Missoula Rises is giving Griz Nation a chance to submit some questions

[first11]

Thank you BW for infusing sanity The “thou protest too much” crowd creates a paranoid over reach that reflects poorly. The fire someone stuff also laughable, some of whom wanting heads to roll drooled over the early hiring of same.

 

[tourist]

The whole premise of this thread is "a chance to submit some questions." Not highly edited, rephrased questions which do not reflect the true intent of the questioner. Check to see if your question was presented as intended.

On a side note, does anyone know if this farce will be broadcast or videotaped, or aired on radio? Relying on the Missoulian, Independent, or Kaimin to accurately report ANYTHING is foolish. That leaves it to eGrizzers to do the reporting. There are some damn fine writers on this site who would do a great job. I won't list any of you for fear of leaving someone out, but you know who you are.

 

[Spanky]

The whole premise of this thread is "a chance to submit some questions." Not highly edited, rephrased questions which do not reflect the true intent of the questioner. Check to see if your question was presented as intended.

On a side note, does anyone know if this farce will be broadcast or videotaped, or aired on radio? Relying on the Missoulian, Independent, or Kaimin to accurately report ANYTHING is foolish. That leaves it to eGrizzers to do the reporting. There are some damn fine writers on this site who would do a great job. I won't list any of you for fear of leaving someone out, but you know who you are.

Fats isn’t one

 

[mtgrizrule]

I guess this belongs better here. I also posted it on another thread.

As if implementing athletes to take informational classes on this, tighter monitoring, reporting, etc is not enough. What is something like this supposed to accomplish for the athletes, teams, athletic department, community, etc ? I feel the U of M has done a great job in what already has been done and moving forward.

Honestly, how difficult is it to just emphasizing "Stay out of trouble", "make the right common sense decisions", etc? Seriously most of the adversity that has occurred within the athletic department and programs stemmed from bad decisions and/or not using common sense. I would hope that most 17 to 22 year old athletes can be expected to stay out of trouble and make common sense decisions. If not, maybe this society really is protecting kids from too many things as they are growing up.

I know damn well, by the time my friends and I were teenagers, our parents, teachers, coaches, etc had taught us enough that most of us could make common decisions and do everything possible to stay out of legal trouble situations.

I commend those taking the time and efforts needed for things like this. I just question, why is all this necessary or needed? Has our society really gotten this bad? Doesn't something like this even further having fans, and those not on the U of M payroll getting over involved, too close, etc?

 

[tourist]

That’s not the strategy that was employed. Engstrom had his head in the sand and prayed it would all just go away. In fact, he was responsible for perpetuating a lot of the negative crap that the University and community has been dealing with over the last few years. The overreaction with the NCAA, the firing of both the athletic director and the football coach without explanation, the mismanagement of the JJ situation, the Saudi student, all created the issues we have currently. Engstrom and the admin weren’t combating untruth with facts, they were actively creating their own and perpetuating the myth about how “dangerous” the football team is. When things died down here is what he didn’t do:

1) engage the community to try and bridge the gaps that had formed.

2) Publicly explain his actions in regards to Pflugrad and O’Day

3) Engage Griz Nation to bring the disaffected (on both sides) back

This giant mess is mostly Engstrom’s creation (and some followers on, such as two “journalists”). This is just the first step. However, as you have pointed out, this really is a wicked problem.

Bodnar does need to be there. He should bring Engstrom along, so the audience can see the face of evil. He'd be a great prop.

 

[fanofzoo]

Lost cause.

I go back to my initial statement. NOTHING good can come of this. She’s dug in, made her position clear, and nothing is going to change her mind. I think it’s a giant mistake for Bodnar, Haslam and Hauck to allow themselves to get sucked up into this witch hunt.

Made it through lots of replies looking and you made it clear and simple. There is isn't an exit in this play.

 

[GGNez]

I guess this belongs better here. I also posted it on another thread.

As if implementing athletes to take informational classes on this, tighter monitoring, reporting, etc is not enough. What is something like this supposed to accomplish for the athletes, teams, athletic department, community, etc ? I feel the U of M has done a great job in what already has been done and moving forward.

Honestly, how difficult is it to just emphasizing "Stay out of trouble", "make the right common sense decisions", etc? Seriously most of the adversity that has occurred within the athletic department and programs stemmed from bad decisions and/or not using common sense. I would hope that most 17 to 22 year old athletes can be expected to stay out of trouble and make common sense decisions. If not, maybe this society really is protecting kids from too many things as they are growing up.

I know damn well, by the time my friends and I were teenagers, our parents, teachers, coaches, etc had taught us enough that most of us could make common decisions and do everything possible to stay out of legal trouble situations.

I commend those taking the time and efforts needed for things like this. I just question, why is all this necessary or needed? Has our society really gotten this bad? Doesn't something like this even further having fans, and those not on the U of M payroll getting over involved, too close, etc?

I don't think that bringing these matters to the forefront and taking time to discuss and address them indicates that our society has gotten worse or that sexual assault has suddenly become an issue. It's always been an issue. We're just evolving in regard to what we will accept as societal norms. It used to be the norm for kids to occassionally ride in the back of a pick-up, never use seat belts (if the car even had them) and there were no car seats for babies and toddlers. We've evolved. Now, all vehicles have to have seat belts and we are required by law to use them. The standards for kids' car seats continues to change in the direction of caution and safety.
There were ads in the '50's suggesting that better quality kitchen appliances would prevent a man from having to spank his wife for serving a less-than-stellar meal. We've progressed from there and, now, are at a new place in that progression. We (some people) now understand that joking about beating your wife is more than just words. It creates a culture of acceptance and incites or encourages those with a propensity to be violent.
My example is the tip of a huge iceberg, but hopefully you get my point.
Naturally, many are resistant to change and feel that things have gone way too far. Back when it became legally and morally unnacceptable to own black people, many people resisted that change in society. "Separate but equal" was a fair compromise, but NO WAY were they going to share water fountains with "those people."
Social compromise and progress isn't pretty and doesn't come without growing pains. Best advice for both sides: work through this with civility and respect.

 

[Spanky]

Well we'll have to agree to disagree on that last part. I'm not say attack the CONCEPT. I'm saying he should have called her out on her lies and half truths....If she's going to build a case, it shouldn't be a house of cards. Her entire premise is based off of misinformation, third/forth hand information, or flat out false information. Coddling her did zero good, IMHO. But what do I know, I've only run two companies.

If you didn’t own them, it doesn’t count

But even if I owned them I didn't build them, according to some. :lol: :lol:

True enough. Others always take credit for success.

 

[mtgrizrule]

I guess this belongs better here. I also posted it on another thread.

As if implementing athletes to take informational classes on this, tighter monitoring, reporting, etc is not enough. What is something like this supposed to accomplish for the athletes, teams, athletic department, community, etc ? I feel the U of M has done a great job in what already has been done and moving forward.

Honestly, how difficult is it to just emphasizing "Stay out of trouble", "make the right common sense decisions", etc? Seriously most of the adversity that has occurred within the athletic department and programs stemmed from bad decisions and/or not using common sense. I would hope that most 17 to 22 year old athletes can be expected to stay out of trouble and make common sense decisions. If not, maybe this society really is protecting kids from too many things as they are growing up.

I know damn well, by the time my friends and I were teenagers, our parents, teachers, coaches, etc had taught us enough that most of us could make common decisions and do everything possible to stay out of legal trouble situations.

I commend those taking the time and efforts needed for things like this. I just question, why is all this necessary or needed? Has our society really gotten this bad? Doesn't something like this even further having fans, and those not on the U of M payroll getting over involved, too close, etc?

I don't think that bringing these matters to the forefront and taking time to discuss and address them indicates that our society has gotten worse or that sexual assault has suddenly become an issue. It's always been an issue. We're just evolving in regard to what we will accept as societal norms. It used to be the norm for kids to occassionally ride in the back of a pick-up, never use seat belts (if the car even had them) and there were no car seats for babies and toddlers. We've evolved. Now, all vehicles have to have seat belts and we are required by law to use them. The standards for kids' car seats continues to change in the direction of caution and safety.
There were ads in the '50's suggesting that better quality kitchen appliances would prevent a man from having to spank his wife for serving a less-than-stellar meal. We've progressed from there and, now, are at a new place in that progression. We (some people) now understand that joking about beating your wife is more than just words. It creates a culture of acceptance and incites or encourages those with a propensity to be violent.
My example is the tip of a huge iceberg, but hopefully you get my point.
Naturally, many are resistant to change and feel that things have gone way too far. Back when it became legally and morally unnacceptable to own black people, many people resisted that change in society. "Separate but equal" was a fair compromise, but NO WAY were they going to share water fountains with "those people."
Social compromise and progress isn't pretty and doesn't come without growing pains. Best advice for both sides: work through this with civility and respect.

Thanks for the response. I guess I am in the minority that believes most people are capable of common sense decision making for the better. Then again, I am a thorough believer that parents should be teaching their kids right from wrong as young as possible. That way, when those kids become young adults they are more capable of making the right decisions. All this really makes it look as if too many people are not capable of thinking for themselves with common sense decisions.

 

[Sam A. Blitz]

The tail sure seems to be wagging the dog.

We seem to have two minority groups here that collectively probably make up no more than 15% of the general population that have created this monstrosity. I’m all for public debate but please consider how this all started and who started it.

The extremes of both groups, the Mikes and the Lisas, have used particularily crude words and messaging in this debate to incite their own and the other’s small but pationate bases. Lisa with her unfair and over the top faux book cover and Mike with his mysoginist rantings. The truly ironic piece is that both extreme ends of this bell curve here share so much in common. Both crave the attention of others, good or bad, and will go to extremes to garner that attention “for the cause.” Both also view themselves as victims and the other side as bullies. In a word, they are zealots.

So in the context of the ongoing cultural wars and strengthened by media attention and their own self-aggrandizing online polls, both groups have gained a following that has elevated this to a community-wide debate with the participation of a universty president.

Aside from the attention seeking of the zealots, Is there really that much to discuss here? The vast majority in the middle want to reduce sexual violence and want a UM football team that they can be proud of, on and off the field. Regardless of how you feel about Bobby Hauck, he will be the football coach.

What’s left? The zealots casting aspersions to each other so they can “convince” the other side that they are right? In the end, not changing one of the other zealots POV but walking away feeling better about themselves because they’re not one of those people.

The university has more pressing issues to deal with.

Missoula and Missoula Rises has more pressing issues to deal with (e.g. affordable housing, homelessness, opioid crisis).

As far as the Mikes and Lisas, who wants to spend time with intolerant self-absorbed bomb throwing zealots that taunt and bully others that don’t agree with them? In a word, assholes.

I apologize for the length of this post. If anyone needs me, I’ll be in the kinder and gentler Basketball forum.

Very well put. That 15% is mostly just pissed off and unsatisfied with their own lives, so they fill that void by trying to gain attention by being overtly angry and outspoken. Others fill it by being internet tough guys anonymously on message boards...

 

[GGNez]

Very well put. That 15% is mostly just pissed off and unsatisfied with their own lives, so they fill that void by trying to gain attention by being overtly angry and outspoken. Others fill it by being internet tough guys anonymously on message boards...

Truth.

 

[SoldierGriz]

Very well put. That 15% is mostly just pissed off and unsatisfied with their own lives, so they fill that void by trying to gain attention by being overtly angry and outspoken. Others fill it by being internet tough guys anonymously on message boards...

Truth.

I don't know...I'm probably the toughest guy on this forum, and I think I really hate Missoula Rises.

 

[GGNez]

Very well put. That 15% is mostly just pissed off and unsatisfied with their own lives, so they fill that void by trying to gain attention by being overtly angry and outspoken. Others fill it by being internet tough guys anonymously on message boards...

Truth.

I don't know...I'm probably the toughest guy on this forum, and I think I really hate Missoula Rises.

Probably?

Stop being modest.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Very well put. That 15% is mostly just pissed off and unsatisfied with their own lives, so they fill that void by trying to gain attention by being overtly angry and outspoken. Others fill it by being internet tough guys anonymously on message boards...

Truth.

I don't know...I'm probably the toughest guy on this forum, and I think I really hate Missoula Rises.

I’m game. Arm wrestling in Mo Club @ noon?

 

[jcu27]

The tail sure seems to be wagging the dog.

We seem to have two minority groups here that collectively probably make up no more than 15% of the general population that have created this monstrosity. I’m all for public debate but please consider how this all started and who started it.

The extremes of both groups, the Mikes and the Lisas, have used particularily crude words and messaging in this debate to incite their own and the other’s small but pationate bases. Lisa with her unfair and over the top faux book cover and Mike with his mysoginist rantings. The truly ironic piece is that both extreme ends of this bell curve here share so much in common. Both crave the attention of others, good or bad, and will go to extremes to garner that attention “for the cause.” Both also view themselves as victims and the other side as bullies. In a word, they are zealots.

So in the context of the ongoing cultural wars and strengthened by media attention and their own self-aggrandizing online polls, both groups have gained a following that has elevated this to a community-wide debate with the participation of a universty president.

Aside from the attention seeking of the zealots, Is there really that much to discuss here? The vast majority in the middle want to reduce sexual violence and want a UM football team that they can be proud of, on and off the field. Regardless of how you feel about Bobby Hauck, he will be the football coach.

What’s left? The zealots casting aspersions to each other so they can “convince” the other side that they are right? In the end, not changing one of the other zealots POV but walking away feeling better about themselves because they’re not one of those people.

The university has more pressing issues to deal with.

Missoula and Missoula Rises has more pressing issues to deal with (e.g. affordable housing, homelessness, opioid crisis).

As far as the Mikes and Lisas, who wants to spend time with intolerant self-absorbed bomb throwing zealots that taunt and bully others that don’t agree with them? In a word, assholes.

I apologize for the length of this post. If anyone needs me, I’ll be in the kinder and gentler Basketball forum.

Very well put. That 15% is mostly just pissed off and unsatisfied with their own lives, so they fill that void by trying to gain attention by being overtly angry and outspoken. Others fill it by being internet tough guys anonymously on message boards...

:new:

 

[i_the_sky]

I find it hard to believe Seth Bodnar and Bobby Hauck would be wasting their time spending an afternoon with Lisa Davey! But I have been fooled before! Go GRIZ!

 

[signedbewildered]

I find it hard to believe Keila will provide fair, balanced and unbiased coverage of this event. So here is your chance Keila. Go to this with an open mind and report all aspects of it as a news story, not an editorial.

Thanks in advance!

 

[fanofzoo]

Let's make it a no show and go drinking.

 

[PlayerRep]

I find it hard to believe Seth Bodnar and Bobby Hauck would be wasting their time spending an afternoon with Lisa Davey! But I have been fooled before! Go GRIZ!

I think, and hope, that Bodnar and Hauck, and Haslam if there, will overpower and outshine the Daveys of the world. Davey is all political view and agenda, with no substance, and without facts, from what I can see. She has bitten off more than she can chew on this one. I plan to weigh in with the moderator ahead of time. They are barking up the wrong tree.

 

[AZDoc]

I find it hard to believe Seth Bodnar and Bobby Hauck would be wasting their time spending an afternoon with Lisa Davey! But I have been fooled before! Go GRIZ!

I think, and hope, that Bodnar and Hauck, and Haslam if there, will overpower and outshine the Daveys of the world. Davey is all political view and agenda, with no substance, and without facts, from what I can see. She has bitten off more than she can chew on this one. I plan to weigh in with the moderator ahead of time. They are barking up the wrong tree.

They will cave and grovel because if they don't, they look like the big, bad, bully. To be brutally honest, I can't believe this is actually happening. Let's get this straight...
Stuff happened in the past not directly associated with a coach, coach rehired, he is skewered on a fake cover that absolutely is slander, there is a heated exchange between the ends of the bell curve, one end is shut out for the most part, the other end continues to be loud, there is a group closely related to the one end that has convinced the university to have a "moderated exchange", and they agreed. What...could...POSSIBLY...go wrong?!
The only way this ends is if someone calls her out and she admits what she did was less than ideal. The fact that the football team is really the one's that are being called out as well is outright ludicrous. I agree with the previous poster that said something like "why can't they just be told to behave". Exactly. Do what you're told, should do as a human being, and if you don't...you're in trouble. Simple. Now, can this thread end yet?