Its Time to Clean House.

[PlayerRep]

Digger, I wonder if Potomac would have been supporting posters who started threads saying it was time to clean house when it was becoming clear that the hoops team would probably not be making the ncaa tourney. What Potomac confuses, or won't admit, is that the level of discussion and criticism of coaches/players on the basketball board is usually fairly mild compared to the sometimes extreme (and unfair) criticism on the football board. And, like you said, the number of trolls and others just seeking attention, is much much lower on the hoops board.

 

[BadlandsGrizFan]

I liked the game. Had a great day. Talked to lots of people--all having fun. Didn't like seeing John Nguyen go down.

I would like to see the house cleaned of bad fans like TNT. Spoiled. Don't understand the game. Don't understand or appreciate sport. Bad for the program.

I get sick of your arrogant attitude, being condescending to anyone who has an opinion that you disagree with. You are neither a spokesperson for the team or its players, much to your chagrin. And certainly your constant judgement of our fan base with your labels of who is a good fan and a bad fan is boring and redundant. You are no better than any other Griz fan even though you think you are special.

You don't understand, he played the game, although it being Darth-mouth, a program that could arguably be beaten on any given Friday by many high high schools in Chicago and Texas.

Sorry Jack, for my deraguatory comments about your accomplishments, by why are you such a jerk.

Chicago got some powerhouse high school football now??? I think you're thinking of BASKETBALL...BASKETBALL is not the same as FOOTBALL

 

[EverettGriz]

Absolute worst thread of the year.

 

[statler & waldorf]

A couple of questions for those wanting to change coaches NOW: Where were you after the 2012 season? After the 2013 season? Did you think Delaney and staff were suddenly going to experience an epiphany and become world class coaches this year?

 

[tnt]

This wasn't about coaching, game plan or even the UNC game. It was about the dearth of leadership at multiple levels leading to what is becoming ever more apparent that something is lacking in our football program. A coaching staff phoning in a game is one thing, an athletic department and administration living on past laurels and phoning in the whole program is another.

No body cares if the boosters are happy when the program is no longer the thing happening on a Sat.

 

[statler & waldorf]

Just saying that the place holder coach should have been gone after the 2012 season, but Royce knew what he was doing, keeping him and keeping Griz football down.

 

[dupuyer griz]

A couple of questions for those wanting to change coaches NOW: Where were you after the 2012 season? After the 2013 season? Did you think Delaney and staff were suddenly going to experience and epiphany and become world class coaches this year?

I think they have been present from the moment that the 12' season became losing. This is nothing new. I am happy with what they have done to fix the "problems," but it would be great to move on to the great coaching that we were used to. Spoiled, yes, but I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to win AND have the coaching be stellar. Yes I know we won by 25, but the coaching coming out of the half was lackluster as is common in recent years. It shouldn't be us coming out and not scoring in the second half while giving up points. It should be the other way around. The D should be a steel trap after half and the offense should blow up in the second half. Especially if we are a hard nosed pound the ball offense that wears teams down. As it is, I don't think this staff has what it takes to really make the playoff push. That's ok, but it can't be the norm. What can we do differently? How is it that Eastern got a monster like Baldwin? NDSU has had great coaching for years. What is the difference? We are a top tier FCS school and people should want to coach our program. It shouldn't be hard.

 

[Grizbeer]

I think they have been present from the moment that the 12' season became losing. This is nothing new. I am happy with what they have done to fix the "problems," but it would be great to move on to the great coaching that we were used to. Spoiled, yes, but I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to win AND have the coaching be stellar. Yes I know we won by 25, but the coaching coming out of the half was lackluster as is common in recent years. It shouldn't be us coming out and not scoring in the second half while giving up points. It should be the other way around. The D should be a steel trap after half and the offense should blow up in the second half. Especially if we are a hard nosed pound the ball offense that wears teams down. As it is, I don't think this staff has what it takes to really make the playoff push. That's ok, but it can't be the norm. What can we do differently? How is it that Eastern got a monster like Baldwin? NDSU has had great coaching for years. What is the difference? We are a top tier FCS school and people should want to coach our program. It shouldn't be hard.

Baldwin's first year at EWU they were coming off a QF playoff appearance, and went 6-5 (with 1 win over a D-II, so 5-5 against D-I teams). His second year they went 8-4, returned to the playoffs but lost in the first round. His 3rd year started 3-2 in the first 5 games, with a loss to a MTN West team and a blowout loss to MT State, a 3 point win over D-II Central WA, a 9 point home win over Montana (a non-playoff team that year), and an 11 point road win over Weber State.

At that point in his EWU career he had 1 win over a playoff team, the miracle 2008 win over Weber in the last game of the season that preserved UM's conference championship streak. After the loss to MSU EWU ran the table to win the National Championship. The next year they went 6-5.

Of course Baldwin was only dealing with a 2 scholarship reduction for 2 of those years instead of 4 scholarships, and had Payton award winner Mitchell at QB and Buchanan award winners Peach at DE, and Sherritt at LB during this time, plus 4th round pick Taiwan Jones.

 

[tnt]

Just saying that the place holder coach should have been gone after the 2012 season, but Royce knew what he was doing, keeping him and keeping Griz football down.

In a perfect world maybe, but until the NCAA sanctions were announced in late Jul 2013, there wouldn't be coach of note that would (or should) have considered the job. I would love to see some evidence that RE overruled Haslam and demanded that a 2 year contract be given to MD. Maybe RE should have overruled Haslam and demand that MD be fired for taking his team to the Playoffs. But something is lacking in the moving forward of the football program, and its going backwards. But the assumption on both Engstroms and Haslams part that the program is on autopilot moving the right direction and all they need to do is press flesh and accept checks is going to bite them in the butt.

As both JOD and RP learned there is much more to the job than winning games and making a run into the playoffs. Mick needs to learn he has to produce teams people want to watch and watch in such a way, they only look at the scoreboard with the hope the get to watch longer. (run run pass hope for a big play ain't gonna do it) Haslam needs manage his coaches and to learn that his product needs to be appealing to everyone from the causual fan to Monday morning quarterbacks. RE needs to ensure that Haslam does that. Anyone of those three fail, they fix it quick or...............

 

[get'em_griz]

 

[tgreseth]

As both JOD and RP learned there is much more to the job than winning games and making a run into the playoffs. Mick needs to learn he has to produce teams people want to watch and watch in such a way, they only look at the scoreboard with the hope the get to watch longer. (run run pass hope for a big play ain't gonna do it) Haslam needs manage his coaches and to learn that his product needs to be appealing to everyone from the causual fan to Monday morning quarterbacks. RE needs to ensure that Haslam does that. Anyone of those three fail, they fix it quick or...............

Someone needs to tell the kids on the team that they're at the University of Montana to entertain tnt and his booster friends. Because you've got balls the size of cantaloupes, I'm sure you won't hesitate to schedule some time at the next team meeting and let them know how they're letting you and your friends down. :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[Ursa Major]

ha!

 

[tnt]

Someone needs to tell the kids on the team that they're at the University of Montana to entertain tnt and his booster friends. Because you've got balls the size of cantaloupes, I'm sure you won't hesitate to schedule some time at the next team meeting and let them know how they're letting you and your friends down. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[/quote]

Don't know about the kids near as I can tell there are several right behind them willing to do their job if the ones in front don't. Is someone saying the players aren't holding up their end of the bargain?? It appears the coaches don't hesitate to hold them accountable.

I have often wondered what all those seats at the stadium were for. The fact is Bjorn, exactly what the athletic program is for, that and to promote the University. Should it draw attention to itself in a negative way changes are made. Its that way in every university in the country. Its happen here, its happened recently in Kansas, is about to happen in Michigan. You are not so naive as to believe that athletics some character building exercise for 345 UM students that millions of dollars are spent on are you?

 

[Potomac Griz]

1. You admit to agreeing with an admitted troll, a Bobcat posing as an EWU fan. That's pretty funny. Shows your true colors.

2. Not one poster has said that other posters are not entitled to their opinions, yet you want to fight this "straw man" that doesn't exist.

3. Not one poster has said that other posters should be their heads in the sand and ignore problems, yet you want to fight this straw man that doesn't exist.

4. You apparently believe that it is perfectly okay to criticize, fairly and unfairly, coaches and the team--but it is not right for other posters to disagree with or criticize posters who are being unfairly critical of the coaches/team. Talk about hypocritical.

5. Looks to me that you don't believe it's right for any posters to disagree with your views or opinions or any views or opinions you agree with.

6. The thread title is about it being time "to clean house". Do you even support that premise? It would surprise me if you did, but perhaps you've gone over the deep edge.

Ahh a list! I love lists. Makes it easier to respond to each point.

1. I'm going to ignore the "true colors" bit from you in this first item and just say even a troll can sometimes make a correct statement from time to time. He was basically stating that expressing an opinion that doesn't agree with the koolaid drinkers & is critical of certain aspects of the team doesn't make someone a "bad fan". Do you disagree with that?

2. Did you really just accuse me of a straw man argument by claiming I said something that I did not? Really? That's impressive man :lol: Accuse someone else of a straw man argument by erecting your own to knock down. Wow! I never claimed that anyone else was saying other people were not entitled to their opinion. I said that other people who don't agree with the "koolaid" crowd are often called bad fans for doing so.

3. Again claiming I said something I never said. No where did I claim they said to ignore problems with the coaching. They wouldn't say that since they don't seem to acknowledge there are problems to begin with. Those posters (yourself included) often try to dismiss criticism of the coaching staff as the other person being a "bad fan" or wit the other popular methods like "never played the game", "you aren't a coach", etc.

4. Ahh....strawmen...strawmen EVERYWHERE! Are you building an army here? Where did I state that I had a problem with people disagreeing with me? I don't have a problem with someone disagreeing with my opinion at all. I have a problem with people jumping right into labeling those who disagree with them as "bad fans".

5. Why is this #5? Isn't this the same thing as #4? I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with me at all. See my answer to #4. Seriously...if you are going to make a list try to at least make it a list that doesn't have redundant entries.

6. Cleaning house. The original topic. Lets start from the top.

First off, I don't like Engstrom. I think what he did to Pflu and O'Day was absolute bullshit. Even though I had my disagreements with O'Day and discussed them with him (not on coaching related issues btw) what was done to him wasn't fair at all and he was a good AD in my opinion. Engstrom however should resign and move to another country, preferably as far away from Montana as possible. In fact I wouldn't be opposed to him being sent to Siberia. Actually scratch that....he should move to Nizwa, Oman. It's further from Missoula. I didn't think Antarctica was appropriate so I chose a place that had a decent population for him. I'm not a total heartless bastard

Haslem? Too early to tell. I do like that he hired DeCuire. I think that was the best hire for the Griz BB program. He's bringing a point guard attitude to the team and it's going to be fun to watch I bet. I do wish Haslam & the powers that be had done it in a timely manner so that DeCuire could evaluate the team earlier and we wouldn't be down one scholarship this year though. Still, a good hire I think!

Delaney? I think he's done a decent job when it comes to weathering the storm caused by Engstrom and an over-zealous media. I also think he's a very nice guy and likely a good position coach. However, it would be best if he would step aside as head coach and go back into retirement after this season. He is NOT the future of Griz FB if we want to return to being a NC contender. Do you think he is?

I have a question for you. I've asked this question to a few of the adamant Delaney supporters yet for some reason they don't answer it. If the Griz finish 6-6 or 7-5 and miss the playoffs this year (making it 2 out of 3 without playoffs) will you be in favor of a contract extension or will you want the Griz to find someone else for the HC job?

 

[Potomac Griz]

Guaranteed if we ever did something like Gonzaga, and made a regional final.....especially across 5-6 years, then if we reverted back to "the norm"....the fake fans would be on that board complaining and whining just as much.

I definitely agree. However along with those bandwagon fans who would be overly negative we'd likely have a healthy dose of bandwagon fans who wouldn't want their newly popular social gathering criticized and would be (as IroneagleXP put it) "koolaid" drinkers who wouldn't admit there were any problems ever.

As for the other part of your post, there is criticism of the coaching staff over on the basketball forums & it can get brutal sometimes (especially during heated moments like the middle of a game). The big difference is (besides not as many trolls) it's a rarity to see others jumping right into labeling people as bad fans, telling them to give up their tickets and all that crap over there. To me that shows that the people who are more of the die hard fan types can discuss things even in a heated way without resorting to those tired old lines.

If basketball ever overtakes football in popularity and has the same social gathering type element to it where big-wigs spend more time schmoozing with each other than paying attention to the game (there is some of that already) we'll end up seeing the same crap over there.

 

[EverettGriz]

I sure wish eGriz would do some house cleaning....

 

[Grizbeer]

I have a question for you. I've asked this question to a few of the adamant Delaney supporters yet for some reason they don't answer it. If the Griz finish 6-6 or 7-5 and miss the playoffs this year (making it 2 out of 3 without playoffs) will you be in favor of a contract extension or will you want the Griz to find someone else for the HC job?

Potomac I don't want to jump into your discussion with Player, but since this last question seems addressed to everyone I thought I would give my thoughts.

First I don't know that I am an "adamant" Delaney supporter, but I am certainly not on the "time to clean house" side either. To answer your question if the Griz end 6-6 I think it is time for Delaney to retire. If they end 7-5 I would lean towards hoping he retires.

Here is the thing - I posted earlier he has basically the same record at this point in his Griz Head Coaching career as Baldwin did at this point in his tenure with EWU, and Baldwin turned out to be a pretty good coach. I guess for me the jury is still out on this staff, I am not willing to give up on them yet (especially the week after as 25 point win on homecoming), and I think the 1 thing that could truly destroy the "program" is coaching churn. It takes time for a coach to get his system in place, for players to buy into a program, etc, even with a lot of talent. Remember that there has already been a ton of turnover among the coordinators during Delaney's time.

This doesn't mean I agree with 100 percent of the decisions or play calls, or don't think there is room for improvement, or shake my head bewildered sometimes, but I just don't think it is the right time to talk about coaching changes.

 

[tnt]

.......If basketball ever overtakes football in popularity and has the same social gathering type element to it where big-wigs spend more time schmoozing with each other than paying attention to the game (there is some of that already) we'll end up seeing the same crap over there.

Its likley to happen, in case no-one has said it latley, the last set of "improvements" to the Adams center were all about catering to the schmoozers. I'm sure the plans for the multi-level parking garage with sky bridges to the field house still exist. They were selling it pretty hard not all that long ago................ If Montana pulls off the sweet sixteen thing they will likley will be among the first if not only state school with an open/rolling enrollment to do so. If MSU institutes the enrollment limits they are talking about for 2016, they may be the more likley. With the exception of UNLV a long time ago, no small school has EVER been a BB powerhouse that was NOT an academic powerhouse as well

 

[kevraid]

Montana is 18-11 with no playoff wins under current coaching. SO lets say the Griz go 6-1 losing to ewash... then lose 1st playoff game. That would make Montana 24-13 in 3 years with no playoff wins(I AM MAKING NO PREDICTIONS) but the thing is some fans would think 24-13 with no playoff wins is fine and make excuses for the 5-6 season... Some think that is horrible for this program. I think its below average... people will also think its ok to go 10-3 and 9-4 last 2 years with very few significant wins and no playoff wins. That seems very mediocre considering schedule.

 

[GrizLA]

Well, the biggest question I have about Mick Delaney is how in the hell a 70+ year old guy can whip up the energy, much less the desire, to coach a Div 1 program? I say this, having known him in high school. I see lots of younger guys who could not take it. Of course, I see a lot of them when I go to Chemo so my vision is a bit off. One thing is certain and that is things change. Sooner of later UM will have a new coach but I am beginning to see schools where coaching continuity counts for something...between Griz football and basketball, there must have been at least 10 coaches go through there....I hear a lot of the same complaints from U
SC fans about their new coach, Sarkissian....and I hear Alabama praising the fired USC coach...sports fans are a fickle lot.