retiredpopo
Well-known member
garizzalies said:
pretty much MSU, University of Idaho and Wyoming would be options if they want to play football.
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pretty much MSU, University of Idaho and Wyoming would be options if they want to play football.
garizzalies
Well-known member
Has it always been that way, or did it change? I thought Vinnie was able to do the two years at UM, but maybe I was wrong (first time never).retiredpopo said:
As a WWAMI graduate, it does not matter where you got your undergraduate degree, as long as you were a resident of Montana. I graduated from a liberal arts school in Oregon and was accepted. In my day it was actually beneficial to come from a liberal arts school and not be completely based in the sciences. The first year then was based in the school to the east, the second in Seattle and the last two which were clinicals, could be done all over, such as Spokane, Kalispell or Great Falls. In my day the Seahawk running back Dave Doornink was in the program while he was still playing football
Have they given a statement explaining the reason for departure? I would respect their decision But I would have to believe that they were not happy with their roles on the team. Hard to believe that they would decide to leave on the same day due to academic reasons after going through spring ball and playing in the two games.
HelenaHandBasket
Well-known member
speth said:
I suggest you quit making assumptions.
The days of liberal arts students going to medical school are long past. The emphasis is now not only the sciences but ever increasingly into bioengineering and/or IT, related bioengineering. The nonprofit I work for has a limited number of internships available to aspiring med school hopefuls. In the last 5 years 100% of our interns have been accepted to med school. Of those accepted all had Masters Degrees in very specific medically related fields and roughly 30% doctorates. It makes huge difference not only in medical school acceptance but in where they do their clerkships but then where they go for residency. Medical school itself is essentially only 2 years where it used to be 4. So they expect the hard sciences out of the way before you get there. The second 2 years replaces what used to be internship. I'd say the Twins know what they are doing far more than what guys living years in the past on a football board do.
As far as being on a Championship team. everybody remembers the old high-school jocks still living in the past thinking they are still something and laugh at them openly. There are the old college jocks who act the same people laugh at them too but mostly behind their backs. Hell I didn't even know that the Ivies (Dartmouth in particular) had a football team until reading it on egriz.....
As far as being on a Championship team. everybody remembers the old high-school jocks still living in the past thinking they are still something and laugh at them openly. There are the old college jocks who act the same people laugh at them too but mostly behind their backs. Hell I didn't even know that the Ivies (Dartmouth in particular) had a football team until reading it on egriz.....
From a new physician out of WAMMI program:
“That commenter is wrong. While med schools certainly do like those hyper-specialized applicants who have very science heavy backgrounds with grad degrees and work/internship experience, there is still huge value of a liberal arts education.
Just like highly competitive colleges, medical schools value a diverse educational background. Proportionally to their undergraduate student body, Ivies and other top liberal arts schools send more to med school than any other schools. Applicants with an academic major outside of a science are equally appreciated by admissions committees, and schools actively pursue med students with a variation of undergrad studies.
The reason for this is that the first 1-2 years of medical school is a high intensity study of the basic sciences of medicine (anatomy, physiology, neuroscience, advanced biochemistry, etc.). At the end of the pre-clinical years of med school, the students have nearly enough science credits to match that of a PhD graduate - meaning there is a huge amount of basic science education within med school itself. That’s why it’s simply not necessary to recruit undergrads with a super science-focused background. All med school applicants have completed pre-med requirements (roughly 10 courses in bio, physics, and chemistry), though there has been talk at some schools about relaxing even this requirement - reinforcing the idea that medical students will come from all sorts of educational backgrounds. The “well-rounded” student is always in a great position for success. The comments about medical school replacing internship and being “only two years” is clearly misinformed - not sure what was meant by that.”
“That commenter is wrong. While med schools certainly do like those hyper-specialized applicants who have very science heavy backgrounds with grad degrees and work/internship experience, there is still huge value of a liberal arts education.
Just like highly competitive colleges, medical schools value a diverse educational background. Proportionally to their undergraduate student body, Ivies and other top liberal arts schools send more to med school than any other schools. Applicants with an academic major outside of a science are equally appreciated by admissions committees, and schools actively pursue med students with a variation of undergrad studies.
The reason for this is that the first 1-2 years of medical school is a high intensity study of the basic sciences of medicine (anatomy, physiology, neuroscience, advanced biochemistry, etc.). At the end of the pre-clinical years of med school, the students have nearly enough science credits to match that of a PhD graduate - meaning there is a huge amount of basic science education within med school itself. That’s why it’s simply not necessary to recruit undergrads with a super science-focused background. All med school applicants have completed pre-med requirements (roughly 10 courses in bio, physics, and chemistry), though there has been talk at some schools about relaxing even this requirement - reinforcing the idea that medical students will come from all sorts of educational backgrounds. The “well-rounded” student is always in a great position for success. The comments about medical school replacing internship and being “only two years” is clearly misinformed - not sure what was meant by that.”
PlayerRep said:
WAMMI is a perfect example of the new process. Two years of heavy academics (barely the same amount as an associated masters degree far from PhD level followed by a number of rotations called "clerkships" Years ago the academic portion 3+ years was followed by a crammed together 1 year internship usually based in a "teaching Hospital" from there students would either move into "general practice" a shirt term residency or if they were very good a specialty residency. Now following the clerkship period the go into the very competitive Residency Pool. The best residencies look very strongly at their academic records and accomplishments, their clerkship records etc. Instead of slave labor in a teaching hospital, many of these residencies are pretty well paying jobs. The competition is fierce EVERY angle is used for those who wish to to get the best residencies as opposed to say the University of Montana program specializing in Rural medicine. We would like to think we are getting well rounded individuals, but that is slowly going away being replaced by highly educated scientists who's "practice" is directed ever increasingly based on Data Points and protocols, and less on clinical skills. But as most physicians are employees, few are true practitioners. They have no lack of skills in fact skills are better than ever. Your friend is correct there is a huge value in a liberal arts education. But a low ranked university with a great football team is not the place for the ambitious future medical professional to get it. These kids who didn't get their education in a well respected university need an equalizer which is the advanced degrees. The "Twins" understand that and looking for better. I mean after all, PR why did you go the Ivies rout instead of MSU like the rest of your Family?
BTW while I my office with my wife's business since I retired a number of years ago. I do something entirely different upstairs. Tomislav Mihaljevicis the chairman of our medical advisory board, has a day job. I'm on his board for reviewing applications for residency...... I can also fix a vacuum.
tnt said:
What new process? The WWAMI always had a couple years of science. The difference is that the first year was at MSU (i.e. the state school) and next year was at UW med school. Then the mini clerkships. In recent years, the first 2 years are at the home school.
As my doctor friend said, many if not most admittees to med school are from liberal arts schools. Yes, the intensive one year of internship after med school was eliminated years ago, and folded into the residency portion. Going to undergrad in MT is perfectly fine for getting into the WWAMI program, but only top kids from MT schooled get into the better med schools. Bodnar's wife went to MSU and got into Harvard Med, after her Rhodes Scholarship.
Cleveland Clinic is a great medical institution.
The problem is out of roughly 50 or so Montana Kids entering Medical school each year only 20 are entering through the WAMMI program. The big changes are the extension of WAMMI hasn't been to produce more docs. The porgram added the Montana Track program initiated in 2008 will train 5 students in Missoula and 5 students in Billings
for the entirety of their third year. Then they added the WRITE (WWAMI Rural Integrated Training Experience) program, which places students in rural/
underserved clinics for five months of education to seven sites in Montana and lastly the RUOP program—Rural/Underserved Opportunities Program—which places first-year students in rural and underserved practices for a month, placed 31 students in Montana this past summer with all of that which is producing very needed PCP for all of Montana (not to mention writing off a substantial portion of Med School debt) opportunties for Montana's best students exist elsewhere. You will not find a BIGGER proponent of Liberal Arts especially for PCP than me. I work in the rare disease area. Perhaps the biggest challenge a Rare Disease Patient faces is not his disease but rather finding a Physician he can communicate with. By nature a Scientist is introvert thinking in terms of Data points. So when called upon to communicate on an interpersonal basis, there is a LOT that can go wrong (have you ever considered that social media is engineered by true introverts often working in their mothers basement? What as Jeff Atwood one of the leading social media Guru's says what can possibly go wrong with that?) The reason we are seeing such an increase in med students with post Graduate degrees in the sciences is that they are indeed becoming well rounded in Liberal Arts as undergrads but developing the necessary science skills as Grads. Much to the consternation of many on this board believing U of M lacks in STEM, the fact remains the very BEST Universities in the country are in fact Liberal Arts with strong science. U of M was one of those but somewhere along the line it was decided enrollment numbers were more important than quality education and EVERYTHING went south. Liberal Arts were gutted, Undergrad sciences were taught by adjuncts and Kink George decided it was more important to serve 14,000 students poorly rather than 9000 students well. As a result we lose many very talented students elsewhere, if they even come. The "twins" are a good example.....
for the entirety of their third year. Then they added the WRITE (WWAMI Rural Integrated Training Experience) program, which places students in rural/
underserved clinics for five months of education to seven sites in Montana and lastly the RUOP program—Rural/Underserved Opportunities Program—which places first-year students in rural and underserved practices for a month, placed 31 students in Montana this past summer with all of that which is producing very needed PCP for all of Montana (not to mention writing off a substantial portion of Med School debt) opportunties for Montana's best students exist elsewhere. You will not find a BIGGER proponent of Liberal Arts especially for PCP than me. I work in the rare disease area. Perhaps the biggest challenge a Rare Disease Patient faces is not his disease but rather finding a Physician he can communicate with. By nature a Scientist is introvert thinking in terms of Data points. So when called upon to communicate on an interpersonal basis, there is a LOT that can go wrong (have you ever considered that social media is engineered by true introverts often working in their mothers basement? What as Jeff Atwood one of the leading social media Guru's says what can possibly go wrong with that?) The reason we are seeing such an increase in med students with post Graduate degrees in the sciences is that they are indeed becoming well rounded in Liberal Arts as undergrads but developing the necessary science skills as Grads. Much to the consternation of many on this board believing U of M lacks in STEM, the fact remains the very BEST Universities in the country are in fact Liberal Arts with strong science. U of M was one of those but somewhere along the line it was decided enrollment numbers were more important than quality education and EVERYTHING went south. Liberal Arts were gutted, Undergrad sciences were taught by adjuncts and Kink George decided it was more important to serve 14,000 students poorly rather than 9000 students well. As a result we lose many very talented students elsewhere, if they even come. The "twins" are a good example.....
horribilisfan8184
Well-known member
Given the tangent this thread has taken I'd be interested in following this discussion a little longer if PR would turn the conn over to his Dr. friend for direct discussion with TNT, with an eye toward returning to the OP!
horribilisfan8184 said:
I will mention that the WWAMI program offers 30 spots for Montana residents, not 20. That occurred quite awhile ago, but I don't know when. From a 2006 article: "A proposal will go before the Montana legislature to increase the yearly admission of Montana students to the UW medical school from 20 to 30."
"WWAMI is a medical school program, not a premedical program. Students who enter the program are enrolled in the University of Washington School of Medicine, and complete their Foundations Phase (18 months) of medical school in their home states. Foundations programs exist at University of Washington in Seattle, Gonzaga University, University of Wyoming in Laramie, University of Alaska in Anchorage, Montana State University in Bozeman, and the University of Idaho in Moscow. The curriculum is the same at each site and all exams are taken jointly online. The curriculum starts with 3 weeks of clinical immersion, followed by 7 blocks that integrate the basic and clinical sciences. Four threads (anatomy, pathology, pharmacology, and epidemiology) are woven into all 18 months. Clinical skills are taught at least one day per week throughout the Foundations Phase. "
From an article I found:
"In Summary
A master's degree is an investment in time and energy as well as money. Any decision to pursue an additional degree should be made seriously and not as a means to an end but as a part of the larger whole of who you are and where your career will take you.
Going directly to a medical program that will look at the big picture and evaluate your full potential and not eliminate you because of a bump in the academic road is a better financial investment, a better use of a students’ time, and gets you closer to your dream: becoming a physician."
https://www.trinityschoolofmedicine.org/blog/the-myth-of-the-masters-degree-in-medical-school-admission
