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"Want to know why America is losing its edge? Look around campus." By Bodnar
- Thread starter mthoopsfan
- Start date
Dillon
Well-known member
Well, I was an example of both worlds! After going to Montana for 3.5 years I dropped out and ran two businesses for a decade. I then went back and got my degree and worked for another decade in that field. Then in order to get back to Missoula I took a driving job for 2 decades and now have a good pension from the Teamsters Union. Believe it or not that job had no pressure, was outside of an office looking at the Beautiful Mountains all day, satisfying & got me to an enjoyable retirement. So there are ways to make it work either way! Do what you got to do!
GrizzlyGreat
Member
Something President Bodner didn't address is the overly woke atmosphere of universities today. That's a relative measure I understand, but it's on steroids now. There's ample evidence that the lion's share of folks not entering or leaving college campuses are primarily men. Combine that with insane tuition costs and you have a recipe for dropping enrollments. A contractor buddy in Missoula is scrambling to find seasoned plumbers, electricians, and excavation people because the old guard are retiring and there's fewer young folks choosing the trades. We need em.
I'll try to say it again in a different way: I believe the student debt crisis was caused by more people going to college in general. More kids who would not have gone to college in the 1970s have been expected to go to college in recent decades because they could. Sallie Mae started in 1972 as a Federal entity. Soon after, everyone could "afford" to go to college somehow, someway. But how? There weren't enough options. Colleges started growing in number and size to accommodate more students. By 2000, Little Timmy 2.7 GPA could find a place to accept him. Likely a for-profit toilet or EWU. But he may have had to take out loans. Now, we see the fallout.
mthoopsfan
Well-known member
"The highest-paying college majors, 4 years after graduation—many pay over $100K
Half of the top 10 majors with graduates making the most money are subsets of engineering, according to new research."
Read in CNBC: https://apple.news/AsxRvbVJmQdK2aWs16wcUmA
"These are the highest-paying college majors, 4 years after graduation—many pay over $100,000"
"College majors that pay the most four years after graduation
Top 10 majors ranked by median salary
Nuclear engineering $131,454.00
Biomathematics, Bioinformatics, Computational Biology $116,918.00
Operations Research $112,097.00
Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering $109,121.00
Computer Science $104,799.00
Marine Transportation $103,626.00
Computer Engineering $99,063.00
Veterinary Medicine $97,533.00
Petroleum Engineering $96,957.00
Systems Engineering $95,224.0"
Half of the top 10 majors with graduates making the most money are subsets of engineering, according to new research."
Read in CNBC: https://apple.news/AsxRvbVJmQdK2aWs16wcUmA
"These are the highest-paying college majors, 4 years after graduation—many pay over $100,000"
"College majors that pay the most four years after graduation
Top 10 majors ranked by median salary
Nuclear engineering $131,454.00
Biomathematics, Bioinformatics, Computational Biology $116,918.00
Operations Research $112,097.00
Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering $109,121.00
Computer Science $104,799.00
Marine Transportation $103,626.00
Computer Engineering $99,063.00
Veterinary Medicine $97,533.00
Petroleum Engineering $96,957.00
Systems Engineering $95,224.0"
mthoopsfan
Well-known member
"But going to a prestigious college or university appears to pay off. The five colleges with the highest-paid former students all have median incomes above $100,000 [after 5 years].
mthoopsfan
Well-known member
Top law firms pay a lot and provide huge bonuses in most years (like up to a few hundred thousand), but make its lawyers work very hard (and long hours). Davis Polk is where my daughter and I worked out of law school. The pay is almost as good as for electricians and plumbers.
"Davis Polk wasn’t the only law firm matching Cravath, according to Above the Law’s “Salary Wars Scorecard.” As of March 7, 2022, at last 26 large and boutique law firms had matched Cravath, including Davis Polk.
Here is Cravath’s salary scale:
• Class of 2021: $215,000
• Class of 2020: $225,000
• Class of 2019: $250,000
• Class of 2018: $295,000
• Class of 2017: $345,000
• Class of 2016: $370,000
• Class of 2015: $400,000
• Class of 2014: $415,000"
[This doesn't include annual or special bonuses, which have been huge in recent years.]
"Davis Polk wasn’t the only law firm matching Cravath, according to Above the Law’s “Salary Wars Scorecard.” As of March 7, 2022, at last 26 large and boutique law firms had matched Cravath, including Davis Polk.
Here is Cravath’s salary scale:
• Class of 2021: $215,000
• Class of 2020: $225,000
• Class of 2019: $250,000
• Class of 2018: $295,000
• Class of 2017: $345,000
• Class of 2016: $370,000
• Class of 2015: $400,000
• Class of 2014: $415,000"
[This doesn't include annual or special bonuses, which have been huge in recent years.]
mthoopsfan
Well-known member
My doctor friend thinks the top orthopedic surgeons in MT make between $1.5 and $2.0 million. That may not include what they make as owners of surgery centers and places that provide ancillary services. I bet they are glad they went to college.
I am a big believer in education. Not necessarily college for all, but college for the majority. One must be careful in taking out loans. My impression is that too many people took out too much in loans, without analyzing the return and they would pay them back.
The competitive edges that the US has had, require large numbers of people going to college and working very hard. If the US lets other countries get ahead, or ahead more, in advanced education, eventually the US will lose its competitive edges and our high standard of living will slip.
My lawyer daughter billed about 3,000 hours a couple years ago. Not worked, but billed. Thus, she worked more.
I am a big believer in education. Not necessarily college for all, but college for the majority. One must be careful in taking out loans. My impression is that too many people took out too much in loans, without analyzing the return and they would pay them back.
The competitive edges that the US has had, require large numbers of people going to college and working very hard. If the US lets other countries get ahead, or ahead more, in advanced education, eventually the US will lose its competitive edges and our high standard of living will slip.
My lawyer daughter billed about 3,000 hours a couple years ago. Not worked, but billed. Thus, she worked more.
Yes, Hoops, but those kids were always going to go to college, whether it was in 1980 or 2020. The debt issue being discussed is about the kids on the margin who may not have gone to college 40 years ago, but went anyway because they were pushed into it. A terminal degree in art history from Central Arkansas State isn’t exactly a great investment.
Also, fcuk Cravath. Those nerds, haha.
Also, fcuk Cravath. Those nerds, haha.
mthoopsfan
Well-known member
CDAGRIZ said:
Yes, I understand, but the discussion Bodnar and I am having is not that one. I've never been around anyone who was pushed to go to college but shouldn't have gone, so I don't know that area firsthand. I never played that game.
Anthony Johnstone, the UM law professor recently elevated to be a 9th Circuit judge, worked at Cravath for several years.
tgreseth said:
Most of the figures I see about costs of college seem to focus on the actual tuition and books costs but not the daily living, like rent, food, clothing, booze and drugs...College itself is a good deal, for the most part, but when mom and dad aren't paying for it, things get dicey and you resort to military as a fall back plan b. My brother paid his own way then ROTC picked up his tab and he became a war hero but his kids went to good schools and did it their way. College is a bargain. It is not a free ticket to prosperity. some of us got lucky and took advantage of our breaks, others prefer to whine.
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/student-loans/college-tuition-inflation/#:~:text=Cost%20Of%20College%20Over%20Time%3A%20The%20Past%2040%20Years,total%20price%20increased%20to%20%2428%2C775.
In 1980, the price to attend a four-year college full-time was $10,231 annually—including tuition, fees, room and board, and adjusted for inflation—according to the National Center for Education Statistics. By 2019-20, the total price increased to $28,775. That’s a 180% increase.
In 1980, the price to attend a four-year college full-time was $10,231 annually—including tuition, fees, room and board, and adjusted for inflation—according to the National Center for Education Statistics. By 2019-20, the total price increased to $28,775. That’s a 180% increase.
GrizLA said:
Daily living costs have also increased. My point, elusive as it may be, is that the Montana University System previously received the lion's share of its support from the state's general fund ~76% in 1992. That figure today is ~44%. Tuition has covered the difference. Does that shift in funding support increase or decrease accessibility for the typical Montana high school graduate? I'm not sure if college was ever a "bargain" but its an expensive proposition for many of today's young people...
