Krakauer getting defensive?

[The.Real.2506]

:liar: :stupid: :msugrad: :hater: 2506 has a new name...ban this one too.

dunno who ironeagle is


But its nice to see that you miss me :thumb:

 

[MT Head Guy]

This article may only serve to support Krakauer given that you didn't include this portion of the article in your post:

They also may be as simple as a university’s “culture of reporting,” something MSU officials say they’ve worked hard to establish over the past decade. That culture wasn’t always present at UM, some believe, and it ultimately attracted the attention of the Department of Justice.

Primarily because I doubt I have read such self-serving tripe. And the reporter, oddly, failed to ask anything about it, like "and how do you do that?"

I've been on the MSU campus plenty. In 2004, while setting up an "awareness" program at UM, I checked at several peer institutions to see what they were doing to encourage awareness and reporting for sexual assault. MSU had a couple of pamphlets, which was about the same as most peer institutions. We set up a program far superior, frankly, as it actually engaged students.

The ludicrous explanation is just as stupid as "the reason we have twice as many murders as anyone else is because more people report them." It was likely the most egregiously self-indulgent explanation for having twice as many rapes as could be thought of; in particular because no one at Bozeman seemed to be aware of any "culture of reporting."

So MSU is self-indulgent and self serving becausethe reporter drew a conclusion that there may be differences on how the universities reported sex assaults and perhaps part of the reason why there was an investigation in Missoula?

It is unfortunate that this problem exists at all, let alone turn it into some pissing match about who is better at awareness, reporting sexual assaults the best, or having the least amount...

 

[NorthEndZoneDan]

Looks like a variety of people have already been getting ready to get on the offensive against Krakauer. From this article, Krakauer appears to be betting defensive--already.

"Paoli threatened a lawsuit, and Pabst sent Krakauer's lawyer a “thinly veiled threat” of libel in response to his questions, the author said."

"In an email, Pabst said she was not given adequate time to offer meaningful input, and she did not believe the author was interested in the facts."

This quote (below) made me laugh. The dean is the person who bungled the Saudi student sexual assault matter. Looks like Krakauer may have omitted the Saudi student incident in his book. Really great research Krakauer; no agenda. Ha. The guy's a joke.

"On campus, now retired UM Dean of Students Charles Couture was a swift and uncompromising investigator of student assaults, a man who delivered justice for young women more effectively than law enforcement, according to cases the book presents."

Credit to the Missoulian and Florio for prompting the DOJ investigation.

"“The Missoulian without a doubt deserves the credit for prompting the DOJ investigation and the reforms, which I think are significant,” Krakauer said."

http://missoulian.com/news/local/krakauer-discusses-missoula-rape-and-the-justice-system-in-a/article_d1938863-d0fc-5d02-a9cb-c0323fc792f1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I laughed when I read Krakauer's description of Couture. For him to single out Couture for praise tells me what I need to know about his spin. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it Merdad Kia (sp?) the history dept prof who gave the heads up to the Saudi student to hit the road and not Couture?

 

[TCCGRIZ]

Krakauer isn't a hack. He is depicted on this forum as a hack because he is exposing this "university" (and I use university VERY loosely) and football program for the stinking pile of shit that it is. I applaud Krakauer. UM deserves all the poor publicity that he can shovel on it.

I like the content but whoever decided to put an iconic picture of UM's campus looming in the rape ridden wasteland that is missoula is a f***[*] genius! :clap:

Ah yes he is , Everyone of his books are based off someone else's life experience's . The guy doesn't have an original thought in his head . Plus this book is more of an opinion piece based off his own . From what I gather from his quotes being so biased he never listen to the other side of the story regarding JJ's case . Oh and by the way go back to spocompton Chickenwing

 

[UMGriz75]

So MSU is self-indulgent and self serving becausethe reporter drew a conclusion that there may be differences on how the universities reported sex assaults and perhaps part of the reason why there was an investigation in Missoula?

The reporter drew a conclusion based on ...?

Pure baloney. MSU had twice the level of sexual assaults as its peer Universities, and the clueless reporter said "OK!"

"MSU: We have twice the level of sexual assaults because!"

 

[grizchamp]

Looks like a variety of people have already been getting ready to get on the offensive against Krakauer. From this article, Krakauer appears to be betting defensive--already.

"Paoli threatened a lawsuit, and Pabst sent Krakauer's lawyer a “thinly veiled threat” of libel in response to his questions, the author said."

"In an email, Pabst said she was not given adequate time to offer meaningful input, and she did not believe the author was interested in the facts."

This quote (below) made me laugh. The dean is the person who bungled the Saudi student sexual assault matter. Looks like Krakauer may have omitted the Saudi student incident in his book. Really great research Krakauer; no agenda. Ha. The guy's a joke.

"On campus, now retired UM Dean of Students Charles Couture was a swift and uncompromising investigator of student assaults, a man who delivered justice for young women more effectively than law enforcement, according to cases the book presents."

Credit to the Missoulian and Florio for prompting the DOJ investigation.

"“The Missoulian without a doubt deserves the credit for prompting the DOJ investigation and the reforms, which I think are significant,” Krakauer said."

http://missoulian.com/news/local/krakauer-discusses-missoula-rape-and-the-justice-system-in-a/article_d1938863-d0fc-5d02-a9cb-c0323fc792f1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it Merdad Kia (sp?) the history dept prof who gave the heads up to the Saudi student to hit the road and not Couture?

You are wrong. It was Couture, at least according to Missoulian article regarding Kia resigning.

 

[MT Head Guy]

So MSU is self-indulgent and self serving becausethe reporter drew a conclusion that there may be differences on how the universities reported sex assaults and perhaps part of the reason why there was an investigation in Missoula?

The reporter drew a conclusion based on ...?

Pure baloney. MSU had twice the level of sexual assaults as its peer Universities, and the clueless reporter said "OK!"

"MSU: We have twice the level of sexual assaults because!"

I guess I don't understand. MSU said they were working hard on the issue (period). The reporter, then wrote the statements that followed. Am I reading the quotes wrong? Are you mad at MSU for saying they "worked hard to establish..." a program or culture? It obviously was not 100% successful based on its numbers.

I can understand your frustration that a program you had involvement with is being highlighted nationally. I'm sorry that there are victims of sexual crime and am certain the work you did went a long way to preventing other issues. I'm sure that if UM did something well in this area, they would want others to do the same.

Aside from hating all things MSU, am I missing something?

 

[Ursa Major]

So MSU is self-indulgent and self serving becausethe reporter drew a conclusion that there may be differences on how the universities reported sex assaults and perhaps part of the reason why there was an investigation in Missoula?

The reporter drew a conclusion based on ...?

Pure baloney. MSU had twice the level of sexual assaults as its peer Universities, and the clueless reporter said "OK!"

"MSU: We have twice the level of sexual assaults because!"

I guess I don't understand. MSU said they were working hard on the issue (period). The reporter, then wrote the statements that followed. Am I reading the quotes wrong? Are you mad at MSU for saying they "worked hard to establish..." a program or culture? It obviously was not 100% successful based on its numbers.

I can understand your frustration that a program you had involvement with is being highlighted nationally. I'm sorry that there are victims of sexual crime and am certain the work you did went a long way to preventing other issues. I'm sure that if UM did something well in this area, they would want others to do the same.

Aside from hating all things MSU, am I missing something?

I'm not comfortable with the term "msu was working hard" when it comes to rape prevention. Sick bastards!

 

[UMGriz75]

Back in 2010, the Daily Beast did a review of the "Most Dangerous Universitities in America," based on the crime statistics of Murder, Negligent Murder, Forcible Rape, Nonforcible Rape, Robbery, Aggravated Assault, Burglary, Motor Vehicle Theft, and Arson.

Of the 458 listed Universities, Montana State University was in the top 60 (#58), one of the most dangerous places to be.

The University of Montana was at #436, one of the safest places to be.

It wasn't really true about MSU, because allegedly, it was just because of an overweening desire to report crimes at MSU. The kids there really like to report crimes. All of them. It was a "culture!" Students were just lined up ... apparently they got treats!

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/09/14/most-dangerous-college-campuses-ranked.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[UMGriz75]

So MSU is self-indulgent and self serving becausethe reporter drew a conclusion that there may be differences on how the universities reported sex assaults and perhaps part of the reason why there was an investigation in Missoula?

No, the reporter was parroting the completely unsubstantiated -- and in my direct experience untrue -- claim of a safety functionary attempting to concoct a reason why his school had twice the level of rapes as most of the peer schools in the Big Sky Conference. The hapless reporter after buying into the self-serving explanation for which no proof of any kind was sought, then didn't get the odd contradiction, that if MSU was so successful, then why did its levels of rapes continue at such a high rate?

 

[Hammer]

Back in 2010, the Daily Beast did a review of the "Most Dangerous Universitities in America," based on the crime statistics of Murder, Negligent Murder, Forcible Rape, Nonforcible Rape, Robbery, Aggravated Assault, Burglary, Motor Vehicle Theft, and Arson.

Of the 458 listed Universities, Montana State University was in the top 60 (#58), one of the most dangerous places to be.

The University of Montana was at #436, one of the safest places to be.

Allegedly, it was because of an overweening desire to report crimes at MSU. It was a "culture!" Students were just lined up ... apparently they got treats!

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/09/14/most-dangerous-college-campuses-ranked.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

cant let facts get in the way of a good story!

 

[bigsky33]

It is a shame that UM is giving our State such a bad name in his book.

 

[indian-outlaw]

I can't wait to read this book, I love Krakhauers stuff.

 

[MT Head Guy]

So MSU is self-indulgent and self serving becausethe reporter drew a conclusion that there may be differences on how the universities reported sex assaults and perhaps part of the reason why there was an investigation in Missoula?

No, the reporter was parroting the completely unsubstantiated -- and in my direct experience untrue -- claim of a safety functionary attempting to concoct a reason why his school had twice the level of rapes as most of the peer schools in the Big Sky Conference. The hapless reporter after buying into the self-serving explanation for which no proof of any kind was sought, then didn't get the odd contradiction, that if MSU was so successful, then why did its levels of rapes continue at such a high rate?

I appreciate the background information and data. It does help frame things.

What I get out of this is:
-MSU has twice as many reported incidents.
-The reporter (whether coerced or not) infers that MSU may be reporting in a different manner.
-You have definitive and accurate inside information from both school (or more) that shows that they are indeed reporting things the same and there is a significant problem at MSU.

If you know all this and have been involved with both programs so intimately, why aren't you being interviewed or doing something about it? More importantly, why aren't you working to help resolve the significant issue at MSU (knowing what UM has done to be twice as good)?

By the way, I have a niece at UM who has been sexually abused on campus and it did not end up in the count (because she did not report it). You are not the only person on the face of the earth with "inside" information. I appreciate how upset you are about MSU, but quite frankly its meaningless in scale when you have to deal with a victim of the crime...however you report it.

 

[statler & waldorf]

One question/observation: instead of questioning UMGriz75 as to why HE doesn't do something to resolve MSUs rape problem, why don't YOU?

 

[MT Head Guy]

One question/observation: instead of questioning UMGriz75 as to why HE, UM faculty, doesn't do something to resolve MSUs rape problem, why don't YOU?

First, I don't work in that field as UMGriz75 stated he does. I'm also not stating he has done a poor job, but if he has a method that works - why not share it regardless of the school affinity?

What I can and have done is worked with my family on an unreported sexual assault that occurred on UM's campus.

If I had the skills and inside information, believe me I would try.

 

[IroneagleXP]

Only a trash griz fan would minimize the rape problem at um by stating that msu has twice the problem in Bozeman. News flash dipshit, um has made national news and now has a fucking BOOK written about the rape problem in missoula. If you really are faculty umgriz75 then I would assert that it is people with attitudes like your own that contribute to the problem of rampant sexual abuse on your campus. Straight trash sir.

 

[MT Head Guy]

Only a trash griz fan would minimize the rape problem at um by stating that msu has twice the problem in Bozeman. News flash dipshit, um has made national news and now has a f***[*] BOOK written about the rape problem in missoula. If you really are faculty umgriz75 then I would assert that it is people with attitudes like your own that contribute to the problem of rampant sexual abuse on your campus. Straight trash sir.

Listen, it was never my intent to call out UMGriz75. I apologize because it probably came out that way. I was only trying to make a point that the true picture is probably not as clear as we may like it to be - we all have some perspective on it (some more than others).

I pray that this issue can be fixed for the sake of our children attending these schools - particularly in the state of Montana.

UMGriz75: Thank you for the things you have done (really). Never meant to attack. Sorry.

 

[UMGriz75]

What I get out of this is:
-MSU has twice as many reported incidents.
-The reporter (whether coerced or not) infers that MSU may be reporting in a different manner.

The reporter simply took what the MSU official said "at face value." Kind of like "I did not have sex with that woman, Miss Lewinsky." Some did believe that. The reporter did not even ask the question as to how the schools might be "reporting in a different manner." Seems like it would have been a good question. I can assure you the MSU official would not have had an answer.

The "Reporter" was apparently entirely unaware that universities are required by Federal law to standardize their reporting of campus crimes, as required by the Clery Act, signed into law in 1990, which was originally known as the Crime Awareness and Campus Security Act. Neither the "reporter" nor the self-serving MSU official offered any explanation of which school might have been violating the Clery Act regarding how they handled their statistics, nor how, and no allegation has ever been made that either school was ever in noncompliance with the mandated reporting procedures.

 

[EverettGriz]

So MSU is self-indulgent and self serving becausethe reporter drew a conclusion that there may be differences on how the universities reported sex assaults and perhaps part of the reason why there was an investigation in Missoula?

No, the reporter was parroting the completely unsubstantiated -- and in my direct experience untrue -- claim of a safety functionary attempting to concoct a reason why his school had twice the level of rapes as most of the peer schools in the Big Sky Conference. The hapless reporter after buying into the self-serving explanation for which no proof of any kind was sought, then didn't get the odd contradiction, that if MSU was so successful, then why did its levels of rapes continue at such a high rate?

I appreciate the background information and data. It does help frame things.

What I get out of this is:
-MSU has twice as many reported incidents.
-The reporter (whether coerced or not) infers that MSU may be reporting in a different manner.
-You have definitive and accurate inside information from both school (or more) that shows that they are indeed reporting things the same and there is a significant problem at MSU.

If you know all this and have been involved with both programs so intimately, why aren't you being interviewed or doing something about it? More importantly, why aren't you working to help resolve the significant issue at MSU (knowing what UM has done to be twice as good)?

By the way, I have a niece at UM who has been sexually abused on campus and it did not end up in the count (because she did not report it). You are not the only person on the face of the earth with "inside" information. I appreciate how upset you are about MSU, but quite frankly its meaningless in scale when you have to deal with a victim of the crime...however you report it.

What I get out of this is that an msu grad doesn't know the difference between implied and inferred. :msugrad: