I think it was Oguine that blatantly pushed Kim Aiken. I think that was what the refs were looking at at the end of the game. After that kind of poor sportsmanship from UM, I wouldn't expect the EWU players to want to shake hands.

And Oguine pushed Aiken because he was bear-hugging Dorsey for no damn reason.

 

[PlayerRep]

Sorry shower. Didn’t see any taunting.

Your boys walking off the court prior to a handshake the entire league saw, however.


Not that anyone was surprised.

I didn't see any taunting by Griz either. I saw an EWU player who pushed a lot. I saw the black guy who played late do some quasi-dirty stuff, including to Dorsey on the rebound (and for a few seconds after time ran out). And the not shaking hands.

I guess you didn't notice Pridgett's behavior.

At the end of the game I think it was Oguine that blatantly pushed Kim Aiken. I think that was what the refs were looking at at the end of the game. After that kind of poor sportsmanship from UM, I wouldn't expect the EWU players to want to shake hands.

After the game had been over for 6 or so seconds, and right as Aiken finally released Dorsey, Oguine stepped in between them to get Aiken further back away from Dorsey. Two refs were right there and also were involved. They could see there were no "blatant" pushes and no punches. The wrongdoer in the play as the game ended and right after the game was Aiken. The video of the game plays the replay of Aiken and Oguine twice.

Pridgett wasn't taunting EWU, either during the game or after the game. Don't think Pridgett ever went over midcourt after the game ended. Remember that he was on the bench with 5 fouls. Pridgett celebrates mostly looking at the Griz crowd on the south end of the court, on the Griz side. Again, check out the video on replay.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

The Griz had numerous chances to blow this game wide open. They'd get up by 11 or 12, with several opportunities for wide-open threes, and even after getting offensive rebounds, couldn't seem to take advantage of those opportunities. Oh well, that's the way the ball bounces sometimes. I was just happy to see us walk out of Dahlberg Arena with a close win.

On a side note, anybody who watched that game and thought the refs did any favors for Griz simply did not watch the game very closely. The Griz had to overcome the reffing.

 

[Ursa Major]

Wow. golden shower is kind of like having an “Excuse of the Day” calendar. Every day you get to read a new and exciting excuse!

And with his ewooooers sitting in sixth place at 6-6 (8-15!!!), we should have PLENTY more to look forward to!

It's too bad that the BSC will again include each and every team in the tournament. As a resident of Boise, I worry how much the ewu fans will increase Boise's annual FBI Uniform Crime Reporting rates in the 72 hours they'll be here.

 

[EverettGriz]

Meth never sleeps, Ursa. Consequently that weekend, you shouldn’t either.

 

[CleanHOUSE]

Here's the final shot. It makes sense to hold the ball for a final shot when the game is tied. I've rarely watched a team hold the ball a full 15-18 seconds when they're behind by 1. I'll take Bobby Moorehead in that situation any time.

[media]https://twitter.com/MontanaGrizBB/status/1094447852854468609[/media]

I mean he got a really good look though, a little floater from in that close is a pretty good shot. If we had the ball I would love seeing Rorie or Pridgett have a look at a floater like that, I would feel pretty good about it.

CleanHOUSE: I agree with you (I'd add Oguine to your list). Eastern got a good shot that was off by about 6" to the right. That's not what I'm talking about; I'm talking the statisticall odds of basketball, which show that approximately 1 out of every two shots taken in college basketball is a miss, regardless of where it's taken. Eastern could have run that exact same play at about 23 seconds and, if they missed, would likely get another chance for a final shot. Ironically, that's exactly how the final 30 seconds played out at Cheney in the Montana women's game vs. Eastern. The game is up for replay on "Watch Big Sky." It's a classic comparison: Montana lost, but had two good looks over the final 15 seconds. All I'm saying is that -- 90 % of the time -- college coaches opt for a strategy that allows for a second chance if the first shot doesn't fall. There are a lot of "what-ifs" of course. I was just commenting that most coaches, with 30 seconds left, opt for a quick shot for the go-ahead, and then consider other options when there's less than 10 seconds remaining.

O yeah I totally agree, I was just saying EWU guy made a good play in that he executed his plan and got a great look...But yeah the plan itself of holding til the last second I HATE...it usually ends in a frantic dribble of the knee slip and fall down turnover...You have honestly triggered me now lol...waiting til 5 seconds to go for it just takes away so many options its like taking a knee 3x in a row at the 10yrd line to set up an obvious passing situation on 4th down for the win...BUT i always figure teams always do it "hold for the last shot" even at the end of a half so there must be something I don't know. I always think just run your offense and take the best shot then play D, but its like teams are so afraid of defending a lost shot they would rather limit their last shot percentages. At the end of half it makes some sense...but I don't feel like enough of a factor is given to how much you are hurting your scoring opportunity by holding. Just run your offense and take the best look, idk if the idea is if I just hold it at the top of the key at least I can't turn it over....but again at what cost to the quality of shot. And some teams do run normal offense and not iso at the end, but they still move the ball with the clock in mind so guys aren't looking to aggressively create opportunities they are just killing time til 5 seconds or whatever. All I can say with my limited knowledge, I would coach my guys to focus on scoring the clock is not a factor, if we have to finish the game on D we'll take that challenge...few exceptions of course if they have a basketball version Brady or Mahomes, then if they get the ball back we lose so probably want to take a shot at the buzzer in that scenario.

 

[MissoulaMarinerFan]

Here's the final shot. It makes sense to hold the ball for a final shot when the game is tied. I've rarely watched a team hold the ball a full 15-18 seconds when they're behind by 1. I'll take Bobby Moorehead in that situation any time.

[media]https://twitter.com/MontanaGrizBB/status/1094447852854468609[/media]

I mean he got a really good look though, a little floater from in that close is a pretty good shot. If we had the ball I would love seeing Rorie or Pridgett have a look at a floater like that, I would feel pretty good about it.

CleanHOUSE: I agree with you (I'd add Oguine to your list). Eastern got a good shot that was off by about 6" to the right. That's not what I'm talking about; I'm talking the statisticall odds of basketball, which show that approximately 1 out of every two shots taken in college basketball is a miss, regardless of where it's taken. Eastern could have run that exact same play at about 23 seconds and, if they missed, would likely get another chance for a final shot. Ironically, that's exactly how the final 30 seconds played out at Cheney in the Montana women's game vs. Eastern. The game is up for replay on "Watch Big Sky." It's a classic comparison: Montana lost, but had two good looks over the final 15 seconds. All I'm saying is that -- 90 % of the time -- college coaches opt for a strategy that allows for a second chance if the first shot doesn't fall. There are a lot of "what-ifs" of course. I was just commenting that most coaches, with 30 seconds left, opt for a quick shot for the go-ahead, and then consider other options when there's less than 10 seconds remaining.

O yeah I totally agree, I was just saying EWU guy made a good play in that he executed his plan and got a great look...But yeah the plan itself of holding til the last second I HATE...it usually ends in a frantic dribble of the knee slip and fall down turnover...You have honestly triggered me now lol...waiting til 5 seconds to go for it just takes away so many options its like taking a knee 3x in a row at the 10yrd line to set up an obvious passing situation on 4th down for the win...BUT i always figure teams always do it "hold for the last shot" even at the end of a half so there must be something I don't know. I always think just run your offense and take the best shot then play D, but its like teams are so afraid of defending a lost shot they would rather limit their last shot percentages. At the end of half it makes some sense...but I don't feel like enough of a factor is given to how much you are hurting your scoring opportunity by holding. Just run your offense and take the best look, idk if the idea is if I just hold it at the top of the key at least I can't turn it over....but again at what cost to the quality of shot. And some teams do run normal offense and not iso at the end, but they still move the ball with the clock in mind so guys aren't looking to aggressively create opportunities they are just killing time til 5 seconds or whatever. All I can say with my limited knowledge, I would coach my guys to focus on scoring the clock is not a factor, if we have to finish the game on D we'll take that challenge...few exceptions of course if they have a basketball version Brady or Mahomes, then if they get the ball back we lose so probably want to take a shot at the buzzer in that scenario.

Agree with everything except the bolded - Sure, he maybe executed in making sure he took the last shoot, but is it really a great shot/look when you put up a drifting, fade way floater against a guy 3-4 inches taller than you that is in your grill and has a hand in your face as you shoot the ball? Had he made the shot - I'm not sure you can play D on that any better - you just tip your cap.

 

[Grizfan-24]

Re: The last EWU Shot

I think coaches go in a lot of directions here. I however do not ascribe to the clearout philosophy. Davidson is their best scorer, but I’d make the argument that he is a better scorer within the offense than holding the ball 40 feet from the hoop for 15 seconds before activating.

I have had more success over the years doing one of two things if you are down points:

1. Running your offense as you normally would. I don’t like the hold for one unless you are tied. Prefer running your best sets, that give you the best primary and tertiary options.

2. Timeouts and running specials. The Brad Stevens philosophy. Getting your best look running a special that you have designed and practiced.


—
I have had little success at drawing crap up over the years in timeouts. Just hasn’t been that good for me, and I don’t like holding the basketball in iso sets. Just my impression. I just prefer giving players time to explore secondary options.

 

[PlayerRep]

With 10 or so seconds left, I can see giving the ball to a good scorer/driver, and clearing out.

With them having about double that amount of time, I would have run a play or part of the offense. There would have been other options, other than just the main one. Even a longer wide open shot would have been better than what they got, I think. What kind of coach/team can't set up a good play with 20 seconds left?

In any event, I thought the shot should have been taken about 3 or so seconds earlier to give the team a chance for a rebound and outback, or a tip. There would have been time for a tip, but there wasn't time for a cutback. With these extra seconds, UM wouldn't have been left with much time for a last shot win, other than a long one.

As I said, I thought the shot taken looked awkward.

I liked how the Griz defended. Bobby's defense was good, but not perfect. He went an extra step after the shooter pulled up. But Bobby's length and height, made the shooter pull back to make sure he didn't get his shot blocked. Thought the Griz could have boxed out a little better. Rorie got pushed all the way through the basket.

 

[grizzlyjournal]

Re: The last EWU Shot

I think coaches go in a lot of directions here. I however do not ascribe to the clearout philosophy. Davidson is their best scorer, but I’d make the argument that he is a better scorer within the offense than holding the ball 40 feet from the hoop for 15 seconds before activating.

I have had more success over the years doing one of two things if you are down points:

1. Running your offense as you normally would. I don’t like the hold for one unless you are tied. Prefer running your best sets, that give you the best primary and tertiary options.

2. Timeouts and running specials. The Brad Stevens philosophy. Getting your best look running a special that you have designed and practiced.


—
I have had little success at drawing crap up over the years in timeouts. Just hasn’t been that good for me, and I don’t like holding the basketball in iso sets. Just my impression. I just prefer giving players time to explore secondary options.

Good Thread! A lot of perceptive comments. I'll just add this final one. I took "Coaching Basketball 101" in 1973 from Jud Heathcote and Jim Brandenburg. They harped on two philosophical "last second" maxims: 1 -- If you're within one shot of winning a game on your opponent's floor, you've done everything perfectly and within 1 shot of winning (said with the idea that visiting teams are always theoretically starting a game down 10-15 points on an opponent's home-court-advantage floor). 2 -- At home or away, NEVER hold for the final shot when you're down a point; do whatever you can to force your opponent to shoot that last shot. The idea is that there's far more pressure to make the last second shot than to defend against the last second shot. .............. In Saturday's game, after Mike Oguine made his free throw, Eastern's Davison got the ball on an inbounds pass with just over 30 seconds left. He crossed center court with about 24-25 seconds left. Had Eastern run a play similar to their 4-5 previous plays off of regular offense, they would have had a shot within 12-15 seconds. Ironically, those previous 4-5 shots were all makes on layups or driving bank shots. So, using the "lesson plan lecture" from my Coaching 101 teacher back in 1973 (yes, things have changed since then!), it was completely "OK" to allow Eastern -- down by 1 -- to kill their own momentum and dribble-in-place for 14-16 seconds for a last-second, high pressure shot, against the best defensive player in the Big Sky conf.

 

[garizzalies]

I don’t think you guys realize that ewu runs iso sets. Both coaches talked about this after the game. They don’t run a typical O, like you guys seem to be suggesting, where they would go thru the motions, and anyone has a green light if open. Not how they operate; they are looking for particular matchups or the hot hand (like they did at the end). They are not going to change that, and especially not for the last possession.
Holding for the last shot was the right call.
Last year Duke beat, I believe it was VA, and they were down 4 with only 1 second to go. That can be an eternity in b-ball. Road teams especially should play for the win and not leave time to get beat.

 

[PlayerRep]

I don’t think you guys realize that ewu runs iso sets. Both coaches talked about this after the game. They don’t run a typical O, like you guys seem to be suggesting, where they would go thru the motions, and anyone has a green light if open. Not how they operate; they are looking for particular matchups or the hot hand (like they did at the end). They are not going to change that, and especially not for the last possession.
Holding for the last shot was the right call.
Last year Duke beat, I believe it was VA, and they were down 4 with only 1 second to go. That can be an eternity in b-ball. Road teams especially should play for the win and not leave time to get beat.

Then how did EWU end up with 15 assists?

 

[garizzalies]

Simple. By playing b-ball. That’s how it’s done. Some of those come off transition, and/or improvise. Not every play is planned out. And running their iso matchup sets. ISO doesn’t mean one-on-one. I wonder if we can listen to the coach’s post game somehow. They both talked about this