Some Ask a Taboo Question: Is America Overreacting to Coronavirus?

[PlayerRep]

Kind of my point. We have built up some immunity and have a vaccine to the flu yet we will still lose more people this year than to this corona virus in the US. Why are the corona deaths more important than the flu deaths? My answer is because we are sheep being lead by the media and our attention span is about as long as my ****! Remember right before this crisis when we were dying and overwhelming our medical facilities with vaping deaths? Not a peep about that today. Before that the world was going to come to an end over the Australian fires. Before that, before that, before that.... I'm not saying that we shouldn't pay attention to this new virus, but I think the response is Chicken Little-ish and sometimes our responses are just to feel like we are doing something whether it makes a difference or not (buying toilet paper and wearing flimsy masks when we are not sick). Many people's mental status would immediately improve if they would turn off the TV, stay off the internet, put down their phones, and go outside and take a walk and enjoy nature.

Nobody knows how many will ultimately succumb to Covid, be we do know that the number would be substantially higher if we didn't do anything to slow the spread of it. We're talking in the millions.

Has anyone in recent times suggested doing nothing?

The issue is how much to do, and how much economic and other damage will be done by doing particular things.

Is the world being saved by a stay in place order for rural eastern MT, about 75,000 square miles and half the state, where there is only 1 case? A woman who returned from out of country.

 

[argh!]

just had a swab for a covid test, because i have to have an urgent medical procedure soon. feels like i had a q-tip shoved into my brain. ouch.

Take care of yourself.

thanks, will do the best possible.

 

[cclarkblues]

just had a swab for a covid test, because i have to have an urgent medical procedure soon. feels like i had a q-tip shoved into my brain. ouch.

Take care of yourself.

+1

 

[horribilisfan8184]

If half the people who have this virus show no symptoms, and the majority of the other half who do show symptoms are so mild they don't seek medical treatment, do we really have any idea what the true mortality rate is? Has anybody seen any attempt to quantify the true numbers?

 

[timp]

Why is Montana treated like NYC? More deaths from the seasonal flu than the Kung Flouy.

 

[timp]

Also, everyone making the decisions for you and I to close /lose businesses has and will have every paycheck cash. No loss for them.

 

[Dutch Lane]

Hopefully, this link will get you to the MT projections. If not, look around for the MT part. This is from the UW med school group, which is one of the top predictors.

https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections

22 deaths by Aug. 4. April 13 peak. 45 beds needed; 1669 available. 8 ICU beds needed; 85 available. 7 ventilators needed.

I know anything can happen, but stay-in-place order? And ruin much of the MT economy? And totally screw bars/restaurants and many other businesses? And waste opportunity to help kids struggling in school? And Missoula has closed playgrounds for kids? Where are kids who don't have a backyard supposed to go?

And encourage and cause hospitals and surgery centers to not take on routine patients, to keep beds and personnel available? And how about those people who need the routine care and surgeries?

Flu activity in MT through Feb. 29: "Influenza activity continued to increase during week 9 with 1,188 new cases reported.
• Season to date, 8,572 cases, 361 hospitalizations, and nine deaths due to influenza have been
reported."

https://dphhs.mt.gov/Portals/85/publichealth/documents/CDEpi/StatisticsandReports/CurrentActivity/MontanaInfluenzaSummary.pdf

29 highway fatalities to date.

Careful PR. I've found that people get pretty defensive when you mention other viruses and incidents that kill far more people than the Corona. For whatever reason, lives lost to this virus are much more important to lives lost due to other illnesses. I haven't figured out why, but that seems to be what we've learned.

At least their projections of deaths' seem to be getting a bit more realistic. Even Fauchi said yesterday he's optimistic it'd be lower than 100,000 in our country. An expert said this morning he believes much lower than that. I hope he's right, that's still a lot of lives lost.

Meanwhile domestic violence, child abuse and suicides are up. We're really walking a fine line currently.

Dui defense is way down, which is a good thing existentially but not for lawyers. So there’s that. We average about 10-15 calls a month, 2 in the couple weeks. Arrests go up and down with the seasons and holidays, usually spikes at cat/griz. Lol

 

[PlayerRep]

People turning to comfort and processed foods, and standbys from the old days.

"‘I Just Need the Comfort’: Processed Foods Make a Pandemic Comeback

Shoppers, moved by nostalgia and hunting for longer shelf lives, are returning to old standbys like Chef Boyardee and Campbell’s soup."

"Just a few months ago, Sue Smith considered herself a healthy eater. She ate salads with kale and quinoa. She counted calories. She eliminated processed sugar from her diet. She avoided dairy products.

But in the past month, as the coronavirus pandemic made her housebound, Ms. Smith, a writer in Los Angeles, began shopping — and eating — completely differently.

During a trip to the grocery store, she bought SpaghettiOs. She threw two large boxes of Goldfish crackers into her shopping cart. And she went all in on dairy.

“I’m eating ice cream. Ice cream bars,” Ms. Smith said. “And tonight, I’m making a spinach-artichoke lasagna. There’s so much dairy in it. But I just need the comfort that I get from that food right now.”

Many restaurants have closed, and shoppers are reaching for frozen pizza and boxes of cereal instead of organic greens and whole grains.

Many large food businesses like the Campbell Soup Company, which had seen steady declines in soup sales the last two years, are now ramping up production and temporarily increasing wages for hourly employees to meet the higher demand. In the last month, sales of Campbell’s soup soared 59 percent from a year earlier. Prego pasta sauce increased 52 percent, and sales of its Pepperidge Farm Goldfish crackers climbed nearly 23 percent.

Similarly, Kraft Heinz, whose products had fallen far out of favor with consumers, resulting in massive write-downs in the values of its Kraft natural cheese and Oscar Mayer cold cuts businesses a year ago, told investors last week that some of its factories were working three shifts to meet high demand for products like its macaroni and cheese."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/07/business/coronavirus-processed-foods.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

 

[PlayerRep]

"Italy Is Sending Another Warning

This is what a country a month into lockdown looks like: desperate, hungry and scared."

"First, there was the lockdown. Then the sight of a health care system stretched to the point of collapse and the terror of a rising death count.

Now, nearly a month after the country went into lockdown, Italy is sending another warning. The economy is in trouble, bound for a major contraction. And the precariously situated workers — self-employed, seasonal, informal — are suffering the most. It’s not clear how much longer they can survive.

Informal workers — carers, cleaners, construction workers, waiters, couriers, drivers, agriculture workers and many more — are doubly vulnerable. First, because the work on which they depend has disappeared. Second, because the measures put in place by the Italian government to ameliorate the worse effects of the crisis — a moratorium on mortgages, loan repayment holidays for businesses and wage protections for those laid off — do not protect them.

The situation for many is bleak. “Everyone here is having problems now,” Mr. Gallinari, the florist, said. “There are lots of people who are going hungry. You can see that their behavior is beginning to change.” Reports of social unrest across the region — shopkeepers forced to give away food, even some thefts — have ruffled a usually close-knit community. “The other night I caught some kids trying to break into my garage,” Mr. Gallinari said. “This is new for us.”

And for insecure workers across the world, the siren is ringing."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/07/opinion/italy-coronavirus-naples.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

 

[PlayerRep]

Careful PR. I've found that people get pretty defensive when you mention other viruses and incidents that kill far more people than the Corona. For whatever reason, lives lost to this virus are much more important to lives lost due to other illnesses. I haven't figured out why, but that seems to be what we've learned.

At least their projections of deaths' seem to be getting a bit more realistic. Even Fauchi said yesterday he's optimistic it'd be lower than 100,000 in our country. An expert said this morning he believes much lower than that. I hope he's right, that's still a lot of lives lost.

Meanwhile domestic violence, child abuse and suicides are up. We're really walking a fine line currently.

Dui defense is way down, which is a good thing existentially but not for lawyers. So there’s that. We average about 10-15 calls a month, 2 in the couple weeks. Arrests go up and down with the seasons and holidays, usually spikes at cat/griz. Lol

I assumed dui's would go down, with no bars and restaurants open, and parties not supposed to be occurring, but hadn't seen or heard any stats. Thx.

 

[PlayerRep]

The younger lawyers at my daughter's big NYC law firm, have convinced the the firm that they need to do Friday Zoom cocktails, since they aren't together and can't connect and socialize. The firm will reimburse them $25 each Friday for food/drinks.

 

[PlayerRep]

"New Battle for Those on Coronavirus Front Lines: Child Custody

Doctors, firefighters and others who risk exposure to Covid-19 are being taken to court by ex-spouses who want to keep them away from their children."

"Last month, Dr. Bertha Mayorquin, a New Jersey physician, told her soon-to-be ex-husband that there was a change in plans. After two weeks of providing treatment by video as a precaution against the coronavirus, she would resume seeing patients in person.

But when she left work on a Friday to pick up her two daughters for the weekend, her husband, Wendell Surdukowski, presented her with a court order granting him sole temporary custody of the young girls. His lawyer had convinced a judge that Dr. Mayorquin could expose the children, 11 and 8, to Covid-19.

The doctor, an internist, had intended to spend the weekend celebrating her younger daughter’s birthday. Instead, she spent it frantically assembling 50 pages of paperwork to try to reverse the order.

That question is arising across the country as a growing number of parents have begun to withhold access to their children from former spouses or partners over fears of infection, according to families, lawyers and judges. For health care or other essential workers, the battles are infused with heightened controversy. Some say they shouldn’t be punished for doing crucial services; their counterparts argue that the jobs pose too great a risk to other family members.

“If there’s an imminent threat to the kid’s well-being, you must take action, whether that’s something like drug abuse or a virus,” Mr. Surdukowski said. “Watching the news, looking at the cases of doctors being sick, you cannot tell me that they are not at a higher risk.” Mr. Surdukowski, who has an underlying condition, had told the judge that he was also concerned about his own health."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/07/us/coronavirus-child-custody.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

 

[Dutch Lane]

Nobody knows how many will ultimately succumb to Covid, be we do know that the number would be substantially higher if we didn't do anything to slow the spread of it. We're talking in the millions.

Has anyone in recent times suggested doing nothing?

The issue is how much to do, and how much economic and other damage will be done by doing particular things.

Is the world being saved by a stay in place order for rural eastern MT, about 75,000 square miles and half the state, where there is only 1 case? A woman who returned from out of country.

But isn’t that the whole point, to stay in place until the pandemic is controlled? So if what we are seeing is no fast moving spread of it across state boundaries then it seems to be working. But at what cost right? I think the thinking at the think tanks are far less of a cost then a nation wide pandemic would do to the country. So the experts lose the pr campaign by winning the war against the spread.

I think to get a cohesive message across and to stun the populace into compliance (not quite like the ccp does) Trump should have called for all states to close down at the same time and leave most science based decision making to the best panel of minds in the country That’s one of things where he and his team the dropped ball by hedging too much. Also he should never have kept deflecting to Obama which he does for no good political reason because it starts really to piss off more and more reasonable people. But he keeps doing it and when the press researches his specific claims they keep coming back as more lies and deflecting. PR re read my post I said he had 6 months to turn things around, meaning before the election. He should have read Winston Churchill’s book on leadership or listened to someone who did. You don’t lead by always deflecting to Obama. psychologically people start to get tired of it because when there is fear people yearn for a strong leader or at least the facade of one. Churchill led by appearing strong and resolute against all odds. People get behind that in a time of national crisis. He badly needed to adjust his executive style and his whole persona in this crisis and absolutely stop hedging and deflecting to Obama, who people remember led the country out of a recession. His I take “no responsibility” statement in the midst of a national crisis which would be like Roosevelt saying “December 7, 1941 is a day that I will take no responsibility for.”

 

[Dutch Lane]

The younger lawyers at my daughter's big NYC law firm, have convinced the the firm that they need to do Friday Zoom cocktails, since they aren't together and can't connect and socialize. The firm will reimburse them $25 each Friday for food/drinks.

Are people in nyc wearing masks? My neighbor gave me one last night wore it to talk with her felt strange. Lol

 

[PlayerRep]

Austria and Denmark starting to open up, or plan it. I am told that their virus stats are similar to the US, on a per capital basis, but I haven't checked on that yet.

"Austria and Denmark on Monday became the first European countries to announce plans to reopen their societies after coronavirus lockdowns, hoping they may have already weathered the worst of the first wave of the pandemic.

Belgium, France, Spain and others are similarly examining how they will loosen some of the restrictions on public life. But European leaders are cautious because some countries that have sought to return to normal, such as Singapore and Japan, have seen waves of new infections.

Both Austria and Denmark plan to lift restrictions in stages. In Austria, small shops are slated to reopen April 14, with larger stores to follow on May 1. Restaurants, hotels and schools may be able to reopen in mid-May - though that decision will be assessed at the end of April. Strict rules about masks, social distancing and the number of people allowed into a store at any one time will remain in place, but public events may resume in July."

https://www.thehour.com/news/article/Austria-is-first-in-Europe-to-announce-easing-of-15181882.php

 

[PlayerRep]

In CA, a guy was arrested for paddle boarding, alone. A woman, for driving, alone.

I heard a news commentator say that he didn't know if the US has flattened the curve or not, but the US has sure flattened the economy.

 

[PlayerRep]

Has anyone in recent times suggested doing nothing?

The issue is how much to do, and how much economic and other damage will be done by doing particular things.

Is the world being saved by a stay in place order for rural eastern MT, about 75,000 square miles and half the state, where there is only 1 case? A woman who returned from out of country.

But isn’t that the whole point, to stay in place until the pandemic is controlled? So if what we are seeing is no fast moving spread of it across state boundaries then it seems to be working. But at what cost right? I think the thinking at the think tanks are far less of a cost then a nation wide pandemic would do to the country. So the experts lose the pr campaign by winning the war against the spread.

I think to get a cohesive message across and to stun the populace into compliance (not quite like the ccp does) Trump should have called for all states to close down at the same time and leave most science based decision making to the best panel of minds in the country That’s one of things where he and his team the dropped ball by hedging too much. Also he should never have kept deflecting to Obama which he does for no good political reason because it starts really to piss off more and more reasonable people. But he keeps doing it and when the press researches his specific claims they keep coming back as more lies and deflecting. PR re read my post I said he had 6 months to turn things around, meaning before the election. He should have read Winston Churchill’s book on leadership or listened to someone who did. You don’t lead by always deflecting to Obama. psychologically people start to get tired of it because when there is fear people yearn for a strong leader or at least the facade of one. Churchill led by appearing strong and resolute against all odds. People get behind that in a time of national crisis. He badly needed to adjust his executive style and his whole persona in this crisis and absolutely stop hedging and deflecting to Obama, who people remember led the country out of a recession. His I take “no responsibility” statement in the midst of a national crisis which would be like Roosevelt saying “December 7, 1941 is a day that I will take no responsibility for.”

I see zero evidence that stay at home is helping eastern MT. Jeez, man, there is one case there, and the person is isolated. The person got the virus while traveling out for the country.

My view is that there has never has been anything close to a pandemic in MT. Heck, I may get it tomorrow and die, but that doesn't make it a pandemic.  

Science and modeling has been consistently wrong on much of this. Why leave it to them?

Trump has gotten more popular during the virus. Do you really think Biden is going to win? People don't like Trump, like me, but Biden is a pretty weak candidate. The convention is going to be later. Campaigning is going to be tougher.

 

[PlayerRep]

In MT:

There are 6 deaths. 3, I think, from one old folks home in Toole County. 1 from a 77 year old guy who got it out of state. Bullock has shut down 75,000 sq miles of eastern MT, where there is one case (someone who had been out of country).

Only 1 death in the largest counties in MT.

So far, MT cases peaked on March 26: 35.

Then, 23, 25, 18, 14, 23, 18, 16, 25, 21, 13, 16.

Only been over 25 once. Models have been consistently and wrong.

In NY, new hospitalizations are going down. LA is experiencing the same thing.

CDC director now saying death totals will be way lower than was predicted even 10 days ago.

 

[PlayerRep]

US is losing about $17.5 Billion of GNP every day.

States are not needing as many beds or ventilators as they were saying even last week.

 

[timp]

This is all over blown bullsh*t. There will be less deaths from the commie virus than the flu. The flu is here EVERY year. Destroy the economy/jobs/livelihoods because OrangeManbad. The globalists do not care about you.