Good, Bad, and Ugly

[SoldierGriz]

You'd think, if Triple Option were that formidable of an offense, we'd be using it, or at least more coaches would be using it.

It's formidable because more coaches DO NOT use it...it's now an outlier.

I guarantee every coach in the ACC with Ga Tech on their schedule goes through the same thing. Pain in the ass to prepare for it because it is rare.

Navy

Yep.

 

[PlayerRep]

Note that UM coaches have called our secondary an FBS secondary. I think UM should be compared to Nevada not the Univ of San Deigo.

Than maybe they should play like it. The results seem to suggest that they are no Nevada.

Yes, I agree. I believe the UM secondary and pass defense should be up there with or closer to Nevada. I don't think they should be just below U of San Diego.

You seem to want to make excuses for the pass defense (and compare them to San Diego) because the triple option is hard to defend. It is hard to defend, but I don't think the passing portion of the triple option is nearly as hard to defend (think discipline; don't make mental mistakes), and not as hard to defend as the EWU passing offense when it has great receivers and a great qb.

Anyway, good discussion overall. I had a high degree of confidence in my views in this area, because I had played d-back in college (including against option/play-action teams), I still follow secondary play, and, as I said, I had talked coaches and players in the past about how hard it is, especially for the safeties, to defend against EWU's top receivers.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Note that UM coaches have called our secondary an FBS secondary. I think UM should be compared to Nevada not the Univ of San Deigo.

Than maybe they should play like it. The results seem to suggest that they are no Nevada.

Yes, I agree. I believe the UM secondary and pass defense should be up there with or closer to Nevada. I don't think they should be just below U of San Diego.

You seem to want to make excuses for the pass defense (and compare them to San Diego) because the triple option is hard to defend. It is hard to defend, but I don't think the passing portion of the triple option is nearly as hard to defend (think discipline; don't make mental mistakes), and not as hard to defend as the EWU passing offense when it has great receivers and a great qb.

Anyway, good discussion overall. I had a high degree of confidence in my views in this area, because I had played d-back in college (including against option/play-action teams), I still follow secondary play, and, as I said, I had talked coaches and players in the past about how hard it is, especially for the safeties, to defend against EWU's top receivers.

Not looking to make any excuses. You actually agree with me. I am not saying one way or the other whether defending a pass is easier or harder based on whether you are playing EWU or Poly. What everyone has stated, including you, is there is more pressure on the Safeties to read pass against Poly than against EWU. What makes Poly so effective when they throw, the deception basis of their passing offense.

 

[EverettGriz]

You'd think, if Triple Option were that formidable of an offense, we'd be using it, or at least more coaches would be using it.

Being a super model is a great way to make a crapload of money as well. You'd think more women would do that.

 

[rocklobster]

The Griz will need a better game this week against SUU. Right now EWU, SUU and Cal Poly have to be the top 3 teams in the Big Sky.

I have more confidence in the Griz after yesterday than I did after either of the first 2 games. We just have to see if the offense can play with the same consistency.

Exactly how I feel, Helena.

:thumb:

 

[rocklobster]

You'd think, if Triple Option were that formidable of an offense, we'd be using it, or at least more coaches would be using it.

Being a super model is a great way to make a crapload of money as well. You'd think more women would do that.

:thumb:

 

[PlayerRep]

Note that UM coaches have called our secondary an FBS secondary. I think UM should be compared to Nevada not the Univ of San Deigo.

Than maybe they should play like it. The results seem to suggest that they are no Nevada.

Yes, I agree. I believe the UM secondary and pass defense should be up there with or closer to Nevada. I don't think they should be just below U of San Diego.

You seem to want to make excuses for the pass defense (and compare them to San Diego) because the triple option is hard to defend. It is hard to defend, but I don't think the passing portion of the triple option is nearly as hard to defend (think discipline; don't make mental mistakes), and not as hard to defend as the EWU passing offense when it has great receivers and a great qb.

Anyway, good discussion overall. I had a high degree of confidence in my views in this area, because I had played d-back in college (including against option/play-action teams), I still follow secondary play, and, as I said, I had talked coaches and players in the past about how hard it is, especially for the safeties, to defend against EWU's top receivers.

Not looking to make any excuses. You actually agree with me. I am not saying one way or the other whether defending a pass is easier or harder based on whether you are playing EWU or Poly. What everyone has stated, including you, is there is more pressure on the Safeties to read pass against Poly than against EWU. What makes Poly so effective when they throw, the deception basis of their passing offense.

No, I didn't say that that there is more pressure on safeties to read pass against Poly than against EWU. If you are in man coverage, against any team, you stick with your man until you are damn sure it's not a pass. In zone, it's the same thing, except that you can look at the play instead of focusing on the receiver. If you are in man or have deep zone coverage, your first priority is pass--not helping with the run. Discipline.

Part of the reason that our corners had almost no tackles and our safeties other than Strong had few tackles, is because they were playing pass coverage and CP receivers were just running them out of the play (which is completely easy to do in man).

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

You are right PR. Safety responsibility is exactly the same whether playing pass first EWU or run first Poly. You win. I even think they play the same scheme for both.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Part of the reason that our corners had almost no tackles and our safeties other than Strong had few tackles, is because they were playing pass coverage and CP receivers were just running them out of the play (which is completely easy to do in man).

So are you saying that Strong, the guy that led the team in tackles, will have the same pressure in the passing game against EWU as he did against Poly? The discussion was about the safeties not just a safety.

 

[PlayerRep]

You are right PR. Safety responsibility is exactly the same whether playing pass first EWU or run first Poly. You win. I even think they play the same scheme for both.

Please stop with your silly stuff. If you want to have a discussion, just stick to what I said. If you don't understand something, ask.

Safety responsibility, in man or in deep zone, is always to focus on pass first, whether it is EWU or CP. The reasons are: the coach says so; if you let a receiver get behind you, he'll score a TD if the qb hits him; there are other players in position to stop the run, at least at some point. Once the safety, in man or deep zone, knows, for sure, that there won't be a pass, then and only then can the safety move to stopping the run.

This has nothing to do with scheme. It's just a fact of defense in football. A safety just can't leave his pass responsibility to look at the play or help with the run, until he knows there is no possibility of a pass. The name of the game is to try make this determination accurately as fast as possible.

 

[PlayerRep]

Part of the reason that our corners had almost no tackles and our safeties other than Strong had few tackles, is because they were playing pass coverage and CP receivers were just running them out of the play (which is completely easy to do in man).

So are you saying that Strong, the guy that led the team in tackles, will have the same pressure in the passing game against EWU as he did against Poly? The discussion was about the safeties not just a safety.

He tied for the lead in tackles, with 11. While I did not watch Strong on every play, I believe he will have much more passing game pressure in the EWU game. Against CP, he was often brought forward to help stop the run and as such would often not have had the same deep pass responsibility. That's why he made so many tackles. He was closer to the line of scrimmage and, as instructed by the coaches and with his keys, he was involved earlier in run support.

 

[PlayerRep]

Just talked to a recent former starting Griz safety, who has played against both EWU and CP multiple times. He said it is way harder to pass defend EWU. And then volunteered that EWU has some great athletes at receiver.

 

[yeager_fan]

You are right PR. Safety responsibility is exactly the same whether playing pass first EWU or run first Poly. You win. I even think they play the same scheme for both.

Please stop with your silly stuff. If you want to have a discussion, just stick to what I said. If you don't understand something, ask.

Safety responsibility, in man or in deep zone, is always to focus on pass first, whether it is EWU or CP. The reasons are: the coach says so; if you let a receiver get behind you, he'll score a TD if the qb hits him; there are other players in position to stop the run, at least at some point. Once the safety, in man or deep zone, knows, for sure, that there won't be a pass, then and only then can the safety move to stopping the run.

This has nothing to do with scheme. It's just a fact of defense in football. A safety just can't leave his pass responsibility to look at the play or help with the run, until he knows there is no possibility of a pass. The name of the game is to try make this determination accurately as fast as possible.

Have you ever thought of putting on some clinics?

 

[PlayerRep]

You are right PR. Safety responsibility is exactly the same whether playing pass first EWU or run first Poly. You win. I even think they play the same scheme for both.

Please stop with your silly stuff. If you want to have a discussion, just stick to what I said. If you don't understand something, ask.

Safety responsibility, in man or in deep zone, is always to focus on pass first, whether it is EWU or CP. The reasons are: the coach says so; if you let a receiver get behind you, he'll score a TD if the qb hits him; there are other players in position to stop the run, at least at some point. Once the safety, in man or deep zone, knows, for sure, that there won't be a pass, then and only then can the safety move to stopping the run.

This has nothing to do with scheme. It's just a fact of defense in football. A safety just can't leave his pass responsibility to look at the play or help with the run, until he knows there is no possibility of a pass. The name of the game is to try make this determination accurately as fast as possible.

Have you ever thought of putting on some clinics?

Have you ever thought about getting out of coaching, or stopping the pretense?

You don't follow the Griz closely, you aren't a Griz fan, you didn't watch the last game, and then you jumped up to support one of the least knowledgeable posters on egriz. Then, you got completely schooled. If I were you, I would not come back to egriz or change names. Your credibility is shot. The former Griz safety laughed out loud at your view. Did you even watch the EWU passing offense torch the Bison?

 

[yeager_fan]

You are right PR. Safety responsibility is exactly the same whether playing pass first EWU or run first Poly. You win. I even think they play the same scheme for both.

Please stop with your silly stuff. If you want to have a discussion, just stick to what I said. If you don't understand something, ask.

Safety responsibility, in man or in deep zone, is always to focus on pass first, whether it is EWU or CP. The reasons are: the coach says so; if you let a receiver get behind you, he'll score a TD if the qb hits him; there are other players in position to stop the run, at least at some point. Once the safety, in man or deep zone, knows, for sure, that there won't be a pass, then and only then can the safety move to stopping the run.

This has nothing to do with scheme. It's just a fact of defense in football. A safety just can't leave his pass responsibility to look at the play or help with the run, until he knows there is no possibility of a pass. The name of the game is to try make this determination accurately as fast as possible.

Have you ever thought of putting on some clinics?

Have you ever thought about getting out of coaching, or stopping the pretense?

You don't follow the Griz closely, you aren't a Griz fan, you didn't watch the last game, and then you jumped up to support one of the least knowledgeable posters on egriz. Then, you got completely schooled. If I were you, I would not come back to egriz or change names. Your credibility is shot. The former Griz safety laughed out loud at your view. Did you even watch the EWU passing offense torch the Bison?

So no clinic? Your experience in coaching youth football could really be valuable to some. Maybe your former Griz safety could come help. Who is it, Torrey Thomas?

Do you think I care if I have credibility on egriz? I just come on her to get some insight on how to keep the triple option under 500 total yards per game.

 

[PlayerRep]

Please stop with your silly stuff. If you want to have a discussion, just stick to what I said. If you don't understand something, ask.

Safety responsibility, in man or in deep zone, is always to focus on pass first, whether it is EWU or CP. The reasons are: the coach says so; if you let a receiver get behind you, he'll score a TD if the qb hits him; there are other players in position to stop the run, at least at some point. Once the safety, in man or deep zone, knows, for sure, that there won't be a pass, then and only then can the safety move to stopping the run.

This has nothing to do with scheme. It's just a fact of defense in football. A safety just can't leave his pass responsibility to look at the play or help with the run, until he knows there is no possibility of a pass. The name of the game is to try make this determination accurately as fast as possible.

Have you ever thought of putting on some clinics?

Have you ever thought about getting out of coaching, or stopping the pretense?

You don't follow the Griz closely, you aren't a Griz fan, you didn't watch the last game, and then you jumped up to support one of the least knowledgeable posters on egriz. Then, you got completely schooled. If I were you, I would not come back to egriz or change names. Your credibility is shot. The former Griz safety laughed out loud at your view. Did you even watch the EWU passing offense torch the Bison?

So no clinic? Your experience in coaching youth football could really be valuable to some. Maybe your former Griz safety could come help. Who is it, Torrey Thomas?

Do you think I care if I have credibility on egriz? I just come on her to get some insight on how to keep the triple option under 500 total yards per game.

Have your junior teams won many games?

What's the largest crowed you ever played in front of? How games on tv?

 

[yeager_fan]

Have you ever thought of putting on some clinics?

Have you ever thought about getting out of coaching, or stopping the pretense?

You don't follow the Griz closely, you aren't a Griz fan, you didn't watch the last game, and then you jumped up to support one of the least knowledgeable posters on egriz. Then, you got completely schooled. If I were you, I would not come back to egriz or change names. Your credibility is shot. The former Griz safety laughed out loud at your view. Did you even watch the EWU passing offense torch the Bison?

So no clinic? Your experience in coaching youth football could really be valuable to some. Maybe your former Griz safety could come help. Who is it, Torrey Thomas?

Do you think I care if I have credibility on egriz? I just come on her to get some insight on how to keep the triple option under 500 total yards per game.

Have your junior teams won many games?

What's the largest crowed you ever played in front of? How games on tv?

I have a feeling that former safety wasn't laughing with you, he was laughing at you.

 

[Umista]

Re: Good, Bad and Ugly


From the know it all blather and the name calling...one needs to feel great about not sitting next to "one" during the game.

 

[IntuitiveGriz]

From my observation, CP is one hell of a football team. They found out early the dive was not the best option because of our D line so they went to the edges and sealed off the DBs and LBs with some of the best blocking I have seen in a long time. We could not contain the edges so the safeties were needed to come up to close it off. On the first wide open TD the DB fell down, on the Sanders TD he could not cover because of the leg cramp, on the FB TD he slipped out of the backfield late while the QB was scrambling for his life to the left. I don't see how any of those could have been stopped. On top of that, on all three plays the QB was being harassed and a split second away from being sacked. I was surprised he even got the ball away. I can not remember a game we have played against a triple option team when we were not burned once or twice on deep balls. It's the nature of the beast. Even with all of that, we were about a foot right of winning.

Sanders got beat because he made a huge mistake, not because he had had a cramp earlier.

And, if it's a pass play, the safeties are not needed to defend the edge. That's the key. The safety has to stay with his man/pass defense until he knows for sure that it's not a pass.

I agree with you, PlayerRep, on the fact that Sanders getting beat had nothing to do with a previous cramp. That is comical, sweet Jesus. Cal Poly simply (and by design) lined up their fastest receiver (player on their team) on Sanders, and attacked him (sprinted right at him) with lightening, something he couldn't athletically handle. This is very common practice for an offensive coordinator when he wants 7... your fastest receiver can torch a big safety 9 out of 10 times. They simply just run by them (previous cramp or not). Speed kills.

daGriz, on the Cal Poly FB TD, the FB didn't "slip out of the backfield late". He was the dive man, no one touched him when he ran into the LOS without the pigksin, so he continued running wide open straight up the field. The Offensive Coordinator noticed this on the previous play, so the subsequent TD was a great planned call.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Just talked to a recent former starting Griz safety, who has played against both EWU and CP multiple times. He said it is way harder to pass defend EWU. And then volunteered that EWU has some great athletes at receiver.

Like any average lawyer, I am sure you only presented a witness that supports your argument.