The lack of a run game

[garizzalies]

What’s not true? Or did you mean to just disagree with my opinion?

UM has had some good o-lines and good o-lineman in the past decade, in my view. Last year's, for one. 10 years ago was a national champ game o-line. Also, players like Reese, Poehls, Kistler, Burton after that, to name a few.

So, I don't agree that UM has been chasing its tail on the OL for about a decade. One of things we're seeing now is a weak class that was mostly from Delaney's last year (for whatever reason) and what must have been a weak class from Stitt's first year. And some injuries and departures. So, UM is left with a lot of youth and inexperience, but not without talent.

If Germer can cobble together a credible o-line, despite the recent injurie; no more big injuries occur; and the injured guys come back soon; I am hoping the o-line will improve and will be stronger later in the year. While I don't know how soon Calhoun will be back on the field from being in the doghouse, I think he would make more out of small holes than what our other backs have done so far.

I’m not going to argue with you over semantics. To me, what you just described is chasing their tail. You have a different view/definition. I say we’ve been chasing our tail on the OL for a decade, and you mention a good OL “10 years ago.” :|
We may have had a good lineman here or there, but we certainly have not had a great overall line since Hauck left (with maybe one exception). No DOLA in a long time. Some of it is scheme and changing scheme, some is attrition, etc. But I think the biggest factor was recruiting priorities. You appear to at least somewhat agree with that as you mentioned at least 2 “weak classes.” So I’m not sure what we’re even arguing about. What do you think is the main factor contributing to the OLine issues?

I didn't realize we were arguing. Were we? Again, I just don't agree with chasing tail for 10 years comment. Also, don't agree that what you just said is chasing tail for 10 years. You agree that I don't have to agree with you and I can have my own view, right. I'm okay with the semantics explanation.

I think I get the semantics now. I’m saying they were chasing THEIR tail for a decade; you're saying they were not “chasing tail.” Those phrases have two completely different meanings; almost opposites. So we’re both right.

It’s a joke. We’re cool. But you didn’t answer my question.

 

[PlayerRep]

Your last question. Don't know. Assume youth and inexperience. Some players are ready and can play o-linewell or fairly well right away. Most can't. They need time to develop and gain strength. Maybe Sirmon can step up. He's older and apparently strong.

 

[AZGrizFan]

NDSU Run Game:

2013 - 5.9 per run
2014 - 5.2 per run
2015 - 5.0 per run
2016 - 6.2 per run
2017 - 5.9 per run

Some perspective.

Griz Run Game:
2013 - 4.7 per run
2014 - 5.1 per run
2015 - 3.6 per run
2016 - 4.4 per run
2017 - 3.7 per run

Granted NDSU is a "run-focused" offense, but the only two years out of the past 5 that were decent were '13 & '14. Maaaaaaybe '16 if you want to stretch it. Either a) the run game was not important in Stitt's version of an offense or B) Delaney benefited from guys recruited by Hauck & Pflu, while Stitt was left with O-linemen recruited by Delaney. Or a combination of both.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

Maybe we're just sand-bagging and pretending like we don't have a run game. Did you ever think of that? Maybe Bobby Hauck is four steps in front of you. Or maybe we lack a run game. The skies are hazy.

 

[4theluvofgriz]

NDSU Run Game:

2013 - 5.9 per run
2014 - 5.2 per run
2015 - 5.0 per run
2016 - 6.2 per run
2017 - 5.9 per run

Some perspective.

Give it a rest already! How stupid could ANYONE be to even attempt to spin it to suggest that our running game is anything close to NDSU! You try to include broken pass plays where Sneed scrambles for big yardage in our running game stats. I assure you that Bobby doesn't count those yards. Neither does NDSU. Dude, you are trying way too hard, but only embarrassing yourself with your convoluted logic.

 

[PlayerRep]

NDSU Run Game:

2013 - 5.9 per run
2014 - 5.2 per run
2015 - 5.0 per run
2016 - 6.2 per run
2017 - 5.9 per run

Some perspective.

Griz Run Game:
2013 - 4.7 per run
2014 - 5.1 per run
2015 - 3.6 per run
2016 - 4.4 per run
2017 - 3.7 per run

Granted NDSU is a "run-focused" offense, but the only two years out of the past 5 that were decent were '13 & '14. Maaaaaaybe '16 if you want to stretch it. Either a) the run game was not important in Stitt's version of an offense or B) Delaney benefited from guys recruited by Hauck & Pflu, while Stitt was left with O-linemen recruited by Delaney. Or a combination of both.

Delaney, a former running back coach, emphasized the run, and used personnel, like fullbacks and tight ends and 2 backs, to accomplish. That is certainly at least part of the difference. Stitt didn't emphasize the running game.

 

[PlayerRep]

NDSU Run Game:

2013 - 5.9 per run
2014 - 5.2 per run
2015 - 5.0 per run
2016 - 6.2 per run
2017 - 5.9 per run

Some perspective.

Give it a rest already! How stupid could ANYONE be to even attempt to spin it to suggest that our running game is anything close to NDSU! You try to include broken pass plays where Sneed scrambles for big yardage in our running game stats. I assure you that Bobby doesn't count those yards. Neither does NDSU. Dude, you are trying way too hard, but only embarrassing yourself with your convoluted logic.

Huh? What are you talking about? Soldier just posted the NDSU stats. He said nothing else. Man, you are really losing it. Do you not understand the word "perspective"?

 

[AZGrizFan]

NDSU Run Game:

2013 - 5.9 per run
2014 - 5.2 per run
2015 - 5.0 per run
2016 - 6.2 per run
2017 - 5.9 per run

Some perspective.

Give it a rest already! How stupid could ANYONE be to even attempt to spin it to suggest that our running game is anything close to NDSU! You try to include broken pass plays where Sneed scrambles for big yardage in our running game stats. I assure you that Bobby doesn't count those yards. Neither does NDSU. Dude, you are trying way too hard, but only embarrassing yourself with your convoluted logic.

Hey numbnuts....do you think it's remotely possible that those NDSU stats INCLUDE Stick's yardage? You know, that guy who plays QB for NDSU? You really think NDSU takes out Stick's yards from their total? You really are a fucking moron.

 

[AZGrizFan]

NDSU Run Game:

2013 - 5.9 per run
2014 - 5.2 per run
2015 - 5.0 per run
2016 - 6.2 per run
2017 - 5.9 per run

Some perspective.

Give it a rest already! How stupid could ANYONE be to even attempt to spin it to suggest that our running game is anything close to NDSU! You try to include broken pass plays where Sneed scrambles for big yardage in our running game stats. I assure you that Bobby doesn't count those yards. Neither does NDSU. Dude, you are trying way too hard, but only embarrassing yourself with your convoluted logic.

Huh? What are you talking about? Soldier just posted the NDSU stats. He said nothing else. Man, you are really losing it. Do you not understand the word "perspective"?

No, he obviously doesn't.

 

[AZGrizFan]

NDSU Run Game:

2013 - 5.9 per run
2014 - 5.2 per run
2015 - 5.0 per run
2016 - 6.2 per run
2017 - 5.9 per run

Some perspective.

Griz Run Game:
2013 - 4.7 per run
2014 - 5.1 per run
2015 - 3.6 per run
2016 - 4.4 per run
2017 - 3.7 per run

Granted NDSU is a "run-focused" offense, but the only two years out of the past 5 that were decent were '13 & '14. Maaaaaaybe '16 if you want to stretch it. Either a) the run game was not important in Stitt's version of an offense or B) Delaney benefited from guys recruited by Hauck & Pflu, while Stitt was left with O-linemen recruited by Delaney. Or a combination of both.

Delaney, a former running back coach, emphasized the run, and used personnel, like fullbacks and tight ends and 2 backs, to accomplish. That is certainly at least part of the difference. Stitt didn't emphasize the running game.

Yep....I knew the answer was a), but I was fishing.

 

[SoldierGriz]

NDSU Run Game:

2013 - 5.9 per run
2014 - 5.2 per run
2015 - 5.0 per run
2016 - 6.2 per run
2017 - 5.9 per run

Some perspective.

Give it a rest already! How stupid could ANYONE be to even attempt to spin it to suggest that our running game is anything close to NDSU! You try to include broken pass plays where Sneed scrambles for big yardage in our running game stats. I assure you that Bobby doesn't count those yards. Neither does NDSU. Dude, you are trying way too hard, but only embarrassing yourself with your convoluted logic.

I provided those number for perspective and context - added depth to the pretty good football-related discussion occurring in the thread I didn't compare the Griz running game to NDSU; learn to read.

Running the ball effectively - particularly in the playoffs - is REQUIRED to win.

You add nothing - as usual.

 

[4theluvofgriz]

NDSU Run Game:

2013 - 5.9 per run
2014 - 5.2 per run
2015 - 5.0 per run
2016 - 6.2 per run
2017 - 5.9 per run

Some perspective.

Give it a rest already! How stupid could ANYONE be to even attempt to spin it to suggest that our running game is anything close to NDSU! You try to include broken pass plays where Sneed scrambles for big yardage in our running game stats. I assure you that Bobby doesn't count those yards. Neither does NDSU. Dude, you are trying way too hard, but only embarrassing yourself with your convoluted logic.

I provided those number for perspective and context - added depth to the pretty good football-related discussion occurring in the thread I didn't compare the Griz running game to NDSU; learn to read.

Running the ball effectively - particularly in the playoffs - is REQUIRED to win.

You add nothing - as usual.

Wrong, any discussion which feebly attempts to say that our running game is acceptable is not a "pretty good football discussion". It is a ridiculous discussion. How many times does Hauck have to say publicly that our ground game sucks before fans get it? Yes, running the ball is essential to winning against strong teams..... which is exactly why we will not be a factor in the playoffs this season.

I am sorry that I directed my post at you. It wasn't meant to be. I just get tired of posters trying to spin "stats" to defend their angle that our running game is "not that bad". When Bobby thinks that 3rd-and-one is a passing down, that's all the proof anyone should need.

 

[PlayerRep]

NDSU Run Game:

2013 - 5.9 per run
2014 - 5.2 per run
2015 - 5.0 per run
2016 - 6.2 per run
2017 - 5.9 per run

Some perspective.

Give it a rest already! How stupid could ANYONE be to even attempt to spin it to suggest that our running game is anything close to NDSU! You try to include broken pass plays where Sneed scrambles for big yardage in our running game stats. I assure you that Bobby doesn't count those yards. Neither does NDSU. Dude, you are trying way too hard, but only embarrassing yourself with your convoluted logic.

I provided those number for perspective and context - added depth to the pretty good football-related discussion occurring in the thread I didn't compare the Griz running game to NDSU; learn to read.

Running the ball effectively - particularly in the playoffs - is REQUIRED to win.

You add nothing - as usual.

Wrong, any discussion which feebly attempts to say that our running game is acceptable is not a "pretty good football discussion". It is a ridiculous discussion. How many times does Hauck have to say publicly that our ground game sucks before fans get it? Yes, running the ball is essential to winning against strong teams..... which is exactly why we will not be a factor in the playoffs this season.

I am sorry that I directed my post at you. It wasn't meant to be. I just get tired of posters trying to spin "stats" to defend their angle that our running game is "not that bad". When Bobby thinks that 3rd-and-one is a passing down, that's all the proof anyone should need.

Who has said the UM run game is acceptable? Answer: Not one person. Not a single one. What's the point of arguing against a point that not a single person has made? You just don't like stats, but you still have never provided an accurate stat and prefer to just make up the stats you use. As well as make up half of the other stuff you post. How much longer do you think this posting name will last before getting banned?

 

[SoldierGriz]

NDSU Run Game:

2013 - 5.9 per run
2014 - 5.2 per run
2015 - 5.0 per run
2016 - 6.2 per run
2017 - 5.9 per run

Some perspective.

Give it a rest already! How stupid could ANYONE be to even attempt to spin it to suggest that our running game is anything close to NDSU! You try to include broken pass plays where Sneed scrambles for big yardage in our running game stats. I assure you that Bobby doesn't count those yards. Neither does NDSU. Dude, you are trying way too hard, but only embarrassing yourself with your convoluted logic.

I provided those number for perspective and context - added depth to the pretty good football-related discussion occurring in the thread I didn't compare the Griz running game to NDSU; learn to read.

Running the ball effectively - particularly in the playoffs - is REQUIRED to win.

You add nothing - as usual.

Wrong, any discussion which feebly attempts to say that our running game is acceptable is not a "pretty good football discussion". It is a ridiculous discussion. How many times does Hauck have to say publicly that our ground game sucks before fans get it? Yes, running the ball is essential to winning against strong teams..... which is exactly why we will not be a factor in the playoffs this season.

I am sorry that I directed my post at you. It wasn't meant to be. I just get tired of posters trying to spin "stats" to defend their angle that our running game is "not that bad". When Bobby thinks that 3rd-and-one is a passing down, that's all the proof anyone should need.

I don't think a single poster has described the current running game as "acceptable."

I am just hoping it improves...

 

[4theluvofgriz]

Give it a rest already! How stupid could ANYONE be to even attempt to spin it to suggest that our running game is anything close to NDSU! You try to include broken pass plays where Sneed scrambles for big yardage in our running game stats. I assure you that Bobby doesn't count those yards. Neither does NDSU. Dude, you are trying way too hard, but only embarrassing yourself with your convoluted logic.

I provided those number for perspective and context - added depth to the pretty good football-related discussion occurring in the thread I didn't compare the Griz running game to NDSU; learn to read.

Running the ball effectively - particularly in the playoffs - is REQUIRED to win.

You add nothing - as usual.

Wrong, any discussion which feebly attempts to say that our running game is acceptable is not a "pretty good football discussion". It is a ridiculous discussion. How many times does Hauck have to say publicly that our ground game sucks before fans get it? Yes, running the ball is essential to winning against strong teams..... which is exactly why we will not be a factor in the playoffs this season.

I am sorry that I directed my post at you. It wasn't meant to be. I just get tired of posters trying to spin "stats" to defend their angle that our running game is "not that bad". When Bobby thinks that 3rd-and-one is a passing down, that's all the proof anyone should need.

I don't think a single poster has described the current running game as "acceptable."

I am just hoping it improves...

Then you must not be reading the 85 posts from AZGrizFan showing stats to prove his narrative that our running game is actually pretty good.

 

[AZGrizFan]

I provided those number for perspective and context - added depth to the pretty good football-related discussion occurring in the thread I didn't compare the Griz running game to NDSU; learn to read.

Running the ball effectively - particularly in the playoffs - is REQUIRED to win.

You add nothing - as usual.

Wrong, any discussion which feebly attempts to say that our running game is acceptable is not a "pretty good football discussion". It is a ridiculous discussion. How many times does Hauck have to say publicly that our ground game sucks before fans get it? Yes, running the ball is essential to winning against strong teams..... which is exactly why we will not be a factor in the playoffs this season.

I am sorry that I directed my post at you. It wasn't meant to be. I just get tired of posters trying to spin "stats" to defend their angle that our running game is "not that bad". When Bobby thinks that 3rd-and-one is a passing down, that's all the proof anyone should need.

I don't think a single poster has described the current running game as "acceptable."

I am just hoping it improves...

Then you must not be reading the 85 posts from AZGrizFan showing stats to prove his narrative that our running game is actually pretty good.

You are a full blown retard with ZERO comprehension skills if THAT is what you took from my post of our running stats. Soldier posted NDSU's to show what a good running game looks like (QB included, dipshit). I posted OURS to show how far away we were from that measuring stick. You actually took that to mean i was defending our running game? Are you really that stupid (rhetorical question, don't bother answering...)

Then again, you're the one who's just CERTAIN NDSU doesn't count Stick's rushing yards in THEIR YPC calculation, so that shows everyone YOUR level of football knowledge. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[AZDoc]

OK so for me I am not a fan of the overall run game so far (duh). I look at statistics for what they are and that you can manipulate them to feed the narrative however you'd like to. I hate that our QB is our leading rusher, and hope that he isn't by year's end obviously. Then I thought a bit, and yes, running game sucks, but you have to take all the yardage for what it is. AE had a great TD run for 30whatever yards to boost his average quite a bit. There were a few decent gains, enough to respect the run a little, and Sneed can scramble to get some yards. It's still all rushing yards in the end.
Brought to mind that Barry Sanders is the all time leader in the NFL for yards lost from scrimmage. 960 yards or something close to that. He averaged 5 ypc over his career, with how many ridiculous 1 yard gains in there as well. That equals something like 6.3 ypc if you could take out those runs. That means that with every terrible run, eventually you get a big one that you're looking for (30+ yard TD on 4th and 1).
No, there is no Barry Sanders on the team, but I remember watching him during my youth and falling asleep with boredom until he broke that crazy 80 yarder, or a few 25 yard gains. At the end of the day, he had 20 carries for 100 yards, even though he had 17 carries for 26 yards for most of the game. As much as I hated it while watching, and hate it with this Griz team, I will have to learn to take the 1 yard runs over and over, hoping for the 36 yard TD run here and there. If the line improves a bit I can see that being a real possibility.
Stats are stats. RB average is crap, but that TD run was great, and a huge boost to the team at the time. Gives us something to complain about but in the end, I've decided that I'll take it as long as there are some glimmers of hope.

 

[PlayerRep]

My view is that all of the 1 or 0 yard rushes should be ignored. That means there is no hole opened by the line. When holes are opened Eastwood runs for 30 or so, or at least 2.

AZ, like I have said many times, Growler may have never gotten a stat right in his posting life. Doesn't know that NDSU rushing stats include the QB? That's pretty funny. And too lazy to check.

Of course, he also thinks Curran didn't get hurt and go to the locker room in the 2d quarter--because Curran stood right in front of him the whole game. And the 3d team qb is going to be the answer after 2/3 games. And, even tho no one has even suggested that the run game is good this year, he's on here fighting with (imaginary) posters who have said that.

 

[4theluvofgriz]

Fake news by the board buffoon

 

[4theluvofgriz]

Wrong, any discussion which feebly attempts to say that our running game is acceptable is not a "pretty good football discussion". It is a ridiculous discussion. How many times does Hauck have to say publicly that our ground game sucks before fans get it? Yes, running the ball is essential to winning against strong teams..... which is exactly why we will not be a factor in the playoffs this season.

I am sorry that I directed my post at you. It wasn't meant to be. I just get tired of posters trying to spin "stats" to defend their angle that our running game is "not that bad". When Bobby thinks that 3rd-and-one is a passing down, that's all the proof anyone should need.

I don't think a single poster has described the current running game as "acceptable."

I am just hoping it improves...

Then you must not be reading the 85 posts from AZGrizFan showing stats to prove his narrative that our running game is actually pretty good.

You are a full blown retard with ZERO comprehension skills if THAT is what you took from my post of our running stats. Soldier posted NDSU's to show what a good running game looks like (QB included, dipshit). I posted OURS to show how far away we were from that measuring stick. You actually took that to mean i was defending our running game? Are you really that stupid (rhetorical question, don't bother answering...)

Then again, you're the one who's just CERTAIN NDSU doesn't count Stick's rushing yards in THEIR YPC calculation, so that shows everyone YOUR level of football knowledge. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I coached football at a school with 2500 students. You played JV ball at 120 lbs. Don't try to show everyone how astute you are, because everyone knows you are a hack.