Jace Lewis throws all the shade

[mthoopsfan]

I don't agree that he struggled in pass defense. He may not have been a great pass defender, and didn't have great speed, but his coverage was fine. Most people criticizing his coverage on egriz, don't have a clue about secondary play, pass coverage, and the Griz schemes. Because I played in the secondary, watch secondary play, and discuss the subject with a few coaches and players, I think I have a better view than most on here.

You can have great technique, but if you’re not fast enough, 9/10 times it doesn’t matter. He was any easy target, and coaches as much as admitted they targeted him. But, when you have a good pass rush, that limits the damage that can be done.

Was the forward pass even invented when you played ball? I’m joking, of course, but the game has changed a lot since you played. Robby wasn’t good in coverage, and honestly, it’s obvious on tape. He was assignment steady and technically sound, but small and slow. Sometimes you can’t make up for that. Works against bad teams, but every good team we played it showed on tape.

What you said is not true for secondary pass defense, especially at the college level. Technique, being lined up right, knowledge of the defensive scheme, eyes, quickness, reaction time, strong hands/arms, watching of tape, ability to run backwards and turn quickly and efficiently, etc. are far more important than speed. Sure, speed helps, and can cover up for mistakes, but most of the time those other things are far more important than speed.

Safeties that can see the field, know or have a sense of what's coming, and get a jump on the play/ball, make up for lack of speed.

Tim Hauck wasn't fast, yet he was a very good NFL player. Colt Anderson wasn't fast. Even Trumaine Johnson wasn't a burner.

The basic skills and technique for one on one pass coverage, and even zone, are actually fairly similar to what they were decades, i.e. what I just said above. Saying speed is most important 9/10 times is wrong, and really just plain stupid.

Yes, secondary coverages and schemes, and hybrid schemes, have gotten much more complicated and sophisticated.

 

[horribilisfan8184]

Hauck basically played an undersized LB in this scheme. Like most LB’s, when he had to be in coverage, he struggled.

I don't agree that he struggled in pass defense. He may not have been a great pass defender, and didn't have great speed, but his coverage was fine. Most people criticizing his coverage on egriz, don't have a clue about secondary play, pass coverage, and the Griz schemes. Because I played in the secondary, watch secondary play, and discuss the subject with a few coaches and players, I think I have a better view than most on here.

Can anybody do us a favor and go back and review tapes and find every play where Robby was the trailing defender on a touchdown pass. I'd ask you to post them for all to see but I wonder if this site has the bandwidth.

 

[AZGrizFan]

What you said is not true for secondary pass defense, especially at the college level. Technique, being lined up right, knowledge of the defensive scheme, eyes, quickness, reaction time, strong hands/arms, watching of tape, ability to run backwards and turn quickly and efficiently, etc. are far more important than speed. Sure, speed helps, and can cover up for mistakes, but most of the time those other things are far more important than speed.

Safeties that can see the field, know or have a sense of what's coming, and get a jump on the play/ball, make up for lack of speed.

interesting you talk about "eyes" and "seeing the field"....have you seen the photo of Robby getting "Mossed" when he had perfect position because he HAD HIS EYES CLOSED when the receiver made the catch over his back?

 

[uofmman1122]

I don't agree that he struggled in pass defense. He may not have been a great pass defender, and didn't have great speed, but his coverage was fine. Most people criticizing his coverage on egriz, don't have a clue about secondary play, pass coverage, and the Griz schemes. Because I played in the secondary, watch secondary play, and discuss the subject with a few coaches and players, I think I have a better view than most on here.

Can anybody do us a favor and go back and review tapes and find every play where Robby was the trailing defender on a touchdown pass. I'd ask you to post them for all to see but I wonder if this site has the bandwidth.

He was the trailing defender on the Idaho play where Fouch messed up and let his guy get behind him for a TD.

He was the trailing defender on the Weber TD pass where Justin Ford bit on the fake screen and let his guy go.

Being the trailing defender on a play doesn't mean anything other than you're the closest guy to the end of the play, not that you're the cause of a big play.

By the way, our pass defense gave up 10 passing TDs on the entire year, which is lowest amount we've given up since 2010, when we had that many in 11 games vs. 13 this year. If you want to knock the D for run TDs, that's fair, but they were stellar all year against the pass.

 

[41>37]

Can anybody do us a favor and go back and review tapes and find every play where Robby was the trailing defender on a touchdown pass. I'd ask you to post them for all to see but I wonder if this site has the bandwidth.

He was the trailing defender on the Idaho play where Fouch messed up and let his guy get behind him for a TD.

He was the trailing defender on the Weber TD pass where Justin Ford bit on the fake screen and let his guy go.

Being the trailing defender on a play doesn't mean anything other than you're the closest guy to the end of the play, not that you're the cause of a big play.

By the way, our pass defense gave up 10 passing TDs on the entire year, which is lowest amount we've given up since 2010, when we had that many in 11 games vs. 13 this year. If you want to knock the D for run TDs, that's fair, but they were stellar all year against the pass.

You don’t need to pass when you get 10 yards a pop running outside zone. Robby was not good in coverage but he also was not good against the run, I bet he missed double digit tackles against the cats.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Can anybody do us a favor and go back and review tapes and find every play where Robby was the trailing defender on a touchdown pass. I'd ask you to post them for all to see but I wonder if this site has the bandwidth.

He was the trailing defender on the Idaho play where Fouch messed up and let his guy get behind him for a TD.

He was the trailing defender on the Weber TD pass where Justin Ford bit on the fake screen and let his guy go.

Being the trailing defender on a play doesn't mean anything other than you're the closest guy to the end of the play, not that you're the cause of a big play.

By the way, our pass defense gave up 10 passing TDs on the entire year, which is lowest amount we've given up since 2010, when we had that many in 11 games vs. 13 this year. If you want to knock the D for run TDs, that's fair, but they were stellar all year against the pass.

You are absolutely right on all counts. I specifically recall the 2 plays you mentioned, and, as you said, those weren't Hauck's men. And those plays were covered at qb club, so I also know what Bobby said. I used to hate people who thought that the closest defender had gotten beat, when I played, (even my frat brothers) and it still pisses me off. Sometimes being the closest or trailing defender means that you almost were able to cover up for someone else's mistake, because you reacted so quickly. Nice post.

 

[Htowngriz]

He was the trailing defender on the Idaho play where Fouch messed up and let his guy get behind him for a TD.

He was the trailing defender on the Weber TD pass where Justin Ford bit on the fake screen and let his guy go.

Being the trailing defender on a play doesn't mean anything other than you're the closest guy to the end of the play, not that you're the cause of a big play.

By the way, our pass defense gave up 10 passing TDs on the entire year, which is lowest amount we've given up since 2010, when we had that many in 11 games vs. 13 this year. If you want to knock the D for run TDs, that's fair, but they were stellar all year against the pass.

You don’t need to pass when you get 10 yards a pop running outside zone. Robby was not good in coverage but he also was not good against the run, I bet he missed double digit tackles against the cats.

I would be most of our defense missed double digit, or close to it, tackles against the cats.

 

[mthoopsfan]

You don’t need to pass when you get 10 yards a pop running outside zone. Robby was not good in coverage but he also was not good against the run, I bet he missed double digit tackles against the cats.

I would be most of our defense missed double digit, or close to it, tackles against the cats.

If you are saying that UM missed double digit tackles against the Cats, I agree. The Cats' O and scheme caused many of those missed tackles.

 

[PTGrizzly]

You can have great technique, but if you’re not fast enough, 9/10 times it doesn’t matter. He was any easy target, and coaches as much as admitted they targeted him. But, when you have a good pass rush, that limits the damage that can be done.

Was the forward pass even invented when you played ball? I’m joking, of course, but the game has changed a lot since you played. Robby wasn’t good in coverage, and honestly, it’s obvious on tape. He was assignment steady and technically sound, but small and slow. Sometimes you can’t make up for that. Works against bad teams, but every good team we played it showed on tape.

What you said is not true for secondary pass defense, especially at the college level. Technique, being lined up right, knowledge of the defensive scheme, eyes, quickness, reaction time, strong hands/arms, watching of tape, ability to run backwards and turn quickly and efficiently, etc. are far more important than speed. Sure, speed helps, and can cover up for mistakes, but most of the time those other things are far more important than speed.

Safeties that can see the field, know or have a sense of what's coming, and get a jump on the play/ball, make up for lack of speed.

Tim Hauck wasn't fast, yet he was a very good NFL player. Colt Anderson wasn't fast. Even Trumaine Johnson wasn't a burner.

The basic skills and technique for one on one pass coverage, and even zone, are actually fairly similar to what they were decades, i.e. what I just said above. Saying speed is most important 9/10 times is wrong, and really just plain stupid.

Yes, secondary coverages and schemes, and hybrid schemes, have gotten much more complicated and sophisticated.

Reading comprehension gramps. I never said speed was most important. You need speed and technique in combination.

I said, if you aren’t fast enough, having great technique won’t cover for that 9/10 times. Now, I did not put a numerical indicator on speed. I simply said, “not fast enough”. I don’t know how fast Robby is, but I know he gets burnt on the field a lot, indicating that if his technique is good, his speed is not good enough.

Regarding Tru, he ran a 4.6 40, but he made up for it with his size. He was a press corner with long arms. You will notice that once his athleticism went, he plummeted in the league. Again, technique is 100% necessary, but if you aren’t athletic enough, technique is not enough on its own.

Colt ran a 4.53 40, and a 1.53 10 yard split, and a sub 7 3-cone, indicating excellent explosion and COD. He had much better speed than Robby, and it was noticeable on the field.

Tim played decades ago, and the game is different than it was then. I don’t find player comparisons from 40 years ago work very well. Although the game is cyclical in terms of running and passing, the players are bigger, stronger, and faster. Athleticism relative to your peers would be a more worthy argument.

 

[PTGrizzly]

I would be most of our defense missed double digit, or close to it, tackles against the cats.

If you are saying that UM missed double digit tackles against the Cats, I agree. The Cats' O and scheme caused many of those missed tackles.

A difference in talent level caused it.

 

[uofmman1122]

He was the trailing defender on the Idaho play where Fouch messed up and let his guy get behind him for a TD.

He was the trailing defender on the Weber TD pass where Justin Ford bit on the fake screen and let his guy go.

Being the trailing defender on a play doesn't mean anything other than you're the closest guy to the end of the play, not that you're the cause of a big play.

By the way, our pass defense gave up 10 passing TDs on the entire year, which is lowest amount we've given up since 2010, when we had that many in 11 games vs. 13 this year. If you want to knock the D for run TDs, that's fair, but they were stellar all year against the pass.

You don’t need to pass when you get 10 yards a pop running outside zone. Robby was not good in coverage but he also was not good against the run, I bet he missed double digit tackles against the cats.

We had the 3rd highest number of passing attempts on our defense this year in the conference, and by far the lowest TDs allowed per attempt.

Maybe figure out how to be good at trolling if you don't want to look like an idiot. :lol:

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Who do you guys think will have the best year for the Griz in 2023?
R. Hauck, J. Lewis, or D. Olsen?

 

[SoldierGriz]

Can anybody do us a favor and go back and review tapes and find every play where Robby was the trailing defender on a touchdown pass. I'd ask you to post them for all to see but I wonder if this site has the bandwidth.

He was the trailing defender on the Idaho play where Fouch messed up and let his guy get behind him for a TD.

He was the trailing defender on the Weber TD pass where Justin Ford bit on the fake screen and let his guy go.

Being the trailing defender on a play doesn't mean anything other than you're the closest guy to the end of the play, not that you're the cause of a big play.

By the way, our pass defense gave up 10 passing TDs on the entire year, which is lowest amount we've given up since 2010, when we had that many in 11 games vs. 13 this year. If you want to knock the D for run TDs, that's fair, but they were stellar all year against the pass.

Griz were 5th in the nation in pass defense efficiency.

Weber, widely recognized as the premier secondary in the BSC, was 4.

Griz secondary was NOT the issue.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Egriz has been a long list of (false) narratives.

It's Hauck's fault. It's Rosey's fault. It's Germer's fault. Robbie only plays because of his dad. Robbie can't cover anyone. The safeties can can't cover. It used to be that the corners couldn't cover either, but that went away. It's the o-line's fault. Germer/UM can't recruit o-line. UM has no young o-lineman. The offensive scheme sucks. The play-calling sucks. The play-calling is too conservative (except when it's too aggressive). Put in Britt. Get the ball to Bergen and Flowers. Where are the screen passes (I agree with that one; I would add, where are the flare passes). Need to throw to the TE more. The problem is the 3-3-5. Everyone else is faster than we are. We can't run the ball. The QB doesn't throw down the field enough. The QB has happy feet (not this year on that one). The QB stares down his receiver. Bobby plays favorites. Bobby wants the 37 jersey to go to his daughters. Bobby isn't nice enough in press conferences (especially when dumb questions are ask). Haslam needs to sit down Bobby and give him a talking to, and tell him what to do and how to run the program. Hauck sucks at coaching ST. A new one today: 9/10 of secondary coverage is speed. Not enough posters have quotes from hoops in their avatars. Bobby never played the game. The conference isn't as good as it was in the old days. FCS is falling apart; everyone moved up. UM needs to move up. Let's do a pole on more things. The Big Sky conference sucks. FCS sucks. Let's do more night games. Too many in the athletic dept. and too many fans are happy with status quo, and are afraid of change.

What else? There must be a dozen more.

In the old days when I paid more attention, I could probably have written, during pre-season, most of the season posts that the top 20 complainers would write. They write the same things over and over.

 

[RoseyMustGo]

So now you're turning on Olsen too? Should we poll all of the player's parents to get their opinion, or just the ones you know? Do you think Jesse's parents would appreciate your comment about them on this forum? Jesse and Olsen were good buddies, so there is that!

I haven't turned on any player, and never have. I just asked a question. You are the one who turns on people and criticizes them. You've turned on the team. Look at your name. You are a loser.

You insinuated that Jesse's parents would back your agenda about Olsen. So, I'll just ask them, as you suggested. I should be seeing them soon, as I run around with some Stevi folks. Should I mention your name?

 

[Diesel]

Egriz has been a long list of (false) narratives.

It's Hauck's fault. It's Rosey's fault. It's Germer's fault. Robbie only plays because of his dad. Robbie can't cover anyone. The safeties can can't cover. It used to be that the corners couldn't cover either, but that went away. It's the o-line's fault. Germer/UM can't recruit o-line. UM has no young o-lineman. The offensive scheme sucks. The play-calling sucks. The play-calling is too conservative (except when it's too aggressive). Put in Britt. Get the ball to Bergen and Flowers. Where are the screen passes (I agree with that one; I would add, where are the flare passes). Need to throw to the TE more. The problem is the 3-3-5. Everyone else is faster than we are. We can't run the ball. The QB doesn't throw down the field enough. The QB has happy feet (not this year on that one). The QB stares down his receiver. Bobby plays favorites. Bobby wants the 37 jersey to go to his daughters. Bobby isn't nice enough in press conferences (especially when dumb questions are ask). Haslam needs to sit down Bobby and give him a talking to, and tell him what to do and how to run the program. Hauck sucks at coaching ST. A new one today: 9/10 of secondary coverage is speed. Not enough posters have quotes from hoops in their avatars. Bobby never played the game. The conference isn't as good as it was in the old days. FCS is falling apart; everyone moved up. UM needs to move up. Let's do a pole on more things. The Big Sky conference sucks. FCS sucks. Let's do more night games. Too many in the athletic dept. and too many fans are happy with status quo, and are afraid of change.

What else? There must be a dozen more.

In the old days when I paid more attention, I could probably have written, during pre-season, most of the season posts that the top 20 complainers would write. They write the same things over and over.

Bobcats suck

 

[AZGrizFan]

Who do you guys think will have the best year for the Griz in 2023?
R. Hauck, J. Lewis, or D. Olsen?

I'm thinking Hicks-Onu, personally.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Egriz has been a long list of (false) narratives.

It's Hauck's fault. It's Rosey's fault. It's Germer's fault. Robbie only plays because of his dad. Robbie can't cover anyone. The safeties can can't cover. It used to be that the corners couldn't cover either, but that went away. It's the o-line's fault. Germer/UM can't recruit o-line. UM has no young o-lineman. The offensive scheme sucks. The play-calling sucks. The play-calling is too conservative (except when it's too aggressive). Put in Britt. Get the ball to Bergen and Flowers. Where are the screen passes (I agree with that one; I would add, where are the flare passes). Need to throw to the TE more. The problem is the 3-3-5. Everyone else is faster than we are. We can't run the ball. The QB doesn't throw down the field enough. The QB has happy feet (not this year on that one). The QB stares down his receiver. Bobby plays favorites. Bobby wants the 37 jersey to go to his daughters. Bobby isn't nice enough in press conferences (especially when dumb questions are ask). Haslam needs to sit down Bobby and give him a talking to, and tell him what to do and how to run the program. Hauck sucks at coaching ST. A new one today: 9/10 of secondary coverage is speed. Not enough posters have quotes from hoops in their avatars. Bobby never played the game. The conference isn't as good as it was in the old days. FCS is falling apart; everyone moved up. UM needs to move up. Let's do a pole on more things. The Big Sky conference sucks. FCS sucks. Let's do more night games. Too many in the athletic dept. and too many fans are happy with status quo, and are afraid of change.

I don't know PR, but that is a phenomenal list of things this team/coaching staff/administration should immediately begin working on. 90% of those are verifiably true.

 

[uofmman1122]

Who do you guys think will have the best year for the Griz in 2023?
R. Hauck, J. Lewis, or D. Olsen?

I'm thinking Hicks-Onu, personally.

I honestly think losing him was incredibly underrated with how he played off the edge in the run game. He was almost never out of position on the edges, and fought through WR blocks better than almost anyone I've seen.

 

[Diesel]

I'm thinking Hicks-Onu, personally.

I honestly think losing him was incredibly underrated with how he played off the edge in the run game. He was almost never out of position on the edges, and fought through WR blocks better than almost anyone I've seen.

His hair was on fire. The ability to get helmet on was done with speed, hand strength, and excellent technique. Thus he was a natural DB fit…generational.