Tell me what you would have done differently with the O-line

[BWahlberg]

I strongly agree with nzone and Brint, the staff while not clairvoyant, was caught with its pants down by assuming they would have no attrition on the O line for 2014--they guessed wrong and the season hasn't even started. What happens if we lose 1-2 more linemen to injury as the season progresses ?

Given that the unexpected should be expected--injuries, grades, losing interest, etc., it was a huge mistake to only recruit 1 O lineman in 2013, given that Coach D and Gragg knew they had 3 starters on the line that were seniors and would need to be replaced in 2014. Coach D isn't responsible for 20111--Pflu is, but he is responsible for 2013 and given his longtime experience as a college football coach, the idea that kids will quit football, have career-ending injuries, become academically ineligible, transfer to another school, etc., is not a new concept to him.
Going into the 2013 season, he knew he would have big shoes to fill and yet he recruited only 1 O lineman, He would have made it if Poole's back injury hadn't flared up, Schmaing had hit the books, and Kalenki hadn't transferred, but going into the 2013 recruiting season, he had to know his margin of error on the O line for 2014 was very thin. And so he recruited 1 O lineman !!!

Hopefully, we will have at least 2-3 O lineman in future classes depending on scholarships available.

And when Schmaing's grades started going south last year, the staff should have been all over it. I don't know what degree of academic monitoring this staff does, but it would seem plausible that is a step down from The Hauck Era. The most important accomplishment these kids leave Missoula with is their degree, and if a kid doesn't want to study and earn good grades and a degree, he shouldn't be on the team.

Finally, what happened to the development of Clint LaRowe and Max Kelly that they get beat out by Jackson Thebes, who a year ago was cut from the team while Kelly and LaRowe were playing as backups last year. These two should have been ready to step up, but as evidenced by Thiebes now starting ahead of them, that didn't happen. Why? How does a walkon cut from the team in 2013 vault ahead of 2 scholarship O linemen in 2014 ?

Good review and good questions.

Call it an assumption but I think the staff looked at the massive 2012 recruiting class and figured 2013 needed more attention at skill positions such as DB/CB/WR/RB. Another thing that would probably be prudent would be to go back and look at who was leaving the team in 2012 and 2013 and how the staff recruited to handle those losses. As I recall we only lost 1 lineman from 2012-2013 to graduation, and then of course 3 this spring to graduation.

 

[BWahlberg]

Also with the bringing up of the "knowledge of Schmaing's grades" while this mostly comes as 2nd hand info here's the timeline as it was told to me:

1. Once end of semester grades came out team administrators were very surprised to learn he had failed most all of his classes. No one was made aware of a family issue and academic struggles. So that's roughly late-May/early June. At that point he was declared academically ineligible.

2. An attempt to "make up" the work was sought out but did not work out.

3. An appeal was submitted citing the family issue and he enrolled in summer classes.

4. As I'm told both sessions of summer class were completed with good grades and the approval from team administrators (maybe Jean Gee? Not sure here....) that he could return to the team.

5. This is my assumption but while John practiced with the team I'd bet his appeal was sent citing the family hardship and showing the renewed dedication to academics with the completion report of his summer classes.

6. Obviously, we know the result, appeal denied.

-----------

If that's the timeline that makes it very challenging for a coaching staff to "prepare" for his departure anymore than they have. They snagged a JuCo, obviously didn't find a drop-down they liked, and worked Schmaing back in at 2nd string so Thiebes was able to continue to get 1st string reps and become experienced as possible at this spot in case the appeal is turned down. In the event if the appeal was agreed upon and reversed, plugging John back in would be no big deal. However with this method the coaches took we now have a left tackle that has played with the 1st string all fall camp (instead of just this one week of practice) and has gone up against Wags and Holmes instead of backup DE's.

I'd say considering the timeline, the unknowns, and the season ahead I think the coaches did exactly the right thing to prepare the O-line and the offense.

 

[garizzalies]

so the staff has no way of knowing how a player is doing in school until the semester is over?

 

[go96griz]

1. did Schmaing play as a true frosh? If so he could sit out a redshirt season and come back next year, couldn't he?

Schmaing was a redshirt in 2011. RS Fr in 2012; RS So in 2013. He loses his RS 2014 season to ineligibility but has his RS Sr season in 2015 if he has the motivation to stay with it. I hope he does; he was a really good player in 2013; he could be great in 2015.

Bill Speltz just tweeted a few hours ago that Schmaing will use his redshirt this season. This is confusing because I thought John redshirted in 2011 as seen in his bio.

http://www.gogriz.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/john_schmaing_769145.html

 

[PlayerRep]

Where's all the talk of how smart and anticipating the coaches were to switch Thiebes from TE to o-line half way through spring ball, so that he was in position to add depth and be a starter this fall?

 

[grizindabox]

Where's all the talk of how smart and anticipating the coaches were to switch Thiebes from TE to o-line half way through spring ball, so that he was in position to add depth and be a starter this fall?

or desperation?

 

[spsyk]

Coaching staff should have anticipated Schmaing, academic prowess, considering it was a problem last season, and the same with Poole's back problems! which also were a problem last season.

With that said, preparation we're being adjusted during fall camp, preparing under class men to get ready, and ready they will be.

This OL will surprise the faithful, and maybe will excel, besides, what choice is there game time is six day away.

Schmaing, should work on his degree, and look after his mother, while Poole should evaluate his back problems, get his degree, and not have to live medicated to get thru live.

So, every time a player has low but acceptable grades or a nagging injury, we should get replacements lined up? That's pretty funny. I don't think there's enough room on the roster, or enough schollies, to do that.

What is pretty funny, is someone educated at a Ivy League school, demonstrating his ignorance.

Low but acceptable grades don't put someone in the position to be in-eligible, which is the case for Schmaing, don't know all the circumstances, for his predicament, however he can't play.

And again forget about football, he should concertante on family and school and earn his degree, and come away with degree.

And Poole's situation is a lot more than a nagging injury, why put yourself in a position to have a life long nagging injury, again walk away and finish his education..

There is no statistics for you to throw around in this narrative, so your ignorance is bliss.

The coaching staff should have been aware of the situation, and it appears they were by preparing under class men in fall camp, all is not perfect, although all is well.

 

[PlayerRep]

Coaching staff should have anticipated Schmaing, academic prowess, considering it was a problem last season, and the same with Poole's back problems! which also were a problem last season.

With that said, preparation we're being adjusted during fall camp, preparing under class men to get ready, and ready they will be.

This OL will surprise the faithful, and maybe will excel, besides, what choice is there game time is six day away.

Schmaing, should work on his degree, and look after his mother, while Poole should evaluate his back problems, get his degree, and not have to live medicated to get thru live.

So, every time a player has low but acceptable grades or a nagging injury, we should get replacements lined up? That's pretty funny. I don't think there's enough room on the roster, or enough schollies, to do that.

What is pretty funny, is someone educated at a Ivy League school, demonstrating his ignorance.

Low but acceptable grades don't put someone in the position to be in-eligible, which is the case for Schmaing, don't know all the circumstances, for his predicament, however he can't play.

And again forget about football, he should concertante on family and school and earn his degree, and come away with degree.

And Poole's situation is a lot more than a nagging injury, why put yourself in a position to have a life long nagging injury, again walk away and finish his education..

There is no statistics for you to throw around in this narrative, so your ignorance is bliss.

The coaching staff should have been aware of the situation, and it appears they were by preparing under class men in fall camp, all is not perfect, although all is well.

I like how you just argued against yourself (from your first post) in your last post, and supported my argument. In your first post, you said: "Coaching staff should have anticipated Schmaing, academic prowess, considering it was a problem last season". Note the "should have anticipated the problem" because it (whatever that is) was a problem last season. Then, in your last post, you said: "Low but acceptable grades don't put someone in the position to be in-eligible".

There are lots of stats to throw around, one being that only a smaller percentage of players with lower but acceptable grades eventually become academically ineligible.

Can tell you didn't have an Ivy education, or anything close to it.

 

[spsyk]

Coaching staff should have anticipated Schmaing, academic prowess, considering it was a problem last season, and the same with Poole's back problems! which also were a problem last season.

With that said, preparation we're being adjusted during fall camp, preparing under class men to get ready, and ready they will be.

This OL will surprise the faithful, and maybe will excel, besides, what choice is there game time is six day away.

Schmaing, should work on his degree, and look after his mother, while Poole should evaluate his back problems, get his degree, and not have to live medicated to get thru live.

So, every time a player has low but acceptable grades or a nagging injury, we should get replacements lined up? That's pretty funny. I don't think there's enough room on the roster, or enough schollies, to do that.

What is pretty funny, is someone educated at a Ivy League school, demonstrating his ignorance.

Low but acceptable grades don't put someone in the position to be in-eligible, which is the case for Schmaing, don't know all the circumstances, for his predicament, however he can't play.

And again forget about football, he should concertante on family and school and earn his degree, and come away with degree.

And Poole's situation is a lot more than a nagging injury, why put yourself in a position to have a life long nagging injury, again walk away and finish his education..

There is no statistics for you to throw around in this narrative, so your ignorance is bliss.

The coaching staff should have been aware of the situation, and it appears they were by preparing under class men in fall camp, all is not perfect, although all is well.

I like how you just argued against yourself (from your first post) in your last post, and supported my argument. In your first post, you said: "Coaching staff should have anticipated Schmaing, academic prowess, considering it was a problem last season". Note the "should have anticipated the problem" because it (whatever that is) was a problem last season. Then, in your last post, you said: "Low but acceptable grades don't put someone in the position to be in-eligible".

There are lots of stats to throw around, one being that only a smaller percentage of players with lower but acceptable grades eventually become academically ineligible.

Can tell you didn't have an Ivy education, or anything close to it.

Your right about education, I didn't qualify for affirmative action, had a family to to support,and at the time that was more important.

 

[billingsgriz]

Amen to garilizzies' comments on academic monitoring. If this staff didn't know that Schmaing was struggling until the end of the semester, that is too late, especially when we all know the entire school year consists of only two semesters, excluding the summer session. And especially for sophomores and above, they must pass prerequisite classes to take other classes in their major field of study on the way to earning their degree.

I hope this staff modifies its monitoring of our kids so they know if not week-by-week how they are doing academically, at least bi-monthly, monthly and mid-semester.

Waiting to learn how a student-athlete is performing in the classroom until the end of the semester is too late if he is struggling, as evidenced by Schmaing's case !!! The time to catch a student-athlete's academic struggles is two weeks or the first month of the semester not at the semester's end. And this academic monitoring needs to include a coaching staff member personally visiting with each player's professors so that problems are caught early and also to reward and compliment those kids excelling in the classroom. Asking a kid how he's doing in class at the end of the semester is woefully inadequate !!!

Hopefully, the student-athlete academic center once completed will greatly help the staff in this academic monitoring of their players !!!

 

[griz4life]

Delaney has done well with kids struggling the classroom before -- Canada comes to mind. Why does anyone think the Schmaing case was any different? Just because some egriz poster says Schmaing's academic struggles were a late discovery doesn't make it so.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

Amen to garilizzies' comments on academic monitoring. If this staff didn't know that Schmaing was struggling until the end of the semester, that is too late, especially when we all know the entire school year consists of only two semesters, excluding the summer session. And especially for sophomores and above, they must pass prerequisite classes to take other classes in their major field of study on the way to earning their degree.

I hope this staff modifies its monitoring of our kids so they know if not week-by-week how they are doing academically, at least bi-monthly, monthly and mid-semester.

Waiting to learn how a student-athlete is performing in the classroom until the end of the semester is too late if he is struggling, as evidenced by Schmaing's case !!! The time to catch a student-athlete's academic struggles is two weeks or the first month of the semester not at the semester's end. And this academic monitoring needs to include a coaching staff member personally visiting with each player's professors so that problems are caught early and also to reward and compliment those kids excelling in the classroom. Asking a kid how he's doing in class at the end of the semester is woefully inadequate !!!

Hopefully, the student-athlete academic center once completed will greatly help the staff in this academic monitoring of their players !!!

Where's the "personal responsibility" crowd now? Usually they're out in droves, telling us how much better things were "back in the day," lol.

 

[billingsgriz]

When it comes to student-athlete academic progress, that old Ronald Reagan maxim: "Trust but verify !" should apply.

It's great that if a GRIZ player tells his coach he is doing great in his classes, but the coach should still talk to said GRIZ player's professors to verify that success and build up a good rapport with the UM's faculty. Our professors will appreciate the athletic department's active emphasis on academics as opposed to the hopeful neglect of a student-athlete's academic progress until it's too late for the kid to academically recover if he's been unknowingly struggling in class.

 

[IroneagleXP]

Coaching staff should have anticipated Schmaing, academic prowess, considering it was a problem last season, and the same with Poole's back problems! which also were a problem last season.

With that said, preparation we're being adjusted during fall camp, preparing under class men to get ready, and ready they will be.

This OL will surprise the faithful, and maybe will excel, besides, what choice is there game time is six day away.

Schmaing, should work on his degree, and look after his mother, while Poole should evaluate his back problems, get his degree, and not have to live medicated to get thru live.

So, every time a player has low but acceptable grades or a nagging injury, we should get replacements lined up? That's pretty funny. I don't think there's enough room on the roster, or enough schollies, to do that.

What is pretty funny, is someone educated at a Ivy League school, demonstrating his ignorance.

Low but acceptable grades don't put someone in the position to be in-eligible, which is the case for Schmaing, don't know all the circumstances, for his predicament, however he can't play.

And again forget about football, he should concertante on family and school and earn his degree, and come away with degree.

And Poole's situation is a lot more than a nagging injury, why put yourself in a position to have a life long nagging injury, again walk away and finish his education..

There is no statistics for you to throw around in this narrative, so your ignorance is bliss.

The coaching staff should have been aware of the situation, and it appears they were by preparing under class men in fall camp, all is not perfect, although all is well.

I like how you just argued against yourself (from your first post) in your last post, and supported my argument. In your first post, you said: "Coaching staff should have anticipated Schmaing, academic prowess, considering it was a problem last season". Note the "should have anticipated the problem" because it (whatever that is) was a problem last season. Then, in your last post, you said: "Low but acceptable grades don't put someone in the position to be in-eligible".

There are lots of stats to throw around, one being that only a smaller percentage of players with lower but acceptable grades eventually become academically ineligible.

Can tell you didn't have an Ivy education, or anything close to it.

I'm new to this board, but after hanging around for a week or two and reading posts, I must say the playerrep is a complete douche knuckle. I'm assuming is assholish personality keeps him lonely and relatively friendless. Unless of course he just moonlights as a dick hole on the internet and is really a nice guy... :roll:

 

[PlayerRep]

So, every time a player has low but acceptable grades or a nagging injury, we should get replacements lined up? That's pretty funny. I don't think there's enough room on the roster, or enough schollies, to do that.

What is pretty funny, is someone educated at a Ivy League school, demonstrating his ignorance.

Low but acceptable grades don't put someone in the position to be in-eligible, which is the case for Schmaing, don't know all the circumstances, for his predicament, however he can't play.

And again forget about football, he should concertante on family and school and earn his degree, and come away with degree.

And Poole's situation is a lot more than a nagging injury, why put yourself in a position to have a life long nagging injury, again walk away and finish his education..

There is no statistics for you to throw around in this narrative, so your ignorance is bliss.

The coaching staff should have been aware of the situation, and it appears they were by preparing under class men in fall camp, all is not perfect, although all is well.

I like how you just argued against yourself (from your first post) in your last post, and supported my argument. In your first post, you said: "Coaching staff should have anticipated Schmaing, academic prowess, considering it was a problem last season". Note the "should have anticipated the problem" because it (whatever that is) was a problem last season. Then, in your last post, you said: "Low but acceptable grades don't put someone in the position to be in-eligible".

There are lots of stats to throw around, one being that only a smaller percentage of players with lower but acceptable grades eventually become academically ineligible.

Can tell you didn't have an Ivy education, or anything close to it.

Your right about education, I didn't qualify for affirmative action, had a family to to support,and at the time that was more important.

And apparently still remain ignorant, and a dick.

 

[PlayerRep]

Amen to garilizzies' comments on academic monitoring. If this staff didn't know that Schmaing was struggling until the end of the semester, that is too late, especially when we all know the entire school year consists of only two semesters, excluding the summer session. And especially for sophomores and above, they must pass prerequisite classes to take other classes in their major field of study on the way to earning their degree.

I hope this staff modifies its monitoring of our kids so they know if not week-by-week how they are doing academically, at least bi-monthly, monthly and mid-semester.

Waiting to learn how a student-athlete is performing in the classroom until the end of the semester is too late if he is struggling, as evidenced by Schmaing's case !!! The time to catch a student-athlete's academic struggles is two weeks or the first month of the semester not at the semester's end. And this academic monitoring needs to include a coaching staff member personally visiting with each player's professors so that problems are caught early and also to reward and compliment those kids excelling in the classroom. Asking a kid how he's doing in class at the end of the semester is woefully inadequate !!!

Hopefully, the student-athlete academic center once completed will greatly help the staff in this academic monitoring of their players !!!

I agree to some extent. However, if it's true that he was devoting time to his family or something like that (perhaps the reason for the appeal), who's to say that much could have been done about the situation. "I'm sorry kid, but you need to eligible so we can't allow you to be distracted by your family or spend time with them away from Missoula." I don't know the circumstances, of course.

I don't know how the academic center will improve monitoring. The academic advisors won't even office there. I'm told that kids don't like to hang around the athletic facilities at night or on weekends when they're not involved the activities of their sports, as they like to get away where they were (too) much of the day.

 

[PlayerRep]

When it comes to student-athlete academic progress, that old Ronald Reagan maxim: "Trust but verify !" should apply.

It's great that if a GRIZ player tells his coach he is doing great in his classes, but the coach should still talk to said GRIZ player's professors to verify that success and build up a good rapport with the UM's faculty. Our professors will appreciate the athletic department's active emphasis on academics as opposed to the hopeful neglect of a student-athlete's academic progress until it's too late for the kid to academically recover if he's been unknowingly struggling in class.

For kids known to be needing help, I agree, to some extent. But when are coaches supposed to do this--in their spare time? There aren't enough coaches to walk kids to all their classes.

 

[PlayerRep]

So, every time a player has low but acceptable grades or a nagging injury, we should get replacements lined up? That's pretty funny. I don't think there's enough room on the roster, or enough schollies, to do that.

What is pretty funny, is someone educated at a Ivy League school, demonstrating his ignorance.

Low but acceptable grades don't put someone in the position to be in-eligible, which is the case for Schmaing, don't know all the circumstances, for his predicament, however he can't play.

And again forget about football, he should concertante on family and school and earn his degree, and come away with degree.

And Poole's situation is a lot more than a nagging injury, why put yourself in a position to have a life long nagging injury, again walk away and finish his education..

There is no statistics for you to throw around in this narrative, so your ignorance is bliss.

The coaching staff should have been aware of the situation, and it appears they were by preparing under class men in fall camp, all is not perfect, although all is well.

I like how you just argued against yourself (from your first post) in your last post, and supported my argument. In your first post, you said: "Coaching staff should have anticipated Schmaing, academic prowess, considering it was a problem last season". Note the "should have anticipated the problem" because it (whatever that is) was a problem last season. Then, in your last post, you said: "Low but acceptable grades don't put someone in the position to be in-eligible".

There are lots of stats to throw around, one being that only a smaller percentage of players with lower but acceptable grades eventually become academically ineligible.

Can tell you didn't have an Ivy education, or anything close to it.

I'm new to this board, but after hanging around for a week or two and reading posts, I must say the playerrep is a complete douche knuckle. I'm assuming is assholish personality keeps him lonely and relatively friendless. Unless of course he just moonlights as a dick hole on the internet and is really a nice guy... :roll:

Proving once again that (virtually) all EWU posters are dickheads.

 

[monte is a character]

The line makes up 5/22 of your team not counting special teams. I would hope that we would try to bring in enough to have that group fill spots. i.e. at least 5 per year
10-3 (2)
11-4 (0)
12-5 (5)
13-1 (1)
14-4 (4)
If you look at what has left or retired we average 2.4 per year and we don't know how these are all going to stack out yet. I just think it is too important of a position to miss out on. You can go a year and miss any position, but you have to fill it out. If we don't get a TE this year we'll make it, but we have to get at least 3-4 who (can) at some point start. If we are doing a zone blocking scheme it is fine to have these smaller faster linemen, but the pro set is based on power running and I just don't think our linemen are going to manage enough. Can they do good? Yes. Will they? That remains to be seen. I have never said our line will be awful, I just don't think we've done a good job of recruiting the beef and the character to stick it out. Can this be fixed...yes it can. I hope the transfers fit well and we line out ok, but I'm not sold it will be ok yet.

This post pretty much sums up how I feel. A combination of too few recruited each year, and some bad luck with kids working out, quitting, or injuries. A team can never have too many hogs on the roster.

 

[monte is a character]

Last year with our three NFL lineman we had trouble running the ball in short yardage situations. In reviewing the tape, it appeared--at times--they didn't know who to block.
Sometimes schemes negate size and experience.

I agree. Everyone thinks that playing in the NFL means you can coach-up kids. Not the case.