HelenaHandBasket
Well-known member
rimrockgriz said:
What came first, the decline of the Griz program or the fans lower standards?
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Postseason
- Thread starter Bozo JrCollegeofAG
- Start date
What came first, the decline of the Griz program or the fans lower standards?
HelenaHandBasket said:
Chicken or egg? Think the expectations are still high. UM has as good of chance as NAU had against us. Road game creates confidence issues with fans, and the Griz fans will be in attendance for four quarters backing the team no matter the outcome. That can't be said about EWU bandwagon gang, if things go south they will abandoned ship(They don't like to hear that, the truth hurts) Win or loose this is not the entire season, this will help or hurt playoff seeding. At the end of the day 9-2 or 8-3 extends season. UM is what their record and ranking is, we are the underdogs based on that. Does not mean the team and fans are not expecting to win. UM has had a rise in rankings as season progressed we are back in range where we started is this where we stay... we will see. Our poor attendance games is still better than #2's best attendance. Hope both teams play their best this week. Let the chips fall where they may. Keep rallying the fans, GO GRIZ!!!
HelenaHandBasket
Well-known member
Diesel said:
I also agree that expectations are high, but people need to be a little realistic. People need to take a step back and really look at the program over the last 10 years and balance out realism with expectations.
spsyk said:
Don Read's record of mediocrity before becoming Griz head coach:
1968 Portland St. (OR) 4-6 0.40000
1969 Portland St. (OR) 6-4 0.60000
1970 Portland St. (OR) 6-4 0.60000
1971 Portland St. (OR) 4-5 0.44444
1974 Oregon 2-9 0.18182
1975 Oregon 3-8 0.27273
1976 Oregon 4-7 0.36364
1981 Portland St. (OR) 2-9 0.18182
1982 Portland St. (OR) 2-9 0.18182
1983 Portland St. (OR) 3-7 0.30000
1984 Portland St. (OR) 8-3 0.72727
1985 Portland St. (OR) 4-5-1 0.45000
A whopping 48-76-1, for a winning percentage of .390. THAT, my friend, is a track record of mediocrity.
Wonder what changed when he came to UM? :? :? :?
George Ferguson
Well-known member
rimrockgriz said:
Fans being complacent has nothing to do with how the Griz players play and the coaches on coach on Saturday's. I don't think Griz Nation is being complacent anyway, but even it were, fans "feelings" have zero baring on what happens on the football field.
havgrizfan said:
I appreciate your fandom Havgriz, and I agree. But, it is also true that a significant part of the fan base used to watch the Griz compete for national titles. It was EXPECTED...and the Team delivered regularly. Many still EXPECT it. Newer fans think what the Griz are doing now is sufficient. I don't. The Program's inability to return pure DOLA to the offensive line, win consistently on the road, play multiple home games in the playoffs, and dominate the conference troubles me. Count me as one of the guys who expects more. I don't apologize for it. Why would we not have very high expectations for the Program?
While it is true that fans absolutely do not impact how hard the coaches coach and the players play, these things do bear on the fans "feelings." I applaud the bright lights and pressure we put on the coaches to deliver...they get paid to do so.
Like I said in another thread...I think we are a year if not two years away. If Stitt doesn't deliver Semi-final appearances or beyond in the coming year or 2, his butt will get very warm. Just my opinion. I hope he delivers it this season.
big kahuna
Well-known member
So, let me get this straight: Griz have a legitimate shot at the playoffs, even with a loss at EWU, and you'd like to bench our senior starting quarterback, the same guy that hung 60+ points two weeks in a row, to get the next guy in line some experience? That's one of the more knee-jerk, dumb-ass comments of read on this board, which really is saying something.
George Ferguson
Well-known member
SoldierGriz said:
A couple of things I would say to that. 1. You have every right as a fan to feel the way you do too. I hesitate to use the word expect, as I don't believe donations, season tickets, travel expenses or being a MT taxpayer entitles to you really anything. I've never seen anything being entitled to me in any of the literature I've ever received from UM. So I use the word want instead of expect. But that's just me. But clearly, I want the same things you do.
Secondly, you kind of made my point for me. If you, and other fans know that there is no correlation between how a fan chooses to feel about what his favorite team should or shouldn't do, and it actually happening, then why do some people, especially on Egriz get so bent out of shape by the "support the team no matter what" type of fans? I mean, if you know those fans aren't causing Brady to throw interceptions, or causing the Griz to not reach their full potential, then why care how that fan/fans feel in the first place? Why even bother talking about something as trivial as "fan complacency"?
CV Griz Fan
Well-known member
havgrizfan said:
Hav:
You were student at UM during the glory years right? Maybe you can speak to the differences between those days and now. How crazy was Griz nation back then?
Would fans of that era accept today's situation? You'd be one that could bridge the gap with some credibility....
George Ferguson
Well-known member
CV Griz Fan said:
In my opinion, hell yes the fan base was completely different. I would say by the end of DD's sophomore year, it was HIGH HOPES, and more of a surprisingly good feeling that we were getting that good. Keep in mind, the fan base was so much smaller back then. The Griz had had little TV exposure, and, honestly hadn't won anything of note yet. Being students, we always kind of felt like the Griz were our little secret. We had this amazing school, amazing little stadium that got insanely loud, first with only 12,000 fans, and then with only 19,000. We played on a frozen field in November, and we had this special quarterback who was everybody's friend, and this special coach who was everybody's grandpa. We had a mascot that was allowed to drag opposing mascots in effigy behind a four wheeler, or chop them up with a chain saw.
At that time, I honestly never wanted the secret to get it out. I honestly wish it could have stayed that way forever. And I know for a fact, had the Griz somehow not beaten Marshall in 1995, there still would have been 1,000 or more people at the airport to meet them when they got home. The pride of MONTANA playing at that level was what it was about. That was a time BEFORE entitlement. That was a time when the Griz were a possibility more than an expectation. Even the next year, my last year at UM, when the Griz got hammered by Randy Moss, there was no agnst, no anger, no hostility. There was just so much pride, that we had this program that so was unique, so special, and we all, from Gordie Fix down to students like me, felt like we were apart of it.
I honestly believe the attitude that you are asking me to compare and contrast started to creep in more and more during the second expansion of Wash-Griz, and hit full tilt the morning after The Streak against the Cats ended. That is when I first noticed major changes in how fans felt about the Griz, about head coaches, and even about players. And it was confirmed by Johnny Montana in his interview with the Billings Gazette shortly after the Griz lost to McNeese in the playoffs. If you don't remember that interview, it was the first time I had ever heard a Griz player speak in a negative light about the things I'm talking about. He was very honest about how he perceived the fan base at that point.
Of course, how did we get there then, and to where we are now? The Griz WON, and they WON ALOT. They sell out one of the largest FCS stadiums in the country routinely, they're on TV every game, they had a record streak of making th eplayoffs that only NDSU has a chance to ever break. They grew a fanbase of students, Missoulians, and far few out-of-towners in this those days into a LEGION of Griz fans that spans the country honestly. Montana grew into a football machine, and the word Griz almost became mythical. And, I have to admit, even though I didn't feel that way when I was 21 years old, I wouldn't have traded any of the steps that got us to where we are now. No matter how pissed I get at a small portion of our fan base today. What Griz Nation is now, it was all worth it IMHO.
But again, CV, you've also seen a lot of my posts. I KNEW and have KNOWN since those glory days, it wasn't sustainable. I knew bad things would happen. I knew it would change, somehow some way. Maybe I'm a cynic. Maybe I'm a realist. But, no matter the stadium, the fans, the coaches, the recruiting advantages, I always knew and believed in this saying "nothing lasts forever." It has held true for ANY college football or basketball program that has ever had any kind of sustained dominance like Montana did. It held true for the likes of Alabama, Michigan, Miami, USC, Nebraska and Oklahoma in football. It's held true for Duke and North Carolina and Kentucky in basketball. Nothing lasts forever, and the Montana Grizzly football program was NEVER going to be immune to that.
I have no idea of that answered your question or not. But, there it is.
Nice post, Hav. I was just becoming a strong Griz fan as the DD years started.
When I started posting on the ugmb, I can't tell you how many times I posted that too many Griz fans didn't understand how good they had it. The Griz were on top of the world, or close to it, year after year. And it just couldn't last forever. It never does. So enjoy it and stop criticizing some of it, was my message. It actually lasted much longer than I expected, with Hauck managing to just keep winning the conference, going to the playoffs, and advancing deep in the playoffs or to Chatty most years.
During those years, the fan base, especially the internet fan base, got spoiled and increasingly worse. "Expecting" things. Who in their right mind would "expect" anything out of athletics at this level? Who do those people thing they are?
Then, with Hauck leaving, supposed problems in the program, JJ out a year, Pflu/O'Day fired (for no reason, it turns out), and the absolutely lack of leadership from Engstrom, the program lost its edge and declined. Still good, but back to reality.
I'm sorry, but I told people to enjoy it while they had it, because it couldn't possibly last. Too many didn't. They thought they were entitled. They "expected" conference championships and continuous trips to Chatty. Some dumb asses like Alpha complained continuous about Hauck not being a good coach because he didn't win the championship. Even he couldn't have been so dumb; was probably just his thing.
I still enjoy the Griz and every season. I love sport. I understand sport. It's how you play the game. It's not about winning every game and being champions. Those are just goals. Sometimes good teams get there or close; sometimes they don't. But they are still good/great teams.
The Griz have great fans and many of them, but there are also way too many bad fans, in my view. More now than ever. I'd take bandwagon fans any day over those bad fans.
When I started posting on the ugmb, I can't tell you how many times I posted that too many Griz fans didn't understand how good they had it. The Griz were on top of the world, or close to it, year after year. And it just couldn't last forever. It never does. So enjoy it and stop criticizing some of it, was my message. It actually lasted much longer than I expected, with Hauck managing to just keep winning the conference, going to the playoffs, and advancing deep in the playoffs or to Chatty most years.
During those years, the fan base, especially the internet fan base, got spoiled and increasingly worse. "Expecting" things. Who in their right mind would "expect" anything out of athletics at this level? Who do those people thing they are?
Then, with Hauck leaving, supposed problems in the program, JJ out a year, Pflu/O'Day fired (for no reason, it turns out), and the absolutely lack of leadership from Engstrom, the program lost its edge and declined. Still good, but back to reality.
I'm sorry, but I told people to enjoy it while they had it, because it couldn't possibly last. Too many didn't. They thought they were entitled. They "expected" conference championships and continuous trips to Chatty. Some dumb asses like Alpha complained continuous about Hauck not being a good coach because he didn't win the championship. Even he couldn't have been so dumb; was probably just his thing.
I still enjoy the Griz and every season. I love sport. I understand sport. It's how you play the game. It's not about winning every game and being champions. Those are just goals. Sometimes good teams get there or close; sometimes they don't. But they are still good/great teams.
The Griz have great fans and many of them, but there are also way too many bad fans, in my view. More now than ever. I'd take bandwagon fans any day over those bad fans.
Holy hell, I sure don't get some of you posters!
"which came first complacent fans or a mediocre team?" Every football thread on here runs to 17 pages of opinions and ideas (and insults and BS) but that doesn't seem like complacent fans. I brought my GF down for a game this year and her reaction to Griz Nation before/during/after the game was basically "WTF? These people are great!" and she grew up in Rider Nation where we are known from coast to coast as "the best fans in the world" (we ain't)
And mediocre team? We are so mediocre we've lost fewer games at home than years the stadium has been open. 6-6 is mediocre.
But the best comments are "back in the day the Griz fans would not have tolerated this...". And what exactly would the Griz fans have done about it? Tar and Feathers, out of town on a Rail? Grow up, we are Griz FANS, unless your last name is something like Washington or Sprunk, you have zero effect on the Griz success or failure.
Some of you sound a tad spoiled and delusional and might want to go trick or treating this year in a blue blazer, red tie, blonde mop wig and a big button that says "Make the GRIZ great again."
"which came first complacent fans or a mediocre team?" Every football thread on here runs to 17 pages of opinions and ideas (and insults and BS) but that doesn't seem like complacent fans. I brought my GF down for a game this year and her reaction to Griz Nation before/during/after the game was basically "WTF? These people are great!" and she grew up in Rider Nation where we are known from coast to coast as "the best fans in the world" (we ain't)
And mediocre team? We are so mediocre we've lost fewer games at home than years the stadium has been open. 6-6 is mediocre.
But the best comments are "back in the day the Griz fans would not have tolerated this...". And what exactly would the Griz fans have done about it? Tar and Feathers, out of town on a Rail? Grow up, we are Griz FANS, unless your last name is something like Washington or Sprunk, you have zero effect on the Griz success or failure.
Some of you sound a tad spoiled and delusional and might want to go trick or treating this year in a blue blazer, red tie, blonde mop wig and a big button that says "Make the GRIZ great again."
SaskGriz said:
I don't disagree with anything Hav is posting. I was in Missoula during the beginning of the "glory years." You are correct when you say Griz nation is very lucky and the "people are great." All true. It is also true that the Griz used to compete regularly for national championships. It is also OK for fans to want that back. It is also OK for fans to EXPECT the coaches to take them there. It is also Ok for fans to occasionally bitch about the program - particularly on a fan message board. I don't think that makes them spoiled, delusional, or "bad fans." It is absolutely true that fans bitching has zero impact on the production of the team. Lastly, it is also possible for fans to have these high expectations and still be 100% behind the Griz no matter what.
I hope the Griz run over ewu this weekend and gain momentum going into the Brawl. I hope Stitt hangs 60 on the cats. I hope they get a couple of home games, or travel to SDSU and bury them. I'd love to see them play at Sam Houston State - where I think they can win. Holy crap ----I just fired myself up! Time to shine Griz!
RayWill
Well-known member
I hope the Griz run over ewu this weekend and gain momentum going into the Brawl. I hope Stitt hangs 60 on the cats. I hope they get a couple of home games, or travel to SDSU and bury them. I'd love to see them play at Sam Houston State - where I think they can win. Holy crap ----I just fired myself up! Time to shine Griz!
Heck yeah :thumb:
Heck yeah :thumb:
CV Griz Fan
Well-known member
havgrizfan said:
You did answer my question. Great post. I think you crystallized the issue. Readers can see your passion for UM Football and how things really got started.....You also explain certain aspects of the Griz fan mentality.
It's easy to see why fans want to try to recapture some of that old magic.....
I've been a Griz fan for more than 60 years. And, yes, today's fan base is incredibly spoiled, thanks to Read, DD, Hauck and the like in the '90s and early 2000s. Those were the glory days, and we loved them, and some people foolishly thought they would last forever. But, nothing lasts forever, and that's reality. Can the Griz return to a national championship team caliber? Sure, but there are no guarantees and you cannot EXPECT it to happen every year. Just enjoy the ride, folks, even if there are some serious bumps along the way.
UMcheer2000
Well-known member
RayWill said:
Was that the send off blowout we gave them before they moved up? 45 something?
That. Was. Beautiful!
