Conference Realignment: Here we go again

[HelenaHandBasket]

I agree that they aren't going to the MWC anytime soon, but I honestly believe Dixie and UIW will move up before UM and MSU do. Both programs seem like they realize they're in no position to dictate terms and seem to want to play at a higher level. Probably not soon for them, but with UM it feels like it's probably not ever.

I know nothing of Dixie State, but I can assure you UIW has about ZERO chance of moving up. They are in my backyard and they just don’t have those aspirations, I don’t believe.

Yet they couldn't wait to join a conference that has stated that one of it's biggest ambitions is to become a FBS conference.

 

[Griz til I die]

'If we wait until there's a guaranteed playoff system, Central Washington or Incarnate Word or whatever Dixie calls themselves now may well have taken any available slot for us".
Look, Dixie and UIW are never going to get an invite to the MWC even if our window of opportunity closes in on us to take a MWC invite. He said if we wait, then they may take any available slot that would've been for us. Guarantee you if the Mountain West comes calling for us, we're gonna take it, but even if we don't then I can think of several other schools they would look at before us. So if you wanna split hairs, then sure that's not exactly what he said, however he was basically implying that any way!

I agree that they aren't going to the MWC anytime soon, but I honestly believe Dixie and UIW will move up before UM and MSU do. Both programs seem like they realize they're in no position to dictate terms and seem to want to play at a higher level. Probably not soon for them, but with UM it feels like it's probably not ever.

I think deep down we want to move up, but at the same time they want to see what happens. Maybe by now they know what's going to happen at the FBS and they can begin discussions and start the decision making process, but I think deep down regardless of what decision they make, they're worried about being scrutinized. Half the fan base wants to stay, half the fan base wants to move up. There's no way to please everyone. If the AD gets wind of the viability of a G5 playoff, then I definitely think they will begin the necessary ground work to begin moving up.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

I agree that they aren't going to the MWC anytime soon, but I honestly believe Dixie and UIW will move up before UM and MSU do. Both programs seem like they realize they're in no position to dictate terms and seem to want to play at a higher level. Probably not soon for them, but with UM it feels like it's probably not ever.

I think deep down we want to move up, but at the same time they want to see what happens. Maybe by now they know what's going to happen at the FBS and they can begin discussions and start the decision making process, but I think deep down regardless of what decision they make, they're worried about being scrutinized. Half the fan base wants to stay, half the fan base wants to move up. There's no way to please everyone. If the AD gets wind of the viability of a G5 playoff, then I definitely think they will begin the necessary ground work to begin moving up.

I hope you're right. If we begin the process of considering making the decision to assess the viability of doing a study on how to start thinking about analyzing the prospect of deciding whether to make the leap, we could be playing FBS ball by 2045.

 

[Griz Addict]

Agreed! Why even discuss a move up until a better system is in place that includes playoffs! Poinsettia bowl sounds like bull shit!

FCS is going to continue to get more and more watered down, look at the year end polls and schools left for 2022:

1 North Dakota State (24)
2 Montana State
3 X James Madison - FBS
4 X Sam Houston - FBS
5 South Dakota State
6 Montana
7 East Tennessee State
8 Villanova
9 Eastern Washington
10 Kennesaw State
11 Sacramento State
12 UT Martin
13 UIW
14 Missouri State
15 Southeastern Louisiana
16 UC Davis
17 Southern Illinois
18 Stephen F. Austin
19 Jackson State – Potential playoffs, Celebration Bowl
20 South Dakota
21 Princeton – No playoffs
22 Holy Cross
23 Dartmouth – No playoffs
24 Florida A&M – Potential playoffs, Celebration Bowl
25 Northern Iowa

That's a total of six teams of the Top 25 "best" that won't be in the playoffs in 2022. Add in future schedules:

Montana Future Schedules: https://fbschedules.com/ncaa/montana/

What's the most attractive game on that schedule? South Dakota next year? No Griz fan is looking forward to Butler, Morehead State, Western Carolina, Dixie State. How about future schedules for Wyoming as a reasonable MWC comparison?

Wyoming Future Schedule: https://fbschedules.com/ncaa/wyoming/

This list includes Illinois, BYU, Texas Tech, Texas, App State, Arizona State, Utah, Colorado, Cal, Arizona as a starting point. FCS playoffs averaged just over 8k per game. Ratings for the two bowl games in Frisco were also similar to that of the FCS title game and those games were on a Tuesday or Thursday.

More money, better opponents, more exposure, better athletes, better product. How can people continue to think that these playoffs are where we need to be, or more importantly that these playoffs will continue to matter? 1995, 2001 were incredible years and good for the University. Montana fans care more than about any other FCS program out there, but FCS isn't where this University belongs.

Spot on. People obviously don't want Montana to have national recognition and to play meaningless teams in a meaningless playoff bracket. So great watching Montana becoming more irrelevant with AL the move ups and playing even more irrelevant teams that barely draw 5k people! So fantastic!

 

[Pounder]

That's exactly what I've been saying. If the G5 decides to form a playoff system, I could definitely see both the Big Sky and the Valley wanting to move up and join G5, and with the new NCAA constitution not far off, I don't that could prevent the Big Sky and MVFC from moving up. Of course each of these conferences would need to kick some teams out. Here's who I think could and couldn't do it from each of those conferences.

Big Sky teams that could: UM, MSU, Weber, Idaho, UC Davis, NAU (they could, but would they want to), maybe SAC, and maybe Cal Poly.

Big Sky teams that couldn't: UNC (would likely join the WAC), ISU (would also probably join the WAC or move down), PSU (probably join the Pioneer League and quit offering scholarships, and maybe the WAC or Big West for other sports), and Eastern (they would likely want to move up but they got work to do. No way current admin would let them. Therefore would join the WAC).

MVFC teams that could: NDSU, SDSU, S. Illinois, Illinois State, Missouri State, UNI, and maybe UND

MVFC teams that couldn't: South Dakota (Likely join OVC), Indiana State (likely join OVC), W. Illinois (already considering joining OVC), and Youngstown State (probably could move up, but I don't think they would. Therefore would join OVC).

Only problem is the WAC has already stated they want to move up as a conference and 2-3 of their programs are already expanding their facilities

That was before NMSU and Sam H got their call ups. Pretty much forget it now.

 

[Pounder]

https://www.extrapointsmb.com/portland-state-football-fcs-big-sky-study/

Are you a subscriber? I don’t see myself getting $75 of value to access that report, and I spent 2 years at Portland State and my daughter graduated from there.

The Oregonian columnist mentioned the piece in his piece, noted that the PSU President appears committed to D-1, and there’s no inkling of a plan otherwise. https://www.oregonlive.com/sports/john_canzano/2022/01/canzano-portland-state-in-search-of-a-sports-miracle.html

Yet if it wasn’t for the Kobayashi Maru that is the position of the PSU Athletic Department at this point (shutting down the whole thing after spending $50 million on the Pavilion and related building upgrades is perhaps the most foolish option, despite that being possibly the prevailing wish among students who otherwise are paying the freight for the department), the TV market would possibly be more palatable to the broadcast bigwigs who are helping drive these decisions. After all, I can think of two schools with better resumes than a couple of the ones the Big 12 already invited, but market size seems a consideration.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Are you a subscriber? I don’t see myself getting $75 of value to access that report, and I spent 2 years at Portland State and my daughter graduated from there.

Negative

 

[EverettGriz]

Agreed! Why even discuss a move up until a better system is in place that includes playoffs! Poinsettia bowl sounds like bull shit!

FCS is going to continue to get more and more watered down, look at the year end polls and schools left for 2022:

1 North Dakota State (24)
2 Montana State
3 X James Madison - FBS
4 X Sam Houston - FBS
5 South Dakota State
6 Montana
7 East Tennessee State
8 Villanova
9 Eastern Washington
10 Kennesaw State
11 Sacramento State
12 UT Martin
13 UIW
14 Missouri State
15 Southeastern Louisiana
16 UC Davis
17 Southern Illinois
18 Stephen F. Austin
19 Jackson State – Potential playoffs, Celebration Bowl
20 South Dakota
21 Princeton – No playoffs
22 Holy Cross
23 Dartmouth – No playoffs
24 Florida A&M – Potential playoffs, Celebration Bowl
25 Northern Iowa

That's a total of six teams of the Top 25 "best" that won't be in the playoffs in 2022. Add in future schedules:

Montana Future Schedules: https://fbschedules.com/ncaa/montana/

What's the most attractive game on that schedule? South Dakota next year? No Griz fan is looking forward to Butler, Morehead State, Western Carolina, Dixie State. How about future schedules for Wyoming as a reasonable MWC comparison?

Wyoming Future Schedule: https://fbschedules.com/ncaa/wyoming/

This list includes Illinois, BYU, Texas Tech, Texas, App State, Arizona State, Utah, Colorado, Cal, Arizona as a starting point. FCS playoffs averaged just over 8k per game. Ratings for the two bowl games in Frisco were also similar to that of the FCS title game and those games were on a Tuesday or Thursday.

More money, better opponents, more exposure, better athletes, better product. How can people continue to think that these playoffs are where we need to be, or more importantly that these playoffs will continue to matter? 1995, 2001 were incredible years and good for the University. Montana fans care more than about any other FCS program out there, but FCS isn't where this University belongs.

I don’t know how I missed this post on my first read of this thread, but it is spot on perfect, Portland. Well done.

 

[AZGrizFan]

FCS is going to continue to get more and more watered down, look at the year end polls and schools left for 2022:

1 North Dakota State (24)
2 Montana State
3 X James Madison - FBS
4 X Sam Houston - FBS
5 South Dakota State
6 Montana
7 East Tennessee State
8 Villanova
9 Eastern Washington
10 Kennesaw State
11 Sacramento State
12 UT Martin
13 UIW
14 Missouri State
15 Southeastern Louisiana
16 UC Davis
17 Southern Illinois
18 Stephen F. Austin
19 Jackson State – Potential playoffs, Celebration Bowl
20 South Dakota
21 Princeton – No playoffs
22 Holy Cross
23 Dartmouth – No playoffs
24 Florida A&M – Potential playoffs, Celebration Bowl
25 Northern Iowa

That's a total of six teams of the Top 25 "best" that won't be in the playoffs in 2022. Add in future schedules:

Montana Future Schedules: https://fbschedules.com/ncaa/montana/

What's the most attractive game on that schedule? South Dakota next year? No Griz fan is looking forward to Butler, Morehead State, Western Carolina, Dixie State. How about future schedules for Wyoming as a reasonable MWC comparison?

Wyoming Future Schedule: https://fbschedules.com/ncaa/wyoming/

This list includes Illinois, BYU, Texas Tech, Texas, App State, Arizona State, Utah, Colorado, Cal, Arizona as a starting point. FCS playoffs averaged just over 8k per game. Ratings for the two bowl games in Frisco were also similar to that of the FCS title game and those games were on a Tuesday or Thursday.

More money, better opponents, more exposure, better athletes, better product. How can people continue to think that these playoffs are where we need to be, or more importantly that these playoffs will continue to matter? 1995, 2001 were incredible years and good for the University. Montana fans care more than about any other FCS program out there, but FCS isn't where this University belongs.

I don’t know how I missed this post on my first read of this thread, but it is spot on perfect, Portland. Well done.

Maybe THIS explains how UNI keeps making the playoffs? :lol: :lol:

 

[Ursa Major]

I can’t argue that, HHB.

Well, I can. If it would’ve made better decisions, we probably wouldn’t have had the Oslo Incident of 2006 when EG and I had to bail you out using the last few Krones in our murses.

I’m forever grateful for the assistance in that delicate situation. However, I think that was a minor sacrifice compared to the time in 2008 when you roughed up and refused to pay the coupler in Macau over a push bet on rebounds in a preseason game featuring Dayton and Elon.

Both EG and I had to donate a kidney to bail you out. That poor 5 year old girl that got EG’s kidney was still suffering from a catastrophic hangover for 3 days after the transplant before the American embassy was able to chopper us to freedom.

There’s also the 2014 Chicago Incident when EG bet the over on the 75 foul line called in the NCU vs. Southern Utah game with the Castellono family. It didn’t help when the bookie texted him, so sorry only 74 fouls and EG responded , #BSC. The Castellono family was known for castrating bettors that don’t pay. Let’s just say, all gave some that night but some gave all.

 

[Copper Griz]

Maybe someone on here can explain how the hell the U of M or MSU is going to cover the costs associated with moving up? Increase student fees like JMU requires? How do you fund the other athletic programs? Want and able to, are two very separate categories here. Asking kids to pay more In this economy seems like a stretch. Yes, a marginal increase can be absorbed. Moving up means more than a marginal increase. Enrollment is already an issue and adding fees seems counterintuitive. Let’s not forget the BOR. are they going to embrace going to the next level? I also don’t think TV revenue is going to be the panacea some think. I personally would like to see both teams move up. The NCAA made a giant mess of things. I just don’t know where the money for moving up comes from.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Well, I can. If it would’ve made better decisions, we probably wouldn’t have had the Oslo Incident of 2006 when EG and I had to bail you out using the last few Krones in our murses.

I’m forever grateful for the assistance in that delicate situation. However, I think that was a minor sacrifice compared to the time in 2008 when you roughed up and refused to pay the coupler in Macau over a push bet on rebounds in a preseason game featuring Dayton and Elon.

Both EG and I had to donate a kidney to bail you out. That poor 5 year old girl that got EG’s kidney was still suffering from a catastrophic hangover for 3 days after the transplant before the American embassy was able to chopper us to freedom.

There’s also the 2014 Chicago Incident when EG bet the over on the 75 foul line called in the NCU vs. Southern Utah game with the Castellono family. It didn’t help when the bookie texted him, so sorry only 74 fouls and EG responded , #BSC. The Castellono family was known for castrating bettors that don’t pay. Let’s just say, all gave some that night but some gave all.

My goodness, I’m dying. :lol:

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Maybe someone on here can explain how the hell the U of M or MSU is going to cover the costs associated with moving up? Increase student fees like JMU requires? How do you fund the other athletic programs? Want and able to, are two very separate categories here. Asking kids to pay more In this economy seems like a stretch. Yes, a marginal increase can be absorbed. Moving up means more than a marginal increase. Enrollment is already an issue and adding fees seems counterintuitive. Let’s not forget the BOR. are they going to embrace going to the next level? I also don’t think TV revenue is going to be the panacea some think. I personally would like to see both teams move up. The NCAA made a giant mess of things. I just don’t know where the money for moving up comes from.

Maybe someone here can outline the costs associated with moving up. I keep reading that we can’t afford it, but haven’t seen any actual numbers. With so many people asserting how expensive it is, I’m sure someone has the numbers.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Maybe someone on here can explain how the hell the U of M or MSU is going to cover the costs associated with moving up? Increase student fees like JMU requires? How do you fund the other athletic programs? Want and able to, are two very separate categories here. Asking kids to pay more In this economy seems like a stretch. Yes, a marginal increase can be absorbed. Moving up means more than a marginal increase. Enrollment is already an issue and adding fees seems counterintuitive. Let’s not forget the BOR. are they going to embrace going to the next level? I also don’t think TV revenue is going to be the panacea some think. I personally would like to see both teams move up. The NCAA made a giant mess of things. I just don’t know where the money for moving up comes from.

Maybe someone here can outline the costs associated with moving up. I keep reading that we can’t afford it, but haven’t seen any actual numbers. With so many people asserting how expensive it is, I’m sure someone has the numbers.

Magically, other schools move up and figure out how to afford it and they never come back down….except for Idaho. Literally ONE case, and yet all the chicken littles think THAT’S how we’ll end up.

 

[fanofzoo]

Maybe someone on here can explain how the hell the U of M or MSU is going to cover the costs associated with moving up? Increase student fees like JMU requires? How do you fund the other athletic programs? Want and able to, are two very separate categories here. Asking kids to pay more In this economy seems like a stretch. Yes, a marginal increase can be absorbed. Moving up means more than a marginal increase. Enrollment is already an issue and adding fees seems counterintuitive. Let’s not forget the BOR. are they going to embrace going to the next level? I also don’t think TV revenue is going to be the panacea some think. I personally would like to see both teams move up. The NCAA made a giant mess of things. I just don’t know where the money for moving up comes from.

Maybe someone here can outline the costs associated with moving up. I keep reading that we can’t afford it, but haven’t seen any actual numbers. With so many people asserting how expensive it is, I’m sure someone has the numbers.

Mark Ferguson
, Former legal counsel to division I entity
Answered 5 years ago · Author has 2.5K answers and 4.5M answer views

For a school to be FCS it must be Division I in other sports so that means sponsoring a minimum of 14 sports and award roughly half the total scholarships allowed (i.e. If you award all the allowed scholarships in men's basketball and none in baseball that meets) or a specific minimum value in scholarships. You do not have to award any scholarships in football but cannot offer more than 63. The 63 scholarships can be split among players.

FBS schools must sponsor 16 sports and award 200 or more scholarships across those sports. They must award 90% of the 85 scholarships in football and cannot split scholarships.

A FCS must play 7 of 11 games vs other FCS or FBS schools.

A FBS must play 8 of 12 games vs FBS AND must play five home games, four of those vs FBS the 5th game can be FBS or an FCS that awards at least 90% of the FCS scholarship limit.

FBS schools can hire one more assistant coach than FCS schools. FBS schools are also required to sell enough tickets at a minimum price once every two years to equal 15,000 attendance.


You have to do the math.

 

[Copper Griz]

Maybe someone here can outline the costs associated with moving up. I keep reading that we can’t afford it, but haven’t seen any actual numbers. With so many people asserting how expensive it is, I’m sure someone has the numbers.

Magically, other schools move up and figure out how to afford it and they never come back down….except for Idaho. Literally ONE case, and yet all the chicken littles think THAT’S how we’ll end up.

How many move ups out of a state with roughly 1 million people? Idaho? Close and they had two teams move up. The one in Boise made sense based on their metro area. The other Idaho team you referenced is likely a better comparison. Not chicken little. Just reasonable about the process and this is a tough issue. Fans want to blindly push forward expecting a successful landing. Hopefully it does. Education should be the primary function of the University and right now things aren’t going so great. If the football team, moving up and winning help increase enrollment and propel the U of M forward, then I am all for it. Just not sold that is the case right now.

 

[Cowboys84]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.inforum.com/sports/bison-media-zone/mens-sports/mcfeely-blog-missouri-valley-football-conference-appears-ready-to-add-murray-state&ved=2ahUKEwiRuKevqLT1AhXcDzQIHTyQC2cQFnoECA0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2OMcbK7W6lmVdy1EFGQdBP

Murray state applied for admission first and than they got the invite ... Guess it's possible.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Maybe someone here can outline the costs associated with moving up. I keep reading that we can’t afford it, but haven’t seen any actual numbers. With so many people asserting how expensive it is, I’m sure someone has the numbers.

Mark Ferguson
, Former legal counsel to division I entity
Answered 5 years ago · Author has 2.5K answers and 4.5M answer views

For a school to be FCS it must be Division I in other sports so that means sponsoring a minimum of 14 sports and award roughly half the total scholarships allowed (i.e. If you award all the allowed scholarships in men's basketball and none in baseball that meets) or a specific minimum value in scholarships. You do not have to award any scholarships in football but cannot offer more than 63. The 63 scholarships can be split among players.

FBS schools must sponsor 16 sports and award 200 or more scholarships across those sports. They must award 90% of the 85 scholarships in football and cannot split scholarships.

A FCS must play 7 of 11 games vs other FCS or FBS schools.

A FBS must play 8 of 12 games vs FBS AND must play five home games, four of those vs FBS the 5th game can be FBS or an FCS that awards at least 90% of the FCS scholarship limit.

FBS schools can hire one more assistant coach than FCS schools. FBS schools are also required to sell enough tickets at a minimum price once every two years to equal 15,000 attendance.


You have to do the math.

It simply can’t be done.

 

[IdaGriz01]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.inforum.com/sports/bison-media-zone/mens-sports/mcfeely-blog-missouri-valley-football-conference-appears-ready-to-add-murray-state&ved=2ahUKEwiRuKevqLT1AhXcDzQIHTyQC2cQFnoECA0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2OMcbK7W6lmVdy1EFGQdBP

Murray state applied for admission first and than they got the invite ... Guess it's possible.

This, of course, is a sideways move and may or may not be relevant to a “move up” discussion.

This would leave the Ohio Valley skating on thin ice, with only six teams playing football. It seems to me we’ve heard rumors of other teams quitting the OVC (SEMO?), which would put them below the minimum. I’ve read that they plan to add at least one, but apparently that’s not a done deal.

 

[kemajic]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.inforum.com/sports/bison-media-zone/mens-sports/mcfeely-blog-missouri-valley-football-conference-appears-ready-to-add-murray-state&ved=2ahUKEwiRuKevqLT1AhXcDzQIHTyQC2cQFnoECA0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2OMcbK7W6lmVdy1EFGQdBP

Murray state applied for admission first and than they got the invite ... Guess it's possible.

All sports but football. "On Friday, the school announced it was leaving the Ohio Valley Conference for the Missouri Valley Conference in all sports besides football. The Missouri Valley and the Missouri Valley Football conferences are separate entities."