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Trophy Kids
- Thread starter montanatarheel
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montanatarheel
Well-known member
UMGriz75 said:
Bradshaw is essentially a senior, Martin was a true sophomore who had half the time to develop. They both have/had better, more talented players ahead of them.
Does anybody without the last name Bradshaw actually think Riley's minutes have gone from 15.4 last year to 6.9 this year (same as his freshman year) because DeCuire doesn't like him? That he would put a personal spite over what is best for the team and possible wins? Isn't it more likely that there are a players more deserving and that maybe, just maybe Riley hasn't developed individually? I don't want to bag on the kid, he seems like a good kid, but he is invisible on the court.
37% being considerably better is an indictment in itself.
EverettGriz said:
In 2012, all teams didn't go to the conference tourney. UM played only 1 game before the championship game. It will take more games to win this year. At least 3 days in a row. 4 in 5 days if not a top 4 seed. Do some of you not even think before you post?
PlayerRep said:
I think the rotation has been fine.
Potomac Griz
Well-known member
With Dunn getting more and more minutes I think they'll be good fine. 3 games in 3 days isn't all that uncommon. It happens a lot in conference tournaments and in early-season tournaments. Wright especially has been asked to play a ton of minutes every game in conference and shows no sign of getting tired out there. Plus with all the breaks and timeouts (as MouseGriz pointed out) it gives all of the players a quick rest.
Look back to the 2007-2008 season when the Griz played in a tournament early in the season. 3 games in 3 days (very common for early season tournaments). The Griz mostly only used an 8 man rotation with a 9th player getting very limited minutes. They put up a good fight against #9 ranked Washington State, beat Air Force (who was 7-1 at the time) and then beat Mississippi Valley State.
And besides, it's not like the other Big Sky teams won't be dealing with the same thing
For anyone that thinks the Griz players will get too tired out there with 3 games in 3 days, what changes do you suggest be made to the rotation?
Look back to the 2007-2008 season when the Griz played in a tournament early in the season. 3 games in 3 days (very common for early season tournaments). The Griz mostly only used an 8 man rotation with a 9th player getting very limited minutes. They put up a good fight against #9 ranked Washington State, beat Air Force (who was 7-1 at the time) and then beat Mississippi Valley State.
And besides, it's not like the other Big Sky teams won't be dealing with the same thing
For anyone that thinks the Griz players will get too tired out there with 3 games in 3 days, what changes do you suggest be made to the rotation?
Potomac Griz said:With Dunn getting more and more minutes I think they'll be good fine. 3 games in 3 days isn't all that uncommon. It happens a lot in conference tournaments and in early-season tournaments. Wright especially has been asked to play a ton of minutes every game in conference and shows no sign of getting tired out there. Plus with all the breaks and timeouts (as MouseGriz pointed out) it gives all of the players a quick rest.
Look back to the 2007-2008 season when the Griz played in a tournament early in the season. 3 games in 3 days (very common for early season tournaments). The Griz mostly only used an 8 man rotation with a 9th player getting very limited minutes. They put up a good fight against #9 ranked Washington State, beat Air Force (who was 7-1 at the time) and then beat Mississippi Valley State.
And besides, it's not like the other Big Sky teams won't be dealing with the same thing
For anyone that thinks the Griz players will get too tired out there with 3 games in 3 days, what changes do you suggest be made to the rotation?
Play starters less. Play bench more. Having Dunn healthy will be a big help if this continues, as Wright and Oguine are playing too much at times. In particular, Wright. Is 3d in conference play in minutes at 36.5. Play Moorehead and DeJong a bit more, or more consistently more. DeJong in particular needs to get more playing time, experience and confidence, generally, so he is ready to go. Play Boenning more, assuming he's back on the bench now. He needs to be ready to go, if the big men get into foul trouble. I don't agree that it's easy to play 3 games in a row, especially if the games are hard or go into OT. Also, we need to be prepared for foul trouble and injury.
Gaining experience for bench players is what the noncom schedule is for. TDC needs to play his best 8 guys now, six of them the vast majority of the time. Few teams, even top 25 teams, go more than 7 or 8 deep this time of year.
EverettGriz said:
Agreed. We're not going to win the Big Sky Tourney relying on DeJong, Boehning and Bradshaw getting minutes so the best 5 or 6 don't get too tired. Kids don't get that worn out playing three 40 minute games in three nights with all the stoppages and being hopefully in top physical condition.
Every top player on every HS and college basketball team lives for tourney time.....three nights in a row, three games in a row, for a championship they've dreamed of their whole life! 40 minute games aren't marathon races!
Did PR ever play the game?
EverettGriz said:
Nope, just not true. Experience often continues throughout the season. Many teams play more than 7 or 8 players. It depends on the quality of the depth and how close games are. Yes, some teams play relatively few players at this time of the season.
Villanova has 8 players averaging over 20 minutes. No one averages 32.
Maryland has 7 over 15 and 2 just under 10. No one over 32.
Okla has 9 over 8, with several at 33.
Iowa has 10 over 9.8 and none over 30.
Xavier has 9 over 9.7 and none over 30.3 and only 2 over 25.6.
Mousegriz said:
I played 2 sports in college. How about you? Or, tell us about high school career. Did you ever get off the bench? Some players get tired playing one game for 40 minutes. Most players wear down playing 3 games in 3 successive days, usually less than say 55 hours. Injuries also happen. Do does foul trouble. No one is suggesting "relying" on DeJong, B and B. However, good minutes from some of them would be helpful. Hopefully, Dunn will continue to get bigger minutes. That is a big help.
PlayerRep said:
I just say watch some meaningful 3 or 4 day bball tourneys, HS or college level, and tell me how many minutes the top 3 or 4 players on every team log in almost every game. One of your posts says, "Play starters less, player bench more." That suggests "relying" on the bench more to me.
......Second team Montana AA all state in HS and only a "Cub" (non-schollie frosh Griz) player.....once popped for 29 vs,. the Cats frosh in front of packed Adams Center. More than 20 of those in the 2nd half when I was super worn out!
HelenaHandBasket
Well-known member
PlayerRep said:
So you are comparing the Montana bench with Villanova, Maryland, Oklahoma, Iowa, and Xavier?
Potomac Griz
Well-known member
Take a look at the box scores for the 3 games in a row the Griz played last year in the tournament and the 3 games in a row EWU played in the tournament. Teams (especially in tournaments unless they get lucky and blow the other team out) generally go with a 7 or 8 man rotation and don't have fatigue problems.
It's not an issue.
Griz 1st game (3 Point Win vs Weber in OT):
Griz played 7 players 10 or more minutes (Kemp had 8 minutes, Lopez 3)
Weber played 7 players 10 or more minutes (Johnson-Coston had 6 minutes)
Griz 2nd game (2 Point Win vs NAU):
Griz played 8 players 10 or more minutes (Lopez had 7 mins)
NAU played 7 players 10 or more minutes (Reynolds had 5 mins)
Griz 3rd game (4 Point Loss vs EWU):
Griz played 7 players 10 or more minutes (Kemp had 5, Lopez 2, Nwosu 1)
EWU Played 7 players 10 or more minutes (Moon had 5)
EWU's 1st game (8 Point Win vs Idaho):
EWU Played 7 players 10 or more minutes (Moon played 2, Reid played 1)
Idaho played 8 players 10 or more minutes (Mpawe played 5, Egbert 5, George 3, Sherwood 1)
EWU's 2nd game (8 Point Win vs Sac):
EWU Played 7 players 10 or more minutes (Moon played less than a minute, Hill played 2)
Sac played 7 players 10 or more minutse (Tiffin 9, Graves 5, Strings 3, STuteville 1, Jackson less than 1)
EWU's 3rd game (4 Point Win vs Griz):
EWU Played 7 players 10 or more minutes (Moon had 5)
Griz played 7 players 10 or more minutes (Kemp had 5, Lopez 2, Nwosu 1)
It's not an issue.
Griz 1st game (3 Point Win vs Weber in OT):
Griz played 7 players 10 or more minutes (Kemp had 8 minutes, Lopez 3)
Weber played 7 players 10 or more minutes (Johnson-Coston had 6 minutes)
Griz 2nd game (2 Point Win vs NAU):
Griz played 8 players 10 or more minutes (Lopez had 7 mins)
NAU played 7 players 10 or more minutes (Reynolds had 5 mins)
Griz 3rd game (4 Point Loss vs EWU):
Griz played 7 players 10 or more minutes (Kemp had 5, Lopez 2, Nwosu 1)
EWU Played 7 players 10 or more minutes (Moon had 5)
EWU's 1st game (8 Point Win vs Idaho):
EWU Played 7 players 10 or more minutes (Moon played 2, Reid played 1)
Idaho played 8 players 10 or more minutes (Mpawe played 5, Egbert 5, George 3, Sherwood 1)
EWU's 2nd game (8 Point Win vs Sac):
EWU Played 7 players 10 or more minutes (Moon played less than a minute, Hill played 2)
Sac played 7 players 10 or more minutse (Tiffin 9, Graves 5, Strings 3, STuteville 1, Jackson less than 1)
EWU's 3rd game (4 Point Win vs Griz):
EWU Played 7 players 10 or more minutes (Moon had 5)
Griz played 7 players 10 or more minutes (Kemp had 5, Lopez 2, Nwosu 1)
Potomac Griz
Well-known member
PlayerRep said:
Lets look at these teams you've listed and what they've done as the season has progressed (getting into conference).
PlayerRep said:
First off, Villanova has 7 players averaging over 20 minutes, not 8. They also have 2 players averaging over 31 minutes a game. Not 32, but 31 is pretty close. And that's even with them blowing out so many teams (getting a lot of inexperienced players good minutes) early in the season non-conference. The Griz and most Big Sky teams don't have that luxury where they destroy the majority of teams they face in non-conference. Look at what Villanova does in close games and you'll see they play 7 or 8 players 10+ minutes and that's it. Just like the Griz usually.
In fact now that they are in conference they have 2 players averaging above 32 mins a game, since those games are closer. They (like most teams including the Griz) have narrowed their rotation down to 8 players getting good minutes with 3 getting 30+ a game.
PlayerRep said:
Same thing...they blow out a ton of teams in non-conference, get a bunch of guys extra minutes and then once conference starts they narrow it down to a 7 or 8 man rotation. In fact they now have 3 players with 32+ minutes per game in conference since it's tougher competition and closer games. Oh and also the Griz have 7 players with over 15 minutes a game with Dunn just under 15 to make it almost 8 (He'll certainly be above 15 soon as he continues to shake the rust off). So not that different from the Griz really.
PlayerRep said:
They only have 5 players averaging 15 or more. The Griz have 7 and an 8th coming along soon with Dunn. You should probably let Oklahoma know they need to play their bench more to be successful
They're another team that has narrowed it down to a 7 or 8 man rotation once conference started too. Now they have 7 players with 10 or more minutes and the rest are 7ish or less. They have 2 players above 35 mins a game in conference including one at 37.8 minutes. PlayerRep said:
Very misleading there. One of them has only played in 6 games (one who averages above 9). And would ya look at that? Once they got into conference and are playing much tougher opponents and closer games more consistently they've narrowed it down to a 7 man (10+ minutes) rotation! That includes 2 over 30 minutes (including one over 32), and 2 just barely under 30 minutes a game.
PlayerRep said:
Xavier is about the only one on your list that seems to be doing what you think the Griz should be doing. They have 9 people with 10+ minutes in conference play as well (9.7 or 10 mins, close enough).
So...to sum up....
Teams use non-conference games for getting players experience, seeing what they have, and top 20 teams get to do a LOT more of that since they are busy beating the piss out of other teams most of the time. Mid-majors like the Griz don't have the luxury of playing nearly every non-conference game at home and blowing out the opponents & playing 9 or 10 guys tons of minutes most games.
Mousegriz said:
I'm not talking about the tournament games. I'm talking about now, and I was answering Potomac's question to me. Do you want to be prepared for the tournament, including injuries and foul trouble, or not? Seems pretty simple to me. My father-in-law was a college basketball coach (head), and this is what he told me.
Potomac Griz said:PlayerRep said:
Lets look at these teams you've listed and what they've done as the season has progressed (getting into conference).
PlayerRep said:
First off, Villanova has 7 players averaging over 20 minutes, not 8. They also have 2 players averaging over 31 minutes a game. Not 32, but 31 is pretty close. And that's even with them blowing out so many teams (getting a lot of inexperienced players good minutes) early in the season non-conference. The Griz and most Big Sky teams don't have that luxury where they destroy the majority of teams they face in non-conference. Look at what Villanova does in close games and you'll see they play 7 or 8 players 10+ minutes and that's it. Just like the Griz usually.
In fact now that they are in conference they have 2 players averaging above 32 mins a game, since those games are closer. They (like most teams including the Griz) have narrowed their rotation down to 8 players getting good minutes with 3 getting 30+ a game.
PlayerRep said:
Same thing...they blow out a ton of teams in non-conference, get a bunch of guys extra minutes and then once conference starts they narrow it down to a 7 or 8 man rotation. In fact they now have 3 players with 32+ minutes per game in conference since it's tougher competition and closer games. Oh and also the Griz have 7 players with over 15 minutes a game with Dunn just under 15 to make it almost 8 (He'll certainly be above 15 soon as he continues to shake the rust off). So not that different from the Griz really.
PlayerRep said:
They only have 5 players averaging 15 or more. The Griz have 7 and an 8th coming along soon with Dunn. You should probably let Oklahoma know they need to play their bench more to be successful
PlayerRep said:
Very misleading there. One of them has only played in 6 games (one who averages above 9). And would ya look at that? Once they got into conference and are playing much tougher opponents and closer games more consistently they've narrowed it down to a 7 man (10+ minutes) rotation! That includes 2 over 30 minutes (including one over 32), and 2 just barely under 30 minutes a game.
PlayerRep said:
Xavier is about the only one on your list that seems to be doing what you think the Griz should be doing. They have 9 people with 10+ minutes in conference play as well (9.7 or 10 mins, close enough).
So...to sum up....
Teams use non-conference games for getting players experience, seeing what they have, and top 20 teams get to do a LOT more of that since they are busy beating the piss out of other teams most of the time. Mid-majors like the Griz don't have the luxury of playing nearly every non-conference game at home and blowing out the opponents & playing 9 or 10 guys tons of minutes most games.
Some of your stats are wrong and misleading, and don't support your point. So there.
DAMMIT, people. You've been warned before: Stop providing a wealth of facts that prove how wrong PR is. We simply cannot afford to let his ego get any smaller.... :?
