Faculty ask for reconsideration of Hauck hire

[RobGriz]

A lot of names on this list with gender identity issues. Just sayin'.

Edit: Should also point out many of those names enjoyed the game from R. Engstrom's box. And I quote "I don't know a first down from a (insert big animal here) down, but the booze was great!!!"

“Gender identity issues”? Please connect this bigoted remark.


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Are you offended? Offended adults are my happy place.

 

[cmtgrizzly]

How many faculty positions would have to be cut to pay the ~$600,000 payout on Bobby Hauck’s already executed contract?

Excellent point!

Exactly. I think all reasonable people understand that for multiple reasons Bobby is the coach and will be the coach. Objectively for financial reasons, if nothing else, his contract will not be rescinded. It would cost too much and overall he brings back interest to the football team and probably our best chance to win. Winning football likely increases enrollment and probably saves some faculty positions. I still think regardless of whether enrollment improves or not Bodnar and the state will need to consider a significant overhaul of undergraduate offerings at UM to attract current and future generations of students who want to pay for a degree that eventually will be able to pay for itself.

 

[grizpsych]

For any of those on the board that are currently professors at the U of M, have you ever been given a student to faculty ratio from the university to "break even" with your salary? Or your dept? In other words how many students have to be chemistry majors to pay for the chemistry faculty? I am sure there are many factors involved in keeping a dept solvent (research grants etc) but alot of those are probably more controlled variables and I am sure an analysis could be done for each professor and/or dept to see how many students need to be dedicated to a dept in order for it to pay for itself. I am not picking on chemsitry as I graduated from that dept and hope it is in no jeopardy. I think there are going to be some hard decisions that need to be made based on objective measures that will attract students and make U of M viable for the future and like it or not there are more professors and dept that are going to and should see cuts. New degrees that are more competitive in todays market will need to be added. We can only afford so many professors and fields of study. The one thing that could save some of these professors/dept is a drastic uptick in enrollment. They can fight it all they want, but at least anecdotally, a successful football team has been shown to increase enrollment. In the end Bobby Hauck may be able to save professors jobs and some students' field of study at the U of M despite the fact they could be actively striving to end his.

Although I'm not at UM, SEMO's tuition and student body are similar enough for an estimate. We have to have 15 students in a course section for the class to be offered during a traditional semester and 12 to be paid in full during winter/summer sessions.

Great info! So not too many for a course to be covered. For those professors who dont have much research $ coming in I would guess they have to teach quite a few courses or have really large classes to cover their salary. Thanks!

I'm pretty sure that UM is a 3:3 course load for tenure/tenure track professors. And, all grant money goes directly to the University. If UM is like other tier 1 schools, the school immediately pockets between 45% and 55% of grant money and uses it to keep undergraduate tuition lower.

Edit: Also, Salary is lower at UM than at SEMO. So, I would guess UM's break even cost is lower too.

 

[AZDoc]

How many faculty positions would have to be cut to pay the ~$600,000 payout on Bobby Hauck’s already executed contract?

Excellent point!

Exactly. I think all reasonable people understand that for multiple reasons Bobby is the coach and will be the coach. Objectively for financial reasons, if nothing else, his contract will not be rescinded. It would cost too much and overall he brings back interest to the football team and probably our best chance to win. Winning football likely increases enrollment and probably saves some faculty positions. I still think regardless of whether enrollment improves or not Bodnar and the state will need to consider a significant overhaul of undergraduate offerings at UM to attract current and future generations of students who want to pay for a degree that eventually will be able to pay for itself.

Exactly right. I’m planning on emailing the new president when he takes office with my ideas :thumb:

 

[cmtgrizzly]

How many faculty positions would have to be cut to pay the ~$600,000 payout on Bobby Hauck’s already executed contract?

Excellent point!

Exactly. I think all reasonable people understand that for multiple reasons Bobby is the coach and will be the coach. Objectively for financial reasons, if nothing else, his contract will not be rescinded. It would cost too much and overall he brings back interest to the football team and probably our best chance to win. Winning football likely increases enrollment and probably saves some faculty positions. I still think regardless of whether enrollment improves or not Bodnar and the state will need to consider a significant overhaul of undergraduate offerings at UM to attract current and future generations of students who want to pay for a degree that eventually will be able to pay for itself.

Exactly right. I’m planning on emailing the new president when he takes office with my ideas :thumb:

Please do. Bodnar may be just the right hire at just the right time. Hauck might be too!

 

[ronangrizfan]

It's just the facts ma'am. Stop spinning.

A lot of names on this list with gender identity issues. Just sayin'.

Edit: Should also point out many of those names enjoyed the game from R. Engstrom's box. And I quote "I don't know a first down from a (insert big animal here) down, but the booze was great!!!"

“Gender identity issues”? Please connect this bigoted remark.


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[GGNez]

A lot of names on this list with gender identity issues. Just sayin'.

Edit: Should also point out many of those names enjoyed the game from R. Engstrom's box. And I quote "I don't know a first down from a (insert big animal here) down, but the booze was great!!!"

“Gender identity issues”? Please connect this bigoted remark.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

+1

 

[bearister]

A lot of names on this list with gender identity issues. Just sayin'.

Edit: Should also point out many of those names enjoyed the game from R. Engstrom's box. And I quote "I don't know a first down from a (insert big animal here) down, but the booze was great!!!"

“Gender identity issues”? Please connect this bigoted remark.


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Are you offended? Offended adults are my happy place.

Not offended, as I am not trans. Amused at the lack of individual candle-power displayed.


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[RobGriz]

A lot of names on this list with gender identity issues. Just sayin'.

Edit: Should also point out many of those names enjoyed the game from R. Engstrom's box. And I quote "I don't know a first down from a (insert big animal here) down, but the booze was great!!!"

“Gender identity issues”? Please connect this bigoted remark.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are you offended? Offended adults are my happy place.

Not offended, as I am not trans. Amused at the lack of individual candle-power displayed.


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Yeah...you’re offended

 

[grizbrokebacker1]

Have I mentioned how much I love this hiring is still a distraction? I'm glad to see there are some people who support Hauck that have morals, however. Never been able to figure out why someone's opinion is immediately labeled as politically or even "gender identity" motivated. I have no doubt you'd find equal #'s of dems/repubs, straight/gay, male/female, etc. on either side of the discussion. But, carry on, because this is so much fun to watch!

 

[argh!]

I'm pretty sure that UM is a 3:3 course load for tenure/tenure track professors. And, all grant money goes directly to the University. If UM is like other tier 1 schools, the school immediately pockets between 45% and 55% of grant money and uses it to keep undergraduate tuition lower.

Edit: Also, Salary is lower at UM than at SEMO. So, I would guess UM's break even cost is lower too.

that isn't correct about grants, at least not federal, private, or any other kind that i've come across in the last 25 years or so in academia.

 

[IdaGriz01]

I'm pretty sure that UM is a 3:3 course load for tenure/tenure track professors. And, all grant money goes directly to the University. If UM is like other tier 1 schools, the school immediately pockets between 45% and 55% of grant money and uses it to keep undergraduate tuition lower.

Edit: Also, Salary is lower at UM than at SEMO. So, I would guess UM's break even cost is lower too.

that isn't correct about grants, at least not federal, private, or any other kind that i've come across in the last 25 years or so in academia.

Actually, it probably is ... I assume he's talking about the assignment of so-called "indirect costs." Here's a survey made by the journal Nature of indirect costs applied by various institutions to grants from NIH:
http://www.nature.com/news/indirect-costs-keeping-the-lights-on-1.16376
Just a few examples (from 2013):
Boston University: 63.7%, negotiated indirect cost
University of Texas-Austin: 54%
University of Florida: 49%
South Dakota State: 45%
University of Wyoming: 42.5%
Georgetown University: 55%
Yale University: 66%

The writer does concede that -- through some accounting gimmicks -- the actual rate shown on the books is sometimes smaller than these numbers.

 

[cmtgrizzly]

I'm pretty sure that UM is a 3:3 course load for tenure/tenure track professors. And, all grant money goes directly to the University. If UM is like other tier 1 schools, the school immediately pockets between 45% and 55% of grant money and uses it to keep undergraduate tuition lower.

Edit: Also, Salary is lower at UM than at SEMO. So, I would guess UM's break even cost is lower too.

that isn't correct about grants, at least not federal, private, or any other kind that i've come across in the last 25 years or so in academia.

Actually, it probably is ... I assume he's talking about the assignment of so-called "indirect costs." Here's a survey made by the journal Nature of indirect costs applied by various institutions to grants from NIH:
http://www.nature.com/news/indirect-costs-keeping-the-lights-on-1.16376
Just a few examples (from 2013):
Boston University: 63.7%, negotiated indirect cost
University of Texas-Austin: 54%
University of Florida: 49%
South Dakota State: 45%
University of Wyoming: 42.5%
Georgetown University: 55%
Yale University: 66%

The writer does concede that -- through some accounting gimmicks -- the actual rate shown on the books is sometimes smaller than these numbers.

Well in any case I appreciate the feedback from all of you. It is interesting to have an idea of the data available. I would suppose that Bodnar and the state could and would use data like this to make objective decisions about which programs can be sustained and which can not as well as use numbers like these from other universities to evaluate prospective programs to bring on campus. Would also need data in job placement and income data for the jobs that can be obtained from those prospective programs.

I do not know what will be done but I do think that at our current enrollment there has to be changes to attract students. Unfortunately there is a possibility that some traditional programs would be on the cutting block. If so some painful decisions may have to made for the sake of the health of the university system in Montana.

 

[TCCGRIZ]

:lol:

A lot of names on this list with gender identity issues. Just sayin'.

Edit: Should also point out many of those names enjoyed the game from R. Engstrom's box. And I quote "I don't know a first down from a (insert big animal here) down, but the booze was great!!!"

“Gender identity issues”? Please connect this bigoted remark.


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Are you offended? Offended adults are my happy place.

:lol: mine too! :thumb:

 

[TCCGRIZ]

A lot of names on this list with gender identity issues. Just sayin'.

Edit: Should also point out many of those names enjoyed the game from R. Engstrom's box. And I quote "I don't know a first down from a (insert big animal here) down, but the booze was great!!!"

“Gender identity issues”? Please connect this bigoted remark.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are you offended? Offended adults are my happy place.

Not offended, as I am not trans. Amused at the lack of individual candle-power displayed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Please explain to everyone how this statement is bigoted ! God forbid if we call someone by the wrong gender . I mean what do we call someone who is let's say for example , a middle aged white guy but identifies has a Filipino woman. Now the conundrum ,if we see a middle-aged white guy and call him "sir" but he identifies as a Filipino woman . Does that mean we are bigots ?? Maybe ,just maybe this middle-aged white guy that identifies as a Filipino woman should write on his forehead " I'm look like a middle-aged white guy but identify has a Filipino woman" so do not call me "sir" or I will be offended .
Yes now it's starting to make sense to me now .
I'm so glad you called all of us bigots out so we could clear all this up . You the man , oops or a Filipino woman or I don't know now I'm confused again

 

[bearister]

“Gender identity issues”? Please connect this bigoted remark.


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Are you offended? Offended adults are my happy place.

Not offended, as I am not trans. Amused at the lack of individual candle-power displayed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Please explain to everyone how this statement is bigoted ! God forbid if we call someone by the wrong gender . I mean what do we call someone who is let's say for example , a middle aged white guy but identifies has a Filipino woman. Now the conundrum ,if we see a middle-aged white guy and call him "sir" but he identifies as a Filipino woman . Does that mean we are bigots ?? Maybe ,just maybe this middle-aged white guy that identifies as a Filipino woman should write on his forehead " I'm look like a middle-aged white guy but identify has a Filipino woman" so do not call me "sir" or I will be offended .
Yes now it's starting to make sense to me now .
I'm so glad you called all of us bigots out so we could clear all this up . You the man , oops or a Filipino woman or I don't know now I'm confused again

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[bearister]

“Gender identity issues”? Please connect this bigoted remark.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are you offended? Offended adults are my happy place.

Not offended, as I am not trans. Amused at the lack of individual candle-power displayed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Please explain to everyone how this statement is bigoted ! God forbid if we call someone by the wrong gender . I mean what do we call someone who is let's say for example , a middle aged white guy but identifies has a Filipino woman. Now the conundrum ,if we see a middle-aged white guy and call him "sir" but he identifies as a Filipino woman . Does that mean we are bigots ?? Maybe ,just maybe this middle-aged white guy that identifies as a Filipino woman should write on his forehead " I'm look like a middle-aged white guy but identify has a Filipino woman" so do not call me "sir" or I will be offended .
Yes now it's starting to make sense to me now .
I'm so glad you called all of us bigots out so we could clear all this up . You the man , oops or a Filipino woman or I don't know now I'm confused again

It's bigoted because it's a gratuitous remark about a minority group, apparently offered for no reason other than poking fun at the faculty members on the list. I simply asked the guy to clear up for me what "gender identity" has to do with the rest of his comment. He ducked that question and attacked me instead. As I've pointed out before on this board, personal attacks are the weakest form of argumentation. But, if you can't figure this out, there's probably no point in explaining it to you.


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[argh!]

I'm pretty sure that UM is a 3:3 course load for tenure/tenure track professors. And, all grant money goes directly to the University. If UM is like other tier 1 schools, the school immediately pockets between 45% and 55% of grant money and uses it to keep undergraduate tuition lower.

Edit: Also, Salary is lower at UM than at SEMO. So, I would guess UM's break even cost is lower too.

that isn't correct about grants, at least not federal, private, or any other kind that i've come across in the last 25 years or so in academia.

Actually, it probably is ... I assume he's talking about the assignment of so-called "indirect costs." Here's a survey made by the journal Nature of indirect costs applied by various institutions to grants from NIH:
http://www.nature.com/news/indirect-costs-keeping-the-lights-on-1.16376
Just a few examples (from 2013):
Boston University: 63.7%, negotiated indirect cost
University of Texas-Austin: 54%
University of Florida: 49%
South Dakota State: 45%
University of Wyoming: 42.5%
Georgetown University: 55%
Yale University: 66%

The writer does concede that -- through some accounting gimmicks -- the actual rate shown on the books is sometimes smaller than these numbers.

i know all about idc's, as i've generated a lot. they are considered 'extra' money, not part of the grant. i.e. if you get a $500K grant and your institution receives idc's at a 50% of everything rate, the amount received by the institution is $750K, with the grantee getting the $500. also, a couple things about idc's: 1) they are supposed to be used for infrastructure to support the research, although that only happens to a certain extent, 2) they usually fund an office of research and a grants management office 3) some places kick back a good % to the grant p.i. to use for discretionary spending 4) etc etc but to cut to the chase they don't get used to keep tuition low, which was the bigger point i was responding to in my post (although i thought other aspects of what was said were perhaps misleading).

 

[grizcountry420]

Are you offended? Offended adults are my happy place.

Not offended, as I am not trans. Amused at the lack of individual candle-power displayed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Please explain to everyone how this statement is bigoted ! God forbid if we call someone by the wrong gender . I mean what do we call someone who is let's say for example , a middle aged white guy but identifies has a Filipino woman. Now the conundrum ,if we see a middle-aged white guy and call him "sir" but he identifies as a Filipino woman . Does that mean we are bigots ?? Maybe ,just maybe this middle-aged white guy that identifies as a Filipino woman should write on his forehead " I'm look like a middle-aged white guy but identify has a Filipino woman" so do not call me "sir" or I will be offended .
Yes now it's starting to make sense to me now .
I'm so glad you called all of us bigots out so we could clear all this up . You the man , oops or a Filipino woman or I don't know now I'm confused again

It's bigoted because it's a gratuitous remark about a minority group, apparently offered for no reason other than poking fun at the faculty members on the list. I simply asked the guy to clear up for me what "gender identity" has to do with the rest of his comment. He ducked that question and attacked me instead. As I've pointed out before on this board, personal attacks are the weakest form of argumentation. But, if you can't figure this out, there's probably no point in explaining it to you.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[RobGriz]

Are you offended? Offended adults are my happy place.

Not offended, as I am not trans. Amused at the lack of individual candle-power displayed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Please explain to everyone how this statement is bigoted ! God forbid if we call someone by the wrong gender . I mean what do we call someone who is let's say for example , a middle aged white guy but identifies has a Filipino woman. Now the conundrum ,if we see a middle-aged white guy and call him "sir" but he identifies as a Filipino woman . Does that mean we are bigots ?? Maybe ,just maybe this middle-aged white guy that identifies as a Filipino woman should write on his forehead " I'm look like a middle-aged white guy but identify has a Filipino woman" so do not call me "sir" or I will be offended .
Yes now it's starting to make sense to me now .
I'm so glad you called all of us bigots out so we could clear all this up . You the man , oops or a Filipino woman or I don't know now I'm confused again

It's bigoted because it's a gratuitous remark about a minority group, apparently offered for no reason other than poking fun at the faculty members on the list. I simply asked the guy to clear up for me what "gender identity" has to do with the rest of his comment. He ducked that question and attacked me instead. As I've pointed out before on this board, personal attacks are the weakest form of argumentation. But, if you can't figure this out, there's probably no point in explaining it to you.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

1) I didn’t make the remark
2) I didn’t “personally attack” you...unless you find being asked if you are offended, offensive