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Trophy Kids

EverettGriz said:
I tried to watch this last night and turned it off after about an hour. I just couldn't take it any longer.

Then I texted my Dad and thanked him for being positively supportive of me and my interests growing up.
Did he then tell you that this is exactly the kind of pussy response he expected from an emotional buttercup daughter like you? Did he then remind you of what a complete failure that you have been to your mother before he told you to drop and give him 25?
 
Ursa Major said:
EverettGriz said:
I tried to watch this last night and turned it off after about an hour. I just couldn't take it any longer.

Then I texted my Dad and thanked him for being positively supportive of me and my interests growing up.
Did he then tell you that this is exactly the kind of pussy response he expected from an emotional buttercup daughter like you? Did he then remind you of what a complete failure that you have been to your mother before he told you to drop and give him 25?


Yes. Although he did not use the term "buttercup".

Also, let the record reflect that I was able to complete only 7 of the required pushups. It likely would have been fewer, but my belly protrusion allows me the opportunity of dropping a mere inch or two before contact. I count 'em.
 
EverettGriz said:
Ursa Major said:
EverettGriz said:
I tried to watch this last night and turned it off after about an hour. I just couldn't take it any longer.

Then I texted my Dad and thanked him for being positively supportive of me and my interests growing up.
Did he then tell you that this is exactly the kind of pussy response he expected from an emotional buttercup daughter like you? Did he then remind you of what a complete failure that you have been to your mother before he told you to drop and give him 25?


Yes. Although he did not use the term "buttercup".

Also, let the record reflect that I was able to complete only 7 of the required pushups. It likely would have been fewer, but my belly protrusion allows me the opportunity of dropping a mere inch or two before contact. I count 'em.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :clap:
 
EverettGriz said:
Ursa Major said:
EverettGriz said:
I tried to watch this last night and turned it off after about an hour. I just couldn't take it any longer.

Then I texted my Dad and thanked him for being positively supportive of me and my interests growing up.
Did he then tell you that this is exactly the kind of pussy response he expected from an emotional buttercup daughter like you? Did he then remind you of what a complete failure that you have been to your mother before he told you to drop and give him 25?


Yes. Although he did not use the term "buttercup".

Also, let the record reflect that I was able to complete only 7 of the required pushups. It likely would have been fewer, but my belly protrusion allows me the opportunity of dropping a mere inch or two before contact. I count 'em.

:lol: :clap: :lol:

This thread topic is a good one. And timely. I intend to check out the link when I get time. At Butte High the coaches have a rule: if a parent is upset about something they make an appointment to talk to a coach, or the kid won't play in the next game. They also direct parents to let their kid talk to the coaches first. That helps the kids handle things in a mature manner and let's hothead parents cool off. There are times a parent really should advocate for their kid but there are lines you just don't cross.

Now. Drop and give me four!
 
Riley Bradshaw's father told an acquaintance of mine that Travis only plays "his recruits". Does that qualify Riley as a Trophy Kid?
 
Buttegrizzle said:
At Butte High the coaches have a rule: if a parent is upset about something they make an appointment to talk to a coach, or the kid won't play in the next game. They also direct parents to let their kid talk to the coaches first. That helps the kids handle things in a mature manner and let's hothead parents cool off. There are times a parent really should advocate for their kid but there are lines you just don't cross.
Good policy; well thought out.
 
maroonandsilver said:
Riley Bradshaw's father told an acquaintance of mine that Travis only plays "his recruits". Does that qualify Riley as a Trophy Kid?

While I can see that it's probably quite frustrating for him that Bradshaw's minutes have declined this year, I don't think that's true at all that DeCuire only plays "his recruits". Also being a frustrated parent about something like that doesn't mean that he's one of those overbearing parents when it comes to sports.
 
maroonandsilver said:
Riley Bradshaw's father told an acquaintance of mine that Travis only plays "his recruits". Does that qualify Riley as a Trophy Kid?
I'm sure there were many Corvallis parents who thought Riley's dad didn't play their kids enough so Riley could be the star and earn a scholarship.
Potomac Griz said:
BDizzle said:
I believe ESPN also had a documentary about the golf girl as well as a bunch of other junior golfers. It was crazy how good the little girl was and how much fun she had when her dad wasn't around.

Yeah from what it sounded like she actually really enjoyed golf, the competition and all that. In the documentary they mentioned after they were done filming she played in a tournament that allowed no-parents and won.

She'd have a lot more fun and likely be able to achieve a lot more if that asshole wasn't shadowing her everywhere on the golf course. If he doesn't get his act together he may burn her out on it completely and make her hate the game of golf. That'd be sad, but it happens a lot I bet.
 
Breunig, Gfeller, Dunn, Lopez and Fab are not his recruits and play significant to huge roles. I won't say anything about Rileys dad.
 
grizfnz said:
maroonandsilver said:
Riley Bradshaw's father told an acquaintance of mine that Travis only plays "his recruits". Does that qualify Riley as a Trophy Kid?
I'm sure there were many Corvallis parents who thought Riley's dad didn't play their kids enough so Riley could be the star and earn a scholarship.
Potomac Griz said:
BDizzle said:
I believe ESPN also had a documentary about the golf girl as well as a bunch of other junior golfers. It was crazy how good the little girl was and how much fun she had when her dad wasn't around.

Yeah from what it sounded like she actually really enjoyed golf, the competition and all that. In the documentary they mentioned after they were done filming she played in a tournament that allowed no-parents and won.

She'd have a lot more fun and likely be able to achieve a lot more if that asshole wasn't shadowing her everywhere on the golf course. If he doesn't get his act together he may burn her out on it completely and make her hate the game of golf. That'd be sad, but it happens a lot I bet.
To be fair Riley was good enough to play varsity while he was in junior high (my opinion)
 
Grizzly Oredigger said:
grizfnz said:
maroonandsilver said:
Riley Bradshaw's father told an acquaintance of mine that Travis only plays "his recruits". Does that qualify Riley as a Trophy Kid?
I'm sure there were many Corvallis parents who thought Riley's dad didn't play their kids enough so Riley could be the star and earn a scholarship.
Potomac Griz said:
BDizzle said:
I believe ESPN also had a documentary about the golf girl as well as a bunch of other junior golfers. It was crazy how good the little girl was and how much fun she had when her dad wasn't around.

Yeah from what it sounded like she actually really enjoyed golf, the competition and all that. In the documentary they mentioned after they were done filming she played in a tournament that allowed no-parents and won.

She'd have a lot more fun and likely be able to achieve a lot more if that asshole wasn't shadowing her everywhere on the golf course. If he doesn't get his act together he may burn her out on it completely and make her hate the game of golf. That'd be sad, but it happens a lot I bet.
To be fair Riley was good enough to play varsity while he was in junior high (my opinion)
No argument from me about Riley being the best player at corvallis, his dad needs to realize that his son is a good college player but others are better and more athletic.
 
I hate to say it, but with Pridgett and Rorie coming on board next season, and with a healthy Dunn in the line-up, Riley will not get many minutes.
 
Potomac Griz said:
maroonandsilver said:
Riley Bradshaw's father told an acquaintance of mine that Travis only plays "his recruits". Does that qualify Riley as a Trophy Kid?

While I can see that it's probably quite frustrating for him that Bradshaw's minutes have declined this year, I don't think that's true at all that DeCuire only plays "his recruits". Also being a frustrated parent about something like that doesn't mean that he's one of those overbearing parents when it comes to sports.
No, it just means he's an entitled ass that either can't identify talent or simply can't when his little feelers are involved.
 
grizfnz said:
No argument from me about Riley being the best player at corvallis, his dad needs to realize that his son is a good college player but others are better and more athletic.
Years ago, when I did more coaching science and was writing for various sport academic journals, I noted that in the Olympic sports we worked with that were very good, in the United States, at creating what I called "Experience Bias." That is, everybody, from local tournaments through national level, wanted to emulate the "International Rules" which invariably involved single elimination tournaments, or at best, repechage. They wanted to play by the "big boy" rules, and make it "authentic."

I pointed out that this was ridiculous. The Olympic Games were the culmination of a process, constrained by time and cost. But by following that as a development model, new players, or less experienced players, would regularly lose in the first rounds (50% lose the first round of course), and so not gain the valuable competition experience that actually results in sport success. The "experienced" players got more experience, and the less experienced players got less, substantially less. This invariably produced a very high diversity in skill levels. The problem was, it replaced any significant influence of a "Talent Bias." A talented kid could not get the experience necessary to fully exploit his talent, against more experienced players. He was in effect "handicapped" by the tournament system itself.

After a decade of arguing about it, the light finally went on that for local and regional competitions, we needed to do as much round-robin, double or more elimination as possible, to give "talent" the opportunity to obtain "experience." We had to create a "Talent Bias" to replace the previous "Experience Bias."

Riley, and anyone that sits on the bench much, is a victim of precisely the "Experience Bias" that can overwhelm any "Talent Bias." If he played as many minutes regularly as, say, Martin Breunig, he may well be scoring at that level. But, we'll probably never know because collegiate team sports are founded upon an "Experience Bias" that is very hard to beat with a "Talent Bias" that is never likely to develop. Of course, that's where the Coach comes in, to recognize that disadvantage by what he sees in practice, but even at that, with the close games this year, the risk is high of giving someone like Riley the necessary "experience" to develop whatever latent talent may be there. It's just tough to do in team sports at the collegiate level.

Riley is a talented kid. But, he's caught up in the needs of the game, and that talent may never be permitted full expression as a result. Coach DeCuire obviously works the problem, you can tell, but its just tough to do it effectively in close game after close game. Its rough on talented young guys like Riley.
 
Wait 75, are you F'in with us? Wouldn't this be the exact argument for why Martin might not be successful in the Pac12 as a freshman/sophomore but may be very successful now as a senior if he were in the Pac12 and clearly is currently successful in the Big Sky? Did you put this in this thread purposely to see if we would catch you? You are a slick one.
 
cmtgrizzly said:
Wait 75, are you F'in with us? Wouldn't this be the exact argument for why Martin might not be successful in the Pac12 as a freshman/sophomore but may be very successful now as a senior if he were in the Pac12 and clearly is currently successful in the Big Sky? Did you put this in this thread purposely to see if we would catch you? You are a slick one.
Well, I did say I thought Martin could "probably" play in Pac12 because of his BSC "experience." Not sure how "slick" that was ...
 
So you don't feel that you cut your own throat with regard to the argument you have made that Martin isn't Pac12 material with your post in this thread?
 
UMGriz75 said:
grizfnz said:
No argument from me about Riley being the best player at corvallis, his dad needs to realize that his son is a good college player but others are better and more athletic.
Years ago, when I did more coaching science and was writing for various sport academic journals, I noted that in the Olympic sports we worked with that were very good, in the United States, at creating what I called "Experience Bias." That is, everybody, from local tournaments through national level, wanted to emulate the "International Rules" which invariably involved single elimination tournaments, or at best, repechage. They wanted to play by the "big boy" rules, and make it "authentic."

I pointed out that this was ridiculous. The Olympic Games were the culmination of a process, constrained by time and cost. But by following that as a development model, new players, or less experienced players, would regularly lose in the first rounds (50% lose the first round of course), and so not gain the valuable competition experience that actually results in sport success. The "experienced" players got more experience, and the less experienced players got less, substantially less. This invariably produced a very high diversity in skill levels. The problem was, it replaced any significant influence of a "Talent Bias." A talented kid could not get the experience necessary to fully exploit his talent, against more experienced players. He was in effect "handicapped" by the tournament system itself.

After a decade of arguing about it, the light finally went on that for local and regional competitions, we needed to do as much round-robin, double or more elimination as possible, to give "talent" the opportunity to obtain "experience." We had to create a "Talent Bias" to replace the previous "Experience Bias."

Riley, and anyone that sits on the bench much, is a victim of precisely the "Experience Bias" that can overwhelm any "Talent Bias." If he played as many minutes regularly as, say, Martin Breunig, he may well be scoring at that level. But, we'll probably never know because collegiate team sports are founded upon an "Experience Bias" that is very hard to beat with a "Talent Bias" that is never likely to develop. Of course, that's where the Coach comes in, to recognize that disadvantage by what he sees in practice, but even at that, with the close games this year, the risk is high of giving someone like Riley the necessary "experience" to develop whatever latent talent may be there. It's just tough to do in team sports at the collegiate level.

Riley is a talented kid. But, he's caught up in the needs of the game, and that talent may never be permitted full expression as a result. Coach DeCuire obviously works the problem, you can tell, but its just tough to do it effectively in close game after close game. Its rough on talented young guys like Riley.
I won't argue the premise, but your example is God awful. You chose to compare a slower than average, less than average overall athlete with average ball skills and average at best height(all on a position played basis) to an athletic freak with above average balls skills and touch around the basket(again, per position).

As a scout, job is to project talent in the near term and going forward. To project two athletes of similar abilities in relation to their position and determine where, how and why they differ. Example: Two great baseball players, kid from Cali and a kid from Montana. Is the Cali kid better because he's simply more talented, or is he better because of better weather, better facilities, year round club league opportunities, sees more 85mph fastballs on a regular basis than kid from Montana. Will Montana kid adjust when he sees that?
 
casewinter13 said:
I won't argue the premise, but your example is God awful. You chose to compare a slower than average, less than average overall athlete with average ball skills and average at best height(all on a position played basis) to an athletic freak with above average balls skills and touch around the basket(again, per position).
Well, no. It's how talent develops with experience, when experience is not equal. The "talent" then looks lacking in precisely that metric, because that's how "Experience Bias" shapes the athlete selection process.
 
casewinter13 said:
Example: Two great baseball players, kid from Cali and a kid from Montana. Is the Cali kid better because he's simply more talented, or is he better because of better weather, better facilities, year round club league opportunities, sees more 85mph fastballs on a regular basis than kid from Montana. Will Montana kid adjust when he sees that?
It's a good hypothetical. I don't know how he "adjusts" when the adjustment is necessarily based on "experience," -- an experience that he cannot get because of circumstances independent of his native "Talent." That's the problem with the "Experience Bias."
 

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