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Shannon Lashes Out on Facebook

We talked about this during our show on Friday...

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tootell-nuanez-april-24th-2020-hour-1-iamwith21-movement/id1121407684?i=1000472579610
 
I have defended Shannon in the past but I will not do so here. Whether Kent Haslam could have handled things better is a matter of conjecture, but handle it he did. It is time to move on.

Of course this wouldn't be the University of Montana without our annual dose of sports related drama! From at least 1970, (Jack Swarthout), forward there doesn't seem to have been a year go by that has been without controversy involving the Dept of Athletics. In one measure, that is what makes being a fan of this school so interesting and so much fun!
 
I'm "in" this group on facebook but not because I support the cause, more because I'm fascinated by the discussions.

As has been frequently pointed out here, her record on/off the court when it comes to games won/lost wasn't good. Her record with players actually graduating was even worse. Her record against the cats and in the tourney over 4 years was abysmal. That just doesn't cut it, especially for a program that honestly has the most lofty expectations in the conference.

The discussion on this page tends to circle around a group of topics.

1. Shannon is a Lady Griz legend with the most prestigious playing record of any female athlete in UM history.

2. Shannon is a wonderful friend and a great person to be around.

3. Shannon and Brian are great parents and long-time staples of the University of Montana.

I don't personally don't know the Schweyen's but I'd assume based on the flood of responses in there that they've built up a great group of supporters and these comments and discussions are all valid and make sense. However it doesn't have much at all to do with what's been happening with the team and her dismissal.

Then there's the following topics:

4. Transfers happen all the time and the new transfer portal is the root cause of all these issues as kids these days are more fickle and their parents are even more awful to deal with as they all demand the perfect treatment. A former LG player in one video posted in there said that players transferring were "immoral" but it seemed like at the time she was speaking more off the top of her head, I don't necessarily think she believes every player that has left the team is without morals.

5. The wave of injuries that hit the team the first few years should have been considered more heavily in this process and how is it Shannon's fault that she had to endure with 3 years of roster-devastating levels of injuries.

6. Kent Haslam entered into discussions with her to give her 2 more years but then pulled the rug out from under her later.

7. They also found posts and shared screen shots of a few posters on FB complaining about Shannon's job as a coach and discussed what the relevance of said people were to the program and if boosters were too influential to Kent in his decision making.

8. Shared articles and discussions, even from Shannon's husband, about the treatment of women as head coaches in college athletics.

9. Some very vocal anti-Haslam talk spurred by many, including previously fired soccer coach Mark Plakorus.

Obviously these are the main points of debate where the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Some good arguments, some not so good. The discussions around these points can be widely debated, this group generally leans to one side of these topics. A few have hopped in to provide counter-points but they generally get blasted off the face of the earth for doing so.

And then there's the really entertaining stuff:

10. A gofundme of $5000, loosely defined to be used to simply run ads in the paper, with lots of "likes" and "loves" but just $850 raised ($500 from one person) and so far what appears to be none from most of the really vocal people in there.

11. A wild array of discussions ranging from suggestion that she should be the next coach for Notre Dame, that she should immediately take Kent's job, that she should be the UM president, that everyone should cut off all funding to athletics and end/ruin the entire athletic department, or that everyone should hop on FB live events for campus recruitment that President Bodnar is hosting and demand her rehiring (group organizers nixed the last idea).

It's... quite a perspective to look at the whole thing.
 
"It's still ramping up:' Shannon Schweyen's Facebook support site continues to grow

'It's still ramping up:' Shannon Schweyen's Facebook support site continues to grow"

"Merrill's #iamwith21 Movement site is supported by a good number of former Montana athletes and coaches, including former Lady Griz Hollie (Tyler) Short, Johanna (Closson) Steenekamp, Britney (Lohman) Gilder and Sonya (Rogers) Stokken. Former Griz football coach Ty Gregorak and football player Ryan Bagley are also supporters."

[What's noticeable there is the lack of names of former LG.]

https://missoulian.com/sports/college/big-sky-conference/university-of-montana/its-still-ramping-up-shannon-schweyens-facebook-support-site-continues-to-grow/article_2e35b473-5d05-5875-bf68-825a0c22f48b.html#tracking-source=home-trending
 
BWahlberg said:
I'm "in" this group on facebook but not because I support the cause, more because I'm fascinated by the discussions.

As has been frequently pointed out here, her record on/off the court when it comes to games won/lost wasn't good. Her record with players actually graduating was even worse. Her record against the cats and in the tourney over 4 years was abysmal. That just doesn't cut it, especially for a program that honestly has the most lofty expectations in the conference.

The discussion on this page tends to circle around a group of topics.

1. Shannon is a Lady Griz legend with the most prestigious playing record of any female athlete in UM history.

2. Shannon is a wonderful friend and a great person to be around.

3. Shannon and Brian are great parents and long-time staples of the University of Montana.

I don't personally don't know the Schweyen's but I'd assume based on the flood of responses in there that they've built up a great group of supporters and these comments and discussions are all valid and make sense. However it doesn't have much at all to do with what's been happening with the team and her dismissal.

Then there's the following topics:

4. Transfers happen all the time and the new transfer portal is the root cause of all these issues as kids these days are more fickle and their parents are even more awful to deal with as they all demand the perfect treatment. A former LG player in one video posted in there said that players transferring were "immoral" but it seemed like at the time she was speaking more off the top of her head, I don't necessarily think she believes every player that has left the team is without morals.

5. The wave of injuries that hit the team the first few years should have been considered more heavily in this process and how is it Shannon's fault that she had to endure with 3 years of roster-devastating levels of injuries.

6. Kent Haslam entered into discussions with her to give her 2 more years but then pulled the rug out from under her later.

7. They also found posts and shared screen shots of a few posters on FB complaining about Shannon's job as a coach and discussed what the relevance of said people were to the program and if boosters were too influential to Kent in his decision making.

8. Shared articles and discussions, even from Shannon's husband, about the treatment of women as head coaches in college athletics.

9. Some very vocal anti-Haslam talk spurred by many, including previously fired soccer coach Mark Plakorus.

Obviously these are the main points of debate where the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Some good arguments, some not so good. The discussions around these points can be widely debated, this group generally leans to one side of these topics. A few have hopped in to provide counter-points but they generally get blasted off the face of the earth for doing so.

And then there's the really entertaining stuff:

10. A gofundme of $5000, loosely defined to be used to simply run ads in the paper, with lots of "likes" and "loves" but just $850 raised ($500 from one person) and so far what appears to be none from most of the really vocal people in there.

11. A wild array of discussions ranging from suggestion that she should be the next coach for Notre Dame, that she should immediately take Kent's job, that she should be the UM president, that everyone should cut off all funding to athletics and end/ruin the entire athletic department, or that everyone should hop on FB live events for campus recruitment that President Bodnar is hosting and demand her rehiring (group organizers nixed the last idea).

It's... quite a perspective to look at the whole thing.

Thx, Brint.

I weighed in with Bodnar and others last week, in support of Haslam.
 
PlayerRep said:
BWahlberg said:
I'm "in" this group on facebook but not because I support the cause, more because I'm fascinated by the discussions.

As has been frequently pointed out here, her record on/off the court when it comes to games won/lost wasn't good. Her record with players actually graduating was even worse. Her record against the cats and in the tourney over 4 years was abysmal. That just doesn't cut it, especially for a program that honestly has the most lofty expectations in the conference.

The discussion on this page tends to circle around a group of topics.

1. Shannon is a Lady Griz legend with the most prestigious playing record of any female athlete in UM history.

2. Shannon is a wonderful friend and a great person to be around.

3. Shannon and Brian are great parents and long-time staples of the University of Montana.

I don't personally don't know the Schweyen's but I'd assume based on the flood of responses in there that they've built up a great group of supporters and these comments and discussions are all valid and make sense. However it doesn't have much at all to do with what's been happening with the team and her dismissal.

Then there's the following topics:

4. Transfers happen all the time and the new transfer portal is the root cause of all these issues as kids these days are more fickle and their parents are even more awful to deal with as they all demand the perfect treatment. A former LG player in one video posted in there said that players transferring were "immoral" but it seemed like at the time she was speaking more off the top of her head, I don't necessarily think she believes every player that has left the team is without morals.

5. The wave of injuries that hit the team the first few years should have been considered more heavily in this process and how is it Shannon's fault that she had to endure with 3 years of roster-devastating levels of injuries.

6. Kent Haslam entered into discussions with her to give her 2 more years but then pulled the rug out from under her later.

7. They also found posts and shared screen shots of a few posters on FB complaining about Shannon's job as a coach and discussed what the relevance of said people were to the program and if boosters were too influential to Kent in his decision making.

8. Shared articles and discussions, even from Shannon's husband, about the treatment of women as head coaches in college athletics.

9. Some very vocal anti-Haslam talk spurred by many, including previously fired soccer coach Mark Plakorus.

Obviously these are the main points of debate where the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Some good arguments, some not so good. The discussions around these points can be widely debated, this group generally leans to one side of these topics. A few have hopped in to provide counter-points but they generally get blasted off the face of the earth for doing so.

And then there's the really entertaining stuff:

10. A gofundme of $5000, loosely defined to be used to simply run ads in the paper, with lots of "likes" and "loves" but just $850 raised ($500 from one person) and so far what appears to be none from most of the really vocal people in there.

11. A wild array of discussions ranging from suggestion that she should be the next coach for Notre Dame, that she should immediately take Kent's job, that she should be the UM president, that everyone should cut off all funding to athletics and end/ruin the entire athletic department, or that everyone should hop on FB live events for campus recruitment that President Bodnar is hosting and demand her rehiring (group organizers nixed the last idea).

It's... quite a perspective to look at the whole thing.

Thx, Brint.

I weighed in with Bodnar and others last week, in support of Haslam.

Not sure if the handling of this was great but as it's now openly out on Social Media it seems it comes down to the emotional component and reality. Would like to hear from Shannon and Kent what exactly was the "culture" of the program and what roster implications changed the whole reported discussion of an extended contract. Shannon wanted to meet to tell her side of the "story" so now she has the chance on this Facebook page in her honor...but nothing so far. Agree she's a Griz legacy but wish to hear the rest of the story. The win/loss status, Bobcat losses and of course the departures and potential departures of many talented girls seem to be the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about.
 
The program was in shambles, Shannon evidently could not relate to the players on a productive level and Haslam has every right to make a decision as an AD. Not sure why this #iamwith21 is even a "thing". Coaches get fired all the time for lack of production. Move on.
 
On April 1 I posted in response to "moneyball" that the procedure used "smacked of the pflu treatment" i.e. the despicable high handed and inexcusable firing without cause of robin pflugrad. The whole aftermath of that has never been acknowledged ; not the Jordy Johnson trial and acquittal which then cost $250 000 in damage for his ordeal; the krakauer screed; the Stitt show; so one would think that when it came time to make this personnel decision Haslam would want to be as fair as he could and avoid any similar situation. The fact is he offered and she accepted a renewal of her contract and then he abruptly changed his mind i.e., "pulled the rug" . He was at least obligated to allow her 1 more year.
 
Never easy when your a legacy or star at a school you eventually get to coach at. My cousin wasn’t a major star, but he was on a final 4 team in the 90s. After his playing days, he worked his way up the coaching ladder, eventually landinG at his Alma mater, which is in the Atlantic-10. He led them back into the top 25, for a short time, but then the team slipped - and he was fired from the job he thought he had for life.

It was very rough in the beginning. I know that he felt betrayed, and not given a full chance. Lot of emotion in the family including hate projected at the AD, and President of the school. I’ve not personally asked him what his emotions were at the time, mainly just know from other family members. Eventually he got another job from a smaller school in the NEC, and led them to March Madness in his first year there.

He is much happier now, but still very hurt over the perceived betrayal at his school. In some ways, I can see where Shannon is coming from. Tough decisions can be destructive and we all relate differently.
 
So what do all these "supporters" want in their Facebook postings. Seems to me most think that regardless of her record she should be HC for life. Her records speaks for itself and based on other factors like graduation rates and players leaving, Haslam chose not to renew her contract. We are not going to get any more detail from Haslam and we shouldn't expect it--personnel matters are confidential and airing all of the issues would serve no purpose anyhow--the fact remains her contract was not renewed and time to move on. The best thing Shannon could do now. is thank everyone of her supporters for their support and say publically that it is time to move on, if she chooses not to do that things will just get nastier. What do she and her group- of supporters expect to truly get out of this? Finally what is the status of her two daughters playing for the Lady Griz--would they even want to if given the opportunity after the way their Mom has blasted the program and the University
 
I will be writing a constructive note to Mr. Bodnar and Mr. Christian as requested by the Shannon movement. The note will be my best take on the situation, that supports her dismissal. I suggest most others involved with this blog area considering LG-BB do so as well.
 
Knowing a lot of the people posting in support of Shannon I can tell you they are the long time drinking buddies of the Schwyene's. Shannon's celebrity position for a quarter of a century was used at booster functions and added to her status. The 21 movement is nothing more than that. Yes I know there are a few that are making their own judgement on the handling of the termination without the one sided Shannon view. For a call to attack the whole athletic department is ludicrous. It seems like a who can bitch the most or loudest. There were people who reached out to Shannon right after she was let go via text and the only return from Shannon was a link to the 21 movement site.
All programs are built on the many who played there and many leaders who coached there. I can remember 7 coaches on the men's side during Robins coaching career and all are what make up the culture of the men's team. That includes Don whom I have great respect for. Social media has altered the peoples ability to hold rational conversation and debate without censorship. The 21 movement show that. They are working for a lost cause. If you haven't yet listen to the first segment of Colter's podcast I would recommend it.
 
ThinkingGriz said:
Knowing a lot of the people posting in support of Shannon I can tell you they are the long time drinking buddies of the Schwyene's. Shannon's celebrity position for a quarter of a century was used at booster functions and added to her status. The 21 movement is nothing more than that. Yes I know there are a few that are making their own judgement on the handling of the termination without the one sided Shannon view. For a call to attack the whole athletic department is ludicrous. It seems like a who can bitch the most or loudest. There were people who reached out to Shannon right after she was let go via text and the only return from Shannon was a link to the 21 movement site.
All programs are built on the many who played there and many leaders who coached there. I can remember 7 coaches on the men's side during Robins coaching career and all are what make up the culture of the men's team. That includes Don whom I have great respect for. Social media has altered the peoples ability to hold rational conversation and debate without censorship. The 21 movement show that. They are working for a lost cause. If you haven't yet listen to the first segment of Colter's podcast I would recommend it.

"long time drinking buddies of Shannon" hints to part of the problem.
 
The perspective that "it's really a bad look for the University" is right on point! Better yet is the comment that was made earlier "what do you really expect will come of this?" Seems like a no win situation with nothing positive that could come from it...
 
:thumb:
Btown said:
The program was in shambles, Shannon evidently could not relate to the players on a productive level and Haslam has every right to make a decision as an AD. Not sure why this #iamwith21 is even a "thing". Coaches get fired all the time for lack of production. Move on.
 
As most of you know, I have had some rather significant concerns about the Schweyen tenure as head coach. I felt at the end of last year, that I couldn't see this ending well for her. There were too many issues, way too many in my estimation, that when you looked at the program you couldn't ignore. Yet in spite of all that Kent gave her a one year extension. Things improved, and maybe just by the on the court improvement, maybe she merited a renewal. That didn't mean things had improved elsewhere. That is what the group is missing, that essential piece, about the health of the program.

I think most of us have known a number of posters in that group in one way or another over the past 20-30 years. I know a good many of them, a few of them I would call 'friends,' and they are deeply and emotionally connected to Shannon. I understand, at least minimally there desire to stick their necks out for Shannon. They have a tight-nit group of friends and family that will not have handled this well in any way. This is what you want friends to do.

I will say this, because I believe it to my core, the program massively needs a reset and push forward in all facets. I just don't think we can expect the status quo to be maintained and not completely lose ground. Legacy and heritage go only so far.
 
Grizfan-24 said:
As most of you know, I have had some rather significant concerns about the Schweyen tenure as head coach. I felt at the end of last year, that I couldn't see this ending well for her. There were too many issues, way too many in my estimation, that when you looked at the program you couldn't ignore. Yet in spite of all that Kent gave her a one year extension. Things improved, and maybe just by the on the court improvement, maybe she merited a renewal. That didn't mean things had improved elsewhere. That is what the group is missing, that essential piece, about the health of the program.

I think most of us have known a number of posters in that group in one way or another over the past 20-30 years. I know a good many of them, a few of them I would call 'friends,' and they are deeply and emotionally connected to Shannon. I understand, at least minimally there desire to stick their necks out for Shannon. They have a tight-nit group of friends and family that will not have handled this well in any way. This is what you want friends to do.

I will say this, because I believe it to my core, the program massively needs a reset and push forward in all facets. I just don't think we can expect the status quo to be maintained and not completely lose ground. Legacy and heritage go only so far.

A lot of merit and logic in your statement, 24... in both content and tone. I'd wager that all but a mere handful of the eGriz community have kept the embers of hope alive for the program over the past two years.

Without citing specifics, I've been a mainline supporter of Montana WBB since the early 80s, and an enthusiastic supporter of coach Schweyen... always hoping the best for her; she knows the game.

BUT, citing your "concerns..." Yes, as a former basketball journalist familiar with "patterns of losing," (usually on other teams) I've seen the obvious omens (more than statistics) that cannot be brushed aside. You hope a young coach can learn from mis-steps, and some do. Regardless of how things were on the verge of this team's collapse/implosion at season's end, there were troubling and puzzling signs earlier on. Had the team won any of three inexplicable home losses (UNC, Idaho State & MSU) I think coach Schweyen would be planning for next season right now. But, the stark reality of a depleted 4-person roster due to the resultant attrition was merely the final, very observable sign that required Mr. Haslam into a forced re-investigation of the program.

Unlike others here, I can cite NO obvious personality or conduct issues. I really like coach Schweyen and enjoyed visiting with her occasionally after Grizzly coaches shows. I feel badly for the situation and wish coach Schweyen the best. For UM and its supportive communities however, it's time to move on.
 
One question I have is, given all of the prior chatter about multiple players (and parents) having problems with the coach in the past several years, and chatter about player survey type stuff from a year or more ago, why didn't Haslam know the extent of the problem when he talked to the coach after the conference tourney? I still support the decision, and don't think Haslam could have ignored the huge player defection problem, but am curious as to why the extent of the player dissatisfaction was not known at the time of the extension discussion.

Also, while there may be many who like and support the coach, there are also a large number of people who don't think she was going to be successful and-or don't seem to like her. I'm not talking about former players (or parents) who played for her in the last 4 years.
 
If I could give Shannon advice, it would be to build bridges, not burn them. It would be "you promised 20 days ago" is not a convincing argument as to why you should be coach. It would be adversity reveals character. It would be don't air your grievances publicly, let alone spend advertising $$$ doing so. It would be drinking buddies who live vicariously through you are not the best people to take advice from. It would be you hired assistants who based their family's future on your leadership, so you have a duty to help, not destroy, their careers. It would be you recruited girls and told their parents you would take care of them, so don't bring them down with you. It would be good leaders, particularly those of young women, don't act this way.
 
Astute Griz - nicely stated.

If adversity reveals character, the character being shown publicly during the current situation may be indicative of the character shown behind the scenes during the last 4 years of adversity.
 
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