Kaimin video, recruiting by UM and MSU

[HookedonGriz]

I would highly recommend that some of you with these first gand experiences email them directly to President Bodnar. He needs to be aware of the issues so he can fix it.

 

[bgbigdog]

My son is a junior in high school this year and is looking at several colleges. He has been receiving lots of brochures and letters from numerous colleges, including MSU, NDSU, Carroll, Concordia, Pacific Lutheran, and many others. He has not received a SINGLE thing from U of M. It is interesting to see how receiving something from a college gets him excited. He immediately goes on-line and researches the college to see what they offer. He is a true Griz fan and is quite disappointed that he hasn't received anything from them. At this point, I would say that U of M is very low on his list of colleges because of it. Both his mom and I are U of M alum and to say that we are disappointed that he has not received ANYTHING from them is an understatement.

A friends son is a senior at Billings Central. He is a 4.0 student, varsity letter in football, completing a number of advance placement courses. He will be entering as a pre med student. He has been recruited by numerous Ivy League schools as well as MSU. MSU has laready offered a scholarship but it is not large enough.
To date he has not received anything from U Of MT. Why?

Guys... this is all the fault of the incompetent direct-marketing partners the folks in charge of doing the recruiting hired. If they could have only gotten that bunch that works for state ag...

I’m sure if there were effective ways to identify and poll kids & parents looking @ colleges in the state and those surrounding Montana, the results would be much the same. I’m wondering if Seth is looking to recoup the bogus bonus paid to last guy? And if I were a trustee or administrator who authorized the payment, I’d get my head out of it. You clearly have no idea what’s going on in the rest of the world.

 

[reinell30]

Have you all ever looked at MSU Bobcat football program? It has everything advertised in color, incentives for their school, all the players names, numbers and pictures etc, etc... The Bobcat program put's UM's to shame. Just a small example of how they are out advertising UM.
My good friend in Laurel told me of a Girl from Billings Central who really wants to attend UM but has never heard a word from them. Offers form MSU, Arizona, Arizona state, Oregon and several others.
The marketing department at UM needs new blood running it I believe.

 

[horribilisfan8184]

In summary, we seem to have no one in recruiting actually looking for Montana candidates, and we respond poorly and late to those that contact UM with grossly inferior methods and materials.

WTF/ Does UM have a deep state at the recruiting office stacked with MSU graduates. I think we need an independent counsel. Isn't Van Valkenberg available?

 

[Counter Assault]

They are both 'liberal arts' schools. MSU's enrollment increases have been almost entirely in what one would call 'liberal arts'. They also have an engineering program which is why people wrongly categorize MSU as hard science STEM focused and UM as not. UM has better STM (Science Technology and Math) programs and faculty then MSU. They have better researchers, the top wildlife biology program in the world, their biological sciences graduate's acceptance rate into med school is twice the national average. They have a great pharmacy program, a business school and law school none of which MSU has. These programs directly lead good paying jobs, with real world applications.

The idea that UM doesn't teach technical or applied skills for real world jobs and MSU does is BS (Bachelor of Shit). They do all that and give you a 'liberal arts' education - which means they teach you to learn, write and think critically. This isn't a school filled with just philosophy majors and arts students (though they have those too and nothing wrong with that). What they have not had is an administration who knows how to market the school and battle these misconceptions! That is the difference between UM and MSU.

Zoo, your views are on the opposite end of reality. Every area BUT Arts and Architecture at MSU has grown. Engineering has led MSU's traditional campus enrollment gains in both percentage and absolute terms. It is also wrong to say they have STEM categorized incorrectly. Solid enrollment gains have been seen in chemistry/Earth Sciences/Physics and well as numerous other science and technology related fields biology, biochemistry, neuroscience, environmental science, plant science, animal science, etc etc. MSU Arts and Architecture School (THE LIBERAL STUFF) ACTUALLY SHRUNK 16% DURING THIS PERIOD.

As I have said before, UM has numerous useful degrees like business, law, biology, forestry and sciences. However, the mix of performing arts, art, visual arts, political science, anthropology and numerous other liberal arts degrees is meaningfully higher at UM, without the engineering, agriculture, science, chemistry and biology strength that MSU has.

What exacerbates UM's problem is the degree cost versus the degree income upon graduation. You simply cannot afford the debt on $70-80K worth of undergrad debt making $32,000 per year. That is why degrees in sciences, engineering and nursing are more appealing, because the initial income is 50-100% higher than those of liberal arts areas. This is a national problem. Universities have raised prices every year to support higher cost of living and inflation adjustments. Debt levels have followed and it has priced less useful degrees out of the market.

While it would be painful, one idea Bodner could push is cutting costs everywhere he possibly can (like GUT IT). Cut tuition prices to make these degrees more appealing (like by 30%). Sell the school on affordability. Then, grow off these levels by adding more useful degree areas with higher graduating wage rates. Strayer Education did all this... if you persist through three years of undergrad, you get the fourth year free. Enrollment has rebounded and the increase in student persistence actually helps the cost of acquiring new students because you don't need to fill the new student enrollment as quickly as when kids drop out.

MSU Enrollment by Degree Fall 2012 - Fall 2017
Agriculture 1,000 - 1,268, 26%
Arts and Architecture 1,348 - 1,132, -16%
Business 1,197 - 1,522, 19%
Education 1,805 - 1821, .8%
Engineering 2,768 - 3,930, 41%!!!
Letters and Science 3,549 - 4,055, 14%
Nursing 967 - 1,116, 15%
Gallatin College 277 - 634, 128% (associate programs)

 

[cmtgrizzly]

They are both 'liberal arts' schools. MSU's enrollment increases have been almost entirely in what one would call 'liberal arts'. They also have an engineering program which is why people wrongly categorize MSU as hard science STEM focused and UM as not. UM has better STM (Science Technology and Math) programs and faculty then MSU. They have better researchers, the top wildlife biology program in the world, their biological sciences graduate's acceptance rate into med school is twice the national average. They have a great pharmacy program, a business school and law school none of which MSU has. These programs directly lead good paying jobs, with real world applications.

The idea that UM doesn't teach technical or applied skills for real world jobs and MSU does is BS (Bachelor of Shit). They do all that and give you a 'liberal arts' education - which means they teach you to learn, write and think critically. This isn't a school filled with just philosophy majors and arts students (though they have those too and nothing wrong with that). What they have not had is an administration who knows how to market the school and battle these misconceptions! That is the difference between UM and MSU.

Zoo, your views are on the opposite end of reality. Every area BUT Arts and Architecture at MSU has grown. Engineering has led MSU's traditional campus enrollment gains in both percentage and absolute terms. It is also wrong to say they have STEM categorized incorrectly. Solid enrollment gains have been seen in chemistry/Earth Sciences/Physics and well as numerous other science and technology related fields biology, biochemistry, neuroscience, environmental science, plant science, animal science, etc etc. MSU Arts and Architecture School (THE LIBERAL STUFF) ACTUALLY SHRUNK 16% DURING THIS PERIOD.

As I have said before, UM has numerous useful degrees like business, law, biology, forestry and sciences. However, the mix of performing arts, art, visual arts, political science, anthropology and numerous other liberal arts degrees is meaningfully higher at UM, without the engineering, agriculture, science, chemistry and biology strength that MSU has.

What exacerbates UM's problem is the degree cost versus the degree income upon graduation. You simply cannot afford the debt on $70-80K worth of undergrad debt making $32,000 per year. That is why degrees in sciences, engineering and nursing are more appealing, because the initial income is 50-100% higher than those of liberal arts areas. This is a national problem. Universities have raised prices every year to support higher cost of living and inflation adjustments. Debt levels have followed and it has priced less useful degrees out of the market.

While it would be painful, one idea Bodner could push is cutting costs everywhere he possibly can (like GUT IT). Cut tuition prices to make these degrees more appealing (like by 30%). Sell the school on affordability. Then, grow off these levels by adding more useful degree areas with higher graduating wage rates. Strayer Education did all this... if you persist through three years of undergrad, you get the fourth year free. Enrollment has rebounded and the increase in student persistence actually helps the cost of acquiring new students because you don't need to fill the new student enrollment as quickly as when kids drop out.

MSU Enrollment by Degree Fall 2012 - Fall 2017
Agriculture 1,000 - 1,268, 26%
Arts and Architecture 1,348 - 1,132, -16%
Business 1,197 - 1,522, 19%
Education 1,805 - 1821, .8%
Engineering 2,768 - 3,930, 41%!!!
Letters and Science 3,549 - 4,055, 14%
Nursing 967 - 1,116, 15%
Gallatin College 277 - 634, 128% (associate programs)

Unfortunately my impression aligns with this post. Again I dont have numbers for some of the UM enrollment items I mentioned before but I am not at all surprised by the numbers presented in this post (thanks counterassault for posting them). I knew the engineering numbers would be amazingly high.

We need to promote the programs at UM that will draw students. Students want to know that if they invest in a degree that it will pay for itself down the road. Identify all of those programs, obtain hard numbers to support them and market those programs to show prospective students we have alot of practical programs to offer. Develop more programs that fit practical application and income potential for the future job market and promote them. Shed programs that are losing relevance as I dont think UM is in a financial position to support them.

Support athletics and realize it is a really important part of a healthy, successful public university.

 

[cclarkblues]

Received my email from MAJ Bodnar. Very personal:"Dear Campus Community:" Anyway, reconfiguring the vice president for admissions and financial aid position is to be commended!

I would encourage those of you with more than a few connections to help this school steal a large portion of Rocky's financial aid office. It is something when a parent can write a smaller check for tuition and housing for a student attending Rocky than a student attending the U of M. Very large disconnect for some reason here.

Rocky is the "darling" of the Billings community and does not want for funds. It is socially desirable for the local elites to support RMC.

Rocky has had to sell off a huge amount of it's land through the years just to keep it's doors open. I don't know if it's socially desirable or not. My family has been affiliated with the school since 1959 and has it's own scholarship fund there. As far as straight tuition costs, without any scholarships taken into account, the check I would write to RMC for my daughter would be far more than the check I write to MSU for my son.

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

My son is a junior in high school this year and is looking at several colleges. He has been receiving lots of brochures and letters from numerous colleges, including MSU, NDSU, Carroll, Concordia, Pacific Lutheran, and many others. He has not received a SINGLE thing from U of M. It is interesting to see how receiving something from a college gets him excited. He immediately goes on-line and researches the college to see what they offer. He is a true Griz fan and is quite disappointed that he hasn't received anything from them. At this point, I would say that U of M is very low on his list of colleges because of it. Both his mom and I are U of M alum and to say that we are disappointed that he has not received ANYTHING from them is an understatement.

A friends son is a senior at Billings Central. He is a 4.0 student, varsity letter in football, completing a number of advance placement courses. He will be entering as a pre med student. He has been recruited by numerous Ivy League schools as well as MSU. MSU has laready offered a scholarship but it is not large enough.
To date he has not received anything from U Of MT. Why?

Well, here they have to go through their "process." It seems at times the students are a major inconvenience to those in admissions, financial aid, and based upon the experiences of a fairly large number of kids who attended classes last fall and this spring, there are negative feelings coming from the instructors. A few of my kids high school classmates are transferring to MSU this summer because of the differences in how they see their friends treated by their faculty when they go visit them at MSU compared to here.

I know freshmen can tend to be a bit dramatic but maybe there is some relevance toward all of this negative atmosphere here? Certainly financial aid could be a little more helpful or are the parents of the kids going to school here simply in a much better place financially than those with kids attending school at MSU?

 

[Yukon]

It's just a simple business plan; reduce your customer base to a manageable level.

 

[MissoulaMarinerFan]

It's just a simple business plan; reduce your customer base to a manageable level.

 

[Yukon]

It's just a simple business plan; reduce your customer base to a manageable level.

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

It's just a simple business plan; reduce your customer base to a manageable level.

:lol:

Pretty much sums up the various offices on campus...and that begs the question: why aren't the moderators of this site and a few of the frequent posters here working for this school in much more visible areas? It is my experience in growth areas good people do not apply. They are recruited and "stolen" from other businesses, schools and even governmental agencies.

I still have a difficult time watching the long drawn out dog and pony show just to hire a coach or member of the faculty for that matter...

 

[Counter Assault]

Wow, I just read this gem from the Kaimin too... Bodner should give this place the axe immediately. $1M cumulative losses - that's absurd. I had no idea the Iron Griz even existed. What a waste of student food dollars.

http://www.montanakaimin.com/featur...cle_8f3ea7be-0adc-11e8-b13d-2fae870b4f6c.html

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

Wow, I just read this gem from the Kaimin too... Bodner should give this place the axe immediately. $1M cumulative losses - that's absurd. I had no idea the Iron Griz even existed. What a waste of student food dollars.

http://www.montanakaimin.com/featur...cle_8f3ea7be-0adc-11e8-b13d-2fae870b4f6c.html

And here is THE problem. This has the feel of a governmental bureaucratic nightmare encumbered by its own layer after layer of red tape. Nobody can make a decision without convening some obscure committee of malcontents whining and sniveling about a lack of justice or other such nonsense.

It is now being run by those same individuals who took over the Mustang Ranch in Nevada. A governmental agency went broke running a whore house and seeling booze! This prior leadership cadre did that too! Dang, these kids in the newspaper are good! Nobody in the old power structure could make a decision. The hardest thing to teach a second lieutenant is to make a decision...I like to think it's going to get fixed really fast in some departments.

 

[bgbigdog]

Wow, I just read this gem from the Kaimin too... Bodner should give this place the axe immediately. $1M cumulative losses - that's absurd. I had no idea the Iron Griz even existed. What a waste of student food dollars.

http://www.montanakaimin.com/featur...cle_8f3ea7be-0adc-11e8-b13d-2fae870b4f6c.html

Howard said it was a mystery to him and his team why more students don’t come to the Iron Griz, characterizing it as “a puzzle we can’t crack” during an interview at the restaurant in November.

Really? I know I had that kind of change in my pockets when I was going to college - not. Got ourselves another rocket scientist here. Wow. The Kaimin is on fire. What’s next?

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

Wow, I just read this gem from the Kaimin too... Bodner should give this place the axe immediately. $1M cumulative losses - that's absurd. I had no idea the Iron Griz even existed. What a waste of student food dollars.

http://www.montanakaimin.com/featur...cle_8f3ea7be-0adc-11e8-b13d-2fae870b4f6c.html

Howard said it was a mystery to him and his team why more students don’t come to the Iron Griz, characterizing it as “a puzzle we can’t crack” during an interview at the restaurant in November.

Really? I know I had that kind of change in my pockets when I was going to college - not. Got ourselves another rocket scientist here. Wow. The Kaimin is on fire. What’s next?

Want to bet some of them start researching a number of dissertations and published works by some of their favorite professors? :lol:

 

[grizturd]

Ate there once and the food was just meh. Certainly didn’t match the price.
I find some of Iron Griz manager Camp Howard’s comments odd- “I think giving students the experience of waiting at a full-service restaurant is important. They’re getting real life training.” “Students are learning to wait tables, a skill many will end up using after college.” So I guess he is saying their college degree is worthless. Maybe he could help his budget by offering a course in Waiteressing 101.

 

[GrizLA]

I would highly recommend that some of you with these first gand experiences email them directly to President Bodnar. He needs to be aware of the issues so he can fix it.

Not to be contrary but what did he do for GE?

 

[GrizLA]

All of these kids mentioned here are "waiting" for UM to contact them? hmmm, are they really ready for college? If you live in Montana, you would have to be very much an idiot if you do not know how to find out if there is a University in the state. The kids can contact the university. I once read applications for UCLA and every single one of the thousands knew how to reach the school. Many were not in the USA. However, I read this week, that the giant win for UMBC in the NCAA tournament was worth over $115 million if publicity. Let UM be in the FCS playoffs a couple of games and let DeCuire take the basketball team to the level he is taking them and I bet the applications increase. USC (the southeastern one) already researched it and found tv exposure in tournaments and bowls results in increased applications.
Also, for the MSU grad that says UM liberal arts, like fine arts, music, ceramics and applied arts are not something worth while I can assure you, financially, many UM grads in the fine arts, music, and art are doing quite well and have done so over the years. In fact, I have never had anyone in my various travels, ask me about the engineering school at MSU while many have asked about UM grads and the programs that turn them out. From Emmy winner, to Oscars, and Music awards, Pulitzers, and Rhodes Scholars UM can hold its own high ground. I think, when it comes to STEM education that is just the latest in a long series of "what's hot" today. I think more people who are serious about engineering degrees would choose Montana Tech. And, I think the what is really important are the numbers of grads in the fields, as opposed to just attending.

 

[SoldierGriz]

All of these kids mentioned here are "waiting" for UM to contact them? hmmm, are they really ready for college? If you live in Montana, you would have to be very much an idiot if you do not know how to find out if there is a University in the state. The kids can contact the university. I once read applications for UCLA and every single one of the thousands knew how to reach the school. Many were not in the USA. However, I read this week, that the giant win for UMBC in the NCAA tournament was worth over $115 million if publicity. Let UM be in the FCS playoffs a couple of games and let DeCuire take the basketball team to the level he is taking them and I bet the applications increase. USC (the southeastern one) already researched it and found tv exposure in tournaments and bowls results in increased applications.
Also, for the MSU grad that says UM liberal arts, like fine arts, music, ceramics and applied arts are not something worth while I can assure you, financially, many UM grads in the fine arts, music, and art are doing quite well and have done so over the years. In fact, I have never had anyone in my various travels, ask me about the engineering school at MSU while many have asked about UM grads and the programs that turn them out. From Emmy winner, to Oscars, and Music awards, Pulitzers, and Rhodes Scholars UM can hold its own high ground. I think, when it comes to STEM education that is just the latest in a long series of "what's hot" today. I think more people who are serious about engineering degrees would choose Montana Tech. And, I think the what is really important are the numbers of grads in the fields, as opposed to just attending.

Graduating seniors are ready for college and hundreds of thousands of them will enter in the fall.

They are bombarded with marketing materials in various forms by dozens of colleges...without inquiry. When they take the ACT or SAT they indicate their educational preferences, and administering companies sell that info to generate marketing mailing lists for universities.

Thousand and thousands of those kids check engineering. Some select business. Few select ceramics.

Right now, UM is on the outside looking in. Bondar can fix it.