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Scrap the 3-3-5 for Griz/Cat Game

CDAGRIZ said:
hunt-ducks said:
Does the truth hurt, sweet cheeks? If the fuchsia briefs fit, wear them.

Here's my take on the 4-3:

In American football, a 4–3 defense is a defensive alignment consisting of four down linemen and three linebackers. It is called a "base defense" because it is the default defensive alignment used on "base downs" (1st and 2nd downs). However, defenses will readily switch to other defensive alignments (such as a nickel defense or a dime defense) as circumstances change. Alternatively, some defenses use a 3–4 defense.

Contents
1 History
2 Defensive line
3 Linebackers
4 Secondary
5 Teams currently deploying the 4–3 defense
6 References
7 Bibliography
8 External links
History
The Giants employed a 6-1-4 basic formation when they shut out the Browns in 1950, but on many plays this became a 4-1-6 in reality, when the ball was snapped, because the ends dropped off the line to afford extraordinary coverage on passes

— Steve Owen, My Kind of Football, 1952, p. 183
Early in the history of the NFL, teams stacked the defensive line of scrimmage with seven linemen, typically using a 7-diamond or the 7-box.[1] With the liberalization of the forward passing rules in 1933, the defenses began to evolve along with the offensive changes, and by the later 1930s, the standard defense in the NFL and college was the 6-2.[2][3] The successes of the T formation and the introduction of free substitution (abolishing the one-platoon system) in the 1940s led to the almost universal adoption by 1950 of the five-man line.[4] There were two versions popular in the NFL. The 5-3 was an older defense that remained popular through the 1940s and early 1950s.

By the late 1940s, Greasy Neale's 5-2 Eagle defense was creating problems for offenses with a five-man line and four-man secondary. Roughly concurrently, Paul Brown had developed a vertical timing offense. The Browns won every championship of the rival All-America Football Conference from its inception in 1946 through 1949. In the first game of the 1950 season NFL Commissioner Bert Bell had the newly admitted Browns play the champion Philadelphia Eagles on a Saturday ahead of the rest of the league's scheduled Sunday games. The Browns handily won the game in Philadelphia 35–10 and showed they were a force to be reckoned with.

Defenses knew they had to find a way to stop the spread-out vertical offense of the Browns. New York Giants head coach Steve Owen came up with his umbrella defense which showed a 6–1–4 alignment before the snap but could flex (drop back) its two defensive ends into pass protection. The defense was successful, and the only two losses by the Browns in 1950 came at the hands of the Giants. While the concept belonged to Owen, the newly acquired defensive back, Tom Landry, explained and taught the defense.[5] While the defense was a precursor to the traditional 4–3–4 of today, it was not yet evolved into what one would call a traditional 4–3 defense. That took an additional six years.

Other NFL teams came to a version of the 4-3 via a different route. Despite the success of the Browns in the single game with the Eagles, the 5-2 Eagle became more popular, and more teams began to switch to it from the older 5-3 defense.[4] Because the 5-2 lacks a middle linebacker, it was vulnerable to passes over the middle. As a consequence, 5-2 teams experimented with pulling their middle guards back, and many teams were trying this new approach by 1954.[6] In 1956, Landry became the first defensive coordinator to switch to the 4-3 as a base defense. As the 1956 Giants won the NFL Championship, this gave the 4-3 enormous exposure, and just about the whole NFL converted to the new system the following season.[6]

In the original version of the 4–3, the tackles lined up over the offensive guards and the ends lined up on the outside shoulder of the offensive tackles, with the middle linebacker over the center and the other linebackers outside the ends. In the mid-1960s, Hank Stram developed a popular variation, the "Kansas City Stack", which shifted the strong-side defensive end over the tight end, stacked the strong-side linebacker over the tackle, and shifted the weak-side tackle over center. At about the same time, the Cleveland Browns frequently used a weak-side shift. Landry developed a "flex" variation, in order to take advantage of the quickness of his Hall of Fame tackle, Bob Lilly.[7] In Landry's original 4–3 defenses (4–3 inside and 4–3 outside), both defensive tackles were flexed.[8] In the "flex", on a pro set right, with defensive keys showing a run to the right, the right defensive tackle would be flush on the line and was supposed to penetrate.[9] The right defensive end and left defensive tackle were flexed two feet off the line of scrimmage, the right defensive end now head-on with the left offensive tackle (i.e. a 4–2–2–5 front instead of the more common 5–2–2–5 front). This gave the defense a "zig zag" look unlike any other of its day. The 'flex' was developed to counter option blocking by the offensive lines which had learned to move their heads up defensive linemen to either side to create holes. The running back would then patiently run to daylight. The Flex allowed two defensive linemen to read and react better to the option blocking. The other two linemen could either attack upfield or hold their single gap like the flexed linemen and wait for the ball to come to them. These concepts of shooting the gap and shoot and hold the gap are integral parts of today's more modern versions of the 4–3 which include the Tampa 2 scheme, the Seattle Seahawks shoot and hold defense and the 4–3 slide.

So, as you can see, I think we should probably not install a new defense.

Keep making a fool of yourself. Might wanna take a Google break
 
hunt-ducks said:
CDAGRIZ said:
Here's my take on the 4-3:

In American football, a 4–3 defense is a defensive alignment consisting of four down linemen and three linebackers. It is called a "base defense" because it is the default defensive alignment used on "base downs" (1st and 2nd downs). However, defenses will readily switch to other defensive alignments (such as a nickel defense or a dime defense) as circumstances change. Alternatively, some defenses use a 3–4 defense.

Contents
1 History
2 Defensive line
3 Linebackers
4 Secondary
5 Teams currently deploying the 4–3 defense
6 References
7 Bibliography
8 External links
History
The Giants employed a 6-1-4 basic formation when they shut out the Browns in 1950, but on many plays this became a 4-1-6 in reality, when the ball was snapped, because the ends dropped off the line to afford extraordinary coverage on passes

— Steve Owen, My Kind of Football, 1952, p. 183
Early in the history of the NFL, teams stacked the defensive line of scrimmage with seven linemen, typically using a 7-diamond or the 7-box.[1] With the liberalization of the forward passing rules in 1933, the defenses began to evolve along with the offensive changes, and by the later 1930s, the standard defense in the NFL and college was the 6-2.[2][3] The successes of the T formation and the introduction of free substitution (abolishing the one-platoon system) in the 1940s led to the almost universal adoption by 1950 of the five-man line.[4] There were two versions popular in the NFL. The 5-3 was an older defense that remained popular through the 1940s and early 1950s.

By the late 1940s, Greasy Neale's 5-2 Eagle defense was creating problems for offenses with a five-man line and four-man secondary. Roughly concurrently, Paul Brown had developed a vertical timing offense. The Browns won every championship of the rival All-America Football Conference from its inception in 1946 through 1949. In the first game of the 1950 season NFL Commissioner Bert Bell had the newly admitted Browns play the champion Philadelphia Eagles on a Saturday ahead of the rest of the league's scheduled Sunday games. The Browns handily won the game in Philadelphia 35–10 and showed they were a force to be reckoned with.

Defenses knew they had to find a way to stop the spread-out vertical offense of the Browns. New York Giants head coach Steve Owen came up with his umbrella defense which showed a 6–1–4 alignment before the snap but could flex (drop back) its two defensive ends into pass protection. The defense was successful, and the only two losses by the Browns in 1950 came at the hands of the Giants. While the concept belonged to Owen, the newly acquired defensive back, Tom Landry, explained and taught the defense.[5] While the defense was a precursor to the traditional 4–3–4 of today, it was not yet evolved into what one would call a traditional 4–3 defense. That took an additional six years.

Other NFL teams came to a version of the 4-3 via a different route. Despite the success of the Browns in the single game with the Eagles, the 5-2 Eagle became more popular, and more teams began to switch to it from the older 5-3 defense.[4] Because the 5-2 lacks a middle linebacker, it was vulnerable to passes over the middle. As a consequence, 5-2 teams experimented with pulling their middle guards back, and many teams were trying this new approach by 1954.[6] In 1956, Landry became the first defensive coordinator to switch to the 4-3 as a base defense. As the 1956 Giants won the NFL Championship, this gave the 4-3 enormous exposure, and just about the whole NFL converted to the new system the following season.[6]

In the original version of the 4–3, the tackles lined up over the offensive guards and the ends lined up on the outside shoulder of the offensive tackles, with the middle linebacker over the center and the other linebackers outside the ends. In the mid-1960s, Hank Stram developed a popular variation, the "Kansas City Stack", which shifted the strong-side defensive end over the tight end, stacked the strong-side linebacker over the tackle, and shifted the weak-side tackle over center. At about the same time, the Cleveland Browns frequently used a weak-side shift. Landry developed a "flex" variation, in order to take advantage of the quickness of his Hall of Fame tackle, Bob Lilly.[7] In Landry's original 4–3 defenses (4–3 inside and 4–3 outside), both defensive tackles were flexed.[8] In the "flex", on a pro set right, with defensive keys showing a run to the right, the right defensive tackle would be flush on the line and was supposed to penetrate.[9] The right defensive end and left defensive tackle were flexed two feet off the line of scrimmage, the right defensive end now head-on with the left offensive tackle (i.e. a 4–2–2–5 front instead of the more common 5–2–2–5 front). This gave the defense a "zig zag" look unlike any other of its day. The 'flex' was developed to counter option blocking by the offensive lines which had learned to move their heads up defensive linemen to either side to create holes. The running back would then patiently run to daylight. The Flex allowed two defensive linemen to read and react better to the option blocking. The other two linemen could either attack upfield or hold their single gap like the flexed linemen and wait for the ball to come to them. These concepts of shooting the gap and shoot and hold the gap are integral parts of today's more modern versions of the 4–3 which include the Tampa 2 scheme, the Seattle Seahawks shoot and hold defense and the 4–3 slide.

So, as you can see, I think we should probably not install a new defense.

Keep making a fool of yourself. Might wanna take a Google break

I’m posting about football, and you can’t even respond with a football post? Cry, and also, cry. :lol:
 
CDAGRIZ said:
hunt-ducks said:
Keep making a fool of yourself. Might wanna take a Google break

I’m posting about football, and you can’t even respond with a football post? Cry, and also, cry. :lol:

Why don’t you check eBay and see if they have a life for sale?
 
hunt-ducks said:
CDAGRIZ said:
I’m posting about football, and you can’t even respond with a football post? Cry, and also, cry. :lol:

Why don’t you check eBay and see if they have a life for sale?

Cry. You “no-nothing” about football.
 
hunt-ducks said:
garizzalies said:
At least twice now in this thread a poster was making fun of you and you quoted them without realizing it. Remember earlier where they were laughing at you because you have zero self-awareness? Well, you just did it again, and I bet you still have no clue, do you?

Oh really? You are so jealous of me. I guess you have no clue about the poster who told you that I live in your head rent-free. I talk football, and all you do is attempt to provide insults. You are pathetic loser, and I own you. The Halloween pumpkin on your porch has more teeth than you.

Yes really. The jokes were on you, twice! And you walked right into them unwittingly. Like everywhere you walk.

I would love to hear more “about the poster who told [me] that [you] live in [my] head rent-free.” Huh? What? Did you mean to write it that way?

Or are you talking about one of your many other user names? We all know you have several other names—like a nine headed hydra troll—and you admitted it when you lost our bet and even admitted to welching on the bet.
 
I don't have a dog in this fight, but out of curiosity, how did the 2019 Griz defense stack up against the run compared to this year so far? That may be the best way to transitively predict how this current Griz defense will stack up against the MSU run game.
 
garizzalies said:
hunt-ducks said:
Oh really? You are so jealous of me. I guess you have no clue about the poster who told you that I live in your head rent-free. I talk football, and all you do is attempt to provide insults. You are pathetic loser, and I own you. The Halloween pumpkin on your porch has more teeth than you.

Yes really. The jokes were on you, twice! And you walked right into them unwittingly. Like everywhere you walk.

I would love to hear more “about the poster who told [me] that [you] live in [my] head rent-free.” Huh? What? Did you mean to write it that way?

Or are you talking about one of your many other user names? We all know you have several other names—like a nine headed hydra troll—and you admitted it when you lost our bet and even admitted to welching on the bet.

I haven't admitted anything to you, except that your elevator doesn't reach the top floor.. I have NO OTHER USER NAMES. Ask Payton and stop whining like a little girl
 
hunt-ducks said:
kemajic said:
Really wondering what all this has to do with the Griz defense.

But why are you surprised, Kem? It's par for the course in every football thread. These idiots think this site is their private Twitter account. Does it surprise you that you did not receive a single nomination for top poster of all time, even though you talk football in almost every post? This is not a football site any longer, it is social media forum for insecure non-athlete pedestrian Griz fans.
Everyone hates a fact-checker.
 
hunt-ducks said:
I realize that this game is far into the future, but I believe that the defensive coaches should be installing the following defense in preparation for this game. They can work-on this alignment some each practice until game-time.

The Griz need to utilize a 3-4-4 defense versus the Bobcats. Our linebackers are the strongest part of our defense, and putting 4 of them on the field in this game will give us the best chance to stop the solid Bobcat running game. I would bench Fouch, and insert Braxton Hill at LB. Hill is very strong against the run. Along with Robertson being very strong against the run, it would give us 7-8 defenders near the LOS to help stop their running attack.

I welcome any comments to this suggestion. I look forward to having a thread which avoids hi-jacking by the usual meat heads, but am skeptical that this will occur.

In summary, if Bobby chooses to keep the 3-3-5 in place for the Cat game, I believe we will see the following results:

Cats run for 300+ yards
Ifanse runs for 160+ yards
Robby Hauck has his usual 12 tackles from his free safety position

Not even close
 
MontanaJack2006 said:
hunt-ducks said:
I realize that this game is far into the future, but I believe that the defensive coaches should be installing the following defense in preparation for this game. They can work-on this alignment some each practice until game-time.

The Griz need to utilize a 3-4-4 defense versus the Bobcats. Our linebackers are the strongest part of our defense, and putting 4 of them on the field in this game will give us the best chance to stop the solid Bobcat running game. I would bench Fouch, and insert Braxton Hill at LB. Hill is very strong against the run. Along with Robertson being very strong against the run, it would give us 7-8 defenders near the LOS to help stop their running attack.

I welcome any comments to this suggestion. I look forward to having a thread which avoids hi-jacking by the usual meat heads, but am skeptical that this will occur.

In summary, if Bobby chooses to keep the 3-3-5 in place for the Cat game, I believe we will see the following results:

Cats run for 300+ yards
Ifanse runs for 160+ yards
Robby Hauck has his usual 12 tackles from his free safety position

Not even close

He’s a goddamned genius, Gump! :lol: :lol:
 
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