Kaimin video, recruiting by UM and MSU

[bgbigdog]

If $2.1 million gets you 8-10 mailers and a barrage of emails and social media while $1.4 million gets you one horrendously late little flyer with a dearth of information, I'm not sure an additional $2 million would solve UM's problems. It ain't about the money....I'd LOVE to see where the $1.4 million is ACTUALLY going, because it sure as hell isn't going to actual recruiting. Looks to me like the recruiting office at UM operates about like Wounded Warriors Project....95% of the money is spent to maintain the administrative staff and about 5% is spent on ACTUAL recruiting.

Its systemic....based off this quote from the Missoulian article....its pretty obvious that the incompetence is found at every level within this school.

Faculty Senate Chair Bowman said her head was spinning with the news Crady's contract was not renewed, especially given recent reports of the budget cut that took place in enrollment and the uptick in freshman numbers nonetheless.



Really..your head is spinning??? He was innovative??? Sending emails has been around for quite some time, and we failed miserably to even do that.

Its literally never been easier to reach a wide range of people in the history of mankind....every day some moron with a twitter account becomes a millionaire because they can figure out how to monetize social media....but our guy we came up with from a national search cant figure out the very basics????

My impression is that people like Bowman are also part of the problem at UM, not necessarily recruiting or enrollment. Bowman doesn't seem to be on the "team", or isn't a team player.

My guess is that we will see Bowman quoted frequently, as the MIssoulian will go to Bowman frequently to get somewhat of a negative quote or reaction with anything that UM changes or Bodnar does. Think Bowman was part of the resume flap too.

I think Bodnar has been doing some recruiting stuff on his own. Heard he invited the "top 50" high school seniors to UM or his house for a reception or gathering. Or something like that.

Can any of them kick?

And there it is...

Welcome back from the bunker. Bastard. :lol:

 

[SACCAT66]

I've been a UM fan my entire life, but did not go to college. I chose to take the trade route in the US Air Force. Worked out great. If I had to go back and decide what school to attend, it would be MSU. Much better choices than a liberal arts school. Many people will disagree with me, but it's how I see it.

They are both 'liberal arts' schools. MSU's enrollment increases have been almost entirely in what one would call 'liberal arts'. They also have an engineering program which is why people wrongly categorize MSU as hard science STEM focused and UM as not. UM has better STM (Science Technology and Math) programs and faculty then MSU. They have better researchers, the top wildlife biology program in the world, their biological sciences graduate's acceptance rate into med school is twice the national average. They have a great pharmacy program, a business school and law school none of which MSU has. These programs directly lead good paying jobs, with real world applications.

The idea that UM doesn't teach technical or applied skills for real world jobs and MSU does is BS (Bachelor of Shit). They do all that and give you a 'liberal arts' education - which means they teach you to learn, write and think critically. This isn't a school filled with just philosophy majors and arts students (though they have those too and nothing wrong with that). What they have not had is an administration who knows how to market the school and battle these misconceptions! That is the difference between UM and MSU.

Interesting take. I am biased for UM as well but I dont think you can say we have better STEM faculty. I would be interested in data that backs this statement.

Can you find the data in how many freshman come to UM for pharmacy and wildlife biology, heck throw forestry in there too, combined compared to how many go to MSU for engineering alone? I dont know the answer and it would be interesting to know.

There are very few jobs in Wildlife Biology. Dont get me wrong I like the idea of a career in that field but the job market is limited. Pharmacy is an ok example as it probably does bring some freshman to campus but in truth this is an advanced degree as you apply after a couple of undergrad years and kids from other institutions compete for those positions and I dont think the classes in pharmacy are all that big. Law school is a postgraduate program and I dont believe it brings all that many new kids to campus especially freshman. I will agree the business school draws quite a few, at least it did 25 years ago. Almost everyone was a business major. Back then the feeling was that all of the people who didnt know what they wanted to do said they were a business major.

My buddy went to MSU for Chemical Biology, then went to UM for Pharmacy school....I also know a couple kids that went to MSU first, then UM for Law...MSU is building massive buildings for Business, Architecture, and Engineering degrees....And are marketing these like crazy...When was the last time a new building was built at UM for Academics?

 

[Ursa Major]

Its systemic....based off this quote from the Missoulian article....its pretty obvious that the incompetence is found at every level within this school.

Faculty Senate Chair Bowman said her head was spinning with the news Crady's contract was not renewed, especially given recent reports of the budget cut that took place in enrollment and the uptick in freshman numbers nonetheless.



Really..your head is spinning??? He was innovative??? Sending emails has been around for quite some time, and we failed miserably to even do that.

Its literally never been easier to reach a wide range of people in the history of mankind....every day some moron with a twitter account becomes a millionaire because they can figure out how to monetize social media....but our guy we came up with from a national search cant figure out the very basics????

My impression is that people like Bowman are also part of the problem at UM, not necessarily recruiting or enrollment. Bowman doesn't seem to be on the "team", or isn't a team player.

My guess is that we will see Bowman quoted frequently, as the MIssoulian will go to Bowman frequently to get somewhat of a negative quote or reaction with anything that UM changes or Bodnar does. Think Bowman was part of the resume flap too.

I think Bodnar has been doing some recruiting stuff on his own. Heard he invited the "top 50" high school seniors to UM or his house for a reception or gathering. Or something like that.

Can any of them kick?

And there it is...

Welcome back from the bunker. Bastard. :lol:

:thumb:

 

[AllWeatherFan]

My son Johnny* is a high school junior and is one of the most intelligent people on the planet. Why isn't U of M knocking on his door and kissing his ass like all the other schools are doing? Little Johnny is so upset that he is considering EWU. Maybe the little bastard isn't that smart after all.












*I really don't have a "Little Johnny."

 

[BadlandsGrizFan]

so what facts are you working with to make these profound statements(bqm) sounds to me like you read a couple lines and then are 'intuiting' a bunch of conclusions based on... nothing but your gut feeling. got any facts to back up that what you say fits this situation(bqm)

If $2.1 million gets you 8-10 mailers and a barrage of emails and social media while $1.4 million gets you one horrendously late little flyer with a dearth of information, I'm not sure an additional $2 million would solve UM's problems. It ain't about the money....I'd LOVE to see where the $1.4 million is ACTUALLY going, because it sure as hell isn't going to actual recruiting. Looks to me like the recruiting office at UM operates about like Wounded Warriors Project....95% of the money is spent to maintain the administrative staff and about 5% is spent on ACTUAL recruiting.

Its systemic....based off this quote from the Missoulian article....its pretty obvious that the incompetence is found at every level within this school.

Faculty Senate Chair Bowman said her head was spinning with the news Crady's contract was not renewed, especially given recent reports of the budget cut that took place in enrollment and the uptick in freshman numbers nonetheless.



Really..your head is spinning??? He was innovative??? Sending emails has been around for quite some time, and we failed miserably to even do that.

Its literally never been easier to reach a wide range of people in the history of mankind....every day some moron with a twitter account becomes a millionaire because they can figure out how to monetize social media....but our guy we came up with from a national search cant figure out the very basics????

dude, you are taking one kernel of information and conflating. that might make you feel good, but doesn't mean you actually know the whole situation.

That one thing I'm talking about is so easy to do..it obviously is a red flag pointing to much larger freaking issues....

For example, find a little liquid on the pavement under your vehicle...nothing to be alarmed about, but the further you look, you may just find your whole engines fucked....

 

[zootownrox]

They are both 'liberal arts' schools. MSU's enrollment increases have been almost entirely in what one would call 'liberal arts'. They also have an engineering program which is why people wrongly categorize MSU as hard science STEM focused and UM as not. UM has better STM (Science Technology and Math) programs and faculty then MSU. They have better researchers, the top wildlife biology program in the world, their biological sciences graduate's acceptance rate into med school is twice the national average. They have a great pharmacy program, a business school and law school none of which MSU has. These programs directly lead good paying jobs, with real world applications.

The idea that UM doesn't teach technical or applied skills for real world jobs and MSU does is BS (Bachelor of Shit). They do all that and give you a 'liberal arts' education - which means they teach you to learn, write and think critically. This isn't a school filled with just philosophy majors and arts students (though they have those too and nothing wrong with that). What they have not had is an administration who knows how to market the school and battle these misconceptions! That is the difference between UM and MSU.

Interesting take. I am biased for UM as well but I dont think you can say we have better STEM faculty. I would be interested in data that backs this statement.

Can you find the data in how many freshman come to UM for pharmacy and wildlife biology, heck throw forestry in there too, combined compared to how many go to MSU for engineering alone? I dont know the answer and it would be interesting to know.

There are very few jobs in Wildlife Biology. Dont get me wrong I like the idea of a career in that field but the job market is limited. Pharmacy is an ok example as it probably does bring some freshman to campus but in truth this is an advanced degree as you apply after a couple of undergrad years and kids from other institutions compete for those positions and I dont think the classes in pharmacy are all that big. Law school is a postgraduate program and I dont believe it brings all that many new kids to campus especially freshman. I will agree the business school draws quite a few, at least it did 25 years ago. Almost everyone was a business major. Back then the feeling was that all of the people who didnt know what they wanted to do said they were a business major.

The better researchers and STM (dropped the E for Engineering) comment comes partly from this recent recognition - http://missoulian.com/news/local/mo...cle_08de8b3d-bbf7-5a98-a016-449099d5637f.html partly from the UMs overall research funding numbers something like 110+ million a year, I don't have the exact number handy. While that is not a perfect measurement of professors quality it does indicate they are well respected and productive in their fields.

As for my other examples those are just off the top of my head, and the wildlife biology program specifically because having the best program in the world in anything is worth mentioning. Plus you would be surprised how many wildlife biology jobs there are - just think of the local, state and government agencies like FWS, not to mention non-profits and yes lots of private industries hire them for mitigation, consultation or planning.

As for your other comments I have no statistics on incoming freshman in programs, but it is worth noting a lot of freshman come in not knowing what major they want. The point is that UM has a lot to offer, even those who are more 'job' or 'career training' focused than academically focused and telling HS about your University is how you get them in the door. The marketing has been lacking.

 

[cmtgrizzly]

There is no doubt UM has failed to market what they have. I dont know where the blame lies, whether it is at a level above the VP that was not renewed by limiting his resources or him not maximizing his resources. I think UM has more to offer than is being publicized but I also would not be surprised at all if analysis shows that UM could benefit from adding/improving some programs and cutting/limiting others. Athletic success will also do a lot of the marketing work for is. Hopefully Hauck can help with that. TD already is

 

[wbtfg]

Does the owner/founder of this site still work in the admissions office as the technology/email guy?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

My son Johnny* is a high school junior and is one of the most intelligent people on the planet. Why isn't U of M knocking on his door and kissing his ass like all the other schools are doing? Little Johnny is so upset that he is considering EWU. Maybe the little bastard isn't that smart after all.












*I really don't have a "Little Johnny."

It sounds like Johnny* is a chip off the old block, since it is very apparent that you missed the entire point of the thread.

 

[GrizLA]

Interesting thread with several points of view that clearly demonstrate the problems UM has and floundering , that seems like what it is doing. This is not rocket science. The best friend I have had was considered the most prominent high school guidance counselor and was head of the National Assoc. I watched as he became more of student's advocate but played to the parent as well. He and the other highly sought after professionals all agreed, that mail, in most cases, is valuable but that too much will eventually end in the garbage. Emails can also be over done, as well. What worked was the university in question making efforts to invite counselors to the campus, to visit counselors, to actively recruit the high schools that would funnel students to appropriate colleges. I can attest that MSU had a very strong presence at Beverly Hills High, Flintridge La Canada other leading public schools in SoCal. I never once saw nor heard of UM doing that. The name of the game is outreach. Realtors know that, college administrators should know that. UM offers marketing courses, counseling, etc. So what good are the various Depts if they cannot see the problem and design a system to solve it?

 

[AllWeatherFan]

My son Johnny* is a high school junior and is one of the most intelligent people on the planet. Why isn't U of M knocking on his door and kissing his ass like all the other schools are doing? Little Johnny is so upset that he is considering EWU. Maybe the little bastard isn't that smart after all.












*I really don't have a "Little Johnny."

It sounds like Johnny* is a chip off the old block, since it is very apparent that you missed the entire point of the thread.

Yeah, no, I didn't. But thanks for the input.

 

[uofmman1122]

UM offers marketing courses, counseling, etc. So what good are the various Depts if they cannot see the problem and design a system to solve it?

At least up until recently, the previous administration wasn’t interested in the opinions or findings of their own Business Marketing department/faculty.

Hopefully that changes going forward.

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

I've been a UM fan my entire life, but did not go to college. I chose to take the trade route in the US Air Force. Worked out great. If I had to go back and decide what school to attend, it would be MSU. Much better choices than a liberal arts school. Many people will disagree with me, but it's how I see it.

They are both 'liberal arts' schools. MSU's enrollment increases have been almost entirely in what one would call 'liberal arts'. They also have an engineering program which is why people wrongly categorize MSU as hard science STEM focused and UM as not. UM has better STM (Science Technology and Math) programs and faculty then MSU. They have better researchers, the top wildlife biology program in the world, their biological sciences graduate's acceptance rate into med school is twice the national average. They have a great pharmacy program, a business school and law school none of which MSU has. These programs directly lead good paying jobs, with real world applications.

The idea that UM doesn't teach technical or applied skills for real world jobs and MSU does is BS (Bachelor of Shit). They do all that and give you a 'liberal arts' education - which means they teach you to learn, write and think critically. This isn't a school filled with just philosophy majors and arts students (though they have those too and nothing wrong with that). What they have not had is an administration who knows how to market the school and battle these misconceptions! That is the difference between UM and MSU.

Interesting take. I am biased for UM as well but I dont think you can say we have better STEM faculty. I would be interested in data that backs this statement.

Can you find the data in how many freshman come to UM for pharmacy and wildlife biology, heck throw forestry in there too, combined compared to how many go to MSU for engineering alone? I dont know the answer and it would be interesting to know.

There are very few jobs in Wildlife Biology. Dont get me wrong I like the idea of a career in that field but the job market is limited. Pharmacy is an ok example as it probably does bring some freshman to campus but in truth this is an advanced degree as you apply after a couple of undergrad years and kids from other institutions compete for those positions and I dont think the classes in pharmacy are all that big. Law school is a postgraduate program and I dont believe it brings all that many new kids to campus especially freshman. I will agree the business school draws quite a few, at least it did 25 years ago. Almost everyone was a business major. Back then the feeling was that all of the people who didnt know what they wanted to do said they were a business major.

My buddy went to MSU for Chemical Biology, then went to UM for Pharmacy school....I also know a couple kids that went to MSU first, then UM for Law...MSU is building massive buildings for Business, Architecture, and Engineering degrees....And are marketing these like crazy...When was the last time a new building was built at UM for Academics?

There is now construction on Mrs. Washington's building.

My daughter who has ink flowing through her veins chose this school rather than keep within her family tradition and go to a slightly higher profile school as her relatives desired.

I know of several nonresident students who chose to go here rather than many other schools because of geology? That's very STEM in nature and a great option.

 

[Mich Griz]

It gets worse during the students on campus visit. I have taken several of my nieces and nephews on visits to both schools. I tried to remain neutral during the visits and never mentioned my background. This is what happens at the U of M: You find your way to the designated meeting place sometimes the Lodge sometimes the UC. After a group of about 20 gathers. A person comes out and says welcome watch this short video. It's always a nice production. Then that person says "follow me we'll go for a tour".

So off we go, following this person who is walking backwards yelling at us so all the stragglers can hear him. It's impossible to not only hear him but to ask him questions. If someone did ask a question and you were behind them you couldn't hear the question and barely the answer. After 30 min it was over. So Long. U of M.... Go There!

At MSU we made our way to the admissions office. Outside the door there was a white board "Saying Welcome" with my relatives name and hometown written on it. I don't know if the staff had visited my nieces FB page or what but when she walked in they noticed her immediately and said you must be So and So welcome. I was wondering how they knew who she was. First they had an individual meeting with her and told her what scholarships she qualified for. Basically every kid qualifies for some scholarship. It's like saying "It's on Sale" Every school does it. Kids like to say they get a scholarship. After that they said a student would take us on a tour of recreational facilities. This student takes us to all the rec stuff, brags about the Bobcats sport teams and after a half an hour we are back at admissions. There we meet up with several other small groups but the total was around 10. We were now going on a tour of the rest of campus including dorms. They gave us headset that connected to the tour guide so he didn't have to yell or walk backwards. After that they gave us a lunch pass so we could check out their food circus.

Which school would impress you?

Argh I enjoy your insites. I don't always agree but you have interesting views of things. Glad you're back

 

[hokeyfine]

I've been a UM fan my entire life, but did not go to college. I chose to take the trade route in the US Air Force. Worked out great. If I had to go back and decide what school to attend, it would be MSU. Much better choices than a liberal arts school. Many people will disagree with me, but it's how I see it.

They are both 'liberal arts' schools. MSU's enrollment increases have been almost entirely in what one would call 'liberal arts'. They also have an engineering program which is why people wrongly categorize MSU as hard science STEM focused and UM as not. UM has better STM (Science Technology and Math) programs and faculty then MSU. They have better researchers, the top wildlife biology program in the world, their biological sciences graduate's acceptance rate into med school is twice the national average. They have a great pharmacy program, a business school and law school none of which MSU has. These programs directly lead good paying jobs, with real world applications.

The idea that UM doesn't teach technical or applied skills for real world jobs and MSU does is BS (Bachelor of Shit). They do all that and give you a 'liberal arts' education - which means they teach you to learn, write and think critically. This isn't a school filled with just philosophy majors and arts students (though they have those too and nothing wrong with that). What they have not had is an administration who knows how to market the school and battle these misconceptions! That is the difference between UM and MSU.

i would strongly disagree with this statement. um has a few pockets of good researchers, but overall the comparable STM programs are very weak.

 

[cclarkblues]

It gets worse during the students on campus visit. I have taken several of my nieces and nephews on visits to both schools. I tried to remain neutral during the visits and never mentioned my background. This is what happens at the U of M: You find your way to the designated meeting place sometimes the Lodge sometimes the UC. After a group of about 20 gathers. A person comes out and says welcome watch this short video. It's always a nice production. Then that person says "follow me we'll go for a tour".

So off we go, following this person who is walking backwards yelling at us so all the stragglers can hear him. It's impossible to not only hear him but to ask him questions. If someone did ask a question and you were behind them you couldn't hear the question and barely the answer. After 30 min it was over. So Long. U of M.... Go There!

At MSU we made our way to the admissions office. Outside the door there was a white board "Saying Welcome" with my relatives name and hometown written on it. I don't know if the staff had visited my nieces FB page or what but when she walked in they noticed her immediately and said you must be So and So welcome. I was wondering how they knew who she was. First they had an individual meeting with her and told her what scholarships she qualified for. Basically every kid qualifies for some scholarship. It's like saying "It's on Sale" Every school does it. Kids like to say they get a scholarship. After that they said a student would take us on a tour of recreational facilities. This student takes us to all the rec stuff, brags about the Bobcats sport teams and after a half an hour we are back at admissions. There we meet up with several other small groups but the total was around 10. We were now going on a tour of the rest of campus including dorms. They gave us headset that connected to the tour guide so he didn't have to yell or walk backwards. After that they gave us a lunch pass so we could check out their food circus.

Which school would impress you?

Argh I enjoy your insites. I don't always agree but you have interesting views of things. Glad you're back

Our visit to MSU last year was just like your description of your visit to UM except longer, and we got to visit a dorm room.

 

[SACCAT66]

I've been a UM fan my entire life, but did not go to college. I chose to take the trade route in the US Air Force. Worked out great. If I had to go back and decide what school to attend, it would be MSU. Much better choices than a liberal arts school. Many people will disagree with me, but it's how I see it.

They are both 'liberal arts' schools. MSU's enrollment increases have been almost entirely in what one would call 'liberal arts'. They also have an engineering program which is why people wrongly categorize MSU as hard science STEM focused and UM as not. UM has better STM (Science Technology and Math) programs and faculty then MSU. They have better researchers, the top wildlife biology program in the world, their biological sciences graduate's acceptance rate into med school is twice the national average. They have a great pharmacy program, a business school and law school none of which MSU has. These programs directly lead good paying jobs, with real world applications.

The idea that UM doesn't teach technical or applied skills for real world jobs and MSU does is BS (Bachelor of Shit). They do all that and give you a 'liberal arts' education - which means they teach you to learn, write and think critically. This isn't a school filled with just philosophy majors and arts students (though they have those too and nothing wrong with that). What they have not had is an administration who knows how to market the school and battle these misconceptions! That is the difference between UM and MSU.

i would strongly disagree with this statement. um has a few pockets of good researchers, but overall the comparable STM programs are very weak.

I can't find anywhere that says UM (the one in Missoula) has the top wildlife biology program in the world...The 2017 lists I saw don't even have you in the top 10...I am not saying you don't, just that I don't see where you are coming up with your facts....there are two lists that show UM (the one in Michigan) as a top 3 for it...

EDIT!!!! Was sent the article from 2016....So you are correct on that...
https://news.umt.edu/2016/09/091216wild.php

 

[Yukon]

At MSU we made our way to the admissions office. Outside the door there was a white board "Saying Welcome" with my relatives name and hometown written on it. I don't know if the staff had visited my nieces FB page or what but when she walked in they noticed her immediately and said you must be So and So welcome. I was wondering how they knew who she was.

Stalking always works.

 

[Blgs Griz Fan]

Received my email from MAJ Bodnar. Very personal:"Dear Campus Community:" Anyway, reconfiguring the vice president for admissions and financial aid position is to be commended!

I would encourage those of you with more than a few connections to help this school steal a large portion of Rocky's financial aid office. It is something when a parent can write a smaller check for tuition and housing for a student attending Rocky than a student attending the U of M. Very large disconnect for some reason here.

Rocky is the "darling" of the Billings community and does not want for funds. It is socially desirable for the local elites to support RMC.

 

[Blgs Griz Fan]

My son is a junior in high school this year and is looking at several colleges. He has been receiving lots of brochures and letters from numerous colleges, including MSU, NDSU, Carroll, Concordia, Pacific Lutheran, and many others. He has not received a SINGLE thing from U of M. It is interesting to see how receiving something from a college gets him excited. He immediately goes on-line and researches the college to see what they offer. He is a true Griz fan and is quite disappointed that he hasn't received anything from them. At this point, I would say that U of M is very low on his list of colleges because of it. Both his mom and I are U of M alum and to say that we are disappointed that he has not received ANYTHING from them is an understatement.

A friends son is a senior at Billings Central. He is a 4.0 student, varsity letter in football, completing a number of advance placement courses. He will be entering as a pre med student. He has been recruited by numerous Ivy League schools as well as MSU. MSU has laready offered a scholarship but it is not large enough.
To date he has not received anything from U Of MT. Why?