Griz Rumor: to 1-A

[Grizbacker1]

Re/Max,

You will buy out Lambros Real Estate for cash before the Griz go D1. and that is not a shot at you my man!

 

[WA Griz]

This topic always becomes so lopsided.
Honestly, I'd watch the Griz play Central Washington twice a season if that's all there was to watch. But I don't think there's been a game on our schedule in the last 10 years that would give me goosebumps like playing a Boise State team that was ranked in the nation's top 20 -- provided we had an equal number of scholarships. And I think the first time UM beat Wisconsin like Fresno did a couple years ago, I'd probably stop pining for a renewal of our rivalry with Eastern Washington.
And I don't know how many times I've driven to ISU, Cheney, PSU or Weber and wondered if the 3 1/2 game was possibly going to justify the going to those hell holes. I have to admit, Griz weekend in Hawaii was a lot more fun and well worth doing every other year. Not to mention you can actually get decent air fare to most WAC locations.
IAA is fine, but there should be a list of requirements for staying, too. And one of the Items on that list should be a willingness to be second fiddle every couple years while the Eagles and Bobcats and Mustangs of the world get their chance. We will not be top dog every year if we opt to stay where we are. The odds are against it.

 

[BroncoBob]

Dumb, dumb, dumber. If ever the Griz move to I-A, I'm moving to Cheney. Just remember Idaho; were not they a perennial regional I-aa power just a decade ago and now look at 'em? If you want to look in the mirror and see Idaho, just keep this dumb talk up. :lame:

Tom

I think Montana is more like Boise State than Idaho. Boise State has fans and facilities. Montana has fans and facilities!

No pressure....
I just miss the rivalry with the Grizz. Lot of Grizz fans live in Boise and wear their colors on Saturdays during football season.

Heck, we even have a Griz Grad moderator on our BroncoCountry.com board. :beer2:

 

[Sac Attack]

I'd like to see Montana add baseball, you have a minor league facility already in place.

 

[OrgonGriz]

The UM fan base is evenly split 50/50 over I-AA/I-A? Where did that get pulled from?

GrizFan10
the 50 50 split was based off reading previous posts on this topic. Not right out of my ars. Read through this entire topic. Looks to me that there is close to a 50 50 split I would say and about the same on many other posts on this topic. So sorry it is not exact calculation, figure, percentage. Are you an accountant or something... Sheeees man :thumb:

 

[NavyBlue]

I think Re/Max has a pretty good idea of what would need to happen for the Griz to make a succesfull move to 1-A football. I think most would agree that the WAC would be a tremendous boost for other Griz sports, Griz baskeball and the Lady Griz would benefit enormously by a move to the WAC.

I thought the deficit was already paid off, at least I thought I remembered reading that. One thing though Re/Max it is not the Athletic Director that decides if a university moves up a level or changes conference membership. It is the president of the university and whomever he answers to like the Board of Regents. I do think however that if UM was planning a move to 1-A O'Day probably would not have been chosen over candidates with experience moving programs from the 1-AA level to the 1-A level.

I think the other things brought up such as lights on the stadium and multi-year contracts would be important, and I think they are also being addressed anyway. There is no current 30,000 seat requirement at this time, but for the long term a team realisticaly should have a 30,000 seat stadium as a goal, for 1-A football.

An analysis was done on the WAC message board about 6 months ago of the sports the Griz could add to be 1-A compliant, and the costs were fairly minimal. If memory serves, it was proposed that UM could add golf and women's softball (I think those were the sports but I am not sure anymore).

The WAC has some really good football coaches now (Erickson, Pat Hill, June Jones, Dick Tomey) and I think in a few years will be playing some pretty good football and already plays good basketball. With multiple NCAA Tournament bids and bowl revenue distribution, and tv money the WAC will be distributing more revenue to its members than the Griz will ever get in the Big Sky. And that is the reason why I think the Griz will eventually join the WAC. Probably not for another 5 to 7 years though. Just my .02.

 

[GrizGuy]

Just two things... First, yeah the offseason is for sort of wild threads, but this board has beaten this topic to death. I grow weary of how split and negative the chat becomes and that's why I said on page one or two that it should die..

As for all that "exciting," "superior," and "great" competition: Sorry, but I can't muster that much excitement for the WAC, LaTech, Idaho, Utah State and NMex State. I'm sure it would be neat to see the Griz create new rivalries on a "higher" level, but I'm not sure that beyond Boise State and Fresno State that the WAC has a level of play THAT much better than what we see now.

But the big thing for me remains the playoffs. I despise the BCS rankings to the point that I haven't watched a "championship" game since Ohio played Miami and I only watched that one because I put down money that Ohio would win against a loud-mouthed Florida redneck who lived in my condo complex. Plus I lived in Arid-zona at the time and the game was played in Phoenix. That guy never did pay me.

Anyway, if the Powers That Be really do institute a BCS and a PCS (Playoff Championship Series), then you can count me in. Not until.

But like Re/Max says, there is a mountain of stuff to be done before a move like that can happen. And there is NO, NONE, ZERO, NADA, ZILCH evidence that it's going to happen, or that there are even moves taking place that could EVENTUALLY allow it to happen... So, for the love of my eyeballs, can we please move on to talking about something that MATTERS....

For example, what will the starting O look like next year, or the starting D, and how does it stack up against, oh, say.. MSU? Seems like MSU has a great new QB.. Great new recruits.. Somebody? Anybody?

 

[MaroonReign]

I'd like to see Montana add baseball, you have a minor league facility already in place.

I'd love Baseball as well.... only problem is college baseball started a few weeks ago, and we just got an inch a snow that will be around a couple of days!

 

[smarsh]

Are people really going to bail on the Griz if they have A 5-6 season or something like that

yes.




remax- good analysis, and on the money. one thing that i would add, however, is the fact that the griz could not sell 30,000 tickets to a griz game. cat/griz may come close, maybe a playoff game as well, but i doubt it. if the overall price of the gameday experience was lowered, we might be able to pull it off, but as it is now and (if the "inflation" rates of the game day costs of the recent past are any indication) it will be in the future, there aren't 30,000 folks in montana who are going to shell out that dough. i think 26,000 is more realistic. now, everyone, PLEEEEEEAAAASSEEEE don't start making comparisons to our game day prices vs. the other teams around the country and tell me what a good deal we're getting. yes, it is worth the price to me.

i'm saying that given montanan's income level, and gas prices, you won't get 30,000 in WGS. closer to 26,000 max.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

If we moved to the WAC tomorrow....

Average attendance.
Hawaii-------------40,791
Fresno-------------38,603
Boise---------------28,098
UM---------------23,000
Nevada------------22,258
Lou Tech.----------20,778
NMSU---------------16,069
San Jose-----------15,080
USU-----------------14,921
Idaho---------------12,064


Athletic Budget

Hawaii-------------$16.2 M
Fresno-------------$15.8 M
Boise---------------$13.4 M
UM---------------$10.7 M
San Jose-----------$10.1 M
Nevada------------$10 M
NMSU---------------$9.4 M
USU-----------------$9.0 M
Idaho---------------$8.4 M
Lou. Tech----------$7.4 M

 

[Grizbacker1]

As for that supposed 50-50 on Griz fans wanting to move up to D1, I doubt the numbers would even be 80-20 in favor of it if you polled 23,00 at WaGriz. The people on Egriz are not your typical Griz fan. There are probably a good 5000 or so that come because it is cool to say you went to the Griz game, they disappear as soon as the won-loss record goes south, which it certainly will in any D1 scenario.

Even if 50% were in favor of a move to D1, not one person has ever told me how you are going to get around moving UM up and leaving msu where they are. It flat is NOT going to happen!!! The political football is too hot for any University President or Regent to even begin to consider. In Japan they refer to it as hari-kari.

It makes for good banter on the message boards, and that is about all the legs this thing will ever grow.

 

[Grizindahouse]

I just laugh because every arguement against the Griz moving to a fully 1-A conference is "1-AA has a playoff and championship.". But does anyone ever consider what a move to say the WAC could do for the other sports within the athletic department? Would a 20 win team in either both men's or women's basketball have a better chance to get an at-large birth in the NCAA tourney? Would the increased opportunities for more conference teams getting in the tournament lead to increased revenue? Is the University on par with other WAC schools in terms of budget? Are you telling me that Griz fans would not celebrate a trip to a bowl game, wheter Boise, or Vegas, or a California location? I agree that a playoff and championship for football is a great thing, but I believe that the other benefits to the athletic program with a move to a fully
1-A conference outweigh the football playoff.

 

[Grizbacker1]

I just laugh because every arguement against the Griz moving to a fully 1-A conference is "1-AA has a playoff and championship.". But does anyone ever consider what a move to say the WAC could do for the other sports within the athletic department? Would a 20 win team in either both men's or women's basketball have a better chance to get an at-large birth in the NCAA tourney? Would the increased opportunities for more conference teams getting in the tournament lead to increased revenue? Is the University on par with other WAC schools in terms of budget? Are you telling me that Griz fans would not celebrate a trip to a bowl game, wheter Boise, or Vegas, or a California location? I agree that a playoff and championship for football is a great thing, but I believe that the other benefits to the athletic program with a move to a fully
1-A conference outweigh the football playoff.

Ok, I will play along, again. Please tell me where the money comes from when the Griz have to add additonal NON REVENUE Women's sports to be Title IX compliant? Do you really think attendance is going to stay at the level it is now when the Griz go 5-5, and it will happen. How do you replace the lost $$$?

Finally, how are the Griz going to D1 without msu doing the same? Believe me, it isn't going to happen without both. Do you really think msu can support a move financially?

 

[BWahlberg]

Thanks guys, that was basically something I just kind of built on as I typed.

I also wonder if we could get 30,000 in the stadium, it would be a stretch. A few ways it could be done would not be cost effective, but they could work.

- Expand the student section, let them in for free again. Also consider a high school student section/area, work out a deal with the state where so many kids with high school IDs could get in for free or a reduced rate and have a large section as well.

- Make sure you have a 1,000 - 2,000 seat section that would be "general admission"

Could help, I think Wa Griz could pack 30,000 in on a regular basis but a lot of people are held back by the cost to attend. Getting college and highschool students in at a very low cost, and having a lower cost general admission section could help overcome those barriers. Getting students in for free and having the General Admission seats has helped, in part, boost the attendance at the Bball games.

 

[grizfnz]

What's this you hear about taking out the bench seating? Don't tell me they are pulling some kind of basketball fiasco type screw job on the students? Or am I missing something....which is a likely scenario for me.

The students jump up and down and pull on the aluminum benches in their section. We walked around the stadium the night before the EWU game and you could see the majority of the rows had been badly damaged (twisted and bent). Pulling the aluminum benches and making the students sit on concrete (if it happens) would seem to be a cost savings measure, similar to having the collapsible goal posts that don't need to be replaced every time we make it to the chipper. I'm sure the U would site safety concerns as well.

 

[Grizbacker1]

Re/Max,

With all due respect, Students are not getting in free now. 30,000 fans on a regular basis? I guess you are assuming the Griz are going to continue their winning conference championships and instead of playoffs we get a bowl game huh?

How many MT kids do you really think can play D1 at a level to win championships which is precisely what you better be doing if you expect 30,000 fans for each game.

This sounds like a broken record I know but no one has answered it yet. What about msu? Do you honestly think they are going to stay D1AA while UM moves up???

 

[Grizindahouse]

I just laugh because every arguement against the Griz moving to a fully 1-A conference is "1-AA has a playoff and championship.". But does anyone ever consider what a move to say the WAC could do for the other sports within the athletic department? Would a 20 win team in either both men's or women's basketball have a better chance to get an at-large birth in the NCAA tourney? Would the increased opportunities for more conference teams getting in the tournament lead to increased revenue? Is the University on par with other WAC schools in terms of budget? Are you telling me that Griz fans would not celebrate a trip to a bowl game, wheter Boise, or Vegas, or a California location? I agree that a playoff and championship for football is a great thing, but I believe that the other benefits to the athletic program with a move to a fully
1-A conference outweigh the football playoff.

Ok, I will play along, again. Please tell me where the money comes from when the Griz have to add additonal NON REVENUE Women's sports to be Title IX compliant? Do you really think attendance is going to stay at the level it is now when the Griz go 5-5, and it will happen. How do you replace the lost $$$?

Finally, how are the Griz going to D1 without msu doing the same? Believe me, it isn't going to happen without both. Do you really think msu can support a move financially?

GB1, in your honest opinion, do you think that the football program at UM would not be able to compete at the WAC level? Their are chances of 5-5 seasons, but I feel the program would not be that far from competing with the WAC schools. Also, I still believe that fans will watch a competitive Griz team play teams like Boise, Nevada, Fresno, Hawaii, etc. even if the team does not go 9-2 every year. As for the money to finance nonrevenue sports, with the growth of the program within the WAC, there would be increased revenue from conference affliation (NCAA and bowls) shared between the members, and increased payouts for non-conference football games (ex. UM would most likely be in line for higher payouts vs the Oregon's and Iowa's of the world). As for the Bobcats, who cares! If a sound plan can be drawn up and presented to the decision makers, do you really think there are enough people to keep it from happening.

 

[evergriz]

The high school student thing won't work. NCAA compliance issue (recruiting).

 

[Grizbacker1]

I just laugh because every arguement against the Griz moving to a fully 1-A conference is "1-AA has a playoff and championship.". But does anyone ever consider what a move to say the WAC could do for the other sports within the athletic department? Would a 20 win team in either both men's or women's basketball have a better chance to get an at-large birth in the NCAA tourney? Would the increased opportunities for more conference teams getting in the tournament lead to increased revenue? Is the University on par with other WAC schools in terms of budget? Are you telling me that Griz fans would not celebrate a trip to a bowl game, wheter Boise, or Vegas, or a California location? I agree that a playoff and championship for football is a great thing, but I believe that the other benefits to the athletic program with a move to a fully
1-A conference outweigh the football playoff.

Ok, I will play along, again. Please tell me where the money comes from when the Griz have to add additonal NON REVENUE Women's sports to be Title IX compliant? Do you really think attendance is going to stay at the level it is now when the Griz go 5-5, and it will happen. How do you replace the lost $$$?

Finally, how are the Griz going to D1 without msu doing the same? Believe me, it isn't going to happen without both. Do you really think msu can support a move financially?

GB1, in your honest opinion, do you think that the football program at UM would not be able to compete at the WAC level? Their are chances of 5-5 seasons, but I feel the program would not be that far from competing with the WAC schools. Also, I still believe that fans will watch a competitive Griz team play teams like Boise, Nevada, Fresno, Hawaii, etc. even if the team does not go 9-2 every year. As for the money to finance nonrevenue sports, with the growth of the program within the WAC, there would be increased revenue from conference affliation (NCAA and bowls) shared between the members, and increased payouts for non-conference football games (ex. UM would most likely be in line for higher payouts vs the Oregon's and Iowa's of the world). As for the Bobcats, who cares! If a sound plan can be drawn up and presented to the decision makers, do you really think there are enough people to keep it from happening.

Compete is one thing, but we better win and win big to keep fans in the seats. Without fans all these rosy scenarios people keep comiong up with don't compute.

First of all let me say any speculation on my part is moot anyway, because this thing is never going to fly, especially without msu. I am not someone looking out for msu either, I just know the political implications of this thing won't fly. Do you know the Regents even schedule meetings during Griz/Cat weekend? Of course part of that is self serving, they get to go to the game expense free, meals, lodging, tickets which the taxpayers pays. No big deal I guess. But the fact is, they would have to approve it, and there is a better chance Missoula gets an NFL Franchise before they do that without including that other school.

As for the revenue stream many predict. Some of those bowl games pay about $750,000, barely more than the Griz are getting from Iowa. Add the cost of additional football scholarships, factor in the HUGE increase in out-of-state players whose scholarships cost much more, the additonal sports that have to be added that add more costs, I don't see the numbers working. Everyone who has tried to pencil this thing out always assumes we are going to win, therfore sell out a 30,000 seat stadium. That just isn't going to happen. We have no idea how lucky we are to have what we do now. There is no other D1AA school that has had the run Montana has. In a D1 world, the first couple years we get our asses handed to us, fans quit coming, the stadium isn't such a home field advantage anymore, it spirals downward fast.

Our recruiting advantages we had in D1AA are gone. We no longer have the best venue, we are now at a disadvantage in recruiting. We are not just competing with WAC schools for kids, we are competing with a lot of D1 conferences including the Pac 10. Do we then start going after JC kids for the quick fix?

I could go on and on but what is the point. We can't just say "who cares about the bobcats". I can't stand them, but they are a huge part of the equation. they are kinda the E in e=mc2, E=politics in this case.

 

[Grizindahouse]

I "just laugh" when I-A lovers assume UM can immediately compete at the top of a conference like the WAC, could raise the significant amount of funds necessary to establish new sports and build new facilities to go I-A, would immediately got large pots of new money from being in I-A, and would not have a dropoff eventually in attendance if/when the team started having seasons with more than 3 losses. Just the large drop in the number of Montana kids (currently 50-60 on roster, and 14 out of 26 starters last year) would cause some decline in interest and attendance to drop, which combined with more losses and no playoffs, would more than offset the increase in interest caused by playing I-A teams (most of which are fairly mediocre), in my view. And don't try arguing that it wouldn't cost much money to go I-A, because the athletic dept. has already said it would. And don't try arguing that our athletic budget and attendance are already larger than some I-A schools, because we're already spending that money and close to maxing out on attendance, and would need significant incremental funds to go to I-A. "Jeez."

I realize it would take more money. What new facilities would the University need to compete in the WAC? Each school in the WAC received $375,000 from the football bowl revenue. The football program would also recieve more money from playing 1-A nonconference games, not just one game like now, but several as 1-A pay 1-A for games a much prettier amount than a 1-AA will pay a 1-AA. Also, the WAC usually has 2-3 teams in the NCAA tournament and has had a team advance in each of the last 11 years. This would increase a the share of revenue from 1 share (Big Sky currently) to 3-4 shares that would be split between the teams. I will also note that the same would apply to women but on a smaller scale. Currently the University of Montana has an athletic budget on par with 75%, if not more of the WAC schools. I am also confident that right from the start the Griz could be a middle of the road WAC football program, with the likes of Idaho, Utah St. New Mexico St, and San Jose St, and the pool of interested student athletes growing for the program.