Good, Bad, and Ugly

[grizfan406]

Two comments, Sanders did not look 100% especially right after he wnet down with a cramp, they went over the top of him on the next play for a TD. He couldn't keep up with his man due to a lower leg tweak and not being 100%.

Secondly, I thought the play calling on our last possession was conservative to an infuriating degree. All we needed was a few more yards, our offense was rolling but we couldn't make a field goal try just a little bit easier. We ran the same plays that were working, I'll give him that, but no creativity. I would have liked a trick play on that last series and I certainly didn't want us to sit on our time outs, I say use one ore both and draw something up that is going to catch Poly off guard. We needed only 8-10 yards, plenty of clock left... I am pissed.

 

[brewskis]

Two comments, Sanders did not look 100% especially right after he wnet down with a cramp, they went over the top of him on the next play for a TD. He couldn't keep up with his man due to a lower leg tweak and not being 100%.

Secondly, I thought the play calling on our last possession was conservative to an infuriating degree. All we needed was a few more yards, our offense was rolling but we couldn't make a field goal try just a little bit easier. We ran the same plays that were working, I'll give him that, but no creativity. I would have liked a trick play on that last series and I certainly didn't want us to sit on our time outs, I say use one ore both and draw something up that is going to catch Poly off guard. We needed only 8-10 yards, plenty of clock left... I am pissed.

I would have liked to see us stay on the ground there as well. We were getting some push in the 4th, their bigs were gassed.

The difficult thing about this offense....is you can't necessarily just blame the play calling. Any of Stitts calls can result in a pass or a run, and the passes can go many places. So it's difficult to say where the blame rests.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[krammer]

this will not be a popular comment but is true,,,,kidder got hooked to the inside (lost out side shoulder leverage) on couple big gainers and then took poor angles to pursue the runner,,,,,thus safety help was needed...then bang, we get caught cheating up with safety and big play over the top.....it happens with the triple option, that is what they bank on.....I still think we played very well and will be fine....go griz....

 

[PlayerRep]

Hey, where is that big mouth fraud Bison fan, Yeager?

I'm the big mouth? Look in the mirror lately? And I am not a liar, but go ahead and call me one if it makes you feel better.

Impressive resume you have there. I see one thing that is missing; coaching. Playing is much different than coaching, so I see how you are struggling to understand how I agreed with HHB that the triple option presents more challenges for the safeties than the EWU offense. Whatever, I guess my defense would look different than yours. Maybe you should bring this conversation to the Griz coaches meeting so they handle the triple option a little better next time.

I did play in college. Started for three years. Not at the D-1 level, but most people on here would agree that you don't play a lower level because you don't know as much, but because I was not big or fast enough for the next level.

You forgot one thing on your resume; name-dropper. I bet the coaches that you know really discuss a lot of game planning with you. Let me play this game. I am friends with Carson Wentz's brother, therefore I know the Eagles game plan against the Steelers. You are correct, that does feel good to say that.

Anyway, thanks for being you. I love reading your stuff. Big fan.

You keep wanting to have a different discussion than what we were having, and attribute statements to HHH that he didn't say. The topic was pass defense for safeties--CP's triple option offense. There is no way that EWU's passing offense doesn't place more pressure on safeties than CP's passing offense. I have heard the UM defensive coaches talk specifically about the tremendous problems that EWU's passing offense, great receivers including Kupp, and accurate qb's. I have talked to past UM safeties about this very subject.

With 16 coaches in the greater family, it's not necessary to have coached (above kid's football) to have learned a lot about the game from the coaching aspect. You, yourself, attributed your knowledge to your dad being a coach. So it helps you, but not me?

Don't know what you're talking about regarding my defense and taking my defense to the coaches. I never said or insinuated anything about a defense or my defense against the triple option, other than discipline. So, there is more lack of honesty from you.

As I keep saying, the key to good pass defense against the triple option is using your keys on every play and being 100% disciplined. Discipline is always critical in playing pass defense in the secondary.

 

[UMcheer2000]

this will not be a popular comment but is true,,,,kidder got hooked to the inside (lost out side shoulder leverage) on couple big gainers and then took poor angles to pursue the runner,,,,,thus safety help was needed...then bang, we get caught cheating up with safety and big play over the top.....it happens with the triple option, that is what they bank on.....I still think we played very well and will be fine....go griz....

I inferred to this and got insulted. Oh well ..

 

[citygriz]

Basically, we gifted these guys four touches--two on turnovers, two on blown coverages. That's 28 points to a very good team on their home field in blistering heat--and still we came within a point, and coulda/shoulda won it. Funny thing is, given how well our offense played, I'm almost happier with this game than I was in the N. Iowa victory, where I thought our entire offense stunk, and we won partly on the inept passing of our opponent.

Two issues going forward.

Is Gustafson an NFL-caliber QB? Given Wentz's success, Brady is gonna get looks.

Would like to know time-of-possession. The Stitt offense is supposed to wear out the opponent's defense. But in the NFL, Chip Kelly's hurry-up has had the opposite effect, of wearing out his own defense. An issue to keep an eye on.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Hey, where is that big mouth fraud Bison fan, Yeager?

I'm the big mouth? Look in the mirror lately? And I am not a liar, but go ahead and call me one if it makes you feel better.

Impressive resume you have there. I see one thing that is missing; coaching. Playing is much different than coaching, so I see how you are struggling to understand how I agreed with HHB that the triple option presents more challenges for the safeties than the EWU offense. Whatever, I guess my defense would look different than yours. Maybe you should bring this conversation to the Griz coaches meeting so they handle the triple option a little better next time.

I did play in college. Started for three years. Not at the D-1 level, but most people on here would agree that you don't play a lower level because you don't know as much, but because I was not big or fast enough for the next level.

You forgot one thing on your resume; name-dropper. I bet the coaches that you know really discuss a lot of game planning with you. Let me play this game. I am friends with Carson Wentz's brother, therefore I know the Eagles game plan against the Steelers. You are correct, that does feel good to say that.

Anyway, thanks for being you. I love reading your stuff. Big fan.

You keep wanting to have a different discussion than what we were having, and attribute statements to HHH that he didn't say. The topic was pass defense for safeties--CP's triple option offense. There is no way that EWU's passing offense doesn't place more pressure on safeties than CP's passing offense. I have heard the UM defensive coaches talk specifically about the tremendous problems that EWU's passing offense, great receivers including Kupp, and accurate qb's. I have talked to past UM safeties about this very subject.

Actually, yeager is having the exact same discussion I was having. It seems that you made it a different discussion. The point was that EWU puts DIFFERENT pressure on the safeties in the passing game than does Poly. But please, carry on.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Is Gustafson an NFL-caliber QB?

NO. BG is nothing like Wentz and it is not even close.

 

[Ursus1]

Is Gustafson an NFL-caliber QB?

NO. BG is nothing like Wentz and it is not even close.

He isn't even close to CFL...

 

[PlayerRep]

Hey, where is that big mouth fraud Bison fan, Yeager?

I'm the big mouth? Look in the mirror lately? And I am not a liar, but go ahead and call me one if it makes you feel better.

Impressive resume you have there. I see one thing that is missing; coaching. Playing is much different than coaching, so I see how you are struggling to understand how I agreed with HHB that the triple option presents more challenges for the safeties than the EWU offense. Whatever, I guess my defense would look different than yours. Maybe you should bring this conversation to the Griz coaches meeting so they handle the triple option a little better next time.

I did play in college. Started for three years. Not at the D-1 level, but most people on here would agree that you don't play a lower level because you don't know as much, but because I was not big or fast enough for the next level.

You forgot one thing on your resume; name-dropper. I bet the coaches that you know really discuss a lot of game planning with you. Let me play this game. I am friends with Carson Wentz's brother, therefore I know the Eagles game plan against the Steelers. You are correct, that does feel good to say that.

Anyway, thanks for being you. I love reading your stuff. Big fan.

You keep wanting to have a different discussion than what we were having, and attribute statements to HHH that he didn't say. The topic was pass defense for safeties--CP's triple option offense. There is no way that EWU's passing offense doesn't place more pressure on safeties than CP's passing offense. I have heard the UM defensive coaches talk specifically about the tremendous problems that EWU's passing offense, great receivers including Kupp, and accurate qb's. I have talked to past UM safeties about this very subject.

Actually, yeager is having the exact same discussion I was having. It seems that you made it a different discussion. The point was that EWU puts DIFFERENT pressure on the safeties in the passing game than does Poly. But please, carry on.

Nope, yeager said the triple option puts significant pressure on the safeties, not that it just puts pressure on the safeties in the passing game. And the passing game was the discussion being had, not defending the triple option. In any event, both of you are wrong. EWU in recent years has been a much tougher on the pass defenders than CP's passing offense.

One would think that a Bison fan would have noticed what EWU did to the Bison a few weeks ago. 450 yards of passing for 4 TD's. 26-41 passing with 3 picks (lucky or good for NDSU, or they would have lost). EWU averaged 17.3 yards per completion. 5 receivers had receptions over 34 yards. 556 yards of total offense by EWU.

It is very difficult for safeties to get to the sidelines when their go is going there, and it's easy to get faked a bit when the receiver is going long down the middle. EWU's great receivers really stretch the field.

It is almost a joke that a Bison fan would be more concerned about CP pass defense than defending EWU's passes, when the Bison got torched that badly.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

I'm the big mouth? Look in the mirror lately? And I am not a liar, but go ahead and call me one if it makes you feel better.

Impressive resume you have there. I see one thing that is missing; coaching. Playing is much different than coaching, so I see how you are struggling to understand how I agreed with HHB that the triple option presents more challenges for the safeties than the EWU offense. Whatever, I guess my defense would look different than yours. Maybe you should bring this conversation to the Griz coaches meeting so they handle the triple option a little better next time.

I did play in college. Started for three years. Not at the D-1 level, but most people on here would agree that you don't play a lower level because you don't know as much, but because I was not big or fast enough for the next level.

You forgot one thing on your resume; name-dropper. I bet the coaches that you know really discuss a lot of game planning with you. Let me play this game. I am friends with Carson Wentz's brother, therefore I know the Eagles game plan against the Steelers. You are correct, that does feel good to say that.

Anyway, thanks for being you. I love reading your stuff. Big fan.

You keep wanting to have a different discussion than what we were having, and attribute statements to HHH that he didn't say. The topic was pass defense for safeties--CP's triple option offense. There is no way that EWU's passing offense doesn't place more pressure on safeties than CP's passing offense. I have heard the UM defensive coaches talk specifically about the tremendous problems that EWU's passing offense, great receivers including Kupp, and accurate qb's. I have talked to past UM safeties about this very subject.

Actually, yeager is having the exact same discussion I was having. It seems that you made it a different discussion. The point was that EWU puts DIFFERENT pressure on the safeties in the passing game than does Poly. But please, carry on.

Nope, yeager said the triple option puts significant pressure on the safeties, not that it just puts pressure on the safeties in the passing game. And the passing game was the discussion being had, not defending the triple option. In any event, both of you are wrong. EWU in recent years has been a much tougher on the pass defenders than CP's passing offense.

And I agree. Take a minute and think about why the pressure on the safeties is different.

 

[daGrizJ]

From my observation, CP is one hell of a football team. They found out early the dive was not the best option because of our D line so they went to the edges and sealed off the DBs and LBs with some of the best blocking I have seen in a long time. We could not contain the edges so the safeties were needed to come up to close it off. On the first wide open TD the DB fell down, on the Sanders TD he could not cover because of the leg cramp, on the FB TD he slipped out of the backfield late while the QB was scrambling for his life to the left. I don't see how any of those could have been stopped. On top of that, on all three plays the QB was being harassed and a split second away from being sacked. I was surprised he even got the ball away. I can not remember a game we have played against a triple option team when we were not burned once or twice on deep balls. It's the nature of the beast. Even with all of that, we were about a foot right of winning.

 

[PlayerRep]

You keep wanting to have a different discussion than what we were having, and attribute statements to HHH that he didn't say. The topic was pass defense for safeties--CP's triple option offense. There is no way that EWU's passing offense doesn't place more pressure on safeties than CP's passing offense. I have heard the UM defensive coaches talk specifically about the tremendous problems that EWU's passing offense, great receivers including Kupp, and accurate qb's. I have talked to past UM safeties about this very subject.

Actually, yeager is having the exact same discussion I was having. It seems that you made it a different discussion. The point was that EWU puts DIFFERENT pressure on the safeties in the passing game than does Poly. But please, carry on.

Nope, yeager said the triple option puts significant pressure on the safeties, not that it just puts pressure on the safeties in the passing game. And the passing game was the discussion being had, not defending the triple option. In any event, both of you are wrong. EWU in recent years has been a much tougher on the pass defenders than CP's passing offense.

And I agree. Take a minute and think about why the pressure on the safeties is different.

I don't have to think about it. I've played against the triple option and similar offenses. It takes primarily discipline to defend against the pass against running and triple option teams. Generally, their receivers are not as good, fast or athletic as passing teams. It's not hard to defend them. You just can't fall asleep, or get lulled to sleep. Defending against the EWU receivers and offense is very difficult. They are very good, fast, athletic and some are tall. They are also good at running routes, and the qb is good at getting them the ball at the right time. Discipline does not win the day with EWU quality receivers like it does with most triple option teams. They are just too good and athletic, and even if they don't get some separation with their fake/move, they run away from defenders and go up and get the ball. You're also defending 50 or 60 passes. It's killer hard. And for safeties, they are running away from you when they go towards the sideline and have huge speed when they are going vertical.

 

[PlayerRep]

From my observation, CP is one hell of a football team. They found out early the dive was not the best option because of our D line so they went to the edges and sealed off the DBs and LBs with some of the best blocking I have seen in a long time. We could not contain the edges so the safeties were needed to come up to close it off. On the first wide open TD the DB fell down, on the Sanders TD he could not cover because of the leg cramp, on the FB TD he slipped out of the backfield late while the QB was scrambling for his life to the left. I don't see how any of those could have been stopped. On top of that, on all three plays the QB was being harassed and a split second away from being sacked. I was surprised he even got the ball away. I can not remember a game we have played against a triple option team when we were not burned once or twice on deep balls. It's the nature of the beast. Even with all of that, we were about a foot right of winning.

Sanders got beat because he made a huge mistake, not because he had had a cramp earlier.

And, if it's a pass play, the safeties are not needed to defend the edge. That's the key. The safety has to stay with his man/pass defense until he knows for sure that it's not a pass.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Actually, yeager is having the exact same discussion I was having. It seems that you made it a different discussion. The point was that EWU puts DIFFERENT pressure on the safeties in the passing game than does Poly. But please, carry on.

Nope, yeager said the triple option puts significant pressure on the safeties, not that it just puts pressure on the safeties in the passing game. And the passing game was the discussion being had, not defending the triple option. In any event, both of you are wrong. EWU in recent years has been a much tougher on the pass defenders than CP's passing offense.

And I agree. Take a minute and think about why the pressure on the safeties is different.

Generally, their receivers are not as good, fast or athletic as passing teams.

You really think that Poly doesn't have players as fast or as athletic as EWU? This is not Dartmouth in the 60's? :roll:

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

From my observation, CP is one hell of a football team. They found out early the dive was not the best option because of our D line so they went to the edges and sealed off the DBs and LBs with some of the best blocking I have seen in a long time. We could not contain the edges so the safeties were needed to come up to close it off. On the first wide open TD the DB fell down, on the Sanders TD he could not cover because of the leg cramp, on the FB TD he slipped out of the backfield late while the QB was scrambling for his life to the left. I don't see how any of those could have been stopped. On top of that, on all three plays the QB was being harassed and a split second away from being sacked. I was surprised he even got the ball away. I can not remember a game we have played against a triple option team when we were not burned once or twice on deep balls. It's the nature of the beast. Even with all of that, we were about a foot right of winning.

Sanders got beat because he made a huge mistake, not because he had had a cramp earlier.

And, if it's a pass play, the safeties are not needed to defend the edge. That's the key. The safety has to stay with his man/pass defense until he knows for sure that it's not a pass.

No shit sherlock, but that is part of what puts more pressure on the Safeties when reading what Poly does compared to what EWU does. It is not rocket science to figure that out.

 

[yeager_fan]

From my observation, CP is one hell of a football team. They found out early the dive was not the best option because of our D line so they went to the edges and sealed off the DBs and LBs with some of the best blocking I have seen in a long time. We could not contain the edges so the safeties were needed to come up to close it off. On the first wide open TD the DB fell down, on the Sanders TD he could not cover because of the leg cramp, on the FB TD he slipped out of the backfield late while the QB was scrambling for his life to the left. I don't see how any of those could have been stopped. On top of that, on all three plays the QB was being harassed and a split second away from being sacked. I was surprised he even got the ball away. I can not remember a game we have played against a triple option team when we were not burned once or twice on deep balls. It's the nature of the beast. Even with all of that, we were about a foot right of winning.

Sanders got beat because he made a huge mistake, not because he had had a cramp earlier.

And, if it's a pass play, the safeties are not needed to defend the edge. That's the key. The safety has to stay with his man/pass defense until he knows for sure that it's not a pass.

No shit sherlock, but that is part of what puts more pressure on the Safeties when reading what Poly does compared to what EWU does. It is not rocket science to figure that out.

Agreed. Way tougher for a safety to play the triple option well than it is to defend a spread offense such as EWU.

 

[daGrizJ]

From my observation, CP is one hell of a football team. They found out early the dive was not the best option because of our D line so they went to the edges and sealed off the DBs and LBs with some of the best blocking I have seen in a long time. We could not contain the edges so the safeties were needed to come up to close it off. On the first wide open TD the DB fell down, on the Sanders TD he could not cover because of the leg cramp, on the FB TD he slipped out of the backfield late while the QB was scrambling for his life to the left. I don't see how any of those could have been stopped. On top of that, on all three plays the QB was being harassed and a split second away from being sacked. I was surprised he even got the ball away. I can not remember a game we have played against a triple option team when we were not burned once or twice on deep balls. It's the nature of the beast. Even with all of that, we were about a foot right of winning.

Sanders got beat because he made a huge mistake, not because he had had a cramp earlier.

And, if it's a pass play, the safeties are not needed to defend the edge. That's the key. The safety has to stay with his man/pass defense until he knows for sure that it's not a pass.

No shit sherlock, but that is part of what puts more pressure on the Safeties when reading what Poly does compared to what EWU does. It is not rocket science to figure that out.[/quote

Ok, Hot Shot, so now you are the team trainer and know for a fact that a cramp was not part of the issue and it was just "a huge mistake". And that CP was gaining 5 to 10 yards on every run to the edge with outstanding blocking so there was no need for safety help, even though, none of the passes were "pass plays". They all came off some sort of option run, which was shut off by the D and the QB was improvising.

 

[EverettGriz]

daJ, you've obviously never trainered the game.

 

[bgbigdog]

From my observation, CP is one hell of a football team. They found out early the dive was not the best option because of our D line so they went to the edges and sealed off the DBs and LBs with some of the best blocking I have seen in a long time. We could not contain the edges so the safeties were needed to come up to close it off. On the first wide open TD the DB fell down, on the Sanders TD he could not cover because of the leg cramp, on the FB TD he slipped out of the backfield late while the QB was scrambling for his life to the left. I don't see how any of those could have been stopped. On top of that, on all three plays the QB was being harassed and a split second away from being sacked. I was surprised he even got the ball away. I can not remember a game we have played against a triple option team when we were not burned once or twice on deep balls. It's the nature of the beast. Even with all of that, we were about a foot right of winning.

Sanders got beat because he made a huge mistake, not because he had had a cramp earlier.

And, if it's a pass play, the safeties are not needed to defend the edge. That's the key. The safety has to stay with his man/pass defense until he knows for sure that it's not a pass.

You may want to watch the replay one more time. Sanders had just replaced Strong who was injured the play prior. He was singled on Lewis, nine yards off the receiver, back peddled three or four steps and turned to run with him. He didn't bite on the play fake, he simply didn't have it to run with Lewis. It may be that even healthy, he's still not able to run with Lewis who did the same thing USDSU the week prior. What huge mistake are you referring to?