maybe transferring players thought...

[PlayerRep]

Okay, I was a Stitt guy. Still am. So let's look at some facts.

When Hauck took over the program, his predecessors, Dennehy and Glenn, had a combined winning record of 81%. Hauck inherited the proverbial "keys to the Cadillac." Glenn had won one national championship, and come oh-so-close against Georgia Southern in another chipper. (A game that still pisses me off, because we had them on the ropes and let them off through stupid play-calling.) Yes, Hauck got us to the chipper twice, but never won a national championship.

When Stitt took over the program, his predecessors, Pflugrad and Delany, had a combined winning percentage of 64%. So this was no longer a Cadillac. A Nissan, maybe.

Plus Stitt inherited the "Missoula" problem, one of the ugliest chapters in the history of Montana athletics, a problem caused at least in PART by the players Hauck recruited to the Montana program. Until Hauck has continued Stitt's legacy of running a clean program, that taint will remain with Hauck.

I wasn't happy about losing to the Bobcats, but I liked Stitt's recruiting; liked the fact he ran a squeaky clean program; and felt that in any event, a coach deserves four years, for his recruits to be fully implemented into the program.

As most of you know, I remember the basketball tradition at Montana, where Travis DeCuire is putting together a program we can really be proud of--not against second-tier, PONY league competition, but against the best of the best, where we were competitive against a team that went to the championship game of National Association of Big Boys.

So for all you Hauck fans out there, let me just ask one favor of you: Don't put us through the "Missoula" embarrassment again, okay?

Some reactions, corrections and disagreements.

Hauck took UM to the national championship 3 times, not 2 times. And to the semis 4 out of his 7 years.

If by the "Missoula" problem, you mean the Krakauer book and sexual assault, note that only one Hauck recruit, Donaldson, was involved in sexual assault, and that came out several years after Hauck had left for UNLV. Hauck is not even mentioned in Krakauer's book.

Given the various stuff that occurred while Stitt was in Missoula, don't know how you can say his program was "squeaky clean". Players got into various trouble, just like they do most everywhere. Dui's, assault/fight arrests, the house break-in (the one under construction, where they were charged with felonies), the WSU fight (which caused bad press, a two-game suspension, recommendations of a felony charge, but fortunately nothing has come of it). I blame none of this on Stitt, but it occurred.

As I have pointed out many times, Stitt inherited a team that had gone to the playoffs 2 years in a row, beaten the Cats 2 years in a row, and been ranked nos. 12 and 8 in post-season polls. Yes, not quite up there with what Hauck inherited, but far above not being ranked in the top 30, losing the Cats 2 years in a row, and not making the playoffs 2 years in a row. The team was not improving; it was declining. So was attendance.

And I got 67% for the combined records of Delaney/Pflu. Not 64. Maybe I goofed up.

 

[argh!]

And I got 67% for the combined records of Delaney/Pflu. Not 64. Maybe I goofed up.

does that include the 5 vacated wins due to using ineligible players(bqm)

 

[argh!]

Given the various stuff that occurred while Stitt was in Missoula, don't know how you can say his program was "squeaky clean".

i think ci-tay was referring to the rapid actions taken when a football player did screw up, or was accused of it. or maybe the adult behavior stitt exhibited, versus the not-talking-to-the-kaimin immature behavior hauck exhibited.

or maybe he was referring to stitt not giving boosters the kind of access to the program hauck did(bqm)

 

[citygriz]

Okay, I was a Stitt guy. Still am. So let's look at some facts.

When Hauck took over the program, his predecessors, Dennehy and Glenn, had a combined winning record of 81%. Hauck inherited the proverbial "keys to the Cadillac." Glenn had won one national championship, and come oh-so-close against Georgia Southern in another chipper. (A game that still pisses me off, because we had them on the ropes and let them off through stupid play-calling.) Yes, Hauck got us to the chipper twice, but never won a national championship.

When Stitt took over the program, his predecessors, Pflugrad and Delany, had a combined winning percentage of 64%. So this was no longer a Cadillac. A Nissan, maybe.

Plus Stitt inherited the "Missoula" problem, one of the ugliest chapters in the history of Montana athletics, a problem caused at least in PART by the players Hauck recruited to the Montana program. Until Hauck has continued Stitt's legacy of running a clean program, that taint will remain with Hauck.

I wasn't happy about losing to the Bobcats, but I liked Stitt's recruiting; liked the fact he ran a squeaky clean program; and felt that in any event, a coach deserves four years, for his recruits to be fully implemented into the program.

As most of you know, I remember the basketball tradition at Montana, where Travis DeCuire is putting together a program we can really be proud of--not against second-tier, PONY league competition, but against the best of the best, where we were competitive against a team that went to the championship game of National Association of Big Boys.

So for all you Hauck fans out there, let me just ask one favor of you: Don't put us through the "Missoula" embarrassment again, okay?

Some reactions, corrections and disagreements.

Hauck took UM to the national championship 3 times, not 2 times. And to the semis 4 out of his 7 years.

If by the "Missoula" problem, you mean the Krakauer book and sexual assault, note that only one Hauck recruit, Donaldson, was involved in sexual assault, and that came out several years after Hauck had left for UNLV. Hauck is not even mentioned in Krakauer's book.

Given the various stuff that occurred while Stitt was in Missoula, don't know how you can say his program was "squeaky clean". Players got into various trouble, just like they do most everywhere. Dui's, assault/fight arrests, the house break-in (the one under construction, where they were charged with felonies), the WSU fight (which caused bad press, a two-game suspension, recommendations of a felony charge, but fortunately nothing has come of it). I blame none of this on Stitt, but it occurred.

As I have pointed out many times, Stitt inherited a team that had gone to the playoffs 2 years in a row, beaten the Cats 2 years in a row, and been ranked nos. 12 and 8 in post-season polls. Yes, not quite up there with what Hauck inherited, but far above not being ranked in the top 30, losing the Cats 2 years in a row, and not making the playoffs 2 years in a row. The team was not improving; it was declining. So was attendance.

And I got 67% for the combined records of Delaney/Pflu. Not 64. Maybe I goofed up.

I stand corrected--three trips to the chipper, not two.

I do believe Dennehy and Pflugrad had a winning percentage of 64%--but that's not important.

I'd have to go back and read "Missoula" again. But while Donaldson was mentioned most prominently, the book was not about him alone, but many other cases of sexual abuse, including a gang rape, and a culture that not only covered it all up, but intimidated women who spoke out against it. I can tolerate DUI's, especially in Montana, and fights such the fight at WSU. Kids will be kids. But that's not what "Missoula" was about, and you know it. And that all primarily took place during Hauck's reign.

 

[PlayerRep]

Okay, I was a Stitt guy. Still am. So let's look at some facts.

When Hauck took over the program, his predecessors, Dennehy and Glenn, had a combined winning record of 81%. Hauck inherited the proverbial "keys to the Cadillac." Glenn had won one national championship, and come oh-so-close against Georgia Southern in another chipper. (A game that still pisses me off, because we had them on the ropes and let them off through stupid play-calling.) Yes, Hauck got us to the chipper twice, but never won a national championship.

When Stitt took over the program, his predecessors, Pflugrad and Delany, had a combined winning percentage of 64%. So this was no longer a Cadillac. A Nissan, maybe.

Plus Stitt inherited the "Missoula" problem, one of the ugliest chapters in the history of Montana athletics, a problem caused at least in PART by the players Hauck recruited to the Montana program. Until Hauck has continued Stitt's legacy of running a clean program, that taint will remain with Hauck.

I wasn't happy about losing to the Bobcats, but I liked Stitt's recruiting; liked the fact he ran a squeaky clean program; and felt that in any event, a coach deserves four years, for his recruits to be fully implemented into the program.

As most of you know, I remember the basketball tradition at Montana, where Travis DeCuire is putting together a program we can really be proud of--not against second-tier, PONY league competition, but against the best of the best, where we were competitive against a team that went to the championship game of National Association of Big Boys.

So for all you Hauck fans out there, let me just ask one favor of you: Don't put us through the "Missoula" embarrassment again, okay?

Some reactions, corrections and disagreements.

Hauck took UM to the national championship 3 times, not 2 times. And to the semis 4 out of his 7 years.

If by the "Missoula" problem, you mean the Krakauer book and sexual assault, note that only one Hauck recruit, Donaldson, was involved in sexual assault, and that came out several years after Hauck had left for UNLV. Hauck is not even mentioned in Krakauer's book.

Given the various stuff that occurred while Stitt was in Missoula, don't know how you can say his program was "squeaky clean". Players got into various trouble, just like they do most everywhere. Dui's, assault/fight arrests, the house break-in (the one under construction, where they were charged with felonies), the WSU fight (which caused bad press, a two-game suspension, recommendations of a felony charge, but fortunately nothing has come of it). I blame none of this on Stitt, but it occurred.

As I have pointed out many times, Stitt inherited a team that had gone to the playoffs 2 years in a row, beaten the Cats 2 years in a row, and been ranked nos. 12 and 8 in post-season polls. Yes, not quite up there with what Hauck inherited, but far above not being ranked in the top 30, losing the Cats 2 years in a row, and not making the playoffs 2 years in a row. The team was not improving; it was declining. So was attendance.

And I got 67% for the combined records of Delaney/Pflu. Not 64. Maybe I goofed up.

I stand corrected--three trips to the chipper, not two.

I do believe Dennehy and Pflugrad had a winning percentage of 64%--but that's not important.

I'd have to go back and read "Missoula" again. But while Donaldson was mentioned most prominently, the book was not about him alone, but many other cases of sexual abuse, including a gang rape, and a culture that not only covered it all up, but intimidated women who spoke out against it. I can tolerate DUI's, especially in Montana, and fights such the fight at WSU. Kids will be kids. But that's not what "Missoula" was about, and you know it. And that all primarily took place during Hauck's reign.

The "gang rape" was overblown. Not sure if it involved more than blow jobs, at least for some of those involved. The police were notified fairly quickly. Investigated and declined to prosecute. A year later, the police investigated again and declined to prosecute. The accuser had told police that the guys wouldn't have known she didn't consent. The accuser's female friend who was there wouldn't back up the accuser's story. No involved player who got a lawyer was "convicted" in the school proceeding or kicked out of school. In fact, the ones who went through the proceeding were acquitted and allowed to graduate. There was no cover up whatsoever.

In the Donaldson situation, there was zero coverup. The police were told and involved before the university or coaches were. In the JJ situation, O'Day reported to the matter to university promptly after it occurred and he learned about it. Zero coverup.

What's your basis for saying there was a culture to cover up? That's not supported by the facts. And intimidation? Where are you getting that from? I've never heard that.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

It is pretty simple really, Citay roots against the football program because he wants basketball to be King at UM.

 

[horribilisfan8184]

Okay, I was a Stitt guy. Still am. So let's look at some facts.

When Hauck took over the program, his predecessors, Dennehy and Glenn, had a combined winning record of 81%. Hauck inherited the proverbial "keys to the Cadillac." Glenn had won one national championship, and come oh-so-close against Georgia Southern in another chipper. (A game that still pisses me off, because we had them on the ropes and let them off through stupid play-calling.) Yes, Hauck got us to the chipper twice, but never won a national championship.

When Stitt took over the program, his predecessors, Pflugrad and Delany, had a combined winning percentage of 64%. So this was no longer a Cadillac. A Nissan, maybe.

Plus Stitt inherited the "Missoula" problem, one of the ugliest chapters in the history of Montana athletics, a problem caused at least in PART by the players Hauck recruited to the Montana program. Until Hauck has continued Stitt's legacy of running a clean program, that taint will remain with Hauck.

I wasn't happy about losing to the Bobcats, but I liked Stitt's recruiting; liked the fact he ran a squeaky clean program; and felt that in any event, a coach deserves four years, for his recruits to be fully implemented into the program.

As most of you know, I remember the basketball tradition at Montana, where Travis DeCuire is putting together a program we can really be proud of--not against second-tier, PONY league competition, but against the best of the best, where we were competitive against a team that went to the championship game of National Association of Big Boys.

So for all you Hauck fans out there, let me just ask one favor of you: Don't put us through the "Missoula" embarrassment again, okay?

Some reactions, corrections and disagreements.

Hauck took UM to the national championship 3 times, not 2 times. And to the semis 4 out of his 7 years.

If by the "Missoula" problem, you mean the Krakauer book and sexual assault, note that only one Hauck recruit, Donaldson, was involved in sexual assault, and that came out several years after Hauck had left for UNLV. Hauck is not even mentioned in Krakauer's book.

Given the various stuff that occurred while Stitt was in Missoula, don't know how you can say his program was "squeaky clean". Players got into various trouble, just like they do most everywhere. Dui's, assault/fight arrests, the house break-in (the one under construction, where they were charged with felonies), the WSU fight (which caused bad press, a two-game suspension, recommendations of a felony charge, but fortunately nothing has come of it). I blame none of this on Stitt, but it occurred.

As I have pointed out many times, Stitt inherited a team that had gone to the playoffs 2 years in a row, beaten the Cats 2 years in a row, and been ranked nos. 12 and 8 in post-season polls. Yes, not quite up there with what Hauck inherited, but far above not being ranked in the top 30, losing the Cats 2 years in a row, and not making the playoffs 2 years in a row. The team was not improving; it was declining. So was attendance.

And I got 67% for the combined records of Delaney/Pflu. Not 64. Maybe I goofed up.

I stand corrected--three trips to the chipper, not two.

I do believe Dennehy and Pflugrad had a winning percentage of 64%--but that's not important.

I'd have to go back and read "Missoula" again. But while Donaldson was mentioned most prominently, the book was not about him alone, but many other cases of sexual abuse, including a gang rape, and a culture that not only covered it all up, but intimidated women who spoke out against it. I can tolerate DUI's, especially in Montana, and fights such the fight at WSU. Kids will be kids. But that's not what "Missoula" was about, and you know it. And that all primarily took place during Hauck's reign.

The "gang rape" was overblown. Not sure if it involved more than blow jobs, at least for some of those involved. The police were notified fairly quickly. Investigated and declined to prosecute. A year later, the police investigated again and declined to prosecute. The accuser had told police that the guys wouldn't have known she didn't consent. The accuser's female friend who was there wouldn't back up the accuser's story. No involved player who got a lawyer was "convicted" in the school proceeding or kicked out of school. In fact, the ones who went through the proceeding were acquitted and allowed to graduate. There was no cover up whatsoever.

In the Donaldson situation, there was zero coverup. The police were told and involved before the university or coaches were. In the JJ situation, O'Day reported to the matter to university promptly after it occurred and he learned about it. Zero coverup.

What's your basis for saying there was a culture to cover up? That's not supported by the facts. And intimidation? Where are you getting that from? I've never heard that.

I think what he's saying is that if he gets up at night and smells puppy shit he doesn't have to turn on the light or step in it to conclude the puppy had an accident. Only our constitution says you have to have proof beyond a reasonable doubt to form an opinion. (And that's only to convict of a crime). Real life is preponderance of evidence, and the opinions he states, like it or not, seem to be the prevailing conclusions of the public. Unfortunately, attorneys in America have a hard time with this concept. Our courts are a place where truth is dictated by what comes in under strict evidence rules. In Britain, for example, all hearsay is admitted to be ferreted out by the judge or jury, as the public does here. I'm not trying to start a debate about what country has the best legal system. Just pointing out nobody uses criminal proof standards before making reasonable conclusions in real life.

 

[Grizzly96]

Okay, I was a Stitt guy. Still am. So let's look at some facts.

When Hauck took over the program, his predecessors, Dennehy and Glenn, had a combined winning record of 81%. Hauck inherited the proverbial "keys to the Cadillac." Glenn had won one national championship, and come oh-so-close against Georgia Southern in another chipper. (A game that still pisses me off, because we had them on the ropes and let them off through stupid play-calling.) Yes, Hauck got us to the chipper twice, but never won a national championship.

When Stitt took over the program, his predecessors, Pflugrad and Delany, had a combined winning percentage of 64%. So this was no longer a Cadillac. A Nissan, maybe.

Plus Stitt inherited the "Missoula" problem, one of the ugliest chapters in the history of Montana athletics, a problem caused at least in PART by the players Hauck recruited to the Montana program. Until Hauck has continued Stitt's legacy of running a clean program, that taint will remain with Hauck.

I wasn't happy about losing to the Bobcats, but I liked Stitt's recruiting; liked the fact he ran a squeaky clean program; and felt that in any event, a coach deserves four years, for his recruits to be fully implemented into the program.

As most of you know, I remember the basketball tradition at Montana, where Travis DeCuire is putting together a program we can really be proud of--not against second-tier, PONY league competition, but against the best of the best, where we were competitive against a team that went to the championship game of National Association of Big Boys.

So for all you Hauck fans out there, let me just ask one favor of you: Don't put us through the "Missoula" embarrassment again, okay?

This would be true if improvement is shown. Under Stitt it was not. Team was consistently displaying the same tendencies. Offense scored in bunches, but disappeared when truly needed. Defense and special teams were almost non-existent. There is a reason that teams did not line up to hire him after he was let go from UM.

 

[PlayerRep]

Some reactions, corrections and disagreements.

Hauck took UM to the national championship 3 times, not 2 times. And to the semis 4 out of his 7 years.

If by the "Missoula" problem, you mean the Krakauer book and sexual assault, note that only one Hauck recruit, Donaldson, was involved in sexual assault, and that came out several years after Hauck had left for UNLV. Hauck is not even mentioned in Krakauer's book.

Given the various stuff that occurred while Stitt was in Missoula, don't know how you can say his program was "squeaky clean". Players got into various trouble, just like they do most everywhere. Dui's, assault/fight arrests, the house break-in (the one under construction, where they were charged with felonies), the WSU fight (which caused bad press, a two-game suspension, recommendations of a felony charge, but fortunately nothing has come of it). I blame none of this on Stitt, but it occurred.

As I have pointed out many times, Stitt inherited a team that had gone to the playoffs 2 years in a row, beaten the Cats 2 years in a row, and been ranked nos. 12 and 8 in post-season polls. Yes, not quite up there with what Hauck inherited, but far above not being ranked in the top 30, losing the Cats 2 years in a row, and not making the playoffs 2 years in a row. The team was not improving; it was declining. So was attendance.

And I got 67% for the combined records of Delaney/Pflu. Not 64. Maybe I goofed up.

I stand corrected--three trips to the chipper, not two.

I do believe Dennehy and Pflugrad had a winning percentage of 64%--but that's not important.

I'd have to go back and read "Missoula" again. But while Donaldson was mentioned most prominently, the book was not about him alone, but many other cases of sexual abuse, including a gang rape, and a culture that not only covered it all up, but intimidated women who spoke out against it. I can tolerate DUI's, especially in Montana, and fights such the fight at WSU. Kids will be kids. But that's not what "Missoula" was about, and you know it. And that all primarily took place during Hauck's reign.

The "gang rape" was overblown. Not sure if it involved more than blow jobs, at least for some of those involved. The police were notified fairly quickly. Investigated and declined to prosecute. A year later, the police investigated again and declined to prosecute. The accuser had told police that the guys wouldn't have known she didn't consent. The accuser's female friend who was there wouldn't back up the accuser's story. No involved player who got a lawyer was "convicted" in the school proceeding or kicked out of school. In fact, the ones who went through the proceeding were acquitted and allowed to graduate. There was no cover up whatsoever.

In the Donaldson situation, there was zero coverup. The police were told and involved before the university or coaches were. In the JJ situation, O'Day reported to the matter to university promptly after it occurred and he learned about it. Zero coverup.

What's your basis for saying there was a culture to cover up? That's not supported by the facts. And intimidation? Where are you getting that from? I've never heard that.

I think what he's saying is that if he gets up at night and smells puppy shit he doesn't have to turn on the light or step in it to conclude the puppy had an accident. Only our constitution says you have to have proof beyond a reasonable doubt to form an opinion. (And that's only to convict of a crime). Real life is preponderance of evidence, and the opinions he states, like it or not, seem to be the prevailing conclusions of the public. Unfortunately, attorneys in America have a hard time with this concept. Our courts are a place where truth is dictated by what comes in under strict evidence rules. In Britain, for example, all hearsay is admitted to be ferreted out by the judge or jury, as the public does here. I'm not trying to start a debate about what country has the best legal system. Just pointing out nobody uses criminal proof standards before making reasonable conclusions in real life.

I asked for any evidence. Said nothing about proof. Why don't you provide the evidence that there was a culture to cover up sexual assault at UM athletics? Any evidence? One shred? I know you can't, because there isn't any.

Some people just have their narrative, or their view, sometimes based on absolutely no facts, and they just stick with it. Drives me nuts.

 

[poorgriz]

Okay, I was a Stitt guy. Still am. So let's look at some facts.

When Hauck took over the program, his predecessors, Dennehy and Glenn, had a combined winning record of 81%. Hauck inherited the proverbial "keys to the Cadillac." Glenn had won one national championship, and come oh-so-close against Georgia Southern in another chipper. (A game that still pisses me off, because we had them on the ropes and let them off through stupid play-calling.) Yes, Hauck got us to the chipper twice, but never won a national championship.

When Stitt took over the program, his predecessors, Pflugrad and Delany, had a combined winning percentage of 64%. So this was no longer a Cadillac. A Nissan, maybe.

Plus Stitt inherited the "Missoula" problem, one of the ugliest chapters in the history of Montana athletics, a problem caused at least in PART by the players Hauck recruited to the Montana program. Until Hauck has continued Stitt's legacy of running a clean program, that taint will remain with Hauck.

I wasn't happy about losing to the Bobcats, but I liked Stitt's recruiting; liked the fact he ran a squeaky clean program; and felt that in any event, a coach deserves four years, for his recruits to be fully implemented into the program.

As most of you know, I remember the basketball tradition at Montana, where Travis DeCuire is putting together a program we can really be proud of--not against second-tier, PONY league competition, but against the best of the best, where we were competitive against a team that went to the championship game of National Association of Big Boys.

So for all you Hauck fans out there, let me just ask one favor of you: Don't put us through the "Missoula" embarrassment again, okay?

Some reactions, corrections and disagreements.

Hauck took UM to the national championship 3 times, not 2 times. And to the semis 4 out of his 7 years.

If by the "Missoula" problem, you mean the Krakauer book and sexual assault, note that only one Hauck recruit, Donaldson, was involved in sexual assault, and that came out several years after Hauck had left for UNLV. Hauck is not even mentioned in Krakauer's book.

Given the various stuff that occurred while Stitt was in Missoula, don't know how you can say his program was "squeaky clean". Players got into various trouble, just like they do most everywhere. Dui's, assault/fight arrests, the house break-in (the one under construction, where they were charged with felonies), the WSU fight (which caused bad press, a two-game suspension, recommendations of a felony charge, but fortunately nothing has come of it). I blame none of this on Stitt, but it occurred.

As I have pointed out many times, Stitt inherited a team that had gone to the playoffs 2 years in a row, beaten the Cats 2 years in a row, and been ranked nos. 12 and 8 in post-season polls. Yes, not quite up there with what Hauck inherited, but far above not being ranked in the top 30, losing the Cats 2 years in a row, and not making the playoffs 2 years in a row. The team was not improving; it was declining. So was attendance.

And I got 67% for the combined records of Delaney/Pflu. Not 64. Maybe I goofed up.

I stand corrected--three trips to the chipper, not two.

I do believe Dennehy and Pflugrad had a winning percentage of 64%--but that's not important.

I'd have to go back and read "Missoula" again. But while Donaldson was mentioned most prominently, the book was not about him alone, but many other cases of sexual abuse, including a gang rape, and a culture that not only covered it all up, but intimidated women who spoke out against it. I can tolerate DUI's, especially in Montana, and fights such the fight at WSU. Kids will be kids. But that's not what "Missoula" was about, and you know it. And that all primarily took place during Hauck's reign.

The "gang rape" was overblown. Not sure if it involved more than blow jobs, at least for some of those involved. The police were notified fairly quickly. Investigated and declined to prosecute. A year later, the police investigated again and declined to prosecute. The accuser had told police that the guys wouldn't have known she didn't consent. The accuser's female friend who was there wouldn't back up the accuser's story. No involved player who got a lawyer was "convicted" in the school proceeding or kicked out of school. In fact, the ones who went through the proceeding were acquitted and allowed to graduate. There was no cover up whatsoever.

In the Donaldson situation, there was zero coverup. The police were told and involved before the university or coaches were. In the JJ situation, O'Day reported to the matter to university promptly after it occurred and he learned about it. Zero coverup.

What's your basis for saying there was a culture to cover up? That's not supported by the facts. And intimidation? Where are you getting that from? I've never heard that.

And I think one thing we can ALL agree upon is there is absolutely nothing wrong with a bunch of players participating in group BJ events, in fact it should be encouraged. :thumb:

 

[tnt]

I stand corrected--three trips to the chipper, not two.

I do believe Dennehy and Pflugrad had a winning percentage of 64%--but that's not important.

I'd have to go back and read "Missoula" again. But while Donaldson was mentioned most prominently, the book was not about him alone, but many other cases of sexual abuse, including a gang rape, and a culture that not only covered it all up, but intimidated women who spoke out against it. I can tolerate DUI's, especially in Montana, and fights such the fight at WSU. Kids will be kids. But that's not what "Missoula" was about, and you know it. And that all primarily took place during Hauck's reign.

The "gang rape" was overblown. Not sure if it involved more than blow jobs, at least for some of those involved. The police were notified fairly quickly. Investigated and declined to prosecute. A year later, the police investigated again and declined to prosecute. The accuser had told police that the guys wouldn't have known she didn't consent. The accuser's female friend who was there wouldn't back up the accuser's story. No involved player who got a lawyer was "convicted" in the school proceeding or kicked out of school. In fact, the ones who went through the proceeding were acquitted and allowed to graduate. There was no cover up whatsoever.

In the Donaldson situation, there was zero coverup. The police were told and involved before the university or coaches were. In the JJ situation, O'Day reported to the matter to university promptly after it occurred and he learned about it. Zero coverup.

What's your basis for saying there was a culture to cover up? That's not supported by the facts. And intimidation? Where are you getting that from? I've never heard that.

I think what he's saying is that if he gets up at night and smells puppy shit he doesn't have to turn on the light or step in it to conclude the puppy had an accident. Only our constitution says you have to have proof beyond a reasonable doubt to form an opinion. (And that's only to convict of a crime). Real life is preponderance of evidence, and the opinions he states, like it or not, seem to be the prevailing conclusions of the public. Unfortunately, attorneys in America have a hard time with this concept. Our courts are a place where truth is dictated by what comes in under strict evidence rules. In Britain, for example, all hearsay is admitted to be ferreted out by the judge or jury, as the public does here. I'm not trying to start a debate about what country has the best legal system. Just pointing out nobody uses criminal proof standards before making reasonable conclusions in real life.

I asked for any evidence. Said nothing about proof. Why don't you provide the evidence that there was a culture to cover up sexual assault at UM athletics? Any evidence? One shred? I know you can't, because there isn't any.

Some people just have their narrative, or their view, sometimes based on absolutely no facts, and they just stick with it. Drives me nuts.

It doesn't rise to the cover up, but when you have Jim Foley driving players to see their lawyers, it certainly gives the appearance of cover-up for something. Now were Jim Foley to do the same for EVERY student who got into a stupid situation and not just football players, it would look somewhat different.

That being said If RE had kept his damn mouth shut and been a little less "open there would have been a better outcome..... Bartz repot etc put fire where there was smoke..............

 

[TCCGRIZ]

Boy after reading some comments in this thread there are a lot of panties bunched up .
I am going to petition we get some of them there crying rooms set up across the state .They will have stuffed animals ,puppies , A bottle of Midol, A tube of Vagisil , am I missing anything ?????
People need to get over it . It is what it is . Let's move on !!!!! The sky is not falling
#RTD #FTC

 

[AZDoc]

Boy after reading some comments in this thread there are a lot of panties bunched up .
I am going to petition we get some of them there crying rooms set up across the state .They will have stuffed animals ,puppies , A bottle of Midol, A tube of Vagisil , am I missing anything ?????
People need to get over it . It is what it is . Let's move on !!!!! The sky is not falling
#RTD #FTC

That aforementioned group blow job...

 

[PlayerRep]

See excerpts from jezebel.com article and link:

"She tells it like this: two best girlfriends got drunk with the team and took turns going around in a circle and giving the players blowjobs. One of the girls also had sex with one of the football players that night, and when her boyfriend caught wind of the affair, she said it was non-consensual. He convinced her to file a police report, but the County Attorney's Office decided not to prosecute, citing a lack of evidence. Tori thinks that's because her friend showed them the video, which depicted the girl excited and laughing. "In other words," Tori says, "She was into it."

"UM senior Kerry Barrett is one of those drunk girls, as well as the first student I meet that will let me use her real name; she's become somewhat of the poster child for Missoula's burgeoning anti-rape movement ever since she approached the city's local paper, the Missoulian, as a last resort after she was told by police that her sexual assault allegations, along with those of her close friend, lacked enough evidence to press charges.:

Note that the author says she worked with Gwen Florio on the article.

https://jezebel.com/5908472/my-weekend-in-americas-so-called-rape-capital

 

[ranco]

Some reactions, corrections and disagreements.

Hauck took UM to the national championship 3 times, not 2 times. And to the semis 4 out of his 7 years.

If by the "Missoula" problem, you mean the Krakauer book and sexual assault, note that only one Hauck recruit, Donaldson, was involved in sexual assault, and that came out several years after Hauck had left for UNLV. Hauck is not even mentioned in Krakauer's book.

Given the various stuff that occurred while Stitt was in Missoula, don't know how you can say his program was "squeaky clean". Players got into various trouble, just like they do most everywhere. Dui's, assault/fight arrests, the house break-in (the one under construction, where they were charged with felonies), the WSU fight (which caused bad press, a two-game suspension, recommendations of a felony charge, but fortunately nothing has come of it). I blame none of this on Stitt, but it occurred.

As I have pointed out many times, Stitt inherited a team that had gone to the playoffs 2 years in a row, beaten the Cats 2 years in a row, and been ranked nos. 12 and 8 in post-season polls. Yes, not quite up there with what Hauck inherited, but far above not being ranked in the top 30, losing the Cats 2 years in a row, and not making the playoffs 2 years in a row. The team was not improving; it was declining. So was attendance.

And I got 67% for the combined records of Delaney/Pflu. Not 64. Maybe I goofed up.

I stand corrected--three trips to the chipper, not two.

I do believe Dennehy and Pflugrad had a winning percentage of 64%--but that's not important.

I'd have to go back and read "Missoula" again. But while Donaldson was mentioned most prominently, the book was not about him alone, but many other cases of sexual abuse, including a gang rape, and a culture that not only covered it all up, but intimidated women who spoke out against it. I can tolerate DUI's, especially in Montana, and fights such the fight at WSU. Kids will be kids. But that's not what "Missoula" was about, and you know it. And that all primarily took place during Hauck's reign.

The "gang rape" was overblown. Not sure if it involved more than blow jobs, at least for some of those involved. The police were notified fairly quickly. Investigated and declined to prosecute. A year later, the police investigated again and declined to prosecute. The accuser had told police that the guys wouldn't have known she didn't consent. The accuser's female friend who was there wouldn't back up the accuser's story. No involved player who got a lawyer was "convicted" in the school proceeding or kicked out of school. In fact, the ones who went through the proceeding were acquitted and allowed to graduate. There was no cover up whatsoever.

In the Donaldson situation, there was zero coverup. The police were told and involved before the university or coaches were. In the JJ situation, O'Day reported to the matter to university promptly after it occurred and he learned about it. Zero coverup.

What's your basis for saying there was a culture to cover up? That's not supported by the facts. And intimidation? Where are you getting that from? I've never heard that.

I think what he's saying is that if he gets up at night and smells puppy shit he doesn't have to turn on the light or step in it to conclude the puppy had an accident. Only our constitution says you have to have proof beyond a reasonable doubt to form an opinion. (And that's only to convict of a crime). Real life is preponderance of evidence, and the opinions he states, like it or not, seem to be the prevailing conclusions of the public. Unfortunately, attorneys in America have a hard time with this concept. Our courts are a place where truth is dictated by what comes in under strict evidence rules. In Britain, for example, all hearsay is admitted to be ferreted out by the judge or jury, as the public does here. I'm not trying to start a debate about what country has the best legal system. Just pointing out nobody uses criminal proof standards before making reasonable conclusions in real life.

Your example is spot on. You get up at night, think you smell puppy shit, don't even bother turning on the light to confirm, then kick the puppy for her accident. You then wake up in the morning to discover the smell was actually coming from the left over dinner you threw into the garbage, the same garbage your wife told you to take outside because it smelled like shit. Yeah, who needs to actually confirm facts before coming to a conclusion, a waste of time really. Just keep forming opinions in the dark.

 

[EverettGriz]

Never kick a puppy.

 

[Happygriz1]

Okay, I was a Stitt guy. Still am. So let's look at some facts.

When Hauck took over the program, his predecessors, Dennehy and Glenn, had a combined winning record of 81%. Hauck inherited the proverbial "keys to the Cadillac." Glenn had won one national championship, and come oh-so-close against Georgia Southern in another chipper. (A game that still pisses me off, because we had them on the ropes and let them off through stupid play-calling.) Yes, Hauck got us to the chipper twice, but never won a national championship.

When Stitt took over the program, his predecessors, Pflugrad and Delany, had a combined winning percentage of 64%. So this was no longer a Cadillac. A Nissan, maybe.

Plus Stitt inherited the "Missoula" problem, one of the ugliest chapters in the history of Montana athletics, a problem caused at least in PART by the players Hauck recruited to the Montana program. Until Hauck has continued Stitt's legacy of running a clean program, that taint will remain with Hauck.

I wasn't happy about losing to the Bobcats, but I liked Stitt's recruiting; liked the fact he ran a squeaky clean program; and felt that in any event, a coach deserves four years, for his recruits to be fully implemented into the program.

As most of you know, I remember the basketball tradition at Montana, where Travis DeCuire is putting together a program we can really be proud of--not against second-tier, PONY league competition, but against the best of the best, where we were competitive against a team that went to the championship game of National Association of Big Boys.

So for all you Hauck fans out there, let me just ask one favor of you: Don't put us through the "Missoula" embarrassment again, okay?

Some reactions, corrections and disagreements.

Hauck took UM to the national championship 3 times, not 2 times. And to the semis 4 out of his 7 years.

If by the "Missoula" problem, you mean the Krakauer book and sexual assault, note that only one Hauck recruit, Donaldson, was involved in sexual assault, and that came out several years after Hauck had left for UNLV. Hauck is not even mentioned in Krakauer's book.

Given the various stuff that occurred while Stitt was in Missoula, don't know how you can say his program was "squeaky clean". Players got into various trouble, just like they do most everywhere. Dui's, assault/fight arrests, the house break-in (the one under construction, where they were charged with felonies), the WSU fight (which caused bad press, a two-game suspension, recommendations of a felony charge, but fortunately nothing has come of it). I blame none of this on Stitt, but it occurred.

As I have pointed out many times, Stitt inherited a team that had gone to the playoffs 2 years in a row, beaten the Cats 2 years in a row, and been ranked nos. 12 and 8 in post-season polls. Yes, not quite up there with what Hauck inherited, but far above not being ranked in the top 30, losing the Cats 2 years in a row, and not making the playoffs 2 years in a row. The team was not improving; it was declining. So was attendance.

And I got 67% for the combined records of Delaney/Pflu. Not 64. Maybe I goofed up.

I stand corrected--three trips to the chipper, not two.

I do believe Dennehy and Pflugrad had a winning percentage of 64%--but that's not important.

I'd have to go back and read "Missoula" again. But while Donaldson was mentioned most prominently, the book was not about him alone, but many other cases of sexual abuse, including a gang rape, and a culture that not only covered it all up, but intimidated women who spoke out against it. I can tolerate DUI's, especially in Montana, and fights such the fight at WSU. Kids will be kids. But that's not what "Missoula" was about, and you know it. And that all primarily took place during Hauck's reign.

The "gang rape" was overblown. Not sure if it involved more than blow jobs, at least for some of those involved. The police were notified fairly quickly. Investigated and declined to prosecute. A year later, the police investigated again and declined to prosecute. The accuser had told police that the guys wouldn't have known she didn't consent. The accuser's female friend who was there wouldn't back up the accuser's story. No involved player who got a lawyer was "convicted" in the school proceeding or kicked out of school. In fact, the ones who went through the proceeding were acquitted and allowed to graduate. There was no cover up whatsoever.

In the Donaldson situation, there was zero coverup. The police were told and involved before the university or coaches were. In the JJ situation, O'Day reported to the matter to university promptly after it occurred and he learned about it. Zero coverup.

What's your basis for saying there was a culture to cover up? That's not supported by the facts. And intimidation? Where are you getting that from? I've never heard that.

How do you over blow a gang rape, if she couldn’t say no she probably didn’t say yes either which isn’t consenting. So wether or not she decided to press charges was her choice. Think before you speak.

 

[Ursa Major]

This thread smells like 2012 or 2013. Ahhh, the good ol' days.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Some reactions, corrections and disagreements.

Hauck took UM to the national championship 3 times, not 2 times. And to the semis 4 out of his 7 years.

If by the "Missoula" problem, you mean the Krakauer book and sexual assault, note that only one Hauck recruit, Donaldson, was involved in sexual assault, and that came out several years after Hauck had left for UNLV. Hauck is not even mentioned in Krakauer's book.

Given the various stuff that occurred while Stitt was in Missoula, don't know how you can say his program was "squeaky clean". Players got into various trouble, just like they do most everywhere. Dui's, assault/fight arrests, the house break-in (the one under construction, where they were charged with felonies), the WSU fight (which caused bad press, a two-game suspension, recommendations of a felony charge, but fortunately nothing has come of it). I blame none of this on Stitt, but it occurred.

As I have pointed out many times, Stitt inherited a team that had gone to the playoffs 2 years in a row, beaten the Cats 2 years in a row, and been ranked nos. 12 and 8 in post-season polls. Yes, not quite up there with what Hauck inherited, but far above not being ranked in the top 30, losing the Cats 2 years in a row, and not making the playoffs 2 years in a row. The team was not improving; it was declining. So was attendance.

And I got 67% for the combined records of Delaney/Pflu. Not 64. Maybe I goofed up.

I stand corrected--three trips to the chipper, not two.

I do believe Dennehy and Pflugrad had a winning percentage of 64%--but that's not important.

I'd have to go back and read "Missoula" again. But while Donaldson was mentioned most prominently, the book was not about him alone, but many other cases of sexual abuse, including a gang rape, and a culture that not only covered it all up, but intimidated women who spoke out against it. I can tolerate DUI's, especially in Montana, and fights such the fight at WSU. Kids will be kids. But that's not what "Missoula" was about, and you know it. And that all primarily took place during Hauck's reign.

The "gang rape" was overblown. Not sure if it involved more than blow jobs, at least for some of those involved. The police were notified fairly quickly. Investigated and declined to prosecute. A year later, the police investigated again and declined to prosecute. The accuser had told police that the guys wouldn't have known she didn't consent. The accuser's female friend who was there wouldn't back up the accuser's story. No involved player who got a lawyer was "convicted" in the school proceeding or kicked out of school. In fact, the ones who went through the proceeding were acquitted and allowed to graduate. There was no cover up whatsoever.

In the Donaldson situation, there was zero coverup. The police were told and involved before the university or coaches were. In the JJ situation, O'Day reported to the matter to university promptly after it occurred and he learned about it. Zero coverup.

What's your basis for saying there was a culture to cover up? That's not supported by the facts. And intimidation? Where are you getting that from? I've never heard that.

How do you over blow a gang rape, if she couldn’t say no she probably didn’t say yes either which isn’t consenting. So wether or not she decided to press charges was her choice. Think before you speak.

As far as I can tell, a rape was never proven to happen. So pretty hard to over blow a gang rape.

 

[grizrgood]

Some reactions, corrections and disagreements.

Hauck took UM to the national championship 3 times, not 2 times. And to the semis 4 out of his 7 years.

If by the "Missoula" problem, you mean the Krakauer book and sexual assault, note that only one Hauck recruit, Donaldson, was involved in sexual assault, and that came out several years after Hauck had left for UNLV. Hauck is not even mentioned in Krakauer's book.

Given the various stuff that occurred while Stitt was in Missoula, don't know how you can say his program was "squeaky clean". Players got into various trouble, just like they do most everywhere. Dui's, assault/fight arrests, the house break-in (the one under construction, where they were charged with felonies), the WSU fight (which caused bad press, a two-game suspension, recommendations of a felony charge, but fortunately nothing has come of it). I blame none of this on Stitt, but it occurred.

As I have pointed out many times, Stitt inherited a team that had gone to the playoffs 2 years in a row, beaten the Cats 2 years in a row, and been ranked nos. 12 and 8 in post-season polls. Yes, not quite up there with what Hauck inherited, but far above not being ranked in the top 30, losing the Cats 2 years in a row, and not making the playoffs 2 years in a row. The team was not improving; it was declining. So was attendance.

And I got 67% for the combined records of Delaney/Pflu. Not 64. Maybe I goofed up.

I stand corrected--three trips to the chipper, not two.

I do believe Dennehy and Pflugrad had a winning percentage of 64%--but that's not important.

I'd have to go back and read "Missoula" again. But while Donaldson was mentioned most prominently, the book was not about him alone, but many other cases of sexual abuse, including a gang rape, and a culture that not only covered it all up, but intimidated women who spoke out against it. I can tolerate DUI's, especially in Montana, and fights such the fight at WSU. Kids will be kids. But that's not what "Missoula" was about, and you know it. And that all primarily took place during Hauck's reign.

The "gang rape" was overblown. Not sure if it involved more than blow jobs, at least for some of those involved. The police were notified fairly quickly. Investigated and declined to prosecute. A year later, the police investigated again and declined to prosecute. The accuser had told police that the guys wouldn't have known she didn't consent. The accuser's female friend who was there wouldn't back up the accuser's story. No involved player who got a lawyer was "convicted" in the school proceeding or kicked out of school. In fact, the ones who went through the proceeding were acquitted and allowed to graduate. There was no cover up whatsoever.

In the Donaldson situation, there was zero coverup. The police were told and involved before the university or coaches were. In the JJ situation, O'Day reported to the matter to university promptly after it occurred and he learned about it. Zero coverup.

What's your basis for saying there was a culture to cover up? That's not supported by the facts. And intimidation? Where are you getting that from? I've never heard that.

How do you over blow a gang rape, if she couldn’t say no she probably didn’t say yes either which isn’t consenting. So wether or not she decided to press charges was her choice. Think before you speak.

Read more of the thread before you post?