Tell me what you would have done differently with the O-line

[grizcountry420]

When it comes to student-athlete academic progress, that old Ronald Reagan maxim: "Trust but verify !" should apply.

It's great that if a GRIZ player tells his coach he is doing great in his classes, but the coach should still talk to said GRIZ player's professors to verify that success and build up a good rapport with the UM's faculty. Our professors will appreciate the athletic department's active emphasis on academics as opposed to the hopeful neglect of a student-athlete's academic progress until it's too late for the kid to academically recover if he's been unknowingly struggling in class.

For kids known to be needing help, I agree, to some extent. But when are coaches supposed to do this--in their spare time? There aren't enough coaches to walk kids to all their classes.

I agree.. Coaches don't get paid to babysit.

 

[PlayerRep]

The line makes up 5/22 of your team not counting special teams. I would hope that we would try to bring in enough to have that group fill spots. i.e. at least 5 per year
10-3 (2)
11-4 (0)
12-5 (5)
13-1 (1)
14-4 (4)
If you look at what has left or retired we average 2.4 per year and we don't know how these are all going to stack out yet. I just think it is too important of a position to miss out on. You can go a year and miss any position, but you have to fill it out. If we don't get a TE this year we'll make it, but we have to get at least 3-4 who (can) at some point start. If we are doing a zone blocking scheme it is fine to have these smaller faster linemen, but the pro set is based on power running and I just don't think our linemen are going to manage enough. Can they do good? Yes. Will they? That remains to be seen. I have never said our line will be awful, I just don't think we've done a good job of recruiting the beef and the character to stick it out. Can this be fixed...yes it can. I hope the transfers fit well and we line out ok, but I'm not sold it will be ok yet.

This post pretty much sums up how I feel. A combination of too few recruited each year, and some bad luck with kids working out, quitting, or injuries. A team can never have too many hogs on the roster.

Yes, we should have recruited fewer receivers, so we could have more o-lineman? Or maybe fewer kickers? Or fewer corners? Or fewer linebackers, tight ends, and running backs.

 

[griz4life]

It's pretty standard for head coaches to have pay incentives in their contract for good team academic performance. Pflugrad and Hauck both had those incentives. It would be odd if Delaney didn't.
That pretty much answers the what's a coach to do, question. If he wants more than his base salary, he has to work on the academic performance of his team. The school sure seems to think a coach should be able to influence the academic performance of his players.

 

[PhxGriz]

Gotten rid of Gregorak!

I assume you meant Scott Gragg, the OL coach/Co-OC? Gregorak is the d-coordinator.

No, I meant Gregorak, I was trying to be a smart azz. I think he should be gone by year end if the D doesn't perform exceptionally well this year.

 

[kemajic]

I'm new to this board, but after hanging around for a week or two and reading posts, I must say the playerrep is a complete douche knuckle. I'm assuming is assholish personality keeps him lonely and relatively friendless. Unless of course he just moonlights as a dick hole on the internet and is really a nice guy... :roll:

Never, ever let anyone challenge your insight. And don't hold your breath on the last one.

 

[monte is a character]

The line makes up 5/22 of your team not counting special teams. I would hope that we would try to bring in enough to have that group fill spots. i.e. at least 5 per year
10-3 (2)
11-4 (0)
12-5 (5)
13-1 (1)
14-4 (4)
If you look at what has left or retired we average 2.4 per year and we don't know how these are all going to stack out yet. I just think it is too important of a position to miss out on. You can go a year and miss any position, but you have to fill it out. If we don't get a TE this year we'll make it, but we have to get at least 3-4 who (can) at some point start. If we are doing a zone blocking scheme it is fine to have these smaller faster linemen, but the pro set is based on power running and I just don't think our linemen are going to manage enough. Can they do good? Yes. Will they? That remains to be seen. I have never said our line will be awful, I just don't think we've done a good job of recruiting the beef and the character to stick it out. Can this be fixed...yes it can. I hope the transfers fit well and we line out ok, but I'm not sold it will be ok yet.

This post pretty much sums up how I feel. A combination of too few recruited each year, and some bad luck with kids working out, quitting, or injuries. A team can never have too many hogs on the roster.

Yes, we should have recruited fewer receivers, so we could have more o-lineman? Or maybe fewer kickers? Or fewer corners? Or fewer linebackers, tight ends, and running backs.

Looks like IroneagleXP has accurate insight. It is too bad that all Grizzly fans can not have the infinite football knowledge that you have.

 

[billingsgriz]

I agree Griz4life, and I am sure this staff has similar incentives to those of Hauck and Pflu's staff.

When your APR drops and your team GPA drops, I am sure Dennison took a dim view of that and I am sure the current president Engstrom does as well.

If a coach doesn't want to "babysit" his student-athletes and monitor their academic progress with his staff, he and they should not be coaching at the college level--maybe try the NFL, CFL, or arena ball where the staff has no such responsibility. College coaches are responsible for their student-athlete's academic progress or lack thereof--it is in almost every head coach's contract. And yes, The NCAA also monitors academics, and I think that is great !!!

If you don't both win on the field, graduate your kids, and keep them out of jail, you probably won't have a job. Just ask Mike Kramer. He won on the field, snapped The Streak, the Bobcats started winning again, but The Big Human couldn't get his kids to graduate or keep them out of jail, and wa-laa, The Shi##y Kitties administration showed him the door about 7 years ago and MSU was put on academic probation and lost 4 scholarships for 3-4 years due to an abysmal, unsatisfactory APR.

 

[SaskGriz]

I am lucky enough to work with Vic Stevenson, retired CFL OT,18 year vet and two time finalist for lineman of the year. Blocked for Flutie, played against Moon, etc. When I told him about Jackson Theibes being our guy on the back side and a converted TE, (which Vic was), his comment was "at least he will have good feet...and you can always run a guy around the back if you are quick enough." Here's hoping that's true.

 

[PlayerRep]

I am lucky enough to work with Vic Stevenson, retired CFL OT,18 year vet and two time finalist for lineman of the year. Blocked for Flutie, played against Moon, etc. When I told him about Jackson Theibes being our guy on the back side and a converted TE, (which Vic was), his comment was "at least he will have good feet...and you can always run a guy around the back if you are quick enough." Here's hoping that's true.

Theibes is also a tough kid. Another positive.

 

[granitegriz]

I think Vic hit the nail on the head. Here is wishing Jackson the best and a great season!

 

[speth]

I agree with many others who believe that the Griz did not recruit enough lineman over the last several years. losing two lineman like what happened this year is not unusual because injuries commonly occur. The Griz were light on depth even before they lost Poole and Schmaing. I am not a Rob Ash fan but I remember when he was first hired he complained that the Cats did not have enough O lineman. He said they need between 15 to 18 on the team. The reason is that the team needs that many to effectively practice because it needs to supply a scout team and the first and second units. Also lineman generally take time to develop and get stronger. You normally don't see many first or second year players start on the line. It may be that the Griz did not bring in more lineman the last several years because the recruits signed with another school. I would not blame them for refusing to take a second rate kid if they lost out on a desired recruit. I do recall that they lost out on one desired O lineman recruit a couple years ago. But what I saw against Wyoming was not bad. I think they will be fine as long as they don't have an injury problem. I also like the looks of the true freshmen O linemen and the the kids that have committed for next years recruiting class.

 

[PlayerRep]

I agree with many others who believe that the Griz did not recruit enough lineman over the last several years. losing two lineman like what happened this year is not unusual because injuries commonly occur. The Griz were light on depth even before they lost Poole and Schmaing. I am not a Rob Ash fan but I remember when he was first hired he complained that the Cats did not have enough O lineman. He said they need between 15 to 18 on the team. The reason is that the team needs that many to effectively practice because it needs to supply a scout team and the first and second units. Also lineman generally take time to develop and get stronger. You normally don't see many first or second year players start on the line. It may be that the Griz did not bring in more lineman the last several years because the recruits signed with another school. I would not blame them for refusing to take a second rate kid if they lost out on a desired recruit. I do recall that they lost out on one desired O lineman recruit a couple years ago. But what I saw against Wyoming was not bad. I think they will be fine as long as they don't have an injury problem. I also like the looks of the true freshmen O linemen and the the kids that have committed for next years recruiting class.

The MSU roster shows 14 o-lineman. 6 frosh/rs frosh, 3 soph, 4 junior and 1 senior. MSU does not have 15-18 lineman.

The UM roster, which includes Poole and doesn't include Schmaing, shows 16 o-lineman. 4 frosh/rs frosh, 8 soph, 1 junior (Schmaing's class) and 3 seniors (1 hurt).

UM has more lineman than MSU. MSU has only 8 lineman above frosh/rs frosh. UM has 12 lineman above frosh/rs frosh (including Poole and excluding Schmaing).

Can anyone think of any example where UM has had a returning starter o-lineman academically ineligible? Or how about any o-lineman on the two-deep depth chart academically ineligible?

Don't let the facts get in the way of your arguments or biases, guys.

 

[Umista]

One thing is for certain a team needs many linemen. That is one of the most difficult positions to recruit out of high school. All teams including the NFL tend to be short of good linemen.
Bobby Hauck used to moan about this quite often and he explained it to small guys like me and it made a lot of sense.
At the end of the day all of this falls on the coaches shoulders and it is his fault in any event. That issue of not having enough players is simply the head guys fault.
Right or wrong!
Us expert E-grizers are pure and very smart football sideliners and I am amazed that Delaney does not study the egriz board. Just think how great he would be!

 

[ABQCat]

All true. Nice fact based post. I however find it very interesting that the grizz are starting a converted TE that was previously cut from the team. The Cats and the eagles have each started a converted TE in the recent past, and make no mistake, in both cases it was because the OL was absolutely f'd.

 

[Umista]

QCat? We are starting a converted tight end that was cut from our team? That would be Old Billy from Omaha? QCat? Quit eating and drinking cans of Lucky Larger while smoking ground up driftwood.

Glad to see a msu grinder on our board. I thought most of you passed away after last years melt down.

Kinda hope msu beats belly high Saturday evening as it makes our league look weak unless the burpcats come through!

 

[speth]

I agree with many others who believe that the Griz did not recruit enough lineman over the last several years. losing two lineman like what happened this year is not unusual because injuries commonly occur. The Griz were light on depth even before they lost Poole and Schmaing. I am not a Rob Ash fan but I remember when he was first hired he complained that the Cats did not have enough O lineman. He said they need between 15 to 18 on the team. The reason is that the team needs that many to effectively practice because it needs to supply a scout team and the first and second units. Also lineman generally take time to develop and get stronger. You normally don't see many first or second year players start on the line. It may be that the Griz did not bring in more lineman the last several years because the recruits signed with another school. I would not blame them for refusing to take a second rate kid if they lost out on a desired recruit. I do recall that they lost out on one desired O lineman recruit a couple years ago. But what I saw against Wyoming was not bad. I think they will be fine as long as they don't have an injury problem. I also like the looks of the true freshmen O linemen and the the kids that have committed for next years recruiting class.

The MSU roster shows 14 o-lineman. 6 frosh/rs frosh, 3 soph, 4 junior and 1 senior. MSU does not have 15-18 lineman.

The UM roster, which includes Poole and doesn't include Schmaing, shows 16 o-lineman. 4 frosh/rs frosh, 8 soph, 1 junior (Schmaing's class) and 3 seniors (1 hurt).

UM has more lineman than MSU. MSU has only 8 lineman above frosh/rs frosh. UM has 12 lineman above frosh/rs frosh (including Poole and excluding Schmaing).

Can anyone think of any example where UM has had a returning starter o-lineman academically ineligible? Or how about any o-lineman on the two-deep depth chart academically ineligible?

Don't let the facts get in the way of your arguments or biases, guys.

Player rep - Your facts are not correct. I assume you are looking at the rosters published on the teams' websites. The Griz roster shows 14 O lineman (Jared Clark is listed twice). It looks like the Griz roster is the current roster which has over 100 players. The published Cat roster is the 90 man roster for training camp which expands when school starts. In addition the Cats starting center for last year who would be a senior this year quit the team. I am surprised that you would find my statements about lack of depth to be wrong. If you go back and look at the yearbooks for 2010 through 2012 you will see that the Griz had between 17 and 19 offensive linemen each year. In 2013 the number was down to 13. This year's team includes a converted walk on tight end who now starts (give him credit).

 

[bigkid]

I hope the line can gel a bit today and we run for 200+ yards but I tend to agree the offensive line reminds me of a redwood deck that's needed stain for the past few years.....neglected.

 

[PlayerRep]

I agree with many others who believe that the Griz did not recruit enough lineman over the last several years. losing two lineman like what happened this year is not unusual because injuries commonly occur. The Griz were light on depth even before they lost Poole and Schmaing. I am not a Rob Ash fan but I remember when he was first hired he complained that the Cats did not have enough O lineman. He said they need between 15 to 18 on the team. The reason is that the team needs that many to effectively practice because it needs to supply a scout team and the first and second units. Also lineman generally take time to develop and get stronger. You normally don't see many first or second year players start on the line. It may be that the Griz did not bring in more lineman the last several years because the recruits signed with another school. I would not blame them for refusing to take a second rate kid if they lost out on a desired recruit. I do recall that they lost out on one desired O lineman recruit a couple years ago. But what I saw against Wyoming was not bad. I think they will be fine as long as they don't have an injury problem. I also like the looks of the true freshmen O linemen and the the kids that have committed for next years recruiting class.

The MSU roster shows 14 o-lineman. 6 frosh/rs frosh, 3 soph, 4 junior and 1 senior. MSU does not have 15-18 lineman.

The UM roster, which includes Poole and doesn't include Schmaing, shows 16 o-lineman. 4 frosh/rs frosh, 8 soph, 1 junior (Schmaing's class) and 3 seniors (1 hurt).

UM has more lineman than MSU. MSU has only 8 lineman above frosh/rs frosh. UM has 12 lineman above frosh/rs frosh (including Poole and excluding Schmaing).

Can anyone think of any example where UM has had a returning starter o-lineman academically ineligible? Or how about any o-lineman on the two-deep depth chart academically ineligible?

Don't let the facts get in the way of your arguments or biases, guys.

Player rep - Your facts are not correct. I assume you are looking at the rosters published on the teams' websites. The Griz roster shows 14 O lineman (Jared Clark is listed twice). It looks like the Griz roster is the current roster which has over 100 players. The published Cat roster is the 90 man roster for training camp which expands when school starts. In addition the Cats starting center for last year who would be a senior this year quit the team. I am surprised that you would find my statements about lack of depth to be wrong. If you go back and look at the yearbooks for 2010 through 2012 you will see that the Griz had between 17 and 19 offensive linemen each year. In 2013 the number was down to 13. This year's team includes a converted walk on tight end who now starts (give him credit).

The Cat roster lists 98 players, not 90.

 

[Spanky]

The OL last year was nothing to rave about. The group this year,without some key returning players may turn out much improved.....time will tell.

 

[Eriul]

When it comes to student-athlete academic progress, that old Ronald Reagan maxim: "Trust but verify !" should apply.

It's great that if a GRIZ player tells his coach he is doing great in his classes, but the coach should still talk to said GRIZ player's professors to verify that success and build up a good rapport with the UM's faculty. Our professors will appreciate the athletic department's active emphasis on academics as opposed to the hopeful neglect of a student-athlete's academic progress until it's too late for the kid to academically recover if he's been unknowingly struggling in class.

For kids known to be needing help, I agree, to some extent. But when are coaches supposed to do this--in their spare time? There aren't enough coaches to walk kids to all their classes.

I agree.. Coaches don't get paid to babysit.

Uhh...yah they do...

It falls on their shoulders if the players fail classes so they better babysit