Recap from Kaimin...hard to argue any of it

[bobcatOninetails]

The University would take a large step back in the public relations department. And that is HUGE in the rebuilding/rebranding of UM. Like it or not, many people around the state feel UM is/was unsafe. This was in large part due to perceived/real atmosphere of lawlessness created around Bobby's football team. Unfair to lump the entire UM athletic department in with those bad apples, but people saw it as a stain on UM. A stain that was in part due to Bobby's guys. In short, just poor PR.

If betsy (doesn't deserve a capital) was in charge back then we wouldn't have had that pr problem. :roll: :mrgreen:

I guess I'm not sure who (B)betsy is....?

SEC of Education, changing the rules of assault on campuses.

If Obama's rules were in place during JJ's career. He never sees the the field again. Just sayin.


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[Fahque]

Hauck was at UM for 7 years? What lawlessness? The house burglary. What else? No sexual assault allegations. Either you or people in MT are just making this up. It isn't supported by the facts.

No sexual assault allegations? Who do you think recruited the athletes who brought a slew of sexual assault and rape allegations/convictions? Do you remember Beau Donaldson? Jordan Johnson? The four players who were accused of a 2010 gang rape? What about Tru's assault? Jason Washington? Gerald Kemp?Jimmy Wilson ended up being justified, but still not a good look.

Like I have said many times before, I do not like widespread bashing of the players/football team/athletic department/University, but come on....We did have some issues. It is beyond time to own up to them. Once we do that, we can move on.

There were no sexual assault allegations in the press during Hauck's time in Missoula. Don't think Hauck recruited JJ. Pflu did. He was acquitted in court, and allowed to stay in school and play. How can that be held against any coach. Yes, Hauck recruited Donaldson. Most of the players involved the BS gang rape situation were not recruited by Hauck. None of them were charged. Every player who bothered to get a lawyer was allowed to continue at UM and graduate. Tru didn't assault anyone. He got in a fight. No charges brought. College kids get in fights. Jason Washington what. He had his medical marijuana thing years after he had been done playing football. Kemp pled nolo to a disorderly conduct charge, i.e. loud party. What's the big deal? The cops were at fault on that one. Lucky they didn't sued. Yes, Wilson acquitted, allowed to come back to UM, and played in NFL.

The problem is some people like you believing false allegations and other things blown out of proportion. As I have said all along, the problem was Gwen Floria and the Missoulian, not Griz football.

So, come on to you, UM actually didn't have a bunch of substantive issues. Mainly a bunch of false allegations, and related bad press. In any event, Hauck, minus the burglary, actually didn't have a bunch of serious stuff. He was a huge disciplinarian.

Two things.
1. Jordan Johnson was recruited under Bobby. He played in 2010, the year after Bobby left.

2. To the greater point of my original post: There was a lot of bad publicity during, and especially immediately after Hauck left. A lot of people not interested in Griz athletics saw this and assumed the program was full of "thugs." Many of those people still do not believe the program, or the University for that matter, have really cleaned up their image. That is the fault of those people, not UM or the team. I believe the team has done a good job moving forward by hiring and recruiting high character people. People that bash the team haven't done their homework to see how great these student athletes are.

Unfortunately there are A LOT of people around the state, but especially in Missoula, that still view Griz football as an unnecessary, and hurtful piece of UM. I believe the Missoulian, Gwen, AND a very FEW unsavory student athletes have led to this feeling (right or wrong).

I understand only Donaldson was charged and served time. I understand there is much discrepancy between allegations and facts surrounding the many instances mentioned above. I also believe a lot of people don't care and assume they are all guilty. I also believe Gwen and the Missoulian did not do a good job covering the team, and led much of the public to believe the team is wild and uncontrollable.

In essence, I think the University of Montana and Griz football suffer from poor public relations. I think it is a HUGE factor for lower enrollment, and I believe it is one of the biggest hurdles left before the University gets back on the right path. MY initial feeling stated above is that hiring Bobby Hauck will only add fuel to the fire stoked by people with anti-Griz agendas.

JJ WAS NOT RECRUITED BY HAUK, JJ WAS PFLU'S PRIZED RECRUIT.


He played in 2010 as a true freshman

 

[RobGriz]

Two things.
1. Jordan Johnson was recruited under Bobby. He played in 2010, the year after Bobby left.

2. To the greater point of my original post: There was a lot of bad publicity during, and especially immediately after Hauck left. A lot of people not interested in Griz athletics saw this and assumed the program was full of "thugs." Many of those people still do not believe the program, or the University for that matter, have really cleaned up their image. That is the fault of those people, not UM or the team. I believe the team has done a good job moving forward by hiring and recruiting high character people. People that bash the team haven't done their homework to see how great these student athletes are.

Unfortunately there are A LOT of people around the state, but especially in Missoula, that still view Griz football as an unnecessary, and hurtful piece of UM. I believe the Missoulian, Gwen, AND a very FEW unsavory student athletes have led to this feeling (right or wrong).

I understand only Donaldson was charged and served time. I understand there is much discrepancy between allegations and facts surrounding the many instances mentioned above. I also believe a lot of people don't care and assume they are all guilty. I also believe Gwen and the Missoulian did not do a good job covering the team, and led much of the public to believe the team is wild and uncontrollable.

In essence, I think the University of Montana and Griz football suffer from poor public relations. I think it is a HUGE factor for lower enrollment, and I believe it is one of the biggest hurdles left before the University gets back on the right path. MY initial feeling stated above is that hiring Bobby Hauck will only add fuel to the fire stoked by people with anti-Griz agendas.

I let you figure out what's wrong with #1 but more importantly is JJ was found innocent.

My bad on #1.
Still feel the University has a large image problem, even with JJ found innocent. Unfortunately perception often matters more than reality in these situations. There are still the numerous other incidents (guilty or not) that negatively influence people's perception of the Football team and University. Until the perception of UM is changed, Hauck or Pflu won't be seriously considered for head coach.

Thanks for your input Gwen.

:thumb:

 

[daGrizJ]

Reading all the pregame threads it appeared a fair portion of posters ( and the majority of our tailgate prognosticators) thought we would lose and lose big. We didn't. If this was the final score but we never got the 18 point lead nobody would be bitching and calling for the coaches' heads. What I saw in this game and in others is that we simply do not have the speed or talent in the secondary to effectively defend a good passing attack once the pass rushers get gassed and can't put pressure on the QB. (I know, all secondaries have this problem). Has it gone unnoticed that no matter what Semore tries this secondary still gets eaten up by good qb-receiver combos once the qb has time to throw?

I do agree that, had everybody including the coaching staff realized this was going to happen and Gabe would quit making overthrows and have a lot more time to throw, a slowdown from the O would have been a great strategy. But if we didn't have the drop in the end zone, didn't have the ticky-tacky PO called on 13 on 4th down in the end zone, didn't have the throw off a back foot into double coverage for the pick, if 13 could tackle the receiver for a 6 yard gain instead of a TD on the next play, we would all be celebrating a victory. These are all player mistakes in execution, not coaching mistakes.

As for what could the DC do? Eastern's hurry up disrupted the DC's play calling and good for Eastern in recognizing this. I hope Semore can figure out how to get the calls in quicker or the Griz will see this the rest of the year. I don't recall a single CB blitz. A good sack or hit from the blindside at full speed gets in a QB's head so they start or continue rushing throws. I didn't see the aggressive calls we were lead to believe were his trademark.

This is the most sane and comprehensive thread on this board for the last three days. I agree with everything here.

The team gave the #11 team in the country, with the FCS offensive player of the year and still a damn good WRs corp, a good scare, when NOBODY gave us a chance to win, (shit we even beat the spread) with a RS freshman QB in his first college game and people want to fire the entire coaching staff. Gawd, get real people.

 

[fanofzoo]

If betsy (doesn't deserve a capital) was in charge back then we wouldn't have had that pr problem. :roll: :mrgreen:

I guess I'm not sure who (B)betsy is....?

SEC of Education, changing the rules of assault on campuses.

If Obama's rules were in place during JJ's career. He never sees the the field again. Just sayin.


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Hard to argue with stupid but "The O's" were in place, now betsy wouldn't care who did what. Good news for you sheep fu#fers

 

[Ursus1]

Reading all the pregame threads it appeared a fair portion of posters ( and the majority of our tailgate prognosticators) thought we would lose and lose big. We didn't. If this was the final score but we never got the 18 point lead nobody would be bitching and calling for the coaches' heads. What I saw in this game and in others is that we simply do not have the speed or talent in the secondary to effectively defend a good passing attack once the pass rushers get gassed and can't put pressure on the QB. (I know, all secondaries have this problem). Has it gone unnoticed that no matter what Semore tries this secondary still gets eaten up by good qb-receiver combos once the qb has time to throw?

I do agree that, had everybody including the coaching staff realized this was going to happen and Gabe would quit making overthrows and have a lot more time to throw, a slowdown from the O would have been a great strategy. But if we didn't have the drop in the end zone, didn't have the ticky-tacky PO called on 13 on 4th down in the end zone, didn't have the throw off a back foot into double coverage for the pick, if 13 could tackle the receiver for a 6 yard gain instead of a TD on the next play, we would all be celebrating a victory. These are all player mistakes in execution, not coaching mistakes.

As for what could the DC do? Eastern's hurry up disrupted the DC's play calling and good for Eastern in recognizing this. I hope Semore can figure out how to get the calls in quicker or the Griz will see this the rest of the year. I don't recall a single CB blitz. A good sack or hit from the blindside at full speed gets in a QB's head so they start or continue rushing throws. I didn't see the aggressive calls we were lead to believe were his trademark.

This is the most sane and comprehensive thread on this board for the last three days. I agree with everything here.

The team gave the #11 team in the country, with the FCS offensive player of the year and still a damn good WRs corp, a good scare, when NOBODY gave us a chance to win, (shit we even beat the spread) with a RS freshman QB in his first college game and people want to fire the entire coaching staff. Gawd, get real people.

Nice to know giving the 11th ranked team at home a good scare and beating the spread is now a good game....boy have people's expectations fallen. Once upon a time UM won games like that and it wasn't even a question deep playoffs were coming....now more of a participation trophy staff and people are okay with that game.

 

[PlayerRep]

If betsy (doesn't deserve a capital) was in charge back then we wouldn't have had that pr problem. :roll: :mrgreen:

I guess I'm not sure who (B)betsy is....?

SEC of Education, changing the rules of assault on campuses.

If Obama's rules were in place during JJ's career. He never sees the the field again. Just sayin.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Huh, Obama's rules, i.e. the Dear Colleague Letter, was in place then. And obviously he saw the field again. In fact, he was never kicked out of school and always had his scholarship (even in the year he couldn't play).

 

[fanofzoo]

I guess I'm not sure who (B)betsy is....?

SEC of Education, changing the rules of assault on campuses.

If Obama's rules were in place during JJ's career. He never sees the the field again. Just sayin.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Huh, Obama's rules, i.e. the Dear Colleague Letter, was in place then. And obviously he saw the field again. In fact, he was never kicked out of school and always had his scholarship (even in the year he couldn't play).

Ok he just said it better.

 

[griz5700]

Msn we've really fallen far. This is embarrassing. Stitt Semore and Haslam need canned asap.

Let's hope that Bobby will come back. Would be exciting to see what he could do with Gresch and a better O-line with the 22 freaking receivers we have.

If Bobby came back we'd probably win games, but I'm not so sure that it would be good for Jensen's development. He's played his whole career in the spread, switching to a pro set offense would take some adjustments, as well as possibly sacrificing some of his inherent strengths. Remember when JJ was forced into running Delaney's pro set? He performed well; but did it maximize his potential?

Think he could definitely adjust and excel under center.

 

[goatcreekgriz]

Reading all the pregame threads it appeared a fair portion of posters ( and the majority of our tailgate prognosticators) thought we would lose and lose big. We didn't. If this was the final score but we never got the 18 point lead nobody would be bitching and calling for the coaches' heads. What I saw in this game and in others is that we simply do not have the speed or talent in the secondary to effectively defend a good passing attack once the pass rushers get gassed and can't put pressure on the QB. (I know, all secondaries have this problem). Has it gone unnoticed that no matter what Semore tries this secondary still gets eaten up by good qb-receiver combos once the qb has time to throw?

I do agree that, had everybody including the coaching staff realized this was going to happen and Gabe would quit making overthrows and have a lot more time to throw, a slowdown from the O would have been a great strategy. But if we didn't have the drop in the end zone, didn't have the ticky-tacky PO called on 13 on 4th down in the end zone, didn't have the throw off a back foot into double coverage for the pick, if 13 could tackle the receiver for a 6 yard gain instead of a TD on the next play, we would all be celebrating a victory. These are all player mistakes in execution, not coaching mistakes.

As for what could the DC do? Eastern's hurry up disrupted the DC's play calling and good for Eastern in recognizing this. I hope Semore can figure out how to get the calls in quicker or the Griz will see this the rest of the year. I don't recall a single CB blitz. A good sack or hit from the blindside at full speed gets in a QB's head so they start or continue rushing throws. I didn't see the aggressive calls we were lead to believe were his trademark.

This is the most sane and comprehensive thread on this board for the last three days. I agree with everything here.

The team gave the #11 team in the country, with the FCS offensive player of the year and still a damn good WRs corp, a good scare, when NOBODY gave us a chance to win, (shit we even beat the spread) with a RS freshman QB in his first college game and people want to fire the entire coaching staff. Gawd, get real people.

Nice to know giving the 11th ranked team at home a good scare and beating the spread is now a good game....boy have people's expectations fallen. Once upon a time UM won games like that and it wasn't even a question deep playoffs were coming....now more of a participation trophy staff and people are okay with that game.

Agree with all three of you, if that can make sense. 13 has certainly been fighting a bum ankle for a while, so that may account for his play at times. Not sure if D issues result from poor adjustments, not enough talent or lack of depth, but I don't remember any game (since I started paying attention in 1980) where the Griz gave up six TDs in the second half. And I hope to never see it again.

 

[Boscoe]

Msn we've really fallen far. This is embarrassing. Stitt Semore and Haslam need canned asap.

Let's hope that Bobby will come back. Would be exciting to see what he could do with Gresch and a better O-line with the 22 freaking receivers we have.

If Bobby came back we'd probably win games, but I'm not so sure that it would be good for Jensen's development. He's played his whole career in the spread, switching to a pro set offense would take some adjustments, as well as possibly sacrificing some of his inherent strengths. Remember when JJ was forced into running Delaney's pro set? He performed well; but did it maximize his potential?

Think he could definitely adjust and excel under center.

I think he could, as well. And if Stitt fails and Bobby comes back, we'd be in good hands. I just don't think it would maximize GJ's potential.

 

['68griz]

Good God, people. Bobby is NOT coming back!!! Not next year!!! Not the following year!! Not ever!
Deal with it, and move on.

 

[go96griz]

I guess I'm not sure who (B)betsy is....?

SEC of Education, changing the rules of assault on campuses.

If Obama's rules were in place during JJ's career. He never sees the the field again. Just sayin.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Huh, Obama's rules, i.e. the Dear Colleague Letter, was in place then. And obviously he saw the field again. In fact, he was never kicked out of school and always had his scholarship (even in the year he couldn't play).

True the letter was out and UM failed to update their student conduct code. Despite that fact, they went after JJ under the new rules. I believe to this day that Clay reversed JJ's expulsion because he saw the absolute injustice done by Couture's kangaroo court and then Dinkstrom's rubber stamp approval. The department of justice overreached big time on the dear colleague letter by trampling the rights of the accused. Gone were the days of guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and even more concerning was that you were assumed guilty. How is that for justice!

 

[bearister]

Good God, people. Bobby is NOT coming back!!! Not next year!!! Not the following year!! Not ever!
Deal with it, and move on.

Agree. There are two former FCS football coaches on earth who have no chance to coach the Griz. One is Mike Kramer. The other is BH.


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[PlayerRep]

Good God, people. Bobby is NOT coming back!!! Not next year!!! Not the following year!! Not ever!
Deal with it, and move on.

Why do you think Hauck would never come back? Because he wouldn't want to, or because he wouldn't get hired?

 

[RobGriz]

Good God, people. Bobby is NOT coming back!!! Not next year!!! Not the following year!! Not ever!
Deal with it, and move on.

Please, give us the source of your "insider" information.

 

[MTGRZ]

Two things.
1. Jordan Johnson was recruited under Bobby. He played in 2010, the year after Bobby left.

2. To the greater point of my original post: There was a lot of bad publicity during, and especially immediately after Hauck left. A lot of people not interested in Griz athletics saw this and assumed the program was full of "thugs." Many of those people still do not believe the program, or the University for that matter, have really cleaned up their image. That is the fault of those people, not UM or the team. I believe the team has done a good job moving forward by hiring and recruiting high character people. People that bash the team haven't done their homework to see how great these student athletes are.

Unfortunately there are A LOT of people around the state, but especially in Missoula, that still view Griz football as an unnecessary, and hurtful piece of UM. I believe the Missoulian, Gwen, AND a very FEW unsavory student athletes have led to this feeling (right or wrong).

I understand only Donaldson was charged and served time. I understand there is much discrepancy between allegations and facts surrounding the many instances mentioned above. I also believe a lot of people don't care and assume they are all guilty. I also believe Gwen and the Missoulian did not do a good job covering the team, and led much of the public to believe the team is wild and uncontrollable.

In essence, I think the University of Montana and Griz football suffer from poor public relations. I think it is a HUGE factor for lower enrollment, and I believe it is one of the biggest hurdles left before the University gets back on the right path. MY initial feeling stated above is that hiring Bobby Hauck will only add fuel to the fire stoked by people with anti-Griz agendas.

I let you figure out what's wrong with #1 but more importantly is JJ was found innocent.

My bad on #1.
Still feel the University has a large image problem, even with JJ found innocent. Unfortunately perception often matters more than reality in these situations. There are still the numerous other incidents (guilty or not) that negatively influence people's perception of the Football team and University. Until the perception of UM is changed, Hauck or Pflu won't be seriously considered for head coach.

Thanks for your input Gwen.

Haha. I'm not sure you actually read what I had to say. But, whatever. I guess if you'd like to keep your head in the sand and live like it's still 2009, that is your choice.

 

[The_Real_Chief]

Good God, people. Bobby is NOT coming back!!! Not next year!!! Not the following year!! Not ever!
Deal with it, and move on.

Larry at the Big Timber Town Pump would beg to differ with you.

 

[SoldierGriz]

I let you figure out what's wrong with #1 but more importantly is JJ was found innocent.

My bad on #1.
Still feel the University has a large image problem, even with JJ found innocent. Unfortunately perception often matters more than reality in these situations. There are still the numerous other incidents (guilty or not) that negatively influence people's perception of the Football team and University. Until the perception of UM is changed, Hauck or Pflu won't be seriously considered for head coach.

Thanks for your input Gwen.

Haha. I'm not sure you actually read what I had to say. But, whatever. I guess if you'd like to keep your head in the sand and live like it's still 2009, that is your choice.

Yeah, I read what you had to say....most of it was wrong. You're the only one literally developing and publishing a list of Griz transgressions from the past - most which turned out to be complete BS. But, thanks for keeping track.

So - back to editing for you Gwen. I'll go back to my sand.

 

[PlayerRep]

My view is that the bad press and perceptions about the football allegations/incidents, and Krak's book, had only minor impacts on enrollment. Other factors were much more important. Someone told me that the number/percentage of frosh men enrolling declined at a higher rate than women. UM failed to recognize the extent the problem and trends, was slow to take corrective action, and then didn't do a good job initially with the corrective action. UM was also perceived as not having a good leader, and that perception was correct. The budget cuts and declining number of classes offered have also impacted enrollment.

My view is that blaming enrollment decline on bad press about athletic things from years ago, is more of a narrative than based on reality. Which is not to say that UM didn't get alot of bad press for several years.

As for the people in the State who still have this perception, or who don't like football, is there a reason to care about them or what they think?